Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Legacy (Game Over)

[AngryPidgeon]

W/e, just tell it to Nero if you have daychat in the neighbor QT.

[Tammy]

I already said I didn't have day chat.

[Yates]

This makes me sad.

[Elscouta]

It's sad that the main argument of the people that want to lynch Tammy is "we need to lynch Tammy otherwise we will keep being stubborn about lynching her".

Anyways, the only way to resolve this situation is for the people that haven't voted yet to vote. It is absurdly anti-town to not take a stance here. Let's end this debate. You already know my vote will be on any decent Tammy counterwagon (pidgey / ascomist prefered though)

[Tammy]

This makes me sad.

Why?

[Yates]

I think people will be less inclined to believe you and I don't think the way you are leaving things will have the intended effect.

[Tammy]

Well what would you do Yates? If someone sent you a message and seemed really paranoid that their thoughts would get them killed? Ive confirmed that I received the message. That's all I needed to do. The message isn't important. I realize it's silly, but still.

[Yates]

I would out the message. If it isn't tied to a person it can't hurt them. I think that will do a number of things; one of which is to give that person the ability to much more effectively prove they were the one to send you that message if required.

[Tammy]

I already said it was their thoughts on the game.

[Yates]

:facepalm emoticon

You just aren't helping your case.

[Tammy]

There's nothing I can do about that Yates. Are you saying if I outed the message suddenly all the people on my wagon would realize what a great person I am and decide to keep me around? It's not going to change anything.

[pappums rat]

Votecount 2.16

"I'm going to kill you, Harry Potter. I'm going to destroy you. After tonight, no one will ever again question my power. After tonight if they speak of you, they'll only speak of how you begged for death. And how I being a merciful Lord... obliged." -Voldemort, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire

Tammy - 8 (snifit, Acosmist, Kise, Benmage, AngryPidgeon, pidgey, mykonian, WrathChild)
Acosmist - 3 (Kublai Khan, Yates, mastin2)
WrathChild - 1 (Tammy)
Kise - 1 (jasonT1981)
pidgey - 1 (Elscouta)

Not voting - zabriel, PeregrineV, MagnaofIllusion, Nero Cain

mastin2 is V/LA until Monday

With 18 alive it takes 10 to lynch.

The deadline for Day 2 is 3 PM EST on November 15, 2012.

[zabriel]

Hungover. Reading. Still don't like Tammy-lynch and will not vote for it. Kind of uncomfortable with Aco lynch. Elscouta, you're the only one on pidgey right now, so could you point me to the case on him? Things are bleeding together right now. Also, what do you think of the stray votes on WC and Kise?

[Elscouta]

Elscouta, you're the only one on pidgey right now, so could you point me to the case on him? Things are bleeding together right now. Also, what do you think of the stray votes on WC and Kise?

Active lurking. Didn't cast a single decent vote. Too many of his posts contain either "i'm town" or "i'm lazy". No scumhunting. Way too much irony.

I'm disliking the WC wagon because people seem to suspect him only because people seem to suspect him. Some active lurking too, but pidgey is way worse on that account. I didn't see anything scummy on Kise.

[Yates]

Still don't like Tammy-lynch and will not vote for it.

Would you rather have a no lynch than a Tammy lynch??

[Kise]

He voted Ben (for voting Tammy?) before the guilty was revealed. Outside of that, no conviction. I can't be the only one who smells this.

[zabriel]

We would get some information out of a Tammy lynch, but I still think having a town-directed day kill is going to benefit us. I still think shenanigans, but even if the day mafia multiball suspicion is right, leaving Tammy alive effectively neuters her hypothetical scum team, since an unauthorized daykill is going to get her lynched on principle. I'd rather we move onto other scum suspects and let scum decide what to do with her. Even if we don't "need" the kill, it's a threat to scum, and she'll eventually take a bullet for the town. At the very least, we can use Tammy as a meat shield since there's at least one scum faction that needs her dead regardless of her alignment.

Of the people with votes, I guess pidgey is the person I'm most comfortable voting for. I had KK down as scum earlier, but I like his thoughts on Tammy, mostly because I don't think he'd defend a sinking ship if they were teammates, and if he were another scum faction he'd be pushing for her death with the rest of the town. I'm pretty sure that whatever Tammy is KK is town now.

VOTE: pidgey

[Yates]

I still think having a town-directed day kill is going to benefit us.

I obviously agree with this. However, I have never been in a game where we could direct a daykill before.

Let me rephrase my question this way; do you trust Tammy enough to bring her to LYLO?

[pidgey]

WE have caught scum and people are voting for me damn.

Also what was good about that case, zabriel

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok, so catching up to what has happened since I first posted …

--

1. I'm not really doubting the guilty. But the insistence of a lynch bothers me.
2. I'd prefer you ISO me and read my posts on the matter. I'm not going to read random large themes to try to prove a point. Even if I find 5 great leashing strategies, it's likely not going to sway anyone so the work-to-reward ratio is not beneficial.

