Kingmaker II-Game Over

[cardb0ardb0x]

Good luck all. Here's to one of my first games on this site.

[cardb0ardb0x]

the first round is always kind of awkward

[cardb0ardb0x]

Here are some of my thoughts.

1) It’s possible that both pablito and glork are scum. The idea is that pablito is the over-eager mafia, trying to support his pal. Glork knows how to play, and therefore doesn’t want the obvious attention and association, whether he is scum or not.

Therefore,

Vote: Pablito

2) MrBuddyLee has been voting for a lot of people with little or no reasoning. In the same vein, he has only asked for other people’s opinions (both yos’s and everyone’s in general) rather than expressing his own. This would also make sense if mrbuddylee, pablito, and glork were all mafia, because MBL also defended glork in a post.

Therefore,

Vote: MrBuddyLee

3) ShadowLurker has similarly been voting with little to no explanation, but I just kind of want to bring it up, it’s not that big an issue. Specifically, he's voted for me, pablito, pooky, and twomz. The one where he votes for me doesn’t really count because it was a standard random vote in his first post, but whatever.

I’m not giving him a vote, though.

4) Also, I’m just generally suspicious of anyone who uses flattery. I forget who did it though.

So, overall, I would suggest executing pablito, and if he is confirmed scum (is their role revealed when they are killed?) i guess glork would be next. Obviously I'm not completely sure about any of them.

[cardb0ardb0x]

yo buddy lee, my bad. I was writing down everyone's votes and I accidentally wrote down the people you were just kind of talking about iin the category where I put people's actual votes. I'd like to say sorry, completely unintentional... I guess where I got it from was in your first post (Post #35) you said

"I think ubertimmy, ChannelDelibird and pablito are scum based on what I've read so far." I should have written that down as "suspicion" or something. But I wrote it down as a vote.

To address ChannelDeliBird's concerns-

"First off, Vote: Cardb0ardb0x for double standards. So your theory is that both pablito and Glork are scum, but you only vote for one of them, despite making it clear that you're aware you can vote for multiple people? Sure, maybe you're not sure they're both scum - but you should at least put some pressure on them both to test the theory."

PetroleumJelly also expressed similar concerns. I'm not latching onto the theory. I was making logical statements and trying to contribute to the game, rather than just kind of milling around and not doing anything.

The reason I'm not voting for Glork at this point is that the only situations suggested to me by their actions are that either both of them are townies, pablito is scum and glork is townie, or both are scum. Is it all right if I just kind of FOS Glork at this point? Actually, I'll

Vote: Glork

for presure, and then take it off

Likewise, as people have told me I shouldn't vote for someone because they vote without explanation (because, apparently, votes don't matter at this point), it seems a tiny bit hypocritical to get on my back because I made a vote *with* an explanation. Should I just not give explanations for my votes? That actually seems a better route for me at this point.

Please just realize I'm just playing like an idiot. A scum probably wouldn't say something blatantly false, for whatever reasons.

I may have missed some points made about me, so please let me know if there's anything else I need to address. Again, sorry MBL. My mistake.

Lastly, to clarify things (CBB and CDB sounds tough) it would be simpler just to refer to me as "box."

[cardb0ardb0x]

Please note that I'm used to real-life mafia, if that makes any sense...

[cardb0ardb0x]

Bah... I knew it. Just doing what I'm told at this point... I only have like a zillion votes on me.

[cardb0ardb0x]

OMGUS: ShadowLurker, although I understand where you're coming from.

[cardb0ardb0x]

come on, guys. please read my explanation in post 84... not just the bold "vote" sign. *obviously* my little vote there wasn't going to get glork lynched, i had just been instructed that people were supposed to vote a lot in this game, to give the king an idea of what everyone's thinking.

There's really not much else I can say in my defense that i didn't say already, so I'll just be quiet for now. As long as I can. I know there are a lot of posts and theres huge flooding, but please read my entire post and think about it.

