Mini 343: Donnie Darko 0:0:0:0 Game Over

[nonny]

Vote Count:

Sentinel99 (1): MeMe
Scalebane (2): Sotty7, AniX
Chess83 (2): olio, emptyger
Emptyger(1): Seninel99
Ixnayonthehombre(1): Save The Dragons
AniX(1) Scalebane

Not Voting: Ixnayonthehombre, chess83


thelast vote count was wrong? okay i'll double check this one then...( i just checked sorry i missed your vote earlier scale bane)

And there will be a

deadline

, next monday at midnight we will go into night! The person with 1/2 +1 majority will be lynched, if there are two or more it will be the one that got to the point first.

[Sentinel99]

@ STD: You backed down the last half of the game. It feels like you're town. Maybe you got a little aggressive at points, and then realized that people were starting to distrust you, and so you corrected. Like I alluded, I've been working off of suspicions from the beginning of the game. Now that I've utterly caught up, and had time to mull things over a bit, you don't seem as suspicious.

Now, maybe this is just because you're smart scum. But, I don't think scum would be so level-headed and helpful. I'm starting to think that the "link" between you and scale was scum (scale) playing it smart and aligning with a townie to throw supsicion should he get caught.

At olio:

There is value in keeping information hidden. (If there weren’t, then we would have massclaimed yesterday.) So information that I see reason to revealed I will reveal. (As I have done so.) Information that I feel should not be revealed, or information I am not sure about, I will not reveal.

[In the interests of making a distinction between chamber’s behavior and mine- chamber’s lynch was clearly not in his best interests, thus he should have revealed his information.]

Ixnayonthehombre [cont] wrote:
Could you please explain this? "I'm talking about that there's no way for me to know that there isn't a real vigilante out there." ...? and please explain what you mean by - "I’m already going to stand or fall on the vigilante claim. "<snip>

My nameclaim will not aid in determining my guilt or innocence. Regardless of my alignment, I’m capable of killing a player. I’m going to be claiming a character for who being a vigilante would make sense, and thus a character for who a killing role would make sense, and thus who conceivably could be mafia or a SK. So the only advantage (for the town, at least) in my doing so would be to see if I get counterclaimed- and the vigilante claim, which doesn’t give any additional information away- is perfectly capable of doing so.

How could a nameclaim not aid in determining guilt or innocence? I mean, there are good guys and bad guys in this movie.

[AniX]

Did you vote because you were pressured or because you wanted to? What percentage is Scalebane at?

I was kind of on the fence as whether or not to vote for Scalebane, and two people calling for me to place a vote did play role in helping me decide on the issue. However, it wasn't like I was all "No, not going to vote..." and then was pressured to vote. I was all "Should I vote, should I not vote?" and when Emp also called for me to vote and Scalebane continued to seek for me to vote, that gave a tad more weight to that side of the issue, but I could very well have gone either way.

Scalebane, in the past week, has been making posts that have lead me to place him around a 63%. Very close to the "vote" mark, but not quite there, but close enough that I was debating whether or not to push him up to 65%.

[Sotty7]

Sorry for disappearing on you guys the last couple of days but I hurt my back during the holiday weekend which sucks.

Sotty:

Anix: Show me where you've voted and I'll point out how you're not scum. Oh wait.

My comment about you "pointing out that you've never voted" was simply regarding your "if I was voting, I would vote" comment. It drew attention to the very absence of any votes in the game so far. I, in fact, would not have really noted it if you hadn't made that really weird comment with regards to Ixnay. Why not just vote him already?

Me explaining what you just asked me to explain. And am I the only one who thinks it weird that anix hasn't voted by page 14 of this game?

I didn't actually ask you to explain anything, I just found your vote a little strange. I know the reasoning or the logic your claiming for your vote, I just can't fully buy into it, like I said in my last post. The fact that AniX hadn't voted all game was a good point though.

@emp, I was waiting for someone to catch this. I was surprised that it was CK, someone who was not extremly active or leading the town, those people (IMO) are nk targets. My contradiction about saying I would have voted for him is based on my skimming of the thread. I glazed over it trying to get the basic points down and failed to see the actions of the STD/Scale pair in front of me. As for the MeMe being scum thing, yes I mentioned it, but had (IMO) more evidence and likelyness of STD/SCALE being scum.

You were waiting for someone to catch this? That statement sent a shiver down my spine and the paragrapgh really looks like your scrambling quick to explain it away. I almost shifted my vote after reading that but it would be based mostly on my gut reaction and I

still

think Scale is more likely to be scum than you. Although you are really starting to rise up.

Okay, I vote we go all USA PATRIOT Act on Emp. Seriously, we're getting down to the wire, and you claim to have information that you also claim to know is bad for us. If you've got something legitimitely earth-shattering, now would be a good time to share. Otherwise... Hmm... I was about to advocate a lynch, but I don't know if you're scummy, per se. Hurting the town, yes. I'm going to

vote: EmpTyger

.

