Mini 1368 (Game Over)

[pieceofpecanpie]

There is none as such, a promise from killerjester that he is and I made some conjecture towards him being scum on the previous page.

On the other hand, you could read through the thread, do ISOs or think independently rather than asking for things to be spoonfed. I mean you want everyone to read your post when you feel it's important to look at and be heard. Treat others with the same respect and read through their shit. Read through Triangle/CES, in your opinion is he currently bussing his buddy?

And although I'm mildly annoyed at you Idiotking, I want to bitchslap NS right now.

@CES Your slot made a prod dodge with added promise of reads. Will you be fulfilling that promise? Or could you explain why you believe I Am Innocent is the recipient of your vote and not anyone else?

[killerjester]

Heavily distancing Lupo D1 while still supporting (and voting for) a Hellhound lynch. This is some-what explained by saying the Hellhound lynch should've given us valuable information about BBstar and Lupo, but this aspect in particular is never quite followed up on in terms of what a town flip meant for the cases of BBstar and Lupo. Has the feel of scum that was just looking for an excuse to lynch town.

Alot of her reads in #402 feel fabricated, especially the ones on Idiotking, Kublai Khan, and pappums rat as the following interactions are the ONLY ones she's had with the players for the entire game.

Idiotking - RVS only
pappums rat - possible sheep in regards to the Hellhound wagon
Kublai Khan - asked for his reads once

That's the extent that jumps out at me, but I could be missing something. You're highly encouraged to go take a look for yourself.

[Idiotking]

There is none as such, a promise from killerjester that he is and I made some conjecture towards him being scum on the previous page.

On the other hand, you could read through the thread, do ISOs or think independently rather than asking for things to be spoonfed. I mean you want everyone to read your post when you feel it's important to look at and be heard. Treat others with the same respect and read through their shit. Read through Triangle/CES, in your opinion is he currently bussing his buddy?

I didn't see an explanation for the Triangle-scum argument, which is why I asked. I don't think asking for people to explain their reads is such a big goddamn problem. I do read every post, you know, but just as with everyone who plays this game, I may reach a different conclusion than you do based on said posts. Asking for your reasoning for your suspicion of someone is not asking to be spoonfed, it's playing the game. Everyone in this thread seems hellbent on not explaining why they think anything.

As for reading through ISOs and such, I did, on you specifically, and the closest you ever got to explaining any kind of argument against Triangle was saying that he may be buddies with IAI, simply based on IAI claiming a town read on Triangle. That one thing jumped him up from a null read to a scumread, according to your posts.

I do appreciate that killerjester actually just gave his reasons rather than getting all snooty and condescending.

Heavily distancing Lupo D1 while still supporting (and voting for) a Hellhound lynch. This is some-what explained by saying the Hellhound lynch should've given us valuable information about BBstar and Lupo, but this aspect in particular is never quite followed up on in terms of what a town flip meant for the cases of BBstar and Lupo. Has the feel of scum that was just looking for an excuse to lynch town.

Having read through all of D1, I don't see Triangle distancing from Lupo. To me distancing requires buddying first, which didn't happen. All Triangle did was suggest that Lupo may be a good lynch, which is sort of the same thing you did, so if Triangle distanced Lupo, so did you. As for what a Hellhound flip would mean for BBstar, I think Triangle may have been referring to BBstar's mislynch comment about the Hellhound wagon on D1:

Quick thoughts because I have to go soon.
I don't see bbstar's mislynch comment as a scumslip, and the way he explained it was pretty much what I had interpreted from his comment when I first read it. CD's jump on it, especially the odd reasoning (if it's a scumslip, then how can it be a distancing strategy?), is scummy, and after we get a flip, I'll definitely be reviewing his ISO Day 2.

That's the only thing I saw, though. My read of Triangle is that she was a semi-active eventual flake, much like me (sans flaking so far).

Also, if these were your reasons for claiming that Triangle was scum,

VOTE: triangle123

This one's scum. I promise.

Why didn't you say them when you were making your vote? What possible good is a vote without an explanation? I mean, you just explained it now, but why not earlier?

[Idiotking]

Actually, to further elaborate on that rapid, unexplained switch, why did you drop your wagon on me so fast, killerjester? You kept saying stuff like I couldn't get more guilty, I was obviously scum, I'd outright claimed scum, etc. Then you said "scum wouldn't have attacked me after claiming a doc protection on me" and just dropped the case altogether. Why? What makes you believe my claim, if I'm

so

incredibly guilty? And why were you so quick to jump on Triangle without having ANY previous arguments against her, and without explaining your vote?

[killerjester]

It's too early to lynch a claimed doc. I jumped on triangle because I want her lynched.

