Kingmaker II-Game Over

[ShadowLurker]

Unvote pablito

Vote Phoebus and Mert

[Glork]

Dude, four people picked up on the fact that PJ is making a huuuuuge deal about how he was scum last time and "isn't" this time around. It's pretty obvious to me that PJ has been pushing the notion a bit too hard.

The fact of the matter is that it's a little ridiculous to be trying to predict scum behavior here based on last time around. If you want PJ's thoughts on last game, look here. Note how much of that

doesn't apply this time around

. Undobutedly, we will have some different Assassins. We have a different Kingmaker Successsion system, and we have NO POWER ROLES. (I would argue that a Hero is not a "power role.") I'm freely willing to concede that there may be some rough parallels. But the fact that just about every third post of PJ's is "I was scum last time, and I tried this, so I would expect everyone to do so" is either flawed or misleading.



And by "non-comment," Amelia obviously means "placeholder side-comment." It appears as though Amelia plans on elaborating in the near future. Give her the chance to do so.
(Sorry if I stepped on your toes, 'Slay... I just wanted to share my side of the story.)

[Thok]

Um, then why wouldn't she just say comment? It seems like a weird choice of wording, as though she was essentially admitting she was going to make some sort of active lurking comment that didn't say anything.

My first thought on reading PJ's big post wasn't "He's trying to promote that he's protown this time", it was "Wow, that's a bunch of good ideas for us to think about." He didn't have to post any of those comments at all. There's also a lack of symmetry; I've probably been implicitly hinting at the usefulness of my protown experience from last game as much as PJ's been hinting at the usefulness of his scum experience from last tme, but there's was no parallel jump on me as there was on PJ.

[Vaughn]

Your defense of PJ is striking me as funny, Thok. I feel that PJ should've answered to our suspicions, but you answered for him. Interesting, that's all.

I beleive it may be the explicity of which PJ's exclaiming how he was "scum last time, and town this time".

We all know that we all have an equal likelihood to be scum, due to the mod, randomly assigning roles to everyone. Although we appreciate that fact that we can use information and techniques learned from last game in this game, I feel that he shouldn't have to keep on repeating how he was

scum last time

, as if it offers some validity to his arguements for

THIS

game.

[MrBuddyLee]

Vaughn's failure to lurk is a stark difference from last game. He's prolly town.

[vikingfan]

Thok, I can volunteer some thoughts about being scum but it's not that much as I pretty much only showed up for endgame. Basically, when I replaced, I had to choose whether to lynch my scumbuddy Vaughn and hopefully appear more innocent. I would say from that that just because someone lynches an Assassin should not automatically clear them, especially if everyone else is clamoring for it. Unfortunately, I had a claim that made me the next logical lynch and thus I was on the chopping block. But I think it's a good policy to not always trust voting policy, especially since a vote or FOS carries little weight in a votecount. It's much easier for scum to vote each other or not vote each other and have it sail by.

[Ameliaslay]

Okay, my thoughts: which are catching me up from page three.. so don't grump!

And by "non-comment," Amelia obviously means "placeholder side-comment." It appears as though Amelia plans on elaborating in the near future. Give her the chance to do so.
(Sorry if I stepped on your toes, 'Slay... I just wanted to share my side of the story.)

That was exactly what I was saying... Thankyou for not misinterpreting!

Um, then why wouldn't she just say comment? It seems like a weird choice of wording, as though she was essentially admitting she was going to make some sort of active lurking comment that didn't say anything.

I thought you'd appreciate the fact that I'm intending to post, and wouldn't be posting just because you called me out or whatever.. but essentially twas a placeholder..