I really, REALLY don't understand were this came from.

Okay... This is hard to put into words...

By willfully withholding information, Emp could potentially be creating a situation in which the town will rush into a lynch uninformed. I think that if you have some solid evidence that the town can work on, than you should disclose it and allow everybody a chance to go over it. Maybe somebody can see things differently than you. I don't see how withholding information can help the town. I mean, maybe, holding out on roleclaims, I understand that, but that's not so much withholding, as it's expected in the game. Ultimately, Mafia is a team game. You can't look at things, try and figure it all out yourself, and then try and convince everybody to go along with you. If you do try that, you're branded scummy, as has happened to me before. In Urban Legends Mafia, I

knew

that one player was mafia, but since I hadn't been pointing all the giveaways out the whole time, the town was (rightfully) loath to believe me.

The only information I believe (I could be wrong of course) Emp is with holding is his name claim. We have already had a big discussion about this and the majority of people don't really have a problem with it. I'm confused. Have you just read that part of the game or have you

just

decided that he is scummy because of that. It just really seemed to have come out of nowhere.

[Chess83]

Okay, it seems my desicison not to point out my own faults was a bad one. All I can say is that I generally do not point out my own faults. I will admit when I make those mistakes but I never point them out. I never have seen the advantage to pointing out my own misteps to bring them all to light, bascially building an argument against myself. I do however, see the advantage of pointing it out so that 10 pages down the road if someone brings it up I would be able to say that I explained it already or already pointed that out way back when. However, I think I make enough mistakes (as pointed out by olio) that I don't need to add any more rope to that noose by pointing out my own faults.

Other than this there is really no defense for my decision to wait. I just ask that whomever is going to vote for me or persue lynching me considers all the facts and not just this one. Look at what Olio is saying about me and read my posts.

As for a claim from me I will either claim with a majority (6) asking me for my claim or 5 votes (lynch-1) being placed on me. Please pay attetion to the deadline. I feel that I am quite under the gun here, espically with the claimed vig taking a hard look at me. So please, if you want me to claim say so. I have nothing to hide with my claim, I am just waiting for the town's desire to be known. I actually want to claim, because I think having my name out there will clear me. But I won't claim without the town's consent because I know that is a scummy move. So make up your minds and let me know.

[Sentinel99]

OMGZ! Sotty disappeared and then came back! HAX! LYZOR!!!!

Okay, sorry, I needed to vent. Anyway, to address your concerns, it's actually a little bit of both. I reread the whole thing, and that jumped out at me as one of the weirdest things that happened. Somebody turns up dead, everybody assuming that the scum did it, and then somebody claiming it without a nameclaim. Claims that a name won't help us decide guilt or innocence. I understand that most of the town has already moved past this, but it's a bit of a mental sticking point for me. By which I mean it's like a fishbone, I can't get it out of the throat of my mind.

[EmpTyger]

Clock’s on and the votes are spread rather evenly. I’d be willing to switch my vote to any of {AniX, Scalebane, Sentinel}, though I still like my vote on Chess best.


Sotty:

<snip>The only information I believe (I could be wrong of course) Emp is with holding is his name claim.<snip>

For the record, I’m also withholding my [incorrect] reasons for targeting CK.


Sentinel:

By willfully withholding information, Emp could potentially be creating a situation in which the town will rush into a lynch uninformed.

So don’t speedlynch. It’s a good idea anyhow.
Incidentally, didn’t the town *win* Urban Legends mafia?


STD:

<snip>@Emp

How far are you willing to keep the claim underwraps?<snip>

Less than chamber. I’m doing so because it’s optimal; if it would no longer be, I won’t.

[Sentinel99]

Yeah, we did win Urban Legends. People finally went along with me, plus Blue made a really weird play at the end, claiming a magical one-shot cop ability.

Can anyone give me a quick rundown of the case against Chess? And, if Chess were lynched, who would you target, Emp?

When Chess came in, I saw him posting, and being generally helpful, voicing many of my own concerns. Now, however, I'm starting to think maybe I misread, and that I was willing to believe anything he said because he was thinking along the same lines as me. Lately, he's started to sounds some bells, so I just want to see expressly stated everything against him, and allow him a chance to respond.

[Save The Dragons]

Unvote

no one wants ixnay? Ok. Since we're close to a deadline, I'll revisit it tommorrow or drop it altogether.

Vote Chess

We've got to get somewhere. I think it's possible he's scum. To elaborate on what I said, he went from this player who attacked two people determining them to be scum, then stopped giving ideas, mostly just defending himself. If the votes swing Sentinel's way, then maybe I'd go that way. I dunno...I have a feeling I'm wrong, but we only have a few days to decide.