[Idiotking]

Why? If you want Triangle lynched,

why did you wait to explain your reasoning?

[killerjester]

Because I wasn't asked to, I suppose. I promise I didn't just pick a name out of my hat.

[Melmond]

I'm going to be v/la for the next couple days, I've been moving and forgot to put it up until now...
I'll try and make a post in the morning though... Just really tired right now.

[pieceofpecanpie]

I do appreciate that killerjester actually just gave his reasons rather than getting all snooty and condescending.

I think that's an overstatement of what I was doing, but whatever.

For what it's worth, sorry if you thought I was being dickish. I didn't mean to come off like that.

[pieceofpecanpie]

@Idiotking I would really appreciate your thoughts on my question.

Read through Triangle/CES, in your opinion is he currently bussing his buddy?

[I Am Innocent]

Señor Ockham is on your side.

So the following people are excused...

• Melmond
  killerjester
  Cheery Dog
  Idiotking

These members of class may have some poor grades, but aren't the trouble makers...

• Nobody Special - Twice a counter wagon to Lupo, early Day 1 and Day 2, and they're buddies? That's rare
  basketballstar24 - This guy just doesn't smell right for scum, VI more likely

The following should report to the principals office immediately...

• I Am Innocent
  Triangle123
  Kublai Khan

If class is in favour of an I Am Innocent wagon, please raise their hands and vote.

If you were scum, where would you put your likely partner on this list? Town, Null, or Scum? I'm guessing null. Esp since you went out of your way to clear both null reads ("That's rare" & "VI more likely")

When I have been scum, which has been 8 times, I don't think I ever have given a town read to a partner. Why, because it removes the chance of bussing them later. Usually null, or if they play poorly, all out buss right from the start.

So if it doesn't make sense for scum, and I have 8 meta games of never doing it before, what is your rationale for me giving "my scum teammate" a town read like you seem to think?

Your votes have been very bad today. Likely Cop (Cheery), Likely Doc (Idiot) and Me (I know I'm town).

Your officially in my top 2 suspects along with NS.

[I Am Innocent]

Yarr.

Vote: I Am Innocent

Rationale? Have you even read the thread yet?

Well, since my IK wagon has totally stalled,

unvote

Vote: I am Innocent

(which he likely isn't, IMO.)

OMGUS?

[I Am Innocent]

And although I'm mildly annoyed at you Idiotking, I want to *****slap NS right now.

Can you explain what you mean here?

[Cheery Dog]

well I guess the BBS wagon isn't going to happening today either then.

UNVOTE: bbs

Your votes have been very bad today. Likely Cop (Cheery), Likely Doc (Idiot) and Me (I know I'm town).

None of us had claimed before pecan's vote, seeing as Idiot got to L-1 before claiming, what makes that vote that bad?

also I'll now be going where I said early from jester's lynchpool that I was willing to lynch, and your claim of that being bad because you know you're town doesn't actually mean anything, lies may exist.

VOTE: I Am Innocent

[Nobody Special]

Well, since my IK wagon has totally stalled,

unvote

Vote: I am Innocent

(which he likely isn't, IMO.)

OMGUS?

No. I honestly didn't even realize you were voting me (not that I expect you to believe me).

[Idiotking]

Read through Triangle/CES, in your opinion is he currently bussing his buddy?

Well, Triangle's last vote was against me, so obviously I'm going to have to say no for her. For CES, until he posts more, I have no idea. As I said, I don't think Triangle/CES is necessarily scum. I have an overall null read of Triangle. I can only think someone is bussing if I assume that they are scum.

That's a rather loaded question.

[Idiotking]

Because I wasn't asked to, I suppose. I promise I didn't just pick a name out of my hat.

You have to know that this is entirely unacceptable.

Unvote

Vote killerjester

There is no good reason for voting without giving a reason. The town relies in information, which partly comes from people's arguments. If you don't give any argument for your votes then you are being comically scummy, on the same level that NS is scummy.

At this point I'm willing to lynch killerjester or NS. I need to look through IAI and Kublai Khan more before I make up my mind on them.

[I Am Innocent]

None of us had claimed before pecan's vote, seeing as Idiot got to L-1 before claiming, what makes that vote that bad?

If Idiot is town, then there was probably scum on that wagon. Hmmm, who joined that wagon late. NS - 4th vote, Pecan the L-1 vote.

I am town, and who is on my wagon. NS, Pecan....see a pattern here?

NS who says I am not even in his top 2 (Triangle and Idiot are) but votes me. It's called a scum preservation vote (I'll vote the other leading wagon to protect myself)

And you vote me over that scum. Nice.

also I'll now be going where I said early from jester's lynchpool that I was willing to lynch, and your claim of that being bad because you know you're town doesn't actually mean anything, lies may exist.

