In post 2344, Elscouta wrote:What make you so confident? Have you already been so confident before? Have you already been so confident and failed?
Trust me, confidence is a null tell for Mastin. In mini 1377 he made wall after wall about FancyPants and how he was like 100% guaranteed scum and then after FP flipped VT, mastin did not even mention anything about how wrong he was. It made me think he was scum at the time. What makes Mastin so confident? Dunno, but at least I can answer the 2nd Q for you
What changed your mind on pidgey, exactly?
I'd have prefered Mastin answer the question himself. Regarding pidgey, part of my attack on him was on style. However, the fact he maintained his style despite the attack, added to some things That-Can-Not-Be-Referenced makes me believe it's just his normal style.
So it would appear I was the one the messenger chose to receive a message.
Reading stuff now, but should announce this:
Mod: V/LA until next week.
Completely forgot that this was Thanksgiving week, which means limited to no access Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday (obv) and maybe Friday with an obvious Saturday and Sunday.
I'll see what I can do, but I know for a fact that Wednesday and Thursday are a no-go (as in, zero possibility of access) days at a minimum. Quite the inconvenience, but anyway,
In post 2331, MagnaofIllusion wrote:I think Kise's input is pretty solid and augments everything I said yesterday.
Note that MoI has completely forgotten overnight that he locked into a 1V1 with me.
And note that he's continued not to claim, even after the night's over.
I'm not so much into the insulting thing. I think he made himself rather obvious as scum the way he played. He discredited people (benmage, KK) for no reason, based on stuff they had done. He "cleverly" inserted this at points where saying such a thing might have an effect. And I guess you could call it OMGUS, but the way he argued towards me was decidedly scummy. I know how I used to play scum, and picking apart every post of a person and saying something scummy about each sentence does tend to get someone lynched in time. It's just not something a town would ever do, because it's completely unbelievable that scum would show themselves with every single sentence they make.
Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.
Since I like asking people for links I’m going to ask you for your AngryP case …
Can you link me to it?
Also since you were so certain before Tammy’s flip that she had to be a Serial Killer care to explain why I shouldn’t be considering that a sign that you know this is Singleball due to role PM reasons?
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@Nero
– since you neighborized the Serial Killer N1 is it fair to say her QT contributions made you think she was Town since you weren’t voting for her despite the Guilty from Ben?
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Yates wrote:I don't really know where to go from here. Yesterday and last night panned out as my worst case scenario.
Lynching a Serial Killer was part of your worst case scenario?
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Zab wrote: He was just very happy about having called AV scum so early. That's why I didn't push it when nobody picked up that thread.
So you thought it was a good point about Nero being possible scum but since no-one else ran with it you just dropped it?
Zab wrote: I don't know if most/all, but there's very strong scum motivation for wanting Tammy dead.
So there is no strong Town motivation to want scum dead?
Mykonian hangs as scum today and Zab needs to follow shortly for Post 2338. Painful how scummy that post is.
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Eloscuta wrote: I still would be up for a snifit or Ascomist lynch, but i'm interesting in seeing the MoI vs mastin fight.
Will also support a wagon on this FTR.
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pidgey wrote: Fffffffffffff bengame died.
Hey pidgey you have any scum games you can link me to? Thanks!
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AngryP wrote: Not true. He was saying the same thing I was. (If tammy, is town she would have shot Benmage -> she is scum). Hes still scum, but just saying.
Why aren’t you voting Scumykonian then?
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Mastin wrote: Note that MoI has completely forgotten overnight that he locked into a 1V1 with me.
Also, this is something I thought of over the weekend as a possibility.
Spoiler: Setup spec
I'm less than certain of it, but it would kinda make a weird sort of sense.
I still think that this game is single-faction, but it's
possible
that it's multiscum, and that both scum factions thought Tammy was a member of the opposite scum faction, hence their wagon on her. If that were true, AV-Aco-MoI would be one scumteam, obviously, but the other wouldn't be so clear-cut. Kise would be on it, but if multiscum, snifit wouldn't be a partner. WC would likely be scum, but the third member would be a little more ambiguous. Probably not myk, but possibly one of the birds.
It'd make some sort of strange sense, with people asking why others think it's single-faction, when they (possibly) know it's multiscum, and would as mentioned above help explain the speculation about Tammy being day-killing scum.
