Mini 370: Reverse Mafia - Game Over!

[Mr. C├â┬®sar]

vote Mr cesar

....back to voting for me....I HAVE to revive.

[Yosarian2]

vote Mr cesar

....back to voting for me....I HAVE to revive.

Well, unless you can post more then this, it's not going to happen.

Why did you vote themanhimself? What do you think about the revival of me we did on day 1? What do you think about any or all of the other people we've voted for? Does anyone seem scummy to you?

[al_kohaulec]

@C_D, that is something I decided I need to look over and comment on. I'll do so as much as I can.

Mr. C, your actions are duely noted, and you will sit here in lylo until either:
a.) You start saying something other than "Revive me, Vote: Mr. Ceaser" or
b.) It's endgame, and you have an innocent result on you, so we choose to revive you to win the game.

Although b may still be unlikely if you don't start posting something about the game and other players.

[Thoth]

Thoth, you took out 9 people on your list. The only ones left are al_ko and I. Is there a chance that you might reconsider adding more onto that list in the near future?

Of course, especially the ones that I will not vote right now because of a lack of posts/content.

Thats it--I think Thoth actually is lower on content than he claims me to be (but yes, it is true I'm not very high in content, but we are both kettles calling the other black pots).

At the time I wrote that you only posted a few lists with little extra. From that I don't like the point you're making about Yos (in your 2nd post) as you could make exactly the same argument replacing scum with townie.
Last few posts I liked more moving you out of the 'would not vote for' category. Of course posting more content after appearing under 'low content' also makes you look somewhat more suspicious (yes, that is a Morton's Fork).

[Tamuz]

Despite not knowing what Morton's Fork, I'm just gonna put it out there that since my activity in this game started I've been fairly consistant Thoth. Yes I know that judgement was made prior to some events, and all your posts must be looked at in their time, rather than in comparison to developed events.

[lordy]

unvote, vote Tamuz

He convinced me to vote for him with his logic. However, i'm starting to dislike M4yhem even more:

The more Tamuz posts, the less I want to revive him.

Im not defending him, but i have a feeling that this is on OMGUS on tamuz stating that he will not consider M4yhem for revival.

[M4yhem]

Tamuz, darling:

Let’s not quibble about the meanings of words; I’m sure it’s boring everyone, even me.

I asked Mr.Ceasar for reasons because I wanted him to talk more and asking him about a topic he was interested in seemed like a good way to do it, honey. I also think that what people say about themselves is as interesting as what they say about others, sweetheart.

I have no problem with metagaming; it can be very useful.

The swearing was part of the reason I reacted like I did, yes. I’m afraid I assumed it was directed at me.

Some questions for you, Tamuz my flower:
If we revive you, whose revival are you most likely to support next?
Whose revival are you most likely to argue against?
Do you trust Yosarian?
What are the reasons for your answers to the questions above?
Do you think you are the best candidate for revival? If so, why? If not, who would be better?

Yos –I disagree. I think the scum have everything to gain from being supportive of their partners. They probably won’t be the first to vote for each other, but they will probably back up any townie who picks their buddy as a choice for revival. They will be saying things like: ”I agree with x and here’s a few more reasons my buddy is a good choice.”

I think the scum are still likely to use bandwagonning as a tactic to hide their intentions. Therefore, anyone who stands out from the crowd and has their own opinions is a good choice.

Nobody has given me reasons to vote Thoth so I guess that wagon is sunk.

Lordy: You are 100% right. I am a petty little bastard.

Thoth: What’s a morton’s fork?

Mr. Cesar:

[Tamuz]

Lets not quibble about meaning of words? MEANINGS ARE WORDS!!


How about I talk about the smell of your words instead.

[Yosarian2]

Yos –I disagree. I think the scum have everything to gain from being supportive of their partners. They probably won’t be the first to vote for each other, but they will probably back up any townie who picks their buddy as a choice for revival. They will be saying things like: ”I agree with x and here’s a few more reasons my buddy is a good choice.”

