Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Legacy (Game Over)

[AngryPidgeon]

I'm not saying they aren't true. I'm saying they are obvious so I find it weird that you explicitly stated them all when switching votes.

[jasonT1981]

If you read my game history I am never a fan of empty votes. I always give reasons when I make my vote.

Basically your making an issue of this, even though you admit to my points being true? lol

[Tammy]

I cannot wait to find out why it is that Benmage knows what he thinks he knows. If he investigated me he'd know I wasn't scum.

I don't have any partners Benny-Boy, so gathering up people's reads on me or interactions with me or my reads on others are going to get you nowhere but send town on an awful wrong path.

[jasonT1981]

I cannot wait to find out why it is that Benmage knows what he thinks he knows. If he investigated me he'd know I wasn't scum.

I don't have any partners Benny-Boy, so gathering up people's reads on me or interactions with me or my reads on others are going to get you nowhere but send town on an awful wrong path.

sounds like something scum would say lol

[Tammy]

Or someone who is not scum and is flabbergasted at Ben's recent antics.

[zabriel]

Ben's last post is bad. I don't like it. The defense is meh, and weak defense always feels a little bit like it's trying to subtly direct a lynch. Or at least it made me feel like voting KK. But figuring in the Tammy stuff that AP brought up, I'm wondering about Ben.

VOTE: Ben

[pappums rat]

Votecount 2.6

"She's gone mental, Hermione has. I mean, not that she wasn't always mental, but now it's out in the open for everyone to see!" -Ron Weasley, Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban

Kise - 4 (Kublai Khan, mastin2, AngryPidgeon, jasonT1981)
snifit - 2 (Nero Cain, Kise)
Kublai Khan - 2 (Yates, snifit)
Benmage - 2 (Acosmist, zabriel)
mastin2 - 1 (mykonian)
Tammy - 1 (Benmage)
PeregrineV - 1 (ThAdmiral)

Not voting - BloodCovenant, PeregrineV, pidgey, Zoroaster, Tammy, rapidcanyon

Searching for replacements for rapidcanyon, BloodCovenant, and Zoroaster
mastin2 is V/LA until Monday
Yates is V/LA until Sunday
jasonT1981 is V/LA until Sunday

With 19 alive it takes 10 to lynch.

The deadline for Day 2 is 3 PM EST on November 15, 2012.

[Kublai Khan]

LOL... best you got? I fail to see what I lied about. Did I say I've always brought up how stung I was in all our games? You do know the whole reason for me bringing that up is because you called jason town, without consideration that he may be pulling a similar stunt as you, which is what you're acclaimed for? As far as I know, you're the first person to dupe town by fakeclaiming miller. No one really doubted D1 miller claims until after you got away with the fakeclaim and won. You're something like a celebrity. Your act isn't something easily forgotten. So, yes, I brought it up only after you acted as if jason could not be playing any tricks, because I know you're not new when it comes to trickery.

Except it's not similar in any way. If anything Acosmist's claim is the most similar to what I did and no, I'm not giving him any clearance for it.

Keep in mind, you didn't just say "Khan is suspicious", you called me the shadiest person in the game. You still haven't attributed any scum motivations to my actions, you just insisted that I should be a lot more paranoid. Well, there's scum motivation in boosting paranoia and poking holes in other's scumreads. Especially townreads of people of people you don't believe to be scum.

my vote is getting lonely here, can we please lynch scum instead of randomly wagoning a townie

once a game is enough for that poopoo

Is the entirity of your case against Benmage a protracted "he's trying to lynch me!" OMGUS argument? Because Benmage's counter-case of "Hey Acosmist is a useless fuck who is coasting and not scumhunting" is much more compelling.

And I'm kinda iffy on Benmage, so that's saying a lot.

...whu? Really? That's what you have for me? That's a misrep at BEST - not a lie.

Vote: Kublai Khan

Explain in your next post why you overstated your case on Kise because this is anti-Town bullshit and I'm in no mood for any more bullshit today.