That said, again, the above is only my speculation for if the game's multi-scum. Since it's probably not, I'm going to continue as if it weren't.
Kise and Aco have my attention besides MoI.
Your behavior during last day seemed to look like you where way above this bar. What make you so confident? Have you already been so confident before? Have you already been so confident and failed?
What makes me so confident? Experience. I'd be the first to admit that my scumhunting is
far
from perfect; I
have
made mistakes before. But since my return, I've been right on the money. Scum have been pulling stunts which allow them to escape unnoticed that I pick up on. It takes me a while to find them (anywhere from half to a full game phase on average), but once I do, things just click into place. The cases write themselves, and all I have to do is bring them to the light. There's a reason scum have been killing me almost every game, and considering killing me in those games where they don't. Because--while my reads may not start strong--I am
very
good at picking up on patterns, on picking up on "what are the scum doing this game?" and getting into the scum mind-set.
The scum mind-set this game was that Tammy was a threat, which they needed eliminated. They needed to push it through, to muddy the waters, to throw up a storm, hammering in the same redundant arguments for why Tammy was the right lynch. (And if multiscum, believed they were legitimately hunting opposite scumteam.) They literally had no choice but to have her dead, and it quite frankly
needed
to be by lynch. Double-day with power roles added into the mix is gamebreakingly powerful, and no matter what they say to the contrary, Tammy would have given us that power. They needed to raise arguments which appeared to be reasonable, they needed to gather allies (such as the birds and of course Benmage), and (for the most part) they needed to avoid pointing attention to themselves, which is exactly the tactics the members of the Tammy wagon used.
Contrary to what AP said, I wasn't
that
confident on FP. I made myself appear that way, in order to push the lynch through, but I did my research on FP, found similarities in his play during 1377 to town play, but ultimately came up inconclusive. FP was more like 60-80% scum in my mind, lynched more for information than for anything else, as I had some great interactive tells if FP were scum and some decent leads if FP were town. And also contrary to what AP said, I did show doubt in my reads the next day, as I rapid-fire posted to try and re-establish my reads. (In other words, the doubt was there, it was just subtle. Exaggerating doubt to make it obvious is a scumtell from me, since I don't do that as town.)
In post 2370, mastin2 wrote:They literally had no choice but to have her dead, and it quite frankly
needed
to be by lynch.
The assumptions you have here lead to me being 100% confirmed town in your eyes. Do you want to walk this back or can we lynch you now?
Except, they don't. I've already explained in crystal-clear detail the difference between you and Tammy. Khan's already explained in great detail the difference between you and Tammy. Everyone off the Tammy wagon has already explained the difference between you and Tammy.
The points are there, in our isos. We lay out in detail why the scum needed her dead yesterday.
And we also lay out in detail why you're, in contrast, a very good lynch.
And let's assume, just for a second, that you're hypothetically town.
The scum can endgame a PGO. They don't need the PGO killed, least of all in the hands of a player who if town is a complete moron. They don't even need the PGO lynched, since again, the PGO presents no threat to them. As long as they leave the PGO untouched, there's nothing about the PGO which is a threat. The PGO only helps them, via town roles doubting the PGO claim and targeting the PGO, and/or the town doubting the PGO claim and pushing it through. There's pretty much zero scum motive to push for a lynch on the PGO, since again, the PGO once it's known to be a PGO is completely and totally harmless to them.
It's the exact opposite of Tammy. During the day, I imagine the scum
can't
endgame her, because she can still shoot. Maybe during the night, they could, especially since she wasn't bulletproof. They do need her killed, especially since she is a competent player who was clearly showing a town mindset. They could kill her, yes, and had we not lynched her, they would have, but because they could push her mislynch (AND I DO CALL IT A MISLYNCH!), they did so. Tammy had been shown to shoot scum. Tammy had been shown willing to play ball with the town, to roll with their ideas. Her role was already known and PROVEN, so there was no town doubt. She was an extreme threat, hindering them every step of the way. There was EVERY scum motive to want her dead, as laid out in my iso, among others. Tammy, once known to be a day-SK, was even MORE of a threat to them than Tammy was before she was known to be a day-SK.
The difference is as clear as night and day.
'Course, it's all pointless to talk about the difference between scum pushing the PGO vs. scum pushing the day-SK, since Aco
