Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Legacy (Game Over)

[pidgey]

Kise- dont really have a Read on BC.

[Zoroaster]

We added 10 pages? Good god.

Anywho, did Tammy name-claim?

[pidgey]

No she's apperantly afraid lol tammy are you voldemort or some shit like that

[Yates]

Holy crap you guys went nuts last night!

Its so fucking simple. If Tammy thought I was lying she would have shot me.

Maybe. However, she did appear to be looking for reasons you might have an incorrect read on her right out of the gate - BEFORE you claimed. It's a little weird that she "knew" you visited her, I'll give you that.

Here's the thing, though - now we know her kill flavor [blown apart]. If we see anyone else "blown apart" we lynch on site.

What is the down side to leaving her alive to draw the NK away from Cop claim? Scum has to know the Cop is going to be protected over Vig, right? She's the obvious NK choice regardless of if you believe she's a Day Vig OR SK. If she survives the night by some "miracle," I like the idea of making her shoot the PGO [unless Cop gets a guilty tonight]. If I'm not mistaken, PGO is only locked and loaded at night, right? So, she either kills a guilty or kills a role that needs to die thus she saves us a lynch later. That's a huge win for Town.

Also, I've never played a game with a Day SK. Is that even a thing? I'm inclined to believe Tammy's claim. I can't figure out why Ben would fakeclaim Cop as scum so I'm inclined to believe this claim as well. I have no explanation for the fake guilty outside of framer or sanity.

[Benmage]

Yates noone here would ever not shoot someone calling them guilty if they had a town pm and the ability to shoot. PERIOD!

Moreover it could be that scum day shoot/multiball here... skdaykill...

The beat case scenario for Tammy after getting a guilty would be to stall a days lynch. Not happening. She dies today, all info is available and we move on.

She would have shot me if she was town, PERIOD.

Ideally I can live. Mafia RB is dead, nokill last night if I am docd and not RB good good good.

[mykonian]

yeah, I wasn't at my strongest yesterday. Should have filtered a bit more. Sorry about that, I was working a bit sleep deprived.

Benmage is right. If tammy was town, she'd have shot him. Tammy however in her posts already gave up. She claims she'll act town motivated, which I believe, I guess. The problem is still that she makes the last choice (as she did with thadmiral here), which wasn't the choice of a majority of town. I'm doubtful that she'll act like a second lynch.

If it's indeed day-sk/one scumteam, we should lynch her today, or in two days, to end up at a uneven number. After that, the fact that the SK is gone simply means more mislynches for us as there are less townies getting shot.

I think I'm taking the 50% shot at scum tammy. I don't think you'll hit that 50% if we give you two more kills.

vote tammy

[jasonT1981]

Wait, why are people voting Tammy? shes town... now she is outted as Vig, the fact her first day kill was on scum should really clear her as town?

Don't understand why folks be voting Tammy.

Tammy - all but confirmed town.

[Kise]

Read. She reads guilty. The fact that she shot mafia means she is not affiliated with them... at the end of the day, she's still guilty.

[mykonian]

Wait, why are people voting Tammy? shes town... now she is outted as Vig, the fact her first day kill was on scum should really clear her as town?

Don't understand why folks be voting Tammy.

Tammy - all but confirmed town.

she claimed sk Jason. It's a shame, but she has got to go.

[mastin2]

Why not a kise vig?

'Cause I'm going for a Kise lynch.

VOTE: Kise.

I also refuse to believe any possibility other than "Tammy is a day-SK", since that's pretty much the only option which makes any sense with her play, her reactions, her actions, and Benmage's result. Right now, that means she's under our reigns. She needs to die the day before lylo, but other than that, well, her shots are pro-town. AV was scum, and ThAd was someone a good majority of the playerlist had become suspicious of. You can claim that was a bad shot all you'd like because it didn't hit scum, but the fact is, it was a good shot. ThAd was acting suspicious, ThAd had a lot of suspicion on him already, and if not for being shot, he had a significant risk of being mislynched today, so that shot was not a bad one.

