Kingmaker II-Game Over

[Mastermind of Sin]

Nope. It's not antitown, either. It's just how I feel. And I don't feel like voting. Also, I'm not assuming that your opinion is meaningless, I just

don't

care

. For those of you skimmers who use votes to keep track of shit, then you can assume that I find no one scummy, if it makes you happy. If you want to know who I think is scum, you'll actually have to read my posts. If you want a quick reference of what I thought, take notes on what I say. It'll be better for you in the end.

Yes, we can keep track of what you have said without you voting, but it will be harder, and it'll be harder to tell when something was a big deal to you and when you were just making observations. In any case, it'd be damn hard for a king to figure out what the town is thinking without people voting. Let's say you say "Yos is looking scummy", then 5 pages later say "Glork is looking scummy", then later you say "Ameliaslay, you just misrepresented Yosarian". Now think of everyone in the town saying things like that but not voting. Do you really think any king would be able to get an idea of what the town in general thought? Would anyone really feel the need to defend themself?

Voting costs the town nothing, and it gives all kinds of useful information that will help us catch scum. Therefore, voting is a pro-town action.

so? Does it look like I'm trying to make myself look protown?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Box. I'm not buying the newbieness. Playing on emotion is a scum-tell. Claiming when not under pressure is a scum-tell. Giving up is a scum-tell.

vote: cardb0ardb0x.

MMOS: no one is asking for you to conform to anybody. All we're asking is for you to vote. If you don't use your vote, we won't know what we're thinking. If you don't care, why the heck are you playing mafia? And why do we have to take notes on what you say? Pro-town players should make an effort to help the town obviously.

FOS: Ameliaslay and Vaughn for trying to overplay what MBL said about PJ.

I meant that I won't comment on the differences between the previous game and this one since I wasn't in it.

I don't have to care what you think to play mafia...

As for the notes, a) they'll help you be a better player, and b) since people are complaining that it'll be harder to track my suspicions, if you take notes it'll be easier

[Phoebus]

Urgh.

Vote: MBL, box, pablito

I have not read the first kingmaker.
I do not have cases against these people.
I do not know whether I will be building cases.
I play by gut.

Wake me up when September ends.

[Phoebus]

And yes, I'm reading.
Or attempting.
Skimming?

Urgh.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

I don't need votes to tell you who's scum, and I'm certainly not going to conform to anyone's wishes but my own. If you have a problem with it, I guess it sucks to be you.

If you want to know who I think is scum, you'll actually have to read my posts. If you want a quick reference of what I thought, take notes on what I say. It'll be better for you in the end.

I don't have to care what you think to play mafia...

As for the notes, a) they'll help you be a better player, and b) since people are complaining that it'll be harder to track my suspicions, if you take notes it'll be easier

It's kind of interesting that you keep saying everyone needs to read your posts and take notes to find out who you suspect, yet you have not written about any suspicions in any of your posts yet.

[Mert]

So we have MoS saying he won't vote, but his suspicions will be laid out in full and we should take note of his words rather than his voting pattern. Then, on the other hand, we have Phoebus saying he plays by gut and may not bother making cases against people, leaving only his votes to indicate his thoughts.

That's quite a tag-team.

[MrBuddyLee]

Sequence of events:

1) I post a pretty reasonable attack on cbox. Like eleventy billion lines of juicy text to analyze.

2) cbox posts a lot of content in response, including a fair amount of boo-hoo.

3) Three people vote me in the following 24 hrs with

nary a word

about my attack or their opinion of cbox.

Pathetic. This is a mountainous game guys. Your vote means very little, especially seeing as how you can sprinkle a dozen of them like apple seeds across the countryside.

[spectrumvoid]

vote: phoebus

Yep, phoebus is the total opposite of MMOS. But while MMOS claims to think that we can look through his posts to make notes anyway (which is something that I do to everyone anyway whether they vote or not), Phoebus claims to play by gut. While I know that isn't a strong scummy behaviour, it makes it easier for him to randomly accuse others to create confusion (because he won't state cases).

MMOS: I'd say that voting in this game is more 'lenient', as in I feel free-er to vote now since there's so many of us, and only the king's vote will execute. Normally, I always hesistate to vote just in case scum jumps on the bandwagon. So I don't see why you are not voting.