[cardb0ardb0x]

nonono i'm not voting for them because i was told to. i was already suspecting them, so i was told that the appropriate thing to do was to vote for them.

to keep track: i suspected pablito and glork, but only voted pablito, because i found him more suspicious (please read my previous posts). I was criticized for suspecting both of them but only voting one. So i voted for glork as well.

jeez... i have to explain like every little thing. i swear i'm not going to say anything for a while. I'm not even going to check the thread... la lala la laaaa....

[cardb0ardb0x]

fine. lynch me. if, after you lynch me, i'm a townie, just please, like, examine mrbuddylee. he's kind of obnoxious. if town wins, i'll count it as a win for me even if i'm lynched in the first round.

honestly, i trust pj to make the right descision. and actually read what i write. i admit i made factual errors in my earlier posts. i know i'm easy to bandwagon. no self-respecting mafia player would NOT vote for me. Sorry for distracting everybody during the first round and wasting a lynch.

[cardb0ardb0x]

Unvote: All

.

[cardb0ardb0x]

examine mrbuddylee. he's kind of obnoxious.

Awwww, you're so SWEET!

Seriously, though, only Fritzler gets to lynch people around here cause they're obnoxious. People who push for lynches of the "obnoxious" regardless of contribution to the cause are more likely scum.

Sorry if it feels like you're being ganged up on, but your behavior is not pro-town so far. Maybe try changing that instead of surrendering. Give it the old college try.

So who're your scumpartners?

Come on, man, stop quoting me out of context. Here's the actual quote.

if, after you lynch me, i'm a townie, just please, like, examine mrbuddylee. he's kind of obnoxious. if town wins, i'll count it as a win for me even if i'm lynched in the first round.

I don't want to build a rivalry with you, buddylee, i apologized earlier and you're really riding my bandwagon hard.

Why are you claiming?

Claiming when not under pressure is a scum-tell.

Other people have said this too. Here's the deal:

There are only mafia and townies in this game. Everyone in the entire game is trying to claim townie right now. Would someone try to claim mafia? Am I missing something?

(The kingmaker really is just a townie. The hero pretty much is, too.)

Yeah, my "boo hoo" posts were bad, I thought maybe that would be an effective strategy online, and was mixing it up. But I really *did* think it would be very revealing of certain players if I was lynched and thereby confirmed townie.

Cb0x, have you read the original Kingmaker? I am interested to know.

I read the engame report... I don't have the patience to read anything that huge.

Are we going to do a vote count anytime soon? It's tough with this game being 7 pages long already.

[cardb0ardb0x]

I don't think there's any good reason to out the kingmaker. Kingmakers don't gain any information greater than that held by a normal townie. They can't tell the town anything that useful, other than, "um, i'm the kingmaker, don't lynch me?"

I've kind of been thinking this for a while, but was distracted by defending myself. bird1111's actions don't make a whole lot of sense to me. He seemed to be putting serious thought into voting for pablito/glork. However, once a few things happened (I attracted unwanted attention to that combo, I had voted for them both with bad logic, and bird1111 was questioned about his votes) he immediately played them off as "joke votes."

I still don't really understand pablito's play either, saying that he will defend Glork "to the bone" early on. However, he's kind of defending me in a similar manner... is this something he does normally? no offense, i appreciate the help, i'm just wondering.

I still feel like mrbuddylee's attacks on me were a little too vehement and opportunistic. he discovered factual errors and poor logic in my posting, which i suppose would, in the eyes of mafia, make me a really easy lynch. But i could suspect this of anyone voting for me of the same thing, so it's really nothing unique. For example, spectrumvoid voted for me inbetween the time period Mcqueso posted the vote count where I had 6 votes plus an asterisk, and when petroleumjelly unvoted me. Whatever.

[cardb0ardb0x]

well, what you're saying about phoebus does make sense and his votes do seem telling. however, it's possible phoebus has an explanation, or just voted for whoever looked the most obviously suspicious in their posts, so I'll FoS: phoebus until he can come up with a response.

Don't forget that phoebus hadn't posted until page 7. Is that scummy, a sign of townie non-interest, or a non-issue?

[cardb0ardb0x]

Good luck with that. It's massive.

[cardb0ardb0x]

I have been posed a question. Here is the question:

@cardboardbox-I asked you a question about what you hoped to gain by claiming. I'd like to hear an answer.