Sure, a scum might try to get his partner revived, and would probably support a partner who was going to be revived. However, they would probably want to avoid publically and ovbeously tying themselves to their partners. A scum might support a good guy for revival if it looked like the good guy was going to probably be revived anyway in order to make friends/ make himself look better, or oppose a good guy in order to help his own odds. However, I would expect a scum to avoid supporting too many good guys (too many good guys get revived, the scum lose); to avoid making enemies with too many good guys, and to avoid tying himself to his scum buddies too openly and visably, especally early in the game. In other words, I wouldn't expect a scum to comment on more then one or two people at any given time, and I would expect most of those comments to be kind of subtle, or wishy washy, or vauge.

I realize this is all painfully WIFOMish, but it's basically all I have to go on. Also, me making this point is hopefully going to encourage more people to start making comments and observations about several other people and to start leaving a voting record and a record of who they don't trust, and that's the only way we're really going to figure out who's town and who is not. I do think actually commenting on other people is a slightly pro-town action; it's the only way we're ever going to get past the "I've got kind of a good feeling about person X" stage.

[chaotic_diablo]

Scum will do that, scum will do this. No no, your wrong, scum will do this and etc etc etc. Enough with it! The argument is ultimately going to loop onto each other and go back and forth. Yes, it's painfully WIFOMish.

CTD is going back to his lurking state. Now I'm getting the impression that his earlier defense was full of empty words. I'll give him more time before I switch my stance on him, again.

After thinking, I'd prefer to bump Tamuz back to the top of my list. I'd like to keep Thoth on my list mainly because he's one of the people who isn't completely out of his mind.

Mr. C is currently at the wee bottom for obvious reasons.

unvote Thoth

[CrashTextDummie]

Me? Going back to the lurking state? Au contraire!

Adressing Toth's "potential scumslip" on me:
In most games I've played in as mafia (here and on other sites), we were allowed to talk before the thread opened even when we started in day. I assumed it was the same here. But even if this wasn't the case here, I still think scum put more thought into the set-up and their gameplan than the average pro-town player, since it actually requires some real effort from them to win this game. They have to appear really pro-town to the majority of the town, which I'd wager is more difficult than the not-looking-the-most-scummy aproach taken in most other games, considering the natural paranoia instilled in town players. And if not more difficult, it's at least different enough that scum would probably think about it before going into this game.

As I said, I did some thinking about how to play this game personally, and I have decided that I won't take the following traits into consideration when judging people:
1. being verbose/posting a lot of content - It's a good townie strategy as always, but it's also a better than usual scum strategy
2. voting for oneself/asking for revival - it leads to a lot of WIFOM. scum may be more eager to be revived than townies, but would they be so obvious about it? Maybe Mr. C has an awesome role he wants to get into play, but doesn't know how to promote himself more subtly (just an example)
3. lurking - it's never the best townie strategy, but it's a worse than usual strategy for scum this time around. I'm not going to vote for people I know too little about because of lurking, but if I have a good feeling about someone based on a few posts, I won't let that stop me
4. shameless bandwagoning - It's usually bad practice in conventional games and considered a scumtell, but it may actually be a viable townie tactic in this one. I'm currently undecided on how to think about it, that's why it's in this list for the moment (and yes, that's what I did with Yos; it's a bit of a letdown that barely anyone commented on it)

These four things I see as neither particularly scummy nor pro-town (I'm sure I forgot some things, I should have taken notes...).

The unique thing about this game is that it's usually easier to decide who the scummiest player is than who the least scummy player is, but this is counter-balanced by the fact that the chance of picking wrongly is lower here. Therefore, I've decided to go more with my gut feeling in this game (not entirely of course, but more than usual). What does that gut feeling tell me right now? Can't say yet, since I've mostly thought about strategy until now. I'll reread the thread and start playing for real (as in go "townie-hunting") when I'm done.