[spectrumvoid]

I forgot to add something else. I'll try to be as active as I can in this game, but it's really difficult when I post just before I sleep, and I have 3-4 pages to go through the moment I wake up... Blame my +8 timezone. I'll try my best to cope, but I may ask for a replacement if the post flood continues and it becomes a major problem.

To whoever commented on Glork: Glork always plays this way. Whatever game he's in. Kinda like raj I think.

[spectrumvoid]

I went to check what 'mountainous' means. It isn't really true, since we don't know whether we have a hero. Sorry for the post flood now.

[Fritzler]

OMGUS VOTE: CRASHTEXTDUMMIE

good posting

[Fritzler]

pj, why isn't crash text dummie dead yet?
he's obviously scum

i thought we were friends...

[ubertimmy]

Vote: spectrumvoid

[Twomz]

vote: Crashtextdummie

to satiate (?) Fritzes violent tendencies. (and because I saw no reason not to vote him from his posts... although I didn't see anything specific that made me want to vote him by itself)

[pablito]

Actually, MBL, I was waiting and delaying my response to you. I just wanted to see if you'd persist. And you have. Still doesn't warrant my unvote or my response yet. But I have given you my defense of cbox, and the fact that you lead the charge against him should suffice as a reason for now. I will address "my awkwardness" later when I have more time to post.

vote: Mert

Mert is trying to look like he's some defender of justified voting styles or something when in reality he's just pushing around the stupid wagons that have nothing to do with actual scumminess. He's just pushing suspicion on people who have decided to abandon "traditional voting". Voting by gut, not voting at all and making joke votes aren't inherently scummy (frustrating, though, yes), and they're some wagons that can pick up speed very very fast. The whole argument is about trying to "hide their true intentions" because we have no paper trail. But Mert is also trying to hide his true suspicions by voting cbox - who is way too easy of a vote to show his true suspicions and voting based on a set rule (those who refuse to vote how he votes). I think it's scummy to vote based upon a "rule". And then he tries to pair up MoS and Phoebus which I really don't understand.

[MrBuddyLee]

So, pablito, if your vote on me is justified, what do you think of the ones placed with no justification whatsoever?

[Yosarian2]

so? Does it look like I'm trying to make myself look protown?

So...you don't care if you help the town or not, is what you're saying?

[Glork]

Wake me up when September ends.

That's one of maybe two Green Day songs that I actually like.... [/random fact]

[Mastermind of Sin]

I don't need votes to tell you who's scum, and I'm certainly not going to conform to anyone's wishes but my own. If you have a problem with it, I guess it sucks to be you.

If you want to know who I think is scum, you'll actually have to read my posts. If you want a quick reference of what I thought, take notes on what I say. It'll be better for you in the end.

I don't have to care what you think to play mafia...

As for the notes, a) they'll help you be a better player, and b) since people are complaining that it'll be harder to track my suspicions, if you take notes it'll be easier

It's kind of interesting that you keep saying everyone needs to read your posts and take notes to find out who you suspect, yet you have not written about any suspicions in any of your posts yet.

Wow, you're so full of shit. Clearly you didn't take my advice and actually

read

my posts.

I'm amused by the lengths Twomz is going to to insinuate that I'm trying to stay under the radar. If I was trying to stay under the radar, why the hell would I inform you that I plan to never vote this game unless I become king? That's counterproductive, since the very statement draws attention to this fact.

I'm amused by the lengths Twomz is going to to insinuate that I'm trying to stay under the radar. If I was trying to stay under the radar, why the hell would I inform you that I plan to never vote this game unless I become king? That's counterproductive, since the very statement draws attention to this fact.

You can draw all the attention you want and still be very unhelpful for the town, it's called lurking in plain sight.

Vote: MOS

So? I'm not arguing whether or not it's helpful (that's another debate). I'm arguing that I'm clearly NOT trying to stay under the radar. That, in and of itself, is a ludicrous claim made by someone just trying to stir up suspicion.

MoS, the big red letters and repeated bringing up of your post was meant to counteract that happening. You will be watched if I have anything to say about it... so be forewarned *shakes finger*.

Shadowlurker... try not to assume anything in mafia. But, even if the king is scum, there's nothing he can do except try to hurt the town, or hide himself under the position.

So basically, you admit to contradicting yourself but you don't care. Got it.

It's actually kinda nice knowing the strategies scum will probably try in this game, because I already spent last game trying to think of them. It's pretty interesting being on the other side of the fence this time, I will be curious to see the strategies scum try to use after the game is over.

