Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Legacy (Game Over)

[mastin2]

zabriel - 4 (Tammy, Nero Cain, jasonT1981, Acosmist)
zabriel - 6 (jasonT1981, Melmond, Nero Cain, Kublai Khan, I Am Innocent, Zoroaster)

Two zab wagons. The second is ESPECIALLY interesting, given the counterwagon which instantly formed to try and dissipate said zab wagon:

I Am Innocent - 4 (Benmage, ThAdmiral, rapidcanyon, Kise)
AngryPidgeon - 5 (ThAdmiral, rapidcanyon, Kise, Acosmist, Nero Cain)

zabriel - 4 (jasonT1981, Kublai Khan, Zoroaster, Cybertronix)

And THIS is REALLY interesting:
AngryPidgeon - 6 (ThAdmiral, Kise, Acosmist, Nero Cain, rapidcanyon, Yates)
zabriel - 5 (jasonT1981, Kublai Khan, Zoroaster, Cybertronix, BloodCovenant)
Melmond - 4 (Tammy, Benmage, zabriel, AngryPidgeon)

And the next changed votecount:
AngryPidgeon - 6 (Kise, Acosmist, Nero Cain, rapidcanyon, Yates, jasonT1981)
Cybertronix - 4 (BloodCovenant, ThAdmiral, AngryPidgeon, Kublai Khan)

Bam, zabriel wagon is gone.

Gotta go, so no time to formally analyze the above (though I think you get the gist of what I'm saying), and I've still got a few VCs after that to look at, but to my eye, this is VERY reminiscent of UN in 1377.

[Benmage]

People are fucking dumb saying they don't bye sk or multiscum or whatever daykill scum team....

Yet don't give an ALTERNATIVE TO A FUCKIN GUILTY.

Mastin and Yates, holy shit you two are blowing hard.

WHATEVER SHE IS SHE ISNT TOWN ALIGNED. THEREFORW EVERYTHING SHE SAYS IS A LIE TO PURSUE HER WIN Condition..... because if I was scum and a sk just did what town wanted I'd seek a siteban for NOT PLAYIN TO WIN. So there is no pet sk.

You lynch the person with the guilty you fucking scrubs.

[Yates]

You lynch the person with the guilty you fucking scrubs.

I don't trust your guilty? If you require baseless speculation; you could have sanity issues, scum could have a switcher, Town could have a switcher, scum could have targeted you with a role that corrupts results... *shrug*

I look at tit this way; she has fired twice. One shot she killed scum. The second shot she killed a scummy player. 99.9% of the time I would agree with you, Ben, but in this specific case I feel like we *do* have a pet SK *or* [and this is my opinion] she is telling the truth and is actually a Day Vig. Why are you in such a hurry to lynch her when this is very likely to resolve itself tonight? If it doesn't resolve itself tonight, I'll be more inclined to believe you and we can revisit this tomorrow. For now, I am "foolishly" clinging to my Town read on Tammy and think she has done a more than adequate job of proving herself Town aligned.

[Kublai Khan]

Yates, you're being an idiot. Put yourself in her claimed shoes. You have a town dayvig pm. You are not a miller. You have yet to take a shot. Someone claims a guilty on you. Do you:

A) shoot the player with the guilty result because it must be fake.
B) waffle, give no helpful information then shoot near randomly for a piss-poor reason (he didn't post)?

Hint: a is town. B isn't.

[mastin2]

Benmage, of course she's lying. And of course she's scum. But again, her power's proven. We know there's a daykill, and unless there's someone else controlling it aligned with Tammy, we know that Tammy's responsible for it.
If it were a scum power, I could maybe buy them vigging a partner, but ONLY if it were public to begin with. (Heck, I've dayvigged my scum partner before. Was a marathon, but still.) That didn't happen. It was private.

A private daykilling on scum means that whoever killed it is not aligned with said scum.
Ergo, Tammy is not mafia.

Is she scum? Yes. Yes, she is.
Is she mafia-scum? No; it's quite literally impossible for her to be.

Hunting the SK who has been helpful to the town is doing the mafia's work for them. Yes, she's lying. Yes, she's scum. But her shots have been good, and we know it can't be a mafia-aligned shot thanks to the private d1 kill. The shots themselves are not lies. The shots themselves can't be mafia-aligned. The shots themselves speak everything which need to be said about Tammy--that she's working for the town, even if her ultimate wincon is not with the town.

Does she need to die? Eventually, yes. Should she be lynched today? No, no she should not. That's

exactly

what the mafia want us to do.

[jasonT1981]

Does she need to die? Eventually, yes. Should she be lynched today? No, no she should not. That's

exactly

what the mafia want us to do.

this is very much how I always felt, hunt scum first, leave all other killing roles to kill scum. SK's need scum gone too, so will be trying to kill them

[Benmage]

What KK said, Yates your a fuckibg idiot.

What happens tomorrow when she rolls in with a fuckit mentality and shoots idno ... me the cop.

What gets us to lylo the quickest? Mislynhes and miskills... an opportunity to potentially removing a NONtown killing entity is the only intelligent move.

[Benmage]

Her shots have not been good she got lucky with AV. Thad was obviously town.

You can't trust her shot.

Period.

[AngryPidgeon]

Benmage, Tammy is an SK. Her only hope of playing to her wincon is to at least try and look town for the time being. So doing something other than letter her shot be directed means she loses. Shes basically a dayvig right now. I get that you had to claim to out her, but that is a sunk cost. I think she is an asset right now.

I don't care if her shots are good. I care that she not be the one picking the shot.

[Benmage]

Why get stuck in an oh shit moment down the road... when we can afford the lynch here you take it.


Not play guess when lylo is.