A misrep is a type of lie. Kise came into the game essentially saying "Khan is a MASTER of manipulation". I'm going to view that as an attempt to discredit me. Especially since Tammy and mastin2, two players whom I've notoriously beaten as scum, are saying that I read as town and Kise has a history of boosting me as a credible town player.

It's meta, so all the caveats apply, but Kise reads like he's trying to be manipulative himself. You don't find it strange that Kise has yet to list a single town-read? Kinda feels like scum keeping their options open, doesn't it?

[PeregrineV]

This game is hard to follow for me.
Every time I've had a scumread on someone they've replaced out - iai became ap who I now think is town, cyber became mastin who I'm unsure about.
I've got town reads on a bunch of people but other than that I've got no real leads on who I think could be scum. There are people like snift who I wouldn't mind lynching, and zora (who's not posting), and maybe kise at a stretch (he's giving my gut scum feels).

Pere is an interesting one to me though. His recent post about thinking melmond and I were masons is interesting as it indicates he was looking for that sort of thing (i.e. town roles). He doesn't assume I was a scum partner protecting a buddy, or even a scum trying to gain town cred buddying town. I think I would expect more paranoia-infused suspicion from a normal townsperson. I had a look at his play yesterday and he gives a halfhearted attempt to get people off the wagon saying "Melmond not a good lynch. Please to vote rapidcanyon right now" (844), but never really pushes the alternative. And then just before the hammer he states "Melmond is town. I'll not vote him, and suspect everyone on his wagon", which is really far too little far too late as melmond was then hammered within three posts of that.
Considering that he had melmond as a likely scumread earlier in the day it really looks to me like scum trying to get points for defending town, without actually trying to derail the lynch in any real way.

vote: pere

I never catch stuff like that (hints, breadcrumbs, subtle claims), but when I ISOed you looking for Melmond and saw how much you defended your town read on him, I figured you had to be masons.
In all MY games with you, I've never seen you defend a town read that blatantly. And I've seen you bus and buddy before as scum. So, there's no way I think you are trying to gain town cred by calling Melmond town without having a stronger reason than "look at his posts".

[mykonian]

Ben's last post is bad. I don't like it. The defense is meh, and weak defense always feels a little bit like it's trying to subtly direct a lynch. Or at least it made me feel like voting KK. But figuring in the Tammy stuff that AP brought up, I'm wondering about Ben.

VOTE: Ben

you are wondering. Good for you.

I think you voted a townie.

vote zabriel

[Acosmist]

Is the entirity of your case against Benmage a protracted "he's trying to lynch me!" OMGUS argument?

Nope.

Because Benmage's counter-case of "Hey Acosmist is a useless fuck who is coasting and not scumhunting" is much more compelling.

See above. Don't you feel stupid now?

Still waiting on that wagon on me. No one even made an attempt yesterday. Why is that? Vote or shut your whore mouth.

[Acosmist]

I've been voting Pidgeon for a while and he doesn't acknowledge me at all. Obviously doesn't want to start a fight with my slot. But my vote is on him; how can he not? How can he be so sure that my vote is legit and I'm not scum trying to railroad him?

Benmage was saying things that were objectively bad strategy. Until someone comes along and says that Benmage is really, really bad at mafia, something I haven't noticed in my experience with him, I'm holding him to the standard of knowing the basics of the game. Bad advice is scum advice in cases that aren't borderline.

ThAd's posts (at least some of them) don't engage with the thread at all. It's like he's posting here accidentally and means to be responding to a different game. "Wait, that never happened" is my response to most of them replying to or talking about me. It's like he wishes I said things so that he could criticize them, but I didn't, but, hell, he's committed to the passive-aggression anyway, so RAMMING SPEED.

Yates is off. I'll figure out why he is off eventually.

Not sure whether Kublai Khan is lying and thus gets lynched as a liar, but whatever, I'd rather lynch him as scum. u scum with these ppl?

[Acosmist]

This game is hard to follow for me.
Every time I've had a scumread on someone they've replaced out - iai became ap who I now think is town, cyber became mastin who I'm unsure about.
I've got town reads on a bunch of people but other than that I've got no real leads on who I think could be scum. There are people like snift who I wouldn't mind lynching, and zora (who's not posting), and maybe kise at a stretch (he's giving my gut scum feels).