On PJ: Pretty much I'm in the same position as he is, I'm having to think about things from a different angle, because as he said " I spent pretty much an entire day trying to think of a system so that scum could manipulate the voting to some degree, while trying to present such an idea so that it would sound pro-town."
I do however like the idea of having some limits on the king and I honestly like the system he proposes to hold himself to.
I like the LoE

"I don't need to vote because my vote doesn't matter anyways." I hate this. Hate, hate, hate. Why would you sign up for a game if you aren't going to play? Votes are an essential tool in scum-hunting: refusing to use that tool is not helping the town. I want everybody participating and voting, no questions asked.

it might actually be in our favor if they happen kill off a kingmaker who already looked pro-town, and then if a person who looks less clearly pro-town will become kingmaker, which would hopefully let the town avoid a mislynch and get information in the process about who tried to lynch the kingmaker.

But wouldn't whomever it was that tried to lynch the kingmaker be semi-justified if it wasn't clear that the kingmaker were pro-town?



I whole-heartedly agree with this, but I think I'm going to be a little conservative with my votes regardless. I really don't like MoS's attitude toward the voting process though. I think if you don't vote you can't be nailed down for one opinion or another- even if we take notes on his posts he could always downplay suspicions because of their non-concreteness.

[quote="cbox"It’s possible that both pablito and glork are scum. The idea is that pablito is the over-eager mafia, trying to support his pal. Glork knows how to play, and therefore doesn’t want the obvious attention and association, whether he is scum or not.[/quote]
Something about this, I just really didn't like... something really sounds off in the way he phrased that... especially when followed with this..

So, overall, I would suggest executing pablito, and if he is confirmed scum (is their role revealed when they are killed?) i guess glork would be next. Obviously I'm not completely sure about any of them.

ooh and then there was this bit of post, voting Glork because he was told to..

The reason I'm not voting for Glork at this point is that the only situations suggested to me by their actions are that either both of them are townies, pablito is scum and glork is townie, or both are scum. Is it all right if I just kind of FOS Glork at this point? Actually, I'll Vote: Glork for presure, and then take it off .

However, I recognize the attitude behind this post, so that slightly diffuses my sentiment on the other posts, so I'll just

FOS:cbox

there's really not much else I can say in my defense that i didn't say already, so I'll just be quiet for now.

Now, all of these are mistakes that newbies seem to make all the time no matter what their alignment, so I'm not going to vote for you just yet. But in general, those are all things that you should never do; they don't help, they just hurt the town and make it more likely you'll be lynched, and I think that you just moved up on everyone's list of suspicion, including mine, because of them.

Precisely why I myself didn't add a vote, and Yos puts all the stuff about being a newb and how not to act so nicely..

if, after you lynch me, i'm a townie, just please, like, examine mrbuddylee. he's kind of obnoxious

*rofl

I agree with the trying to keep the Kingmaker as hidden as possible; I was making this argument even before the endgame justification in Kingmaker I. I'd prefer that scum doesn't get a chance to kill a kingmaker who's good at his job in hopes of replacing him with a less talented kingmaker. (IMOMNBTK

I didn't really read the endgame of I, so I'd never really thought about it like that... I honestly couldn't ever think of the Kingmaker as a very important confirmable person. I'm glad you brought that out, that makes it a lot clearer in my mind..

Good stuff. I 95% believe your sincerity in making that statement. I 5% think you should be strapped to a lightning rod and tasered for trying to subtly brainwash us into thinking you're town.

I mainly just thought this funny.. twasn't trying to reinforce the idea.. but it did kinda niggle in the back of my mind, but again I see where PJ's coming from and so I don't really doubt his sincerity.....

[Twomz]

Hey, are there even any Pros to outing the kingmaker? How does it help the town? Just curious.

PJ, could we have at least a preliminary LoE up by this coming Friday? I think it would help move the discussion along, and focus the analysis of the town, instead of spreading it out amounst 10 or so players.

Does anyone have any lingering questions about the setup and how the selection process works? (both official, and todays LoE method from PJ) I don't want anyone saying later on that they're sorry that they made a mistake because they didn't understand the setup. (i'm not sure why, but it popped into my head to ask this... hm)

[ChannelDelibird]

Hey, are there even any Pros to outing the kingmaker? How does it help the town? Just curious.