Good stuff. I 95% believe your sincerity in making that statement. I 5% think you should be strapped to a lightning rod and tasered for trying to subtly brainwash us into thinking you're town.

Glad I'm not the only one who saw that.

My sentiments precisely.

Glad I saw you two trying to play MBL's 5% into something a little bigger than that by reinforcing the idea in everyone's minds.

Clearly I'm suspicious of Twomz, Vaughn, and Ameliaslay. In the future, don't expect me to be this nice about it, either. I will not go around saying "I suspect so-and-so". That's where the whole reading of my posts thing comes into play. Next time do your homework, kthnxbai.

[cardb0ardb0x]

examine mrbuddylee. he's kind of obnoxious.

Awwww, you're so SWEET!

Seriously, though, only Fritzler gets to lynch people around here cause they're obnoxious. People who push for lynches of the "obnoxious" regardless of contribution to the cause are more likely scum.

Sorry if it feels like you're being ganged up on, but your behavior is not pro-town so far. Maybe try changing that instead of surrendering. Give it the old college try.

So who're your scumpartners?

Come on, man, stop quoting me out of context. Here's the actual quote.

if, after you lynch me, i'm a townie, just please, like, examine mrbuddylee. he's kind of obnoxious. if town wins, i'll count it as a win for me even if i'm lynched in the first round.

I don't want to build a rivalry with you, buddylee, i apologized earlier and you're really riding my bandwagon hard.

Why are you claiming?

Claiming when not under pressure is a scum-tell.

Other people have said this too. Here's the deal:

There are only mafia and townies in this game. Everyone in the entire game is trying to claim townie right now. Would someone try to claim mafia? Am I missing something?

(The kingmaker really is just a townie. The hero pretty much is, too.)

Yeah, my "boo hoo" posts were bad, I thought maybe that would be an effective strategy online, and was mixing it up. But I really *did* think it would be very revealing of certain players if I was lynched and thereby confirmed townie.

Cb0x, have you read the original Kingmaker? I am interested to know.

I read the engame report... I don't have the patience to read anything that huge.

Are we going to do a vote count anytime soon? It's tough with this game being 7 pages long already.

[Thok]

Why are you claiming?

Claiming when not under pressure is a scum-tell.

Other people have said this too. Here's the deal:

There are only mafia and townies in this game. Everyone in the entire game is trying to claim townie right now. Would someone try to claim mafia? Am I missing something?

Let me rephrase my question. What do you expect to gain from saying you are a townie? Even if there's no disadvantage to claiming (which I don't think is true), you can't really expect people to suddenly go "Oh my god! carb0ardb0x claimed townie! He's definately not mafia!"

In my mind, your claiming seems to have no advantage, and the possibility of an actual disadvantage.

[MrBuddyLee]

cbox, here's the thing. I don't know your alignment. I'm attacking you because I want to try to discern your alignment. You should see that as a positive development. It's not a rivalry in the least... and if anything I say seems unfair or disproportionate you should point it out in an attempt to discern MY alignment.

There's not really any such thing as a bandwagon in this game either. The King gets to look at the "wagon" on you and decide if it's meritworthy or not. I suspect he'll look more at your words and arguments against you than at the number of votes against you. And if the king makes a bad judgment and chooses to execute you unfairly, as you say that'll provide info not only on the King but also on the people who voted you.

And I didn't really quote you out of context. You called me annoying, which was the most interesting part of both the snippet and the greater quote. I hope in time you'll see a grilling as less annoying and more part of the mafia process.

[Thok]

Thinking about the MBL-Vaughn-Ameliaslay sorta jump on PJ, I realized that we really ought to get Vaughn/Ameliasly/vikingfan to say something about their experiences as scum in Kingmaker I, just to get some possibly different perspective on scum strategies in this sort of game.

I find it weird that Ameliaslay didn't have something to say about PJ's comments but only reacted to MBL's followup (Vaughn at least made some small comments about wagonning before that observation), and I believe that's worth a

vote Ameliaslay

[Ameliaslay]

My non-comment on PJ's thoughts was only post-poned til later this evening, when I take a break from writing this darn paper.

[Thok]

My

non-comment

on PJ's thoughts was only post-poned til later this evening, when I take a break from writing this darn paper.

Huh?

confirm vote Ameliaslay