Pere is an interesting one to me though. His recent post about thinking melmond and I were masons is interesting as it indicates he was looking for that sort of thing (i.e. town roles). He doesn't assume I was a scum partner protecting a buddy, or even a scum trying to gain town cred buddying town. I think I would expect more paranoia-infused suspicion from a normal townsperson. I had a look at his play yesterday and he gives a halfhearted attempt to get people off the wagon saying "Melmond not a good lynch. Please to vote rapidcanyon right now" (844), but never really pushes the alternative. And then just before the hammer he states "Melmond is town. I'll not vote him, and suspect everyone on his wagon", which is really far too little far too late as melmond was then hammered within three posts of that.
Considering that he had melmond as a likely scumread earlier in the day it really looks to me like scum trying to get points for defending town, without actually trying to derail the lynch in any real way.

vote: pere

I never catch stuff like that (hints, breadcrumbs, subtle claims), but when I ISOed you looking for Melmond and saw how much you defended your town read on him, I figured you had to be masons.
In all MY games with you, I've never seen you defend a town read that blatantly. And I've seen you bus and buddy before as scum. So, there's no way I think you are trying to gain town cred by calling Melmond town without having a stronger reason than "look at his posts".

Ready to vote ThAd?

[mykonian]

Is the entirity of your case against Benmage a protracted "he's trying to lynch me!" OMGUS argument?

Nope.

Because Benmage's counter-case of "Hey Acosmist is a useless fuck who is coasting and not scumhunting" is much more compelling.

See above. Don't you feel stupid now?

Still waiting on that wagon on me. No one even made an attempt yesterday. Why is that? Vote or shut your whore mouth.

I'd be happy to do that.

vote acosmist

[ThAdmiral]

In all MY games with you, I've never seen you defend a town read that blatantly. And I've seen you bus and buddy before as scum. So, there's no way I think you are trying to gain town cred by calling Melmond town without having a stronger reason than "look at his posts".

You should have seen me in saw mafia. I literally had to fight against the entire town to stop the lynch of someone else who had claimed a suspicious role (but one I didn't think was scum), and when that failed I used a governor style ability on him (and I was right!).

not to blow my own horn or anything...


(here's a link)

[ThAdmiral]

Decided to do an iso of tammy because, you know, why not.

Turns out...
She is actually scum!

Have a look at these:

Melmond I'm voting you because I have a scum read on you. There's a lack of something to hold onto in your posts.Your case on BC was bad, in that it felt forced. I believe that you believe it but I got a sense of a possible bus/distance going on between you, and you are a stronger scum read for me than he is. Later I didn't like you asking why we were voting you, this could be personality but meh. There were never more than four votes on you and no more we're piling on so it read as you being too overly concerned about how you were being viewed. I also don't like your wagon hop onto cyber. If you have a strong scum read, why aren't you trying to push it? Also, why are you voting cyber? You didn't give a reason other than him being the best wagon that's going on right now. Why is he the best? Your jump onto cyber feels a bit survivalistic, which also reads weird to me because you only had three votes and no one else was saying they would jump on.

This is her case on melmond.
"I believe that you believe it"? Then how can he be scum?
Asking why people were voting him? Maybe this was because no one (especially tammy herself) gave reasons.
The stuff about "survivalistic" is crappy as well.

Thad - can you explain your ap read? I'm sorry if you actually do somewhere, it's late. I have no good read on him, and fully admit is playstyle sits in my blind spot.

This is going to become something of a trend - basically "faking a read on someone is hard - I'll just get someone else to do it or say the person is 'weird'".
Also, as was brought up by someone else (kk or ben), she constantly is making excuses for herself to allow for the fact that, you know, her reads are weak or she just lynched town.

This is because you think my halo isn't shining as brightly as you think it should? I don't know why some games people get an insta-town read on me and the next think I'm not the beacon I should be, but if you look at my actions this game, every single one of them have been town-motivated. I can't believe you can't see that.