Unless some idiot tries to fake-claim Kingmaker, it does mean that we're sure that person is town and therefore we can focus our lynch elsewhere (this should only happen if the kingmaker gets heavily bandwagoned/close to execution). However I'd rather not out the Kingmaker, as that's not a huge help.

I'm putting together some of my thoughts. Will post them all in a nice shiny post a bit later on.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Vaughn's failure to lurk is a stark difference from last game. He's prolly town.

Vaughn lurks as town, too

[MrBuddyLee]

*takes a wrench to MoS's sarcasm-detector*

[ChannelDelibird]

All right, here’s my take on stuff since my second-to-most-recent post.

There's really not much else I can say in my defense that i didn't say already, so I'll just be quiet for now. As long as I can. I know there are a lot of posts and theres huge flooding, but please read my entire post and think about it.

If you’ve nothing to add to your defense, then post about something else. You’re not the only one being talked about and this seems to me like an excuse to lurk.

jeez... i have to explain like every little thing. i swear i'm not going to say anything for a while. I'm not even going to check the thread... la lala la laaaa....

Now it gets worse.

fine. lynch me. if, after you lynch me, i'm a townie, just please, like, examine mrbuddylee. he's kind of obnoxious. if town wins, i'll count it as a win for me even if i'm lynched in the first round.

honestly, i trust pj to make the right descision. and actually read what i write. i admit i made factual errors in my earlier posts. i know i'm easy to bandwagon. no self-respecting mafia player would NOT vote for me. Sorry for distracting everybody during the first round and wasting a lynch.

Unvote: All.

You’re not lynched yet. Giving up does not help your case, and if you are a townie then it doesn’t help the town win.

I’m not voting

My views on this are wholeheartedly in accordance with the following post:

Well, I won't "deal with" you not voting. The only thing voting does in this game is give pro-town people information. It gives both the king and the kingmaker direct, easy to find and interpret information about who most of the town finds scummy and who most of the town trusts at any given point in time, both of which are absolutly vital to the town's chances of winning the game. It gives us a clear, easy to follow record of what you think, have thought, and have done during the course of the game. It lets us see who voted for who, when, and why.

Voting gives the town information the town NEEDS to have, and without the normal risks of speedlynches or accidental hammers or such. So refusing to vote is actually an even MORE anti-town action in this game then it would be in a normal game, because in a normal game scum have some solid reasons to vote; here, they have less.

So I think at this point I'm going to continue voting for you, MOS, until you make at least one vote.

…apart from the me voting MoS bit, which I am not and don’t feel is necessary yet. If MoS continues to refuse to vote, that opinion will change.

Any day where the King is scum is likely a lost day anyways. In that case you might as well point out why he is scum; maybe you can convince town to have such a scum test a hero claim or try to execute a likely partner.

I hadn’t thought of doing that in a scum-king situation, but I’m glad you did.

Good thing I’m not scum this game, like last time (this is paraphrased)

FoS: Petroleumjelly

No need to keep letting us know. It sounds like you’re anxious.

Urgh.

Vote: MBL, box, pablito

I have not read the first kingmaker.
I do not have cases against these people.
I do not know whether I will be building cases.
I play by gut.

Wake me up when September ends.

And yes, I'm reading.
Or attempting.
Skimming?

Urgh.

Is Phoebus always like this? I found this…strange.

So we have MoS saying he won't vote, but his suspicions will be laid out in full and we should take note of his words rather than his voting pattern. Then, on the other hand, we have Phoebus saying he plays by gut and may not bother making cases against people, leaving only his votes to indicate his thoughts.

That's quite a tag-team.

Vote: Mert

for trying to tie two players together, however subtly.

[spectrumvoid]

I'm a little confused on who to comment on at the moment, since there're so many of us, and so many accusations + votes. King can you do a list?

I'm just going to comment on what I think were the more imortant ones.

I agree with everything said in the above post of CDB's about box and what Ameliaslay said about him in 181, so my vote on him stays.

@box: Oh. I thought kingmaker and heros weren't townies.