So as long as her shots continue to be pro-town, I'm going to advocate us keeping her around. She gives us a second lynch in a day; you can't ask for much better than that.

Plus, the scum are either going to have to kill her, or let that second shot give the town a lot of extra power. In other words, she'll soak up the nightkill, or the scum are screwed.

AS IF THAT WASN'T ENOUGH, a Tammy wagon SCREAMS of being scumdriven, because of the above--the scum want her out of the game. If they can do so via lynch,

we're doing the work of the scum for them

.
Tammy's scum, sure, but she's not MAFIA-scum, and that's who we need to kill.

So lynch Kise.

[AngryPidgeon]

Spoiler:

I honestly would not be shocked if its Kise/Snifit/Zabriel purely because those two are trying to construe my Mastin pressure as a Snifit defense. I keep saying Snifit is scummy. The only thing bothering me right now is how much of a free pass Mastin is getting for shoving a case that IMO is hinged on a singular sketchy point.

After unvoting mastin, why did you choose to vote me over snifit? I had 2 votes, snifit had 4. And at what point did I become scum to you? I don't see anything from day 1 - nothing longer than your suspicion of snifit.

You have a history of calling people townish if they exhibit a carefree attitude.

Leaning town:
Kise (didn't really acknowledge him in my catchup ^^, but his intro post is a bit carefree, reads genuine)

Prob Scum:
Blood Covenent

Post 285/286: Ok, Benmage is now obvtown for being carefree.

BC, you have been posting elsewhere, why not here?

takes time to read dude.

Prob town.

I don't think my attitude has changed, if much at all. What is it that really bothers you about me connecting you and snifit?

Honestly, I'd rather have been voting RC throughout all of that, but there is apparently no support for that wagon. I already explained this several times. I do not understand why you were ok with Mastin's push. It was a case based on Snifit 'lying' and it was incredibly forced. You were on Mastin's hit list but apparently didn't care that his case ws forced and he was outright lying TO ME about there being any other points to the snifit case that he had made. It was setting of alarm bells all over my head and I couldn't understand why someone listed as a Mastin scumread was ok with getting on Mastin's train (yes I know you had Snifit as a scumread before) when the train was likely going to hit you the next Day. That, combined with you calling me buddies with Snifit really made me think it was more likely you would be scum than Snifit.

Yes, I like gutreads. And I try to quantify them, and it usually comes down to posting style/tone. Someone who doesn't care what people think about them is probably not scum.

Why shouldn't I be bothered about you connecting me to Snifit?

[jasonT1981]

Wait, why are people voting Tammy? shes town... now she is outted as Vig, the fact her first day kill was on scum should really clear her as town?

Don't understand why folks be voting Tammy.

Tammy - all but confirmed town.

she claimed sk Jason. It's a shame, but she has got to go.

Feck, missed that. Lazy reading on my part.

I still would rather lynch scuim than SK, in the hope SK gets more kills. But if it comes down to it, I would be ok then as she is not town

[mastin2]

Basically, looking at RC and one of PV/Tammy, one of Benmage/ThAd, Kise, and one of Zabriel/pidgey as a scumteam, off of the vc itself.

With a slight update, this is now:
RC, PV, Kise, and one of Zabriel/pidgey as the scumteam, with Tammy as the day-SK.

I haven't done my homework, yet, but it looks good in my mind.

[PeregrineV]

Still on page 46 and have work stuff to do, so will catch up in the next few days.

[Yates]

So as long as her shots continue to be pro-town, I'm going to advocate us keeping her around.

I agree with this. I still can't wrap my head around Tammy being scum aligned. I'll put it to you this way; if I was a day vig and Ben claimed cop and claimed to have a guilty on me, I probably *still* wouldn't shoot Ben either. Day/Night multiball is pretty much the only way she can be scum imo. I'm still not buying the day sk stuff. Another way of looking at it is that if she's SK or other team 1 scum, wouldn't team 2 scum want to kill her regardless? So even if you are 100% convinced she is scum, why not force night scum to take care of her tonight knowing full well Town will be controlling her kills?