Well this tells me all I need to know. Very little reason as Town to not want to lynch a claimed guilty that you believe. Or more precisely, little reason as Town if you don’t have some significant experience here on MS where leashing worked great.

If you accept that Tammy is indeed not Town then lynching her is 100% a Pro-Town move in that it eliminates non-Town (no matter what her alignment). Lynching anyone else is a less than 100% chance of a Pro-Town outcome. No amount of arguments otherwise is all that meaningful to the discussion about why it is a bad idea.

Why is the second scumteam theory so entrenched in you? There is zero evidence to support it. Occam's razor says SK.

Then why don’t you want to eliminate a Serial Killer, reduce the number of kills that can hit Town (remember, even a leashed Serial Killer is going to hit Town more than scum) and make scum’s job harder?

Zach’s Large Normal is a perfect example of why reducing kills is Pro-Town. There RedFF SK only got one kill off all game long (Day 1, when the Mafia kill was blocked) and Town eventually won on the back of having that many extra days to analyze data and draw connections.

--

Oh great, Mag is here. Now I gotta scratch mason off the fakeclaim list.

Explain.

--

@MOI what fakeclaim are you referring to?

How stupid would it be to fakeclaim cop d2 in a large theme?? How easy a CC there could be. Outting the real cop, likely getting myself lynched. Idiocy. I'm tactical. Tammy didn't shoot me because she'd be lynched afterward.

That fact that you haven't voted Tammy yet, makes me more wary of your slot.

In order –

1. The fake-claims I am referring to are such

A. You fake-claimed (completely, you were not even a Cop) in some Candy / Dessert themed game (I was not in it, just remember seeing the play) and got the Mafia Godfather lynched. This is the one I would qualify as successful.
B. You fake-claimed a result (you were half Cop IIRC) on Nero (again IIRC, did not look it up) in Gorrad’s Favorite’s and got Town Nero lynched. Luckily Town was able to pull it out given your gambit was later game (Day 4 or 5, again IIRC). This is the one I would qualify as a failure.

2. It would be incredibly stupid to do so. This doesn’t directly answer my questions and that is exactly what I am looking for. Please do so. I’m not voting Tammy until you commit fully to the investigation (aka no ‘It was a Gambit’) to me now. I have little interest in ambiguity in this situation.

3. From Nero and myk I could understand the “Lulz, I’ll just call MoI scum for reaction tests” posts. You I expect better of. Stop being bad.

--

1. I didn't shoot benmage because I have a town read on him. I'm not interested in shooting town. No, he would know I'm not mafia because I'm not mafia. That result is incorrect.

So your premise is you are Town unfairly scanned, Ben is truth-telling Town who just got fooled by a Tailor / insert mechanic that makes your result come back wrong here, and BloodC is your best guess for who is scum based on Day 1?

2. I didn't claim my role name right away because I was annoyed.

And if I wasn’t so steadfast interested in getting Benmage to confirm his claim I would be voting you right now as this is a Newb reason and you are not a Newb.

I never said the message would get the person night killed. I said that the person who sent the message thought his message would get him night killed and so he sent it to me. His thought rang as true paranoia, and town. I'm just not telling the message. The mod did not identify the sender.

So you can give the information in the message without compromising the sender’s identity (since you don’t know it), think they are Town (from your other posts), and still refuse to provide information about a player’s perspective that should theoretically help Town out ?

[MagnaofIllusion]

EBWOP

(to correct a factual inaccuracy that I just realized looking at the game rundown) -

Zach’s Large Normal is a perfect example of why reducing kills is Pro-Town. There RedFF SK only got two kills off all game long (Day 1, when the Mafia kill was blocked and Day 5, which was the only one that happened with the Mafia kill) and Town eventually won on the back of having that many extra days to analyze data and draw connections.

[Kublai Khan]

@MagnaofIllusion - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p4467445

[Kise]

@MagnaofIllusion - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=19558

[Elscouta]

Remember, even a leashed Serial Killer is going to hit Town more than scum

Like the normal lynch is more likely to hit town than scum. Assuming the daykill is directed by majority vote, anything that makes lynching good (as opposed to no lynch) also makes having an extra kill good.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MagnaofIllusion - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p4467445

Oh cool a link. Don't agree with your position. I thought that was made clear. Scum fundamentally have no interest in wasting a kill on a non_Town player this early in the game. Return to Liten is just a personal example - ThAd was a claimed killing role that we thought might have been a SK. We didn't even think of killing him til well down the line (when only 1 or 2 scum was left) and happily let the scum with Town Cred help direct his kills to off scummy looking Townies.

@MagnaofIllusion - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=19558

Yeah I played that game. Your point?

Like the normal lynch is more likely to hit town than scum. Assuming the daykill is directed by majority vote, anything that makes lynching good (as opposed to no lynch) also makes having an extra kill good.

No, it's a terrible idea. Town's advantage is having as many days as possible to analyze Vote Counts, interactions, and posts. Leashing a non-Town killer helps shorten this time frame significantly.