MBL: It's hard to do metagaming in mafia, unless Vaughn ALWAYS lurks when he's mafia and is active when he's pro-town. He could just be adopting a different playstyle. Hence, I don't buy what you said post 179. (Also referred to MMOS post 184).

@Twomz: No lingering questions. But thanks for asking.

About the PJ issue. While I don't think his comments that he's town this game are that scummy, I'm worried that the people who poked at it are using it as an excuse to accuse him.

[Mert]

Vote: Mert

for trying to tie two players together, however subtly.

I wasn't trying to tie them together so much as point out that their respective attitudes would be a pain for the town. I was more indicating that the two extremes are bad for the town and that the middleground is where I think it'd be best for people to be.

Can see how it'd look like I was marrying the two together though, just know that it wasn't my intention.

[Yosarian2]

I don't really see how trying to tie people together is a scum tell anyway; it's a perfectly reasonable way of trying to find scum.

Clearly I'm suspicious of Twomz, Vaughn, and Ameliaslay. In the future, don't expect me to be this nice about it, either. I will not go around saying "I suspect so-and-so". That's where the whole reading of my posts thing comes into play. Next time do your homework, kthnxbai.

It was not all that clear from those posts that you suspected those people, MOS. Just because I disagree with a point someone makes does not automatically mean I suspect them. And it's still not clear which one you suspect more, and your posts are certanly not going to put any pressure on any of them or get them to respond or defed themselves in any way, and it didn't even get me to take a closer look at them or anything like that, so I must say that as a scum-hunting technique, your one-liner responses without votes seems pretty worthless.

If you're not going to vote, you should at least "fos" or something, and I can't imagine why you wouldn't want to even just clearly state "I am currently suspicious Twomz". Do you really think everyone is going to sit down and pore through every one of your posts to try to get some kind of hint as to what MOS might or might not be thinking?

I don't see how the way you're playing here could possibly help the town in any way, or how it could possibly find scum. Especally in a game where the town has no information roles, if you're not going to help the town find scum during the day, you're going to have to die.

[Phoebus]

vote: Mert

[pablito]

@MBL, I see votes from Glork, me, pj, ubertimmy and Phoebus.

PJ unvoted.
Phoebus goes on gut, which I can respect.
ubertimmy doesn't say anything at all, so I have nothing to go off of, but right now I'm calling it more annoying than scummy. But for all the flak MOS is getting, ubertimmy deserves an equal amount.
and Glork, well Glork and I have a rocky relationship right now so my thoughts on him are going to be biased. But I don't think his vote on you was scummy, he justified his first vote well.

As for me feeling awkward. Your stance on cbox is attacking him on a different level of logic that cbox was using. You make it seem that he has some sinister evil mad scientist intent with all of his statements when cbox had relied more on his gut and emotions to lead his suspicions. He put urgency and prematurely attached action to his suspicions (which is wrong, as we've all pointed out), but I don't htink it's inconsistent with his thought process. You point out many of cbox's inaccurate statements but took it as intentional lying rather than unintentional misrepresentation. In your first attack on cbox you point out how cbox has said so many false things time after time in the same post. You expressed some doubt when you mention

Simply careless as hell, or scum hunting baby bunnies with a shotgun?

But with all the intent and thorough analysis that you used when countering cbox, you didn't thoroughly speculate that cbox might have just been careless (which is what I did). The way you present your argument seemed very calculated, but I sense that you were very biased when coming up with your argument. I feel that you added the above quote more to show that you hadn't forgotten that there's a possible opposite viewpoint of your own, but I don't think you had really took it as a possibility.

I don't know, I just feel that you, MBL, were arguing on the wrong level to incriminate cbox. That made me feel awkward.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I don't really see how trying to tie people together is a scum tell anyway; it's a perfectly reasonable way of trying to find scum.

Clearly I'm suspicious of Twomz, Vaughn, and Ameliaslay. In the future, don't expect me to be this nice about it, either. I will not go around saying "I suspect so-and-so". That's where the whole reading of my posts thing comes into play. Next time do your homework, kthnxbai.