If she shoots from the hip tomorrow, I'll eat my slice of humble pie and join the lynch. I just don't see how this can be bad for Town - and I'm someone who STRONGLY believes in killing all anti-Town roles as they emerge.

[Yates]

AS IF THAT WASN'T ENOUGH, a Tammy wagon SCREAMS of being scumdriven, because of the above--the scum want her out of the game. If they can do so via lynch, we're doing the work of the scum for them.

I should have kept reading the post but this as well. /parrot.

[Yates]

Feck, missed that. Lazy reading on my part.

No she didn't. She claimed Day Vig. Then she went ahead and, you know, Day Viged ThAd who was playing scummy. I'm only sorry I wasn't online last night to give her the idea to redirect her shot to Acosmist or *maybe* the BC slot [though I'm not typically a huge proponent of killing an empty slot regardless of scum read].

[jasonT1981]

^^ then I stand by my origional comment

[mastin2]

Iso time.

I saw your vote was on Zab, but the post I questioned made it seem less like you believed he was scum and more like you believed he was a smart flip. Those are NOT the same things.

Know how I said one of pidgey/zab as scum?
This quote strongly makes me think that if pidgey's scum, zab is as well. This is a preeeetty heavy zab-defense from Amrun.
That said,

On another note, I totally didn't realize we had a scum daykill hahahahahha that's awesome.

Much as I doubt AV got a scumbuddy mixed up with the PGO, I hesitate to think Amrun would miss the fact that she's now down one scumbuddy.

---

Spoiler: Kise

Hmm...zabriel, melmond, Zor, KK & Tammy are on my list.

Mel's town, Zor's town, Tammy's third party (so not groupscum), and KK's prob-town. So if there's a scum in here, it pretty much has to be zabriel.

For the record, that entire post is pretty much junk, and with his PV interaction, it looks like Kise-PV is half the scumteam.

Rereading IAI's last two posts, I see he's caught up with the game but is only setting sights on zab. What makes my eyebrow raise is how he prefaces the vote park by saying he may switch after reading other isos. So, let's just imagine zab is town and continues to get votes... Wouldn't it be opportunistic for IAI (assuming scum) to go "naaaah ima stay on this wagon. will read other isos later" I don't want to say too much until he responds but it rubs me the wrong way that he asks Ben for 4 suspects when only listing zab as his suspect.

In fact, pretty sure this makes zabriel the third, 'cause Kise is heavily attacking IaI, who is attacking zabriel. (VROOM VROOM!) Despite the fact that Kise himself had expressed zabriel suspicion.

Other minimalists/lurkers are Shah, Amrun, Zoro and Cyber

This is myk and pidgey's slots, for the record. Again, seems like there'd be scum here. Also, look at later in that post: He hasn't forgotten about zabriel, he says, with null-leaning sucm.

Also, looking at how much Kise mentions PV, it's pretty obvious that Kise and PV are scum.

In general, Kise's iso looks incredibly faked to me. I don't really have a way to put that feeling into words, but his posting just seems, well, to quote Khan, "cheeky".

---

PV's iso is basically a whole lotta nothin'. There's some pretty blatant distancing from zabriel, and a lot of RC hate, but that's pretty much it. PV's been lurking pretty much the whole game, both actively (not much content) and passively (via not posting much, but I'm fairly certain that's a null-tell for him). His posts come across as forced, and there IS that whole Mel/ThAd=masons thingy.
He does make me second-guess RC-as-scum, though.

---

Spoiler: pidgey

Anyway, I dont want to be apathetic since i've played with most of the player list before but i swear i will become better.

I've yet to see this. pidgey's done pretty much a whole lotta nothing. There is this gem, though:

AP why are you voting Kise btw

Why does pidgey want to know AP's reasons for voting Kise, specifically? He has a townread on AP.
+buddypoints

Add to that, he's had some rather anti-town ideas. He wanted Tammy to out the message. The messenger can out them when they choose to do so, and it's unnecessary now thanks to Tammy's claim. There's also this,

Goddamit this game is really hard to read!

