Mafia 158: Titanium. Game over

[pappums rat]

Hi everyone Im the replacement for Jun. I'll be reading up on this game tonight and tomorrow and hopefully have a post up later in the day.

[pappums rat]

Alright folks Im having a hard time getting through this, Im in one of those modes where I krrp reading the same post over and over and it doesnt seem like English and doesnt make any sense, and the Day 1 bullshittery is getting to me and I need to take a break and come back to this tomorrow. Just so I can get up to date on current things, 1. are there any claims on the table at this point, and 2. if people could put their case in a nice short post or link to why their target is scum I would appreciate it.

[pappums rat]

Well, this game started back up then. Okay, I am going to admit that my read-through of this game wasnt as thorough as would have been optimal, but it was rather unpleasant and I skimmed a fair deal of it. I have done some ISOs as well. And one player in particular stood out to me. TBM is my best bet at scum at this point. I found Telo to be rather scummy, and TBM hasnt been an improvement. His crusade against Hiraki has been mainly about him "not reading the game" and I find his refusal to paraphrase his "case" against him to be scummy as hell. His quickhammer (and it was indeed a quickhammer) was just awful. His hammer post:

Vote: Mae.

No point stalling it out again.

came when the deadline was about 12 days away, on the 11th, and if he was town he would have pushed for a Hiraki lynch (you know, the guy he's been tunnelling the shit out of since he replaced in). The day was only about 2 RL days in, and if he had actually posted some content, in the form of an actual case on his "scumread" and had pushed for his lynch, he possibly could have put it through. But instead he quickhammers 2 days into the day after a half-hearted vote on Hiraki. This guy isnt scumhunting, he is just tunnelling one player and being your garden variety opportunisic scum. He is preying on the apathy of the town (which it has in spades) and he is our best chance at hitting scum and having a shot at winning this game.

Vote: TBM

[pappums rat]

Oh BTW I'm VT. TBM goes next.

[pappums rat]

Scums already on me sorry you gotta actually do something.

Numbers scum Hikai scum.

Lynch them.

Scums already on me sorry you gotta actually do something.

sorry you gotta actually do something

do something

lulz. Pot, meet kettle.

[pappums rat]

Oh yeah and its your turn to claim, TBM. Next post if you wouldnt mind.

[pappums rat]

VT, if anyone still needs to know that.

BTM is probably town because smash is voting him.

Why does this make any sense? Smash is pretty much confirmed town.

The fact that he's a confirmed town does not change the fact that he's been consistently mislynching

and

ignoring me when I pointed out that Enigma was obviously town

and

wrongfully read me as scum several times. Simply put, if he thinks BTM is scum then BTM is statistically speaking far more likely to be town.

LOL what the fuck am I reading? A person being wrong in the past about other people has exactly ZERO impact on what role PM any given player has recieved. People are wrong about other people all the time, that's why scum win more games than town, but that does not mean by any stretch of the imagination that a person has been wrong in the past cant be right now. By the way, how many scum have you lynched in this game, eh? ROFLMAO. Statistically speaking, this is one of the more braindead posts I have read in my time at MS.net, and I played several games with DeityKabuto, so that is saying something. Also, nice WIFOM with the "wrongfully read me as scum several times" bullshit. So buldermar is probscum, good to know.

I'm glad someone else saw the numbers scumslipping though.

How exactly was that a scumslip? How in the actual fuck can someone call that a scumslip??? And I do expect an answer to this, as I dont see how anyone could possibly accuse numbers of a scumslip from that post.

[pappums rat]

Also, I would like to note that TBM continues to refuse to claim, and that he has refused to interact with me whatsoever. He scurred.

Buldermar also didnt have anything to say about the points I made about TBM's quickhammer. Interesting...

[pappums rat]

TBM, why did you think the best course of action yesterday was to hammer someone 2 RL days into the day rather than push your scumread Hiraki?

[pappums rat]

I'm glad someone else saw the numbers scumslipping though.