It was not all that clear from those posts that you suspected those people, MOS. Just because I disagree with a point someone makes does not automatically mean I suspect them. And it's still not clear which one you suspect more, and your posts are certanly not going to put any pressure on any of them or get them to respond or defed themselves in any way, and it didn't even get me to take a closer look at them or anything like that, so I must say that as a scum-hunting technique, your one-liner responses without votes seems pretty worthless.

If you're not going to vote, you should at least "fos" or something, and I can't imagine why you wouldn't want to even just clearly state "I am currently suspicious Twomz". Do you really think everyone is going to sit down and pore through every one of your posts to try to get some kind of hint as to what MOS might or might not be thinking?

I don't see how the way you're playing here could possibly help the town in any way, or how it could possibly find scum. Especally in a game where the town has no information roles, if you're not going to help the town find scum during the day, you're going to have to die.

dying is fun

[cardb0ardb0x]

I don't think there's any good reason to out the kingmaker. Kingmakers don't gain any information greater than that held by a normal townie. They can't tell the town anything that useful, other than, "um, i'm the kingmaker, don't lynch me?"

I've kind of been thinking this for a while, but was distracted by defending myself. bird1111's actions don't make a whole lot of sense to me. He seemed to be putting serious thought into voting for pablito/glork. However, once a few things happened (I attracted unwanted attention to that combo, I had voted for them both with bad logic, and bird1111 was questioned about his votes) he immediately played them off as "joke votes."

I still don't really understand pablito's play either, saying that he will defend Glork "to the bone" early on. However, he's kind of defending me in a similar manner... is this something he does normally? no offense, i appreciate the help, i'm just wondering.

I still feel like mrbuddylee's attacks on me were a little too vehement and opportunistic. he discovered factual errors and poor logic in my posting, which i suppose would, in the eyes of mafia, make me a really easy lynch. But i could suspect this of anyone voting for me of the same thing, so it's really nothing unique. For example, spectrumvoid voted for me inbetween the time period Mcqueso posted the vote count where I had 6 votes plus an asterisk, and when petroleumjelly unvoted me. Whatever.

[petroleumjelly]

...I feel that PJ should've answered to our suspicions...

There is really not much to answer to. The fact is, I was scum in the original game, and I am town in this game. That's it. There's nothing to 'defend' in that statement. I am most certainly not going to

avoid

saying "I am town" (or equivalent statements) on the basis that a few people might take the opportunity to jump on me for it. The

purpose

of my statement was not to "trick" people into thinking I am town, but to point out that I am playing this game with a completely new state of mind, with the experience of having

been

scum in a game with similar mechanics. And

from

that experience, I hope I will be able to stop scum strategies in their tracks by either pre-empting them or calling them out as I see them happening, which in turn (I hope) will make me valuable to the town.

Also, Glork, you

know

that that link to the Kingmaker discussion thread is not even close all of my "thoughts on last game". Those were simply my thoughts on

specific issues

brought up by BMQ in dealing with the

mechanics

of the game. I never really went into strategies I pursued as scum (excepting for dealing with the confirmed innocents problem, and the scum's perspective on Hero claims). In fact,

FoS: Glork

, for that and:

1.) I was not making a "huuuuuuuge deal" of being town, it only became "huge" after about four or five people jumped on it.
2.) If you really wanted people to know what I was thinking as scum last game, you would also have included a link to the night discussion I posted at the end of the the original game. For those interested, here is a LINK to that. It becomes pretty clear that I was the most central scum in that game, and that my being executed pretty much led to the annihilation of the rest of the scum that game. It also becomes clear that I had set strategies on how to deal with

every

person in the game: to even compare the Kingmaker discussion thread to how I strategized is almost insulting.
3.) Glork has shown practically no interest in actually hunting for scum in this game. I agree with him that there should not be a "high bar" placed on him because of his performance in the original game, but I

am

going to place the "average bar" for him.
4.) I am not the most thick-skinned mafia player around, and I am actually becoming upset with Glork's continual comments along the lines of:

Let's hope he's [PJ's] not scum this time. <.<

Heh... at this point, I'm just trying to decide which n00b didn't make *ME* the king.