PS: I'm sure some of the things I've said have been brought up before. That's what I get for trying not to get influenced by anyone.

[al_kohaulec]

As far as voting for oneself goes, I do expect certain players to want to be revived over others simply for role related reasons, but I'm still not going to support anybody who doesn't actually help the town in any way. If you really want to get revived that badly, you need to convince the town to revive you, you need to work for the vote, earn it. Otherwise nobody has any reason to revive you.

[Tamuz]

Scum will do what it takes to win, thats all the WIFOM arguements really boil down to. It all about what you think is has the highest probability and the act upon it. This is a game with few exacts, you just have to try and make the best decisions on assumptions from those facts.

[CrashTextDummie]

If you really want to get revived that badly, you need to convince the town to revive you, you need to work for the vote, earn it. Otherwise nobody has any reason to revive you.

Actually, I'm not sure if I agree with this.

I'd even go so far as to

vote: Mr. César

[Thoth]

I thought this was a very common expression, but maybe I'm wrong about that: Morton's Fork

If you really want to get revived that badly, you need to convince the town to revive you, you need to work for the vote, earn it. Otherwise nobody has any reason to revive you.

Actually, I'm not sure if I agree with this.

I'd even go so far as to vote: Mr. César

I agree with this somewhat. In my experience people that hint at or request something strongly without explaining further are usually sincere. Of course they rarely get what they what unless they already have a very good reputation at mafiascum

[M4yhem]

It might be WIFOMish to talk about what scum might or might not do, but surely it's helpful? I mean, we need some basis for deciding who to revive. Or are we just telling the scum how not to behave?

It's basically day one all over again at the moment, isn't it? We revived Yosarian but we have no idea if we made the right choice; normally we would have a dead townie, giving us a confirmed innocent. So how do people catch scum on day one?

Tamuz- You ignored the questions I gave you. Please answer them, or give me a reason for not doing so.

CrashTextDummie- Good to hear from you. I agree with you on points 1 2 and 3, but I've decided that bandwagonning without reasons is scummy, since it theoretically allows scum to vote for thier buddies on the strength of someone elses arguements. I expect townies to be able to provide reasons when questioned. Also, did you only start posting because Chaotic called you out? It seems like it a little.

Yosarian wants people to be clear about thier suspicions; let us give Yosarian what he wants:

I would revive today:
Myself
Tamuz

I want to hear more from/about:
Twito
TheManHimself
CrashText the Dummie
Mr. Cesar
Yellowbounder
Anyone else I've forgotten-if I've forgotten you you aren't talking enough.

I will NOT vote to revive:
Al_Kohaulec-too nice and wishy washy. can't remember him taking a stand on anyone.
Chaotic_Diablo- Anytime someone mentions how scum might act, he tries to quash them by saying it's WIFOM. I don't like that at all.
Thoth-too negative.

[CrashTextDummie]

Also, did you only start posting because Chaotic called you out? It seems like it a little.

Basically, yeah.

I've had, and still have some major rereading duties today (6 games total, one of them 80 pages long) and when I saw him calling me out, I decided to work on this game immediately instead of doing one of the longer ones first.

[CrashTextDummie]

... this broadcast will continue! I have still more to say! (yay, contribution! sorry for the double post)

I agree with this somewhat. In my experience people that hint at or request something strongly without explaining further are usually sincere. Of course they rarely get what they what unless they already have a very good reputation at mafiascum

Actually, maybe a pro-town bandwagon

is

in order here. Everyone has outwright dismissed Mr. C so far, and it seems like I'm the first person to even consider reviving him. Certainly there hasn't been any scum effort to do so.

So, how about it? Anyone else willing to spin this game into a wild direction?

Note that this is merely a suggestion, and I'm not sure if it's a good one myself. But it willing to try it out.

[themanhimself]

So, how about it? Anyone else willing to spin this game into a wild direction?

