Mini 374 - Numbers Mafia, Game Over!

[Adele]

I'm just off to work, I'll random vote later. Just wanted to say "hi".

[Adele]

It's not my fault...

arbitrary omgus vote: Maz Medias

, for saying "random" when it clearly wasn't

[Adele]

Was, too; it was because he was the first person to vote for me. I don't suspect him, and the reasoning behind the vote can't ever be better than facile - hence arbitrary.

[Adele]

Yes, yes, all very nice, but I don't see what's happened that justifies a thrid vote on me on page one. Harsh much? Kindly unvote.

[Adele]

I'm not sure what I think is scummier: Nightfall's ridiculous 4th vote on Adele or the bandwagon on Nightfall that formed afterwards...

If a person's scummy, acting against them (in the form of FOSs, votes, wagons and lynches, depending upon the level of scumminess) is a pro-town act, surely. In which case, the only complaint one can level is that response is disproportionate to the original scumminess.

As Nightfall placed a fourth vote, and four votes ended up on him, I don't think he has any unhypocritical cause to complain.

I think that if Boo is scummy for placing the fourth vote, then Nightfallis by definition summi

er

unless he can point to an action of mine which is scummier than placing a fourth vote at this stage.

Finally,

wait so its OK for you to vote for him, but not for me to vote for him??

Yes. A vote is not simply a vote, it's also an action placing a person at lynch-X. A fourth vote is intrinsically more dangerous than a third, and so requires a greater justification. There's no excuse for not knowing that since it's why Nightfall (who, with over 1000 posts, surely knows these basics) was wagoned in the first place!

[Adele]

a 5th vote lets two other people lynch him
the scum arent going to blatantly finish someone off like that without a roleclaim, so a 5th vote isnt that scummy, its actually probably UNscummy

How is it UNscummy? Because that looks like WIFOM to me, and I consider WIFOM logic scummy too.

[Adele]

pshh. I don't mean type-2 WIFOM: "Mafia wouldn't do that because it'd be directly disadvantageous", I mean bona-fide, type-1 wriggling: "Though it wouldn't directly harm mafia, and might even help, they wouldn't do it because it looks bad and they don't want suspicion on them". Type-2 is logical, Type-1 isn't. Type-2 is honest, Type-1 isn't. I consider Type-1 a tell.

If Boo can explain the reasoning behind his argument, though, and show it to not be a case of type-1, then cool.

[Adele]

The fact is, boo, that before someone's lynched, someone

has

to place the fifth vote. So the fifth-vote-placer

is

supporting a lynch or quicklynch, not defending against it.

[Adele]

[/quote] is the end tag; [quote] is the start tag. I put them in reverse so you could see them. Of course, you could always just hit the "quote" button in the top-right corner of the post you want to quote, and it'll open up a reply box with the quote ready-made in there.

This gives me an idea for a "general discussion" topic

[Adele]

He said that it was a mistake, corrected it and apologised.

[sarcasm]Clearly scum[/sarcasm]

I think I'm more caught up in Boo's stubborn refusal to admit getting people closer and closer to being lynched might result in their lynch and so is a potentially a very scummy action (particularly if it's very quick or random)

[Adele]

standard message: apologise for my absence, will post tomorrow.

[Adele]

I expect to ride Boo's replacement

hard

. I'm waiting for him.

[Adele]

Did Claramata ever get replaced?

I'm *this* close to hustling for one...

[Adele]

No, he voted someone for

hypocrisy

- Brizzi had a go at Mini Neo for only having posted once - in Brizzi's

second

post.

[Adele]

Sailor Jerry, I consider crazy overdefensiveness and inappropriate reactions to appropriate suspcion to be (unfortunately) a more reliable and a stronger scumtell than lurking. If you're going to defend yourself, please hit the first line of defence (cogent, proportionate argument dealing with the accusations and facts) before the last (and claiming's barely a defense at all; it's often as flimsy as an appeal to emotions; "don't lynch me because I'm the doc I can't prove it or anything but bad thing's'll happen if I die").

[Adele]

I'm convinced your behaviour is a safe hiding place for scum. Taking refuge in a safe hiding place for scum is scummy.

I play as best I can, and I'm not wavering from that to fulfill your plea to adapt to your style. I'm conviced that if I did, I'd be a worse player. No game.

Vote: Sailor Jerry

In case anyone's wondering, that puts him on 3. No full votecount from me, I'm too lazy and no-one else is at any risk whatsoever.
Sailor Jerry: 3 (ROTN, Mert, Adele)

[Adele]

Or we'd be pressuring you to actually say something useful still. I'm with Ranger on this one - I have no time for people like Sailor Jerry who expect that the game of mafia should adapt to them rather than vice versa, and I think if

I

gave them what they ask for - special treatment - it'd make me a worse player.

The only thing you've given us is that Ranger's your top pick - you don't tell us anyone else you trust or distrust (as near as I can tell, you suspect Maz and me average amounts). You've not given us reasons why you distrust Ranger either.

Do you have any reasoned thoughts

at all

?
I almost want to change that question because it seems so incredibly harsh, but then I look back and SJ's spent the whole time refusing to share thoughts; now he's shared

one

, but we're in the dark as to whether there's any reasoning behind it. If there is, it's clearly a secret.

[Adele]

But I think that your unwillingness to explore options other than taking on the easy lynch, coupled with the fact that you would rather play the part of the metagame police than find scum - that's what makes you a worse player.

However, mafia here is a game of personalities and I'm prepared to go down purely on the basis of that. You don't have to like me

As for asking me who I trust or distrust, my stance is the same as it's been all along. We require more information. I headed off my pointless bandwagon with a claim in the hope that we could go and find some scum instead of piling stupid lazy votes on me while scum hide in the background.

OK, I'm trying to take you seriously here and not just get into a shouting match.

You're mad at all of us for going for the "easy lynch". You say there's not enough info out there for you to suggest anything better. Do you see the contradiction there?

You say that it's a game of personalities. Well, it's also a game of skill. If your personality appears to be destructive to this game, and you aren't employing your skills, how long do you think we should carry you (that's a serious question).

You want to go find some real scum, you want lots of lovely information - yet

you

are the person who appears, top me, to be contributing the

least

to that goal.

So help me out here. What would you have me do?

[Adele]

so Jerry's at lynch-2. If you're ever going to dazzle us with an amazing display of townieness, Jerry, now's the time...

[Adele]

It's a claim I would never be stupid enough to make, if I were scum.

Too great a risk of being counterclaimed?

That's such a WIFOM argument. If anyone needs me to explain exactly why, I'll be hella surprised, but I'll be happy to.

[Adele]

I'd point out scummy things in others, but there are none to point out.

Sailor Jerry says that no-one's acted scummy.

I have pointed out before that you've failed to look for any other options, but I note that the policy does seem to be to completely ignore everything I say or to do the complete opposite. And that's just lazy...

What other options? Lead by example, pls. Seriously, I don't know what you're asking us to do here. Why won't you show us. Why are you telling us what to do and not doing it yourself.

Answer: You're mad at us for not scum-hunting

while being convinced

that scum-hunting is currently impossible.

Jerry, you gotta realise this game is made up of individuals like yourself. Anything I can do, you can do. So if you are seriously saying you can't do anything, then you have to respect that I can't either, and a random lynch is the best we're getting. In which case you can't really complain if you're the subject of it.
In any case, I believe you're better-than-average, but do you get my point??? Because I'm really tryin' here.

[Adele]

I thought he was at lynch-

2

[Adele]

/"bah"