How exactly was that a scumslip? How in the actual fuck can someone call that a scumslip??? And I do expect an answer to this, as I dont see how anyone could possibly accuse numbers of a scumslip from that post.

Also TBM I would like to know your thought process into why this was a scumslip from numbers.

[pappums rat]

NJAC, since you are here what is your opinion on TBM's hammer yesterday?

[pappums rat]

[pappums rat]

LOL what the fuck am I reading? A person being wrong in the past about other people has exactly ZERO impact on what role PM any given player has recieved.

Him wanting to lynch someone is statistically associated with that person being town. Is that too difficult a concept for you to comprehend?

That's not how statistics work, braj. If you flip a coin 5 times and it comes up tails 5 times, the next time you flip it it still has a 50/50 chance of going either way. If you want to say he has shitty reads, then say he has shitty reads, but dont start talking statistics, as they are two completely separate things. And as has been pointed out, your reads have been equally shitty since you have not gotten any scum lynched either. Smashbard is right though in that you and TBM are trying to discredit the only confirmed town we have in this game, which is 100% scum motivated. You should be making a case against his case, not a case on his previous reads.

Buldermar also didnt have anything to say about the points I made about TBM's quickhammer. Interesting...

Correct, because your points were retarded.

Why are they retarded? Explain please.

Buldermar's #1670-4 are awful and just try to discredit Smashbard. For one thing, he says that Smashbard would be solely responsible for a town loss, which is bullshit, and him claiming that everyone not needing to claim when we are in LYLO is fucking stupid as shit. There is nothing to gain from not massclaiming, and on the off chance we do have a power role, scum could possibly claim that power role and be counter claimed.

No, you made a horrible case on Hiraki that literally NOBODY buys that you refuse to elaborate on.

Terrible case?

It's literally one of the most solid cases I've ever seen. Seriously what the hell are you going on about?

The simple fact that you refuse to elaborate on it or answer questions regarding it shows that it is bullshit. I went through your entire ISO looking for your "case" and all I found was a few posts about how he supposedly wasnt reading the game. That is fucking all. If you are town and give a fuck about lynching scum and having a shot at winning the game, please FTLOG throw us mentally handicapped troglodytes a bone and go a little further in depth about how his responses in thread show that he is not reading the game and how that makes him scum. Also, please answer the question about why you thought that hammering someone you thought was town (or at least gave no indication you thought was scum) 2 days into the new day was a better course of action than pushing your scumread Hiraki. I know that you said "theres no point dragging this day out" but there was a good chance you could have possibly gotten Hiraki lynched if you had tried, and even a few RL days of pushing Hiraki still would not have been "dragging the day out". So please explain why you hammered.

[pappums rat]

GODDAMN IT SMASHBARD WE STILL HAVE A SHOT STOP BEING A FUCKING RETARD.

[pappums rat]

BTW all that dividizzle's post proves is the scenario where he is scum and TBM is town is not true. It does not clear him or TBM.

[pappums rat]

Smashbard, you had no protown reason for voting Hiraki. TBM is our best bet at scum. Vote him please.

[pappums rat]

TBM claims that Hiraki just brushed over the fact that the VC thing was wrong here:

It's harder to act more scum then this exchange.

Notice he just dismisses it and still keeping riding the Mae lynch.

And Hiraki did just that here:

You got me for the least important point of my points on Maenara.

Oh welp. You got me.