Which just screams excuse.
His switch from Benmage to Tammy seems a little forced, and he jumps at the chance to lynch the guilty. Why? Because from his perspective, he knows that Tammy's not groupscum, and that the scumteam can potentially take out Benmage without having lost a member. He then asks for proof of a softclaim from Tammy, which is horribad. He keeps on pushing for a lynch on the dayvig. (Day-SK, but close enough.) Well after the claim. When if the claim was fake, Tammy'd be shot anyway. This, again, reads as scum trying to force a lynch through. He also pushes the angle that if Tammy flips town (which he "knows" she will) that Benmage is scum, potentially setting up a Benmage mislynch.

I've all-but convinced myself of Kise/PV/zabriel/pidgey being the scumteam, but let's go look at zab and RC to make sure.

---

Now on page 12, while I agree that the Zab wagon formed a bit too easily, it doesn't necessarily indicate that Zab isn't scum. Also, saying that he is town because the wagon was too easy equates to saying that scum don't bus. I think it is a possibility that scum voted him.

This does not sound like the post of someone on a zabriel scumteam.

My number one target is actually PeregrinV mostly because he is pretending not to read any of my posts.

-buddypoints; this comes from town.

Also, until I review the case on Melmond, I am going to

VOTE: PeregrinV

Might change at deadline.

As does this, and as does his tunneling on AP. I don't see that kind of posting towards someone often come from scum in this way.

---

As the expression goes, zabriel's iso is scummy-as-fuck.
It's a lot of nothing, and what little there is, is horribad.

Sorry for the wall, but I'm pretty sure of it now:

The remaining scum are Kise, PeregrineV, pidgey, and zabriel.

A lynch on any of them is a scum lynch.

[pidgey]

WOA THAT GAY ATTACK

Anyway its gonna be hard to convince but im town and im beginning to feel mastin is town too because of her comment regarding the Tammy lynch situation.

I really dont know why kise is stillg being attacked though but ill reread the slot just for u

[pidgey]

But if you want to lynch me and all then cool. Although its fun that you set up some lynches when you havent even seen Kise flip. If he's town then what, am I town too or scum still? Cause... yeah

[mastin2]

Yes.

You're not scum 'cause of interactions. Interactions contributed, but I looked at all of you, finding you all to be incredibly scummy.
Kise is bad, PV's worse, zabriel's the worst, and you're bad, pidgey.

The interactions are just the icing on the top of the cake for why you're scum.

[pidgey]

Also i never really pushed that if tammy flips town/scum benmage will flip scum/town so you are misreading me or mistaking me by another player.

But its ok.

IforgiveU

Pedit: LOL. Yeah im bad. You got me, way to go. Here's a cookie.

[pidgey]

[mastin2]

Melmond - 11 (Tammy, zabriel, Kublai Khan, Nero Cain, BloodCovenant, Benmage, Yates, AngryPigeon, snifit, rapidcanyon, mykonian)

Okay, so zabriel's clearly scum, here. However, I'm a bit concerned that he's my only suspect.
Tammy's day-SK (but not groupscum), Khan's a townread, Nero's a townread, BC's a weaker townread, Benmage is town, Yates is town, AP's town, and snifit's wagon was highly suspicious (see below), and RC's looking town via his iso, and myk's in my townlist. (Forget why; that might need re-visiting. But he's there, for the moment, for whatever reason.)

snifit - 4 (Nero Cain, mastin2, Kise, zabriel)

Add ThAd (vote #5) and Benmage (vote #6) here, and you get the peak of the snifit wagon. Nero's town, I'm town, ThAd's town, and Benmage is town. That really leaves only Kise and zabriel.

Kise - 4 (Kublai Khan, mastin2, AngryPidgeon, jasonT1981)

In contrast, this wagon is made up entirely of strong townreads, yet the wagon has consistently been derailed. Why? Why hasn't there been a stronger effort to lynch Kise?

And why, if he were town, wouldn't the scum have been interested in mislynching him?

I just don't see any scenario in which Kise is town.

(Also, note to self, do more wagon analysis for d1; there looks like there were quite a lot of wagons, and I want to see how they formed and why they did, along with why they--except the Mel one--failed.)