Wow.. that's just crazy enough to get us all night killed.

unvote
vote: mr. cesar

[themanhimself]

*Mod can we get a vote count?*

[ChannelDelibird]

Your wish, my command, etc.

A Vote Count A Day Keeps The Moderator Busy:

Mr. Cesar- 3 (Mr. Cesar, CrashTextDummie, themanhimself)
Tamuz- 2 (Yosarian2, lordy)
yellowbounder- 1 (yellowbounder)

Not voting (6): Tamuz, Twito, al_kohaulec, Thoth, chaotic_diablo, M4yhem

7 to revive. Yosarian2 ain't happening.

[Tamuz]

Yeah, I didn't answer your Q's yet Mayhem.

I'll answer the ones I feel should be answered later. I just didn't want to answer in the same post i denounce the whole 'lets ignore words meanings' or else it would decrease that post's statement.


Hubert Cumperdale, your posting tastes like soot and poo.

[al_kohaulec]

So, how about it? Anyone else willing to spin this game into a wild direction?

Note that this is merely a suggestion, and I'm not sure if it's a good one myself. But it willing to try it out.

I have thought about a Mr. C. revival, but I want him to at least contribute something before I think about voting him. I don't want to make any mistakes here.

[Tamuz]

Some questions for you, Tamuz my flower:
If we revive you, whose revival are you most likely to support next?[/qupte]
I'm not so sure, I'm exploring two different paths of thought in my head, one which is my status quo of looking for people, the other I'd rather not say so not to skew data gathering, but it'd be revealed once the data is out

Whose revival are you most likely to argue against?

Cesars...

[quote="M4]Do you trust Yosarian?

List of people I trust:
Me
God
ChannelDelibird

What are the reasons for your answers to the questions above?

I ain't putting reliance/my trust in someone I don't know at least 90% about, and I feel no information I have other than my role PM is solid enough to have that 90% judgement about. Cesar's play, although it may not be scummy per se, it isn't pro-town.

Do you think you are the best candidate for revival? If so, why? If not, who would be better?

[/quote]
Again, me having information you don't beats this question. I know I'm a good candidate, ya'll can't know the same. Whether I'm a good candidate or not is more about your own perceptions than mine.

[Yosarian2]

Scum will do that, scum will do this. No no, your wrong, scum will do this and etc etc etc. Enough with it! The argument is ultimately going to loop onto each other and go back and forth. Yes, it's painfully WIFOMish.

It's not really a WIFOM issue to use your vote to reward those who you believe are acting in a pro-town way and to punish those who are not. That's not the only deciding factor in who a person should vote for, but it should be significant, because not only are pro-town people more likely to act in a pro-town way, but because it also forces everyone including the scum to act in a pro-town way which limits their options.

About Cesar, like I said earlier there are two factors in deciding who we should revive.

As to who should be revivied first, all I can say is that we want to revive people who we think are most likely to be pro-town based on their posts. After that, the next think I'm going to be considering is probably that we should try and pick people who seem most likely to make good decisions once they're alive; in the first day or two, their votes will be incredibly important to the town, as there will only be 3 or 4 people voting on those days, so we want to pick people who we think will make good decisions.

As of yet, he has not given me much reason to think he's pro-town. And even if he was pro-town, he's REALLY not given me any reason at all to think he'd make good decisions with his vote if we did revive him.

Based on his posts so far, I don't have any confidence in giving him 1/3 of the vote on day 1. I don't know what he would do with it, I don't know how he intends to figure out who's town and who's scum or if he intends on ever trying to figure that out for himself. Based on his posts so far, I see no reason to think that he's not even trying to figure out who's scum and who's not, which means that even if he's town I don't trust his judgement when it comes make that critical day 1 vote; and he's given me no real reason to think he's town either. If he wants to change my mind on that, he has to give me some sign he's thinking critically and trying to figure out who's scum, who's town, and who's a good revival choice.