Here's my response to said question.
Let's first look at what has been considored my claim.

if, after you lynch me, i'm a townie, just please, like, examine mrbuddylee.

In mafia games, after one has been lynched, they aren't allowed to post. This "claim" was an attempt to say something that, were I to be lynched, would be useful to the town after I had perished.

Obviously, no one can fully trust me to be on the side of the town at this point. Had I been lynched, I would have become a confirmed dead townie, and therefore things that I had said pre-lynch would be trusted more. I hope my response has satisfied and sufficiently answered your question, Thok.
Also, even though this is kind a moot point, I wasn't saying in that post "Look at me, I'm coming out, I'm a townie." I was saying, "should I be killed and discovered to be a townie, blah blah blah." It sounds like you were victim to miscommunication to me.

[cardb0ardb0x]

Hold on- I just had a flash of inspiration. I don't necessarily agree with this, but I thought of a potential advantage for the town to out the kingmaker. This is a little complicated and probably wouldn't work. The idea is that, as we all know, mafia cannot become kingmakers.

Mafia cannot become kingmakers. There is a way to exploit that fact. This would require several things. First, the kingmaker would have to declare who they are putting in line to become the next kingmaker should they be mafia'd. Second, those in line to become the next kingmaker would have to declare *who* they would choose to be king the next day should they become kingmaker, and each person's selection *must* be different.

Pre-Post Edit: The kingmaker would declare who they would make king the next day, to prevent a false claim. All of this would make more sense if it occurred after the king has pretty much made his/her decision, but before he/she actually posts the Execute command.

Under this system, let's say A is the current kingmaker, and declares B and C to be next in line as kingmakers. B declares he would make D king if B were made kingmaker. C declares that she would make E king if C were made kingmaker. That night, A is assassinated. The next morning, E is made king. Therefore, it can be deduced that B is mafia. Should D have been made king the next morning, it would confirm B as on the town's side. Am I being clear? I think I might have had a false epiphany...

Actually, now that I think about it, this really isn't a very good idea. It gives too much information to the mafia, and could totally screw up the game if a mafia declared kingmaker. It also gives the mafia some really obvious kill targets. This idea is so bad I probably shouldn't even post it. I'm just putting this out there as kingmaker theory- I'm not advocating its use at all.

[cardb0ardb0x]

Cb0x, have you read the Kingmaker discussion thread? And if so, precisely

when

did you read it? I am interested to know if your flash of inspiration came from thinking about the mechanics of the game, or if it was actually just taken from that particular thread.

Well, I partially answered this question before, in post #169.

Cb0x, have you read the original Kingmaker? I am interested to know.

I read the engame report... I don't have the patience to read anything that huge.

I actually read the kingmaker endgame report before the sign-ups for kingmaker 2 were open in the first place, as far as I could tell. There were so many "kingmaker theory" threads around, I just had to. Again, I only read the engame report, so my flash of inspiration seemed innovative to me at the time. What post did the idea appear in in kingmaker 1? Now I kind of want to read it.

[cardb0ardb0x]

Umm... 1 newbie question. How long are days/nights expected to take in an online mafia game? And yeah, FoSes and votes are kinda different, even though the rules of kingmaker don't specifically state so.

[cardb0ardb0x]

Umm... 1 newbie question. How long are days/nights expected to take in an online mafia game? And yeah, FoSes and votes are kinda different, even though the rules of kingmaker don't specifically state so.

Getting antsy for it to be night?

lol kind of, i'm used to entire games taking sometime over half an hour, as opposed to half a year... and it must kind of stink to spend 14 days deliberating and end up lynching a townie...

[cardb0ardb0x]

I've kind of been thinking this for a while, but was distracted by defending myself. bird1111's actions don't make a whole lot of sense to me. He seemed to be putting serious thought into voting for pablito/glork. However, once a few things happened (I attracted unwanted attention to that combo, I had voted for them both with bad logic, and bird1111 was questioned about his votes) he immediately played them off as "joke votes."