[Chess83]

Emp, since we have been discussing my claim and when to claim and what not. Given the deadline and the fact that I very possibly will be holding the majority votes, how do you think I should handle the claim in that situation? Basically, should I claim Sat? That would give people Sunday to change their vote if my claim made a difference. I just don't want the town to look back at my name and think "well if we had known that I probably wouldn't have voted for him." (Do not take that statement as a hint to my claim, it is strictly hypothetical). What are your thoughts.

this question is open to everyone, I have been diagloguing with emp about this already that is why I am directing it to him.

[nonny]

Vote Count:

Sentinel99 (1): MeMe
Scalebane (2): Sotty7, AniX
Chess83 (3): olio, emptyger, save the dragons
Emptyger(1): Seninel99
AniX(1) Scalebane

Not Voting: Ixnayonthehombre, chess83

[Save The Dragons]

burden's on you to defend yourself, claim when you feel it's right.

[Chess83]

You know, seeing how I am in the lead of voting and I don't see that trend chaning anytime soon. Two people are really after me with a third not that far off. Also, considering how this game is moving really slowly, I decided that I want to make sure people have time to read my claim. So I am giving it out now.

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Elizabeth Darko, Donnie's big sister. Vanilla Townie.
I hope this will convince some people that I am not scum.

[MeMe]

It makes

me

very unlikely to switch to you.

[Save The Dragons]

hmmm...

to me it seems like a claim that could be easily faked from the OP, but it could also be legit.

Maybe you're an appropriate vig target as opposed to a lynch target (basically so someone else is aware of the axe against them).

Emptyger, in case we lynch chess, who are you going to vig?

[Chess83]

pardon my newbieness, but so that I may completly understand you, what does "OP" mean?

[EmpTyger]

Hm. I don’t have anything to say one way or the other about Chess’s claim, except for the obvious parallel to chamber’s. My number 2 was AniX, but again, I’m not going to vigkill without at least tacit consensus.

[Save The Dragons]

opening post. Basically, it would be easy to form such a claim as yours based off of the dead townie sibling last night.

Unvote

since Chess isn't going to be lynch anymore...

Vote: Sentinel

[Scalebane]

STD: Could you provide some reasoning behind your sentinel vote? I'd kinda like to get some insight on your play.

I ... am on the fence about Chess's claim. It's a good claim (as long as no one counterclaims of course) but the issue is that we have no real idea who from the movie is going to be "scum" in this game. No, I can't see any real reason for Elizabeth to be scum. But then again, the only role I can see being argued as an auto-lynch is Jim Cunningham.

[olio]

@Olio
I am curious what made you change your mind about Emp claiming his role. I am also curious who else you think is scum besides Chess. If Chess is the vigkill target, what are you going to do about the lynch?

Do you mean "what changed my mind to stop asking for his character name" or "what made me believe him"?

For the former, I wasn't initially comfortable with his claim as in my opinion it could be used as a cover for SK. So, in the terms of percents, I was 60-75% sure EmpTyger was town. Once he explained the probability of gambit, that number went up to 75-95%, and thus in my opinion made the nameclaiming a wasted resource at the moment.

I'd be happy to see Sentinel go too, based on his recent EmpTyger vote.

I'm also not sure where Chess slipped. And I'm also not sure saying that you were voting for scalebane is a blantent, intentional lie.

In my opinion he slipped in the post which he started "nothing to contribute" and then added whole lot of guidelines for town to follow. When it comes to me voting Scalebane while accusing Chess, I accused Chess in a post and changed my vote on Chess on the same post. Until the last lines of

that post

, I was technically voting Scalebane, but this is the first time I've ever seen anyone seriously start to nitpick timing of the vote

inside one post

. The nitpicking was done in such a force, that it made EmpTyger question me if I really did such a thing, and thus warranted "a blatant, intentional lie" -label on it.

That said, I'll

unvote: Chess

, based on MeMe's reaction.

vote: Sentinel

[Save The Dragons]

I don't vote heavy under threat of deadline. I like sentinel for various reasons, some i mentioned before; lurking, his attack and then his switch, his attack on emp in light of a deadline. If the tide turns before moday then I'll consider other people, but right now a bandwagon seems profitable rather than voting for ixnay until the day's over.

[Sotty7]

I'm not against a Sentinel lynch especially with his change of focus to Emp, but I still think Scale is a better one, that's why I won't be moving my vote. The claim from Chess seems fair enough, I won't be voting him today after hearing it anyway.

[nonny]

Vote Count:

Sentinel99 (3): MeMe, Save the Dragons, Olio
Scalebane (2): Sotty7, AniX
Chess83 (1): emptyger
Emptyger(1): Seninel99
AniX(1) Scalebane

Not Voting: Ixnayonthehombre, chess83

[Chess83]

Emp, how is this an obvious parellel to chamer's non-claiming?

[Chess83]

Where is Ixnay?

Can we get a prod on Ixnay?