I dont think this is scummy because at the same time he tells TBM that he was voting Maenara for other, more important reasons. When TBM voted Hiraki for not reading the game, Hiraki made that post and essentially gave TBM the finger because he was nitpicking a small detail like that. A point that I want to make is this: not reading the thread closely is not a universal scumtell. Uninterested town do it all the time, and they make errors like that one that Hiraki made. TBM looks like scum to me for taking this one small thing and blowing it way out of proportion and tunnelling Hiraki nonstop ever since while contributing nothing else. His quickhammer on Maenara after two RL days (who he didnt have a scumread on) without pushing Hiraki at all that day bolsters the scumread on him. Add to that his refusal to interact with me and explain his hammer on Maenara is the final nail in the coffin. I am an experienced player who is not going to change my mind so easily because of shoddy yet still believable reasons, and he refuses to answer my questions. Yet when less experienced people ask him questions, he gives them what they want because he thinks that they are more likely to be swayed by his faulty logic. This is scummy. When a player refuses to answer one person's questions and does so for another, this is a surefire scumtell, especially when there is an experience gap like there is in this game. TBM is scum. Lynching him is the best chance we have at hitting scum and having a shot at winning this.

[pappums rat]

Guys, the reason I don't believe TBM to be scum here is because he's been a lone wolf the entire game. He hasn't worked with anybody, tried to confirm anybody until just now, and has provided just enough scumreads to get by. If he's scum, he's damn good scum that's perfected the art of distancing. I just don't see it.

Or perhaps this is just because he has tunnelled the shit out of Hiraki all game and not really had any interactions with other people, therefore there would be no chances of him drawing any associative tells.

Ehmmm... stating intend to hammer... someone disagree?

No, he is our best chance at hitting scum today. If you think he is scum, lynch his ass.

[pappums rat]

You suck and need to learn to play protown.

[pappums rat]

I cant make sense out of this game, no matter how many ISOs I go through. I dont really see TBM's "case" on Hiraki, but I will sheep him from the grave I guess, and Smashbard made a good point about him buddying me right when greygnarl came into the game.

Vote: TheLocomotion

Honestly I thought this game would be over at this point. I cant see how only 2 scum would get put into a large game... or two town roleblockers for that matter.

[pappums rat]

Buldermar can't be scum at this point. He has played a solid game from start to finish always using the best of logic that he has had available at his disposal. To suddenly go "Derp, there could still be 3 scum" when it's been explained pretty clearly why there can't be 3 scum at this point shows me that he doesn't understand scums win condition in this game.

The fact that he continues to push it and the fact that 3 town to 3 scum means Scum wins hasn't sunk in yet, shows me he is just mistaken town at this point.

Buldermar, confirmed town.

It's not outside the realm of possiblity that he could be pretending to not understand this to gain a townread, so calling him confirmed town for it is a bad idea.

@NJAC: how do you know the scum dont have power roles?

@TheLocomotion: do the kill publicly in the thread. The town needs to take a vote on who should be killed. At this point I am leaning either buldermar or numbers.

[pappums rat]

@ mod: hypothetically if there was a role in your game that could daykill, would the player be allowed to make the kill in the game thread?

[pappums rat]

You know buldermar, it is possible to put all your thoughts into one post instead of spamming the hell out of the thread, right?

@TheLocomotion: Go ahead and shoot whichever of buldermar or numbers you would prefer, but please do so soon. There is no reason to drag this out. If you can in fact daykill, I think I would put you in the clear because giving the scum a daykill in a game with such low town power as it is would be fucked up. I dont see why you have not used your power yet, and am still skeptical as to whether or not you actually have this power. I think it is possible you could have fakeclaimed this in an attempt to stave off your lynch and then say you will use it tomorrow if we lynch "right" today.

P. edit: No, NJAC is my second strongest townread after Smashbard (my only non-confirmed townread, in fact). NJAC would be the worst person to daykill.

[pappums rat]

I read what you said, that doesnt mean you have to make 10 posts in a row to say it.

[pappums rat]

Threadspamming makes the thread harder to read, making it in the best interests of the town to not do so. Making a comment regarding that took about 5 seconds and did not take anything away from attempts to scumhunt. Duuuurrrrrrrrrr.

[pappums rat]

Currently, Smash has a much better read on me, which means that the possibility of Smashbard incorrectly interpreting me as scum is rather small compared to Loco incorrectly interpreting me as scum.

Statements like this make me LOL.