Well, I still think this. Vote: bird1111

well, what you're saying about phoebus does make sense and his votes do seem telling. however, it's possible phoebus has an explanation, or just voted for whoever looked the most obviously suspicious in their posts, so I'll FoS: phoebus until he can come up with a response.

Phoebus's cavalier tone, and... well, you've read his posts, and I don't find his response convincing. I get the impression that he's either scum or a townie that doesn't care if the town wins. Vote: Phoebus.

Reading over MrBuddyLee's posts, I've found that he just tends to get to the point. What I thought was an overzealous attack from him, was, i guess, just what he does normally. If I'm FoSing or anything him at this point, i'm un-FoSing or whatever.

I also just realized that bird1111 and phoebus are both already under the king's asterisk list... that doesn't really change what I just said regarding them.

[cardb0ardb0x]

Man, i forgot to bold.

Vote: bird1111, Vote: Phoebus

[cardb0ardb0x]

Agreed. Random 1st Round discussion seems mostly pointless. An LoE would bring focus.

[cardb0ardb0x]

If only I were scum, I would be a genius.

[cardb0ardb0x]

On the

On Pablito: I don't get it. In my eyes there's equal chance that pablito's acting scummy so he won't get mafia'd at night or that he's just plain old scum. I don't see how we're supposed to tell day 1. However, the deliberate nature of his actions-

But they're obviously intentional. How could anyone be that strange and natural?

(did he mean unnatural?) suggests a level of planning. I'm guessing that especially creative tactics are usually employed by the mafia rather than the town.
On the other hand, his behavior may be allocated towards a desire to simply take a big gamble and assume that any one particular player is on the town's side/ally, right off the bat. All things considored, the probability that one will end up randomly choosing another townie is very good. That may have been pab's original thinking, although it looks less and less like this is the case as time goes on...

On bird1111: There really isn't much to say, seeing as how he hasn't posted much at all (7 posts total, only 1 since september15th). The case against bird1111 is some fishy vote movements very early on. Looking at them, it's very possible that they were just regular day 1 votes that were just twiddled with too much.

On channeldelibird: Has justification for all actions, although that obviously doesn't automatically make him town.

On phoebus: I had forgotten how unproductive his posts were. He's never had anything to add, and never had any inhibitions about proclaiming how little he had to add or how little he had read, kind of intentionally dragging his heels. Doesn't automatically make mafia, however.

In summary, after looking over what I just wrote,

unvote: bird1111

and

vote: pablito

looks reasonable. I had previously voted for pablito, and unvoted... now it seems a little more justified to do so.

[cardb0ardb0x]

No, I won't reveal what I was thinking when I said I'll defend Glork to the bone. Ask me some other day.

No. Because it would bring more discussion and more fun if people can try to speculate why I'm doing it.

Is it possible, so early in the game, that pablito was erroneously trying to imply that he and glork were masons, even though there are clearly no masons in this game...? I'm just trying to make sense of what he's doing.

[cardb0ardb0x]

Thanks for the explanation pablito. I'm too tired to really contribute anything at the moment, I'll try and read & give my analysis before the end of the day. Lol, I've got to learn to stop putting wierd ideas out there (blah blah blah, maybe a mafia forgot there were no masons, blah blah blah)- this isn't a brainstorm. Anyways, I'll post something with substance later today.

[cardb0ardb0x]

why hasn't ubertimmy said anything? by the way, is there any particular reason why his avatar is pretty much the same as shadowlurker's?

[cardb0ardb0x]

I still don't really like the style of pj's execution yesterday, i.e. executing the one person that found him scummiest. However, for some reason I don't really get as much of a scum vibe from that that I would think. It's probably just due to the amount of thought he seemed to put into the executuoin. I don't like dead rikimaru's lurkerness, but the few thiings he's said seem to be pretty productive, while ubertimmy's don't. Aaand I suppose since someone brought up Fritzler, it's fairly apparent that he's just clinging onto a character theme- i.e. vote crashtextdummie ARR ARR ARR CAPTIAL LETTERS. This is neither helpful nor, um, productive. I really wanted to use a neither/nor sentence there. If he does this in every game, it's probably a good strategy for *him.*

To anyone who's been in these players' games, do they always do this...?