[AngryPidgeon]

How about she shoots Acosmist then?

[Benmage]

She did the pick the shot.

You can't trust her to play dayvig when everyone's like yah yah she's the sk.

She shoots the cop, gives some baloney I thought he was mafiacop... so she can pretend to be ptw... but its really just a defeastist shot... because she has no chance of winning.

And your cool to risk that.

Fucking idiots

[Benmage]

How about she shoots Acosmist then?

Bagillion dollars says she shoots be before that.

Any takers?

[AngryPidgeon]

:/

I dunno. Not to be an ass, but I think you are not seeing clearly since you had to out yourself to get her and you want her dead now. I mean thats unfortunate, but I do think she will be protown if alive for now.

[Benmage]

PUT IT THIS WAY

Town is in a powerful position. Blocked nk equals I can be protected tonight. No Mafia RB means I get a result.

Why risk such a powerful combo and not lynch a guaranteed nontown player.

Who could yield ample info about the setup.

[Benmage]

:/

I dunno. Not to be an ass, but I think you are not seeing clearly since you had to out yourself to get her and you want her dead now. I mean thats unfortunate, but I do think she will be protown if alive for now.

Being protown is playing agaisnt her win condition.

[AngryPidgeon]

Ok. VOTE: Tammy

Since we basically have follow the cop, I'm ok with this.

[mastin2]

What happens tomorrow when she rolls in with a fuckit mentality and shoots idno ... me the cop.

If she shoots someone like you, we lynch her. Simple as that. She shoots who we want her to.

Thad was obviously town.

To who? To you? Sure. But as much as you'd like to be, you're not the king of this town, whose words are treated as an almighty scripture. ThAd was under heavy suspicion. Many players, myself included, had him as potential (and even likely) scum. Add in perceived lurking, and he was looking worse and worse. He was headed for mislynch-territory.

If Tammy kills outside of a selected pool, she dies. I'd strongly recommend that the pool be Kise/zabriel/pidgey/PV, with potentials in the form of myk and BC.

All the players there are heavily suspected, and likely to be lynched. If she shoots them and they flip town, know what that means? That she saved us a mislynch. Yes, her shot would bring us closer to lylo, but so would the exact mislynch she just stopped, only it'd be with the added drawback of a town player dieing overnight as well.

Her alive right now is a second lynch. If she were a normal night-killer, I could hear an argument for lynching her. (I personally don't like to lynch SKs, since I see leashed SKs as being vigs, but hey, I know the risks.) But she's not. She's a day-killer. That's two kills during the day. Hers and the lynch. That's an incredible mechanic for the town to control, and the scum should be afraid of it. They should want it gone fast. They should want her dead.

And again, this brings me to the same point, which I will hammer home time and time again:

Lynching Tammy now is

exactly

what the scum want us to do.

[Benmage]

PUT IT THIS WAY

Town is in a powerful position. Blocked nk equals I can be protected tonight. No Mafia RB means I get a result.

Why risk such a powerful combo and not lynch a guaranteed nontown player.

Who could yield ample info about the setup.

It is because she is a daykiller that we must kill her.

Cap it all you want. Scum want her dead. Town want her dead more. Guaranteed.

[Benmage]

PUT IT THIS WAY

Town is in a powerful position. Blocked nk equals I can be protected tonight. No Mafia RB means I get a result.

Why risk such a powerful combo and not lynch a guaranteed nontown player.

Who could yield ample info about the setup.

PUT IT THIS WAY

Town is in a powerful position. Blocked nk equals I can be protected tonight. No Mafia RB means I get a result.

Why risk such a powerful combo and not lynch a guaranteed nontown player.

Who could yield ample info about the setup.

PUT IT THIS WAY

Town is in a powerful position. Blocked nk equals I can be protected tonight. No Mafia RB means I get a result.

Why risk such a powerful combo and not lynch a guaranteed nontown player.

Who could yield ample info about the setup.

[Acosmist]

VOTE: Tammy

2 days 2 scum down woowoo

[mastin2]

Benmage, if she kills anyone town, we'll know it's her.
If she kills someone we don't want her to, we lynch her. Plain and simple. She could send a "SCREW YOU" to the town, but doing so is against her wincon.

Hence, she's not going to kill you, or anyone we don't want her to. You'll continue to live, because it's impossible for you to be killed without Tammy suiciding.

VOTE: Tammy

2 days 2 scum down woowoo

I'm going to

murder

everyone who takes this stance celebrating two dead scum in two days when one of the dead scum isn't truely dead scum.

[Benmage]

Mastin there's no reason to risk the powerful position town is in.

I already said an alibi she could use. She's damned anyways.

No reason for the risk. Wake the fuck up.

[mastin2]

Could use, yes.
Would use, no. If she shot anyone we didn't want her to, with any excuse at all, she'd still be lynched.

We have control over her right now. She can't get away with ANYTHING. No killing the cop, no killing a player we don't want her to. She does, she dies, period, end of discussion, no excuses accepted.

I'll repeat: lynching her is exactly what the scum want us to do.

[Acosmist]

Benmage, if she kills anyone town, we'll know it's her.
If she kills someone we don't want her to, we lynch her. Plain and simple. She could send a "SCREW YOU" to the town, but doing so is against her wincon.

Hence, she's not going to kill you, or anyone we don't want her to. You'll continue to live, because it's impossible for you to be killed without Tammy suiciding.

VOTE: Tammy

2 days 2 scum down woowoo

I'm going to

murder

everyone who takes this stance celebrating two dead scum in two days when one of the dead scum isn't truely dead scum.

Send a kill my way, then. Afterward, we can immediately have words in the dead thread. It'll be fun.