If you for some reason want to lynch rat before NJAC that obviously doesn't matter to me - I know they're both scum.

So you have cop guilties on us both, eh? You should have come forward sooner.

And wrt why I asked rat specifically in 1837, I think it's too obvious but I'll explain you: rat posted between my posts, so he was online. In fact looking in hindsight he refusing to unvote when I explicitly asked him makes him your partner.

I refused to unvote because I was confident we were about to lynch scum and I saw no reason why his lynch should have been stalled.

Vote: buldermar

[pappums rat]

Right now Im not worried about finding out the scumteam in one fell swoop, I just want to get my top scumread lynched, and that happens to be you. TBH though, what you are saying is correct, the only possible solution to a 2 man scumteam (instead of one SK) is that you and NJAC are partners, but it is not a sure thing and I would be more comfortable lynching you.

[pappums rat]

2) NJAC & Buldermar are scum. Which would mean that they are pulling off the single greatest last ditch effort scum gambit in the history of Mafia, and deserve the win. Because honestly, there was NO WAY they could of ever guessed that there was a One-Shot Dayvig this set up and came together to say "Hey, if a situation ever happens where there is 5 people left we should vote for each other to throw of the town to commit one last mislynch".

...

NJAC & Buldermar can't be scum together unless they are geniuses bussing one another in a last ditch effort for town cred, and are voting one another.

There is a serious gap in your logic here. Where exactly did they set up this last minute bus? The dayvig appeared and took his shot, and then from there they bussed. There is no need for them to have anticipated a dayvig for them to be bussing each other now. And bussing happens all the time, so it is not like this is some amazing thing that is happening like you are making it out to be.

3) Pappums Rat & NJAC are scum. Which makes perfect sense at this point. Mostly because Rat was impatient and voted for Buldermar hoping that Locomotion or I wouldn't consider the possibility of Rat being the common denominator lynch and just jump on Buldermar to win them the game. So in a way, Rat just handed us the game.

I had expressed my suspicions of buldermar even before TBM was lynched. I also "was impatient" with the TBM lynch and refused to take my vote off him when I was asked. I also didnt take my vote off of TheLocomotion until he had proved his ability. If TBM had flipped scum, I would have been on buldermar immediately today but because he flipped town and I respect his ability to play mafia, I thought I would sheep him even though I didnt really see his case on Hiraki. So you see, I have a history of voting who I think is scum regardless of what others ask for or what claims are on the table. I believed buldermar to be scum, so I voted him.

[pappums rat]

Smashbard, what is your case on me exactly? AFAICT it has mainly to do with who voted who today. There is far more content in this game that is actually relevant to the game and doesnt have to do with your inane conspiracy theories about setting up busses and other shit like that.

[pappums rat]

* And please also address my post #1908.

[pappums rat]

What in the actual fuck.

[pappums rat]

So it was:

2 masons
2 roleblockers
10 VT

vs.

1 assassin
1 goon

Hmmzorz.

The two roleblockers had the whole counterclaim problem (one RB pushed to claim, other CCs, they lynch one then the other is NKed). 2 masons is fine but town could have still used some more power I think. One thing about only having two mafia in a game this size is it is really hard to come across relational tells when there are no dead scums. And giving the scum a daykill, eehhhhhh.... Does "unlimited" mean they could have daykilled every day? It doesnt seem that way given that they would have done so. What does that mean?

All in all this was a really unpleasant game to have to read through, and I was quite irritable thoughout my time in it. So yeah. Sorry if I was a bit more abrasive than I needed to be.

Also, can we get the scum and dead qts?

p. edit: so it was an unlimited extra kill for the scum? Holy fucking fuck.

[pappums rat]

Weak case my ass.

Not reading the game is a valid point to bring up against someone, but if you had elaborated on why it made Hiraki scum and put it in one post like was asked of you numerous times, there is a good chance you could have gotten support for your wagon. Not answering questions and outright ignoring people is not the way to get your scumread lynched, and in turn makes you look scummy.