Who, other than scum, claims that "every single one (of my actions) have been town-motivated"? And begs the question: "I can't believe you can't see that"?
This is like a minor scumclaim. Can't believe I missed this earlier.

And no, btw, I'm not claiming who messaged me right now. I'll leave that up to discussion for what's the best course of action. It will be outing one person's role and will be narrowing the pool for everyone else. I made sure it was there for confirmation purposes. And, I'm not outing the message either. If the sender wants to say what they sent to me that's their prerogative. It was no big secret and nothing great and game changing so there's no need whatsoever; it was just one person's thoughts about the game I'm not going to violate that. Also, I'm fairly certain the sender of the message is on your town list and is someone I very strongly believe to be town as well; that's pretty much all I'm going to say about that.

This reads to me as: "look at how protown I'm being - I'm leaving everything up for the discussion of the town like a good townsperson would!".
But then also rounds down who the person could be by saying that they're on benmage's and her townlists. You know, just for lulz, and with the implication that if we keep asking about it it would be "scummy" as we might be "outing a town!".

Also, Mastin's probably town. I had a town read on Cyber anyway and the Mastin read is just stronger. I don't have a whole lot of experience with Mastin, but when we played in GvE together and he thought I was a member of the opposing scum team, he didn't come after me like this. The most of what he said was that I was terribad, but wouldn't really elaborate. The way he went after snifit so strongly reminds me nothing of how he behaved as mafia. And no, meta's not everything, but his tone is completely different. I'm not sure about when he jumped off his suspicions, my minds a bit hazy right now, so I'll need to look at that again...hopefully tomorrow.

I also need to look at snifit closer, his most recent post read really genuine, and some of what I had assumed about him was based on Melmond flipping guilty, which he didn't, so re-evaluations are in order. Hopefully I'll feel better tomorrow and can make sense of some things then.

"My mind is a bit hazy now" = another excuse.
And the whole "I need to re-evaluate things because I was sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo sure melmond would be scum" is forced to me.
(also a bonus excuse is tacked on at the end, just in case one per post wasn't enough.

I still have stuff to go through in this game. I'm only feeling a little better and have real life work to catch up with before mafia so that will probably be tomorrow.

But real quick - Ill read and think about your mastin stuff later. My head is so foggy I had to read it three times to understand what you were saying.

Ben - my aco read is weird. I can't read players that play like him as he seems like he's half trolling half real playing. I think the pro claim makes him lean town, but the static ness of his reads leans scum. Like his read on you is weird as I think you're pretty strongly town, just infuriating, and his "until someone tells me youre bad at mafia, I'm keeping you as scum" reads really weird. As it is, he's the type of player I'd not be able to find a reason not to vote for if not for the pgo thing.

"Oh noes - mah head is foggy!". Yup - another excuse.
And also remember how I mentioned earlier how if she finds it too hard to fake a read she will just copy someone else or say they are "weird" which doesn't mean anything? Yeah, she does that here with aco.

I cannot wait to find out why it is that Benmage knows what he thinks he knows. If he investigated me he'd know I wasn't scum.

I don't have any partners Benny-Boy, so gathering up people's reads on me or interactions with me or my reads on others are going to get you nowhere but send town on an awful wrong path.

Does this sound like scared scum to anyone else?
(I know you're all over this jason - unless you were joking - in which case you're totally partners with her!)

vote: tammy

[Kublai Khan]

Not sure whether Kublai Khan is lying and thus gets lynched as a liar, but whatever, I'd rather lynch him as scum. u scum with these ppl?

That's your entire case against Benmage? A single sentence half a game ago about how he's not that great, therefore scum?

How is you popping in every few days saying "my vote is lonely" not active lurking and prod-dodging?

[Kublai Khan]

@ThAdmiral - So is the messenger town/third party? Because claiming "I got a message" isn't a viable long term strategy for scum.

[mykonian]

Not sure whether Kublai Khan is lying and thus gets lynched as a liar, but whatever, I'd rather lynch him as scum. u scum with these ppl?

