[OLD] Open Setup Discussion and Nominations

[Fiasco]

Loser Mafia

2 mafia
11 citizens
day start
nightkills are compulsory
lynching is compulsory (use a suitable deadline rule)
losing side wins

[mith]

That's a pretty big rule change...

Good idea though. Definitely should be tried sometime.

[mith]

I should look at the rest of page 3, huh.

I guess that a simple HP-based game (like 3 vs 6, nightless, HP start at 10, no HP gain, hits every 48 hours) would be too experimental to play it as an open game? Or what about a simple Kingmaker game?

Yes on the first, Kingmaker is a bit more established as a role so I'd be more ok with that.

And the first Vanilla on Brunchma was won by the town.

[ibaesha]

Loser Mafia

2 mafia
11 citizens
day start
nightkills are compulsory
lynching is compulsory (use a suitable deadline rule)
losing side wins

I'd play this one. Just to see what happens.

[Thok]

Loser Mafia

2 mafia
11 citizens
day start
nightkills are compulsory
lynching is compulsory (use a suitable deadline rule)
losing side wins

I assume nightkills must be townies. I'd try this.

[Fiasco]

Yes, nightkills must be townies. It may also be a good idea to disallow self-voting; I'm not sure.

[ShadowLurker]

It sounds sorta like reverse mafia in a sense.

[Thok]

It's a misere game (apologies for the lack of accents). Typically a decent winning strategy is to play to win and then throw it away on the last turn, but I'm not sure if that works here.

[Fiasco]

I expect it to play a lot like normal Mafia, except the focus will be on which player is the most likely to be town, rather than on which player is the most likely to be scum. I don't see why the town would first play to win in the usual sense; that would just make things harder for them. They should try to get innocents lynched, and scum should try to get themselves lynched by looking innocent.

[Max]

Could mith make it possible to eserve spaces in a game

[Yosarian2]

It sounds sorta like reverse mafia in a sense.

Yeah, just what I was thinking; everyone would try to act pro-town in order to get lynched.

It might be even more interesting with a pro-town vig or two; if you're a vig you could help the town lose by trying to kill a bunch of townies, but would you still keep trying to get lynched, or would you try to not get lynched until the endgame so you'd have more nights to kill?

[mith]

I've thrown in a couple noms, to Vengeful and the tentatively remaned Switch.

Basic Twelve Player is full, so I'll be grabbing a new game from here in the next day or two - this is a prod for nominations. I'll do a more complete update at that time.

I may also start work soon on an Open section for the wiki, so we have a quick reference in the OP.

[Fiasco]

nominate: nightless, one scum group
nominate: nightless, two scum groups

[spectrumvoid]

Nominate: reverse mafia. It sounds extremely fun!

[mith]

I still think Loser/Reverse should be run as a Theme, not as an Open Normal.

Cop C9 is almost full, so I'll grab two games today: Nightless 4:8 and Switch.

[mith]

Oh, Fiasco: I am assuming that the SK is not meant to have any immunities; is this correct?

[Fiasco]

Hm... maybe it's fairer to give the SK a one-shot nightkill immunity. (I don't have any special insight into the setup, though.)

Or, make it another mafia (the Metamafia?) with two members with no immunities: one master switch that disables the mafia's switching abilities, and one kill switch that disables the mafia's kill. But that's really a different setup, I suppose.

[Kelly Chen]

Hmm, I am a bit worried about the fact that a newbie could end up being asked to mod one of these unusual setups, without them ever having read of them.

With e.g. Vengeful the rule that the town autowins if the godfather is

lynched

, but not if he's vigged, seems to be one that has to be repeated due to not being intuitively obvious... Surely the Switch setup could raise more questions than that.


Could a split role/alignment setup fit here? (Basically reveal the 12 roles in the game, and the number of scum, but scum receive one of the 12 roles randomly, like everyone else.) They (most likely) violate the principle that there ought to be some townies, and as such they're probably hard to balance well. The fake claim issue is taken care of, though.

[mith]

Or perhaps no immunities, but the switch acts on that Mafia's kill ability as well as the blocking. Or acts on

either

the kill or the block.

Think I'll just leave it as is this time, and we can tweak it later. The SK shouldn't be worse off than a 3-1-8 (definitely less chance of winning than the Mafia, but not a completely hopeless cause either), and the switch can potentially be used to help out (I'll leave futher strategy discussion for the players).

[mith]

Hmm, I am a bit worried about the fact that a newbie could end up being asked to mod one of these unusual setups, without them ever having read of them.

With e.g. Vengeful the rule that the town autowins if the godfather is lynched, but not if he's vigged, seems to be one that has to be repeated due to not being intuitively obvious... Surely the Switch setup could raise more questions than that.

I'm keeping an eye on all the Open games for now, and in the case of weird setups I'll elaborate on them in my PM to the Mod. Experience co-mods would be ideal, though. And there's also room for restricting some of the setups, like Switch, to Mods with some experience.

Could a split role/alignment setup fit here?

Sure, as long as the roles aren't too crazy. And, as you say, balance can be an issue.

[Fiasco]

Here's one thing that may need to be clarified:

The Serial Killer can decide whether each of the Mafia Switches is able to block.

Does this mean the SK can say "I want to block the vig-blocker and the cop-blocker, but not the doc-blocker"? I didn't intend it that way, but I could see it working as well.

[ChannelDelibird]

How's about this:

1 Godfather
3 Mafia
---
1 Sane Cop
1 Paranoid Cop
1 Insane Cop
1 Naive Cop
1 Cop (random from Sane, Paranoid, Insane, Naive)
4 Millers
5 Townies

[ChannelDelibird]

Oh, wait...don't bother with the random cop. obviously not open. *smacks face*

[Fiasco]

Another one that may be too unusual:

Menu Mafia

8? citizens
1 serial killer
1 mafia godfather
2 mafia goons
night start

Each night everyone selects one power from the Menu (and a player to target with it), except the Godfather, who selects two, and the Serial Killer, who selects three. (This takes the place of the scum's nightkills.) Each power has a limited chance of working. Taking the same power and target multiple times is allowed, but risks waste if more than one attempt succeeds.

The Menu:
Easy powers (50% chance of working): doctor, roleblocker, nightkill-immune, cop-immune
Hard powers (25% chance of working): cop, vigilante, lynch-immune, tracker

(variant: replace 2 citizens with masons, who don't get to choose from the Menu)

[Fiasco]

Oh, wait...don't bother with the random cop. obviously not open. *smacks face*

Mildly random things like that are considered OK, I think. Your setup looks like an interesting dethy/vanilla blend. I'm not sure about balance, though. Are the millers told they're millers?