If the group feels that strongly that is the way to go, then we should lynch claimed

scum

miller. The guy who volunteered to be lynched before LyLo but then went all survivalist mode and says no way, the town vig should not shoot me!

The same guy who when he bussed his partner with a vote wouldn't even claim it was because he was scummy, instead referenced a policy lynch. "However, a good policy lynch might." (Post 431). Other great quotes from that post defending his partner:

"By virtue of Hellhound's town flip I felt the scumminess I picked up from Lupo's associative tells weakened." (saying look my partner is town because he refused to vote Hellhound)

"Also, I'm getting a vibe this game that scum are contributing more than most of town." (Lupo was not a contributing player, so trying to refocus to other players)

"So on the whole I feel my scum thoughts on Lupo have been nullified a bit." (saying guys, he is getting my vote, but not because he is scum...so please vote someone else)

"On the other hand, going awol for over a week at the end of Day 1 only to come back and be like "see told you guys Hellhound wasn't scum" is extremely aggravating." (see, lupo's not scum, he is just aggravating town)

@Cheery, if you feel so strongly about voting someone that voted hellhound, would you being willing to move your vote to PecanPie? To the guy who says, yes, I am okay with that pool of players as long as it's not me.

I'll vote either of these 2. I will not be voting anyone else except to prevent a no-lynch at deadline.

[I Am Innocent]

At this point I'm willing to lynch killerjester or NS. I need to look through IAI and Kublai Khan more before I make up my mind on them.

Why move your vote from a wagon of 4 to a wagon of 0? Do you really think killerjester is going to be lynched today? I'm thinking not, so why take pressure off of NS?

[Kublai Khan]

@mod, Kublai Khan needs a prod

@Kublai Khan, a look at your posts shows you have posted in general discussion constantly, why are you avoiding posting in here? If you are not interested in playing, please replace out.

I'm here. My head's not in the game currently though. I'm trying a sleeping giant thing.

I'll be reading up today and have a content post late, late tonight.

[killerjester]

More importantly, I'd be interested in why #682 is scummier than #691. Thoughts, IK?

[ChaosOmega]

Vote Count 3.04

I Am Innocent (4) - pieceofpecanpie, Cogito Ergo Sum, Nobody Special, Cheery Dog
Nobody Special (3) - basketballstar24, I Am Innocent, Melmond
killerjester (1) - Idiotking
Cogito Ergo Sum (1) - killerjester

Not Voting (1) - Kublai Khan

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline

~4 days and 5.5 hours

[Idiotking]

Why move your vote from a wagon of 4 to a wagon of 0? Do you really think killerjester is going to be lynched today? I'm thinking not, so why take pressure off of NS?

Killerjester needs more pressure than NS at the moment, because he has received practically no genuine pressure thusfar, while NS has been pressured for practically the whole thread. I don't think NS is suddenly going to stop lurking and start contributing, no matter how hard we wagon him. As I've said, I'm still all for a NS lynch today, but killerjester is more in need of a vote at the moment. His play has deteriorated rapidly since the beginning of D3, and I want to know why.

More importantly, I'd be interested in why #682 is scummier than #691. Thoughts, IK?

I don't like 691, but for the moment I'm willing to chalk it up to a random vote. CES had only replaced Triangle four minutes before voting, so clearly didn't have time to read anything (though if he continues in this behavior he will definitely be suspect). You have no such excuse. You've been here since D1, and have read the thread. Thus, making unexplained votes and waiting until I ask for an explanation to give one is far worse coming from you.

At any rate, I don't buy your case against Triangle. It seems to me to be more of an after-the-fact excuse. Like, "I voted Triangle, but I guess now I've got to come up with a reason." You were flat out wrong about Triangle distancing herself from Lupo, and I don't like "these reads feel fabricated" stuff. People don't have to interact directly with each other to build reads. They can look at how they interact with others and make a judgement. I hadn't interacted with you significantly before I gave my read of you, pecanpie, and Paschendale. Similarly, you had hardly interacted with Triangle before proclaiming her scum. Now you may be right about Triangle not really giving a clear reason why a Hellhound flip would indicate anything about BBstar, but that alone is not worthy of a vote.

[killerjester]

I feel like you're stretching your case and trying to find excuses to call me scummy.

I explained why I voted to you in #701

because you asked

and now you're ragging on me for not doing it earlier? That's like me saying, "If it bothered you that much, why didn't you bring it up in your #699 post? It's so scummy of you to wait until #702 to point it out!"

[Idiotking]

My point is that I shouldn't have

had

to ask for you to post a reason (reasons which I think are bunk). Not giving a reason for your votes when you make them is one of the most basic scumtells there are. I refuse to believe that you don't know that.