That's your entire case against Benmage? A single sentence half a game ago about how he's not that great, therefore scum?

How is you popping in every few days saying "my vote is lonely" not active lurking and prod-dodging?

if you know, why isn't your vote there?

[ThAdmiral]

@ThAdmiral - So is the messenger town/third party? Because claiming "I got a message" isn't a viable long term strategy for scum.

Messenger is probably town - tammy got a message and is revealing it without naming the source because this is the most "town" thing to do, and if she doesn't the messenger may have thought something was off.
That's my theory.

[Yates]

Especially since Tammy and mastin2, two players whom I've notoriously beaten as scum, are saying that I read as town

In fairness, I can't give your "Tammy calls me Town so obviously I'm Town" argument much credence because I have also duped her with ease. Although, maybe I should because that would make me conf-Town as well, right? [<3 Tammy!]

You don't find it strange that Kise has yet to list a single town-read? Kinda feels like scum keeping their options open, doesn't it?

Meh. I don't have a ton of Town reads either. I think that's fairly common for

Town

wanting to keep their options open as well. It could be scummy, I suppose, but it is equally indicative of a Townie that simply doesn't trust anyone. Also, I have gotten into the habit of allowing players to defend themselves so I don't defend an incorrect Town read and get burned for it. As scum, I've used that tactic to tie a nearly unlynchable Townie to my destiny so I avoid it like the plague. To that effect, this isn't me defending Kise so much as challenging your logic on a case, which I think is a distinction worth making clear.

In all MY games with you [ThAd], I've never seen you defend a town read that blatantly. And I've seen you bus and buddy before as scum.

This is exactly what I mean, btw.

Kise may very well be scum, but not for the reasons you have outlined so far. The level of scumminess you are attributing to these actions is actually scummier to me than the points you made against Kise if I were to buy them.

Now I have to read the rest of this thread and look at the Tammy stuff ThAd just brought up.

[zabriel]

So posturing-Tammy is the theory.

I don't know about that. If we see a friendly neighbor or some such role die anytime soon I'd say it's pretty likely, but right now it seems reaching to me.

[Yates]

Messenger is probably town

I agree that messenger is likely Town. So why would you want Tammy to out a Townie?

This does bring up some questions, though:
1. Why did Tammy get the message?
2. Is she linked to the messenger somehow?
3. Did the messenger choose her?
4. If the messenger chose her, why TAMMY?

These are rhetorical questions, btw. I see that with this player base I need to be clear about that. As I answer these questions for myself, I come up with Tammy being MORE likely to be Town, not less.

[Yates]

Ready to vote ThAd?

Actually, I'm coming around on this. His push on Tammy is looking more and more fabricated. I'm not liking KK's case on Kise but I'm liking ThAd's case on Tammy even less. Obviously there's some confirmation bias there in that I think Tammy is probably Town and ThAd pushing on prob-Town looks really bad.

This is another game where I have like one or two Town reads and pretty much anyone else can be scum.

I am willing to lynch from this pool [in no particular order]:
ThAd
KK
AP
BC

[mastin2]

All it took was snif cursing to get him to back off

False. I unvoted because Benmage voted. Snifit ninja'd me when I was typing my post; I didn't even read it 'til after I re-hit submit.

---

pidgey/mastin/zabriel/zoroaster/kise/nero/acosmist

Myk, bluntly, I'm town.
Zoro's town thanks to AV.
Aco's town.
Nero's town.

That leaves pidgey, zab, and kise in your suspect list. Kise is being wagoned, the others aren't.
[hr90[/hr]

While mastin is playing confidently, he's at the same time planning how to go on in the next days.

Nah. My plan's to get NK'd.
And as you yourself know, I never intend to outlive my scumbuddies, anyway. I have a 0% winrate as last-remaining-scum.
But you're right on one point--Tammy's meta reason for clearing me isn't very good. In multiscum games, my scumplay is actually at its closest to my townplay as it can be.

/caught up. The fact that most of my scumreads have scumreads on the other scumreads is really unnerving me, so I guess I need to read the game.