Bastard. If I could kill you, I would.

Hey, PJ. Laces out. I gots my eyeballs on you, buddy boy.

So next time you're going to say nothing, don't waste valuable pixel space, just say it and be proud damnit. No need to hide the fact that you're brave enough to stand up to King PJ and his attackdog Glork and not willing to knuckle under to their unreasonable demands.

How dare you insinuate that I am a subordinate of PJ. I've been cutting PJ's head off for six years. He's my play-toy, and he knows it.

Glork saying how he has been catching me for six years, how I am his play toy, how he should be King and not me, and his apparent attempt at intimidating me by saying he has his eyeballs on me, is all playing on me emotionally. Glork

knows

that I become emotionally attached to Kingmaker I, and his continual references to him having executed me in that game are only distracting me from

this

game, because I honestly get depressed thinking about the original game.

I can't tell if Glork is purposely trying to make me become emotional, but I will ask him to stop making snide comments at my expense.

As it is, I am amused to see I am not the only person who claims to be seeing this game through a new set of eyes:

On PJ: Pretty much I'm in the same position as he is, I'm having to think about things from a different angle, because as he said " I spent pretty much an entire day trying to think of a system so that scum could manipulate the voting to some degree, while trying to present such an idea so that it would sound pro-town."

I mainly just thought this funny.. twasn't trying to reinforce the idea.. but it did kinda niggle in the back of my mind, but again I see where PJ's coming from and so I don't really doubt his sincerity.....

*****

In fact, here is possible scum strategy #1:

like one thing I don't get, is that if we wanted a confirmed innocent to make the choice everytime, wouldn't we just have the KingMaker claim and direct the king? even if they kill the KMer, it's not like we're going to lose anything since we'd just get a new one.

And if scum counterclaim KMer, all we'd have to do is get the KMer a list of 2 people to appoint as King/Backup and the CounterClaimer a list of 2 other people to appoint and when the next day dawns we'll know which side was lying and be able to execuete accordingly.

It's not like we can run out of Kingmakers!

Hey, are there even any Pros to outing the kingmaker? How does it help the town? Just curious.

People who ask for immature claims, for whatever reason, are more likely to be scum. In the original, Broomhead asked for a confirmed Mason to come out to direct the King's execution (since it would be a guaranteed innocent directing the execution). Broomhead was scum. Everything would just be easier if nobody asked for Kingmaker or Hero claims unless there is a set strategical advantage: there is no point in "narrowing down" possible scum in such a manner, because if the Kingmaker is under threat of execution, they will claim, the threat will go away, and the town will be able to analyze who pushed on the wagon in the first place.

*****

Vote: Phoebus

, I am not liking the coincidental nature of his votes.

Urgh.

Vote: MBL, box, pablito

I have not read the first kingmaker.
I do not have cases against these people.
I do not know whether I will be building cases.
I play by gut.

Wake me up when September ends.

As it happens, this was the sixth vote on MBL, the seventh vote on Cb0x, and the sixth vote on Pablito. This post was simply jumping on the three people with the biggest wagons, on the basis of "gut".

vote: Mert

And this post was the fourth vote on Mert, which was the largest wagon that Phoebus was not on. Right now, Phoebus' vote is on all four of the largest bandwagons, and all of it on "gut". I would like to hear more explanations for his votes.

[cardb0ardb0x]

well, what you're saying about phoebus does make sense and his votes do seem telling. however, it's possible phoebus has an explanation, or just voted for whoever looked the most obviously suspicious in their posts, so I'll FoS: phoebus until he can come up with a response.

Don't forget that phoebus hadn't posted until page 7. Is that scummy, a sign of townie non-interest, or a non-issue?

[Glork]

I don't want you to become emotional. I want you to execute yourself. Or a Hero.

Seriously, though.... The reasons for my early comments are very simple, PJ. I want to see how you behave. I want to see how you react to someone who knows you probably better than anyone else playing the game. Rarely am I a "nice" player. I know that our personalities and our playstyles clash sometimes, but if I can get info out of somebody, I'm going to do it more often than not. (Also, the "If I could kill you, I would" comment was directed at the Kingmaker.) Players tend to show stronger tells when placed under pressure. I'm merely applying that kid of pressure to you, to see how you react.


But if you want a sugar-coated version of what I've been trying to say, here's the best you're going to get: I'm aware that if you are pro-town here, you'll be coming from a different perspective. While that perspective can be used to find scum, you wouldn't be helping your case by over-stating it right now, and making a big deal out of scum strategies. The fact that everyone (including the assassin killer dudes) can read your thoughts invalidates many of the scum-thought tactics you could have hoped to use. That's why I avoided the full-night-thoughts you posted, and posted your BMQ-directed thoughts. At any rate, I found myself questioning the wisdom of your actions. They don't seem to have much benefit for the town, since (as I mentioned before) different scumgroups under different setups (despite similar game mechanics) will inherently behave differently. On the other hand, they could have a much larger benefit for scumbags, if we get into a "scum should strategize as such" mindset and end up being tricked/mislead (either by scumbags or by ourselves/each other). That's what led me to suspect you. The fact that you reiterated your "changed perspective," in my mind, was a little over-the-top. It's like you wanted to drill into our heads that you know how scum should think, and that you should be directing the town. I don't like having one person push their influence on everyone else (unless

I'm

the one pushing

my

influence).



Regarding the "huuuuge" deal thing: Obviously, I was using hyperbole to get my point across. But the fact that three or four other players -- each of which I consider a competent, intelligent poster/player -- picked up on the

exact same thing

adds up. And it oftentimes means something. Definitely noteworthy, and definitely something worth looking into.

Finally.... No intrest in hunting scum this game? I suggest you look at my posts more closely, sir. Somewhat similarly to MoS, I don't plan on making extended, clear-cut cases against people I suspect. Read between the lines.



Anyway, I guess I'll

Unvote: CTD, MBL

. Votes on PJ and Pablito stand. Though I'd like you both to know that, outside of Mafia games, I wubs you both very very much. <3

[Glork]

Don't forget that phoebus hadn't posted until page 7. Is that scummy, a sign of townie non-interest, or a non-issue?

I think it's more a sign of "this game got off to a blazing start."


Two cents.

[BrianMcQueso]

Vote Count!

*King petroleumjelly* (1): Bird1111, Phoebus

Ameliaslay (1):
bird1111 (4*):
cardb0ardb0x (7):
ChannelDelibird (1): cardb0ardb0x, Mert
CrashTextDummie (1): Glork, pablito, bird1111
Dead Rikimaru (0):
Fritzler (1):
Glork (2): PetroleumJelly, pablito
Machiavellian-Mafia (0): pablito
Mastermind of Sin (2):
Mert (4): cardb0ardb0x, Mastermind of Sin, bird1111
MrBuddyLee (4): cardb0ardb0x, Glork
pablito (5): bird1111, MrBuddyLee, Mert
Phoebus (3*): MrBuddyLee, cardb0ardb0x, pablito, Mert
PookyTheMagicalBear (0):
ShadowLurker (0): cardb0ardb0x, Twomz, Phoebus, Mert
spectrumvoid (1): cardb0ardb0x, Phoebus
Thok (0): Fritzler, Ameliaslay
Twomz (1): Yosarian2, cardb0ardb0x, CrashTextDummie
UberTimmy: ChannelDelibird, MrBuddyLee, spectrumvoid
Vaughn (0):
vikingfan (0): pablito
Yosarian2 (1): Mastermind of Sin

[Twomz]

Hmm... until PJs last post i'd just assumed Phoebus was "busy" not "scummy"... but since he brought up the fact that he's just voted for the larger wagons... well...

vote: phoebus

.

Although, i still think we need to combine our efforts and concentrate on 3-5 people...

I'll post some more in a couple of hours. I need to head back to college.