Mini 343: Donnie Darko 0:0:0:0 Game Over

[AniX]

Ixnay closest to the top at about 55%ish

Because I voted Sentinel for lurking and suggested you for the nightkill?

The whole "getting rid of lurkers who might be town still helps the town" struck me as either the scummiest statement I heard in this game or the most naive. Not quite enough to bring you up to votable status, but enough to bump you up about 25 percent.

[Save The Dragons]

Before I post the next one, we have a possible deadline coming up soon. I have two questions for EmpTyger:

Are you 100% decided that you're going to kill someone?

And can you make a list of at least three or four people you're considering on vigging in order?

And I apologize if you've already answered these questions, but it doesn't hurt to be thorough.

I think I've figured out your name, but I'm not too sure. But if I'm right, scum aren't going to claim it anyway.

But don't let that affect your decision (i doubt it will).

To Do List:

Scalebane
MeMe
Anix

Sotty
Sentinel

MeMe

Posts: 52

Post 1: random
Post 2: votes Anix for not posting
Post 3: asks chamber to prove his statement
Post 4: asks questions of chamber
Post 5: points out an odd point made by chamber
Post 6: requests an answer from chamber
Post 7: clarifies
Post 8: irrelevent
Post 9: irrelevent
Post 10: tells chamber that people are after him. Meme puts 6 people into categories, and tacks herself on at the

end.
Post 11: attacks chamber's nonpoint of "she's scum" and his blame of the town for misjudging him
Post 12: disagrees with chamber
Post 13: says people should learn from bandwagons
Post 14: likes her vote
Post 15: waiting for discussion
Post 16: expresses interest in why CK called chamber a townie.
Post 17: says she'll hammer
Post 18: Hammers
Post 19: posts her interest in sentinel
Post 20: the "connection" post
Post 21: mentions sentinel was too sure
Post 22: irrelevent...mentions how she knows certain information
Post 23: irrelevent except to lead EmpTyger away from BSW
Post 24: explains suspicious feelings towards CK
Post 25: questions Scalebane awkward search results
Post 26: same as above
Post 27: votes anix for his lack of participation
Post 28: responds to sotty
Post 29: responds to Anix
Post 30: basically states Anix is lurking
Post 31: Votes sentinel
Post 32: for lurking
Post 33: gives a list of suspicions
Post 34: awaiting participation
Post 35: see above
Post 36: points out the possible alignment revelation between me and scale
Post 37: supports chess post asking sentinel to take time to read
Post 38: asks for progress
Post 39: asks for Sotty's thoughts on sentinel
Post 40: asks emp for a clarification
Post 41: still likes sentinel
Post 42: irrelevent
Post 43: states her LoS is pretty much the same
Post 44: asks for a clarification
Post 45: Counters scalebane's "she's not posting much" and states her opinion on the sudden rush of negative

sentiments towards her
Post 46: defends herself against my statements
Post 47: talking about death scene
Post 48: FOSs me
Post 49: irrelevent (except that it adds to sentinel's lurking)
Post 50: see above
Post 51: see above
Post 52: asks for a vote count

Overall: For a majority of the game, MeMe votes for those who are lurking, because they are. Besides posts that

attack her directly and the LoS, discussion on lurkers has been most of her content (the whole reason we got into

the chamber mess was because of it). I'm not going to accuse her of lurking in plain sight, but there could be more

information on other people (i.e. why are the people on your LoS in thier place?)

Anix

Posts: 20

Post 1: says he'll vote Meme, and that he will lurk
Post 2: irrelevent, except that he writes off a question asked to him
Post 3: I'm not sure
Post 4: says he's not going to participate in the discussion
Post 5: clarifies it, by suggesting people are going after chamber because he attacked meme's playstyle
Post 6: defends claims of unproductivity
Post 7: responds to my vote
Post 8: states his policy of waiting
Post 9: accuses meme of accusing him with little evidence
Post 10: answers questions against him and explains playstyle
Post 11: states he can't post much
Post 12: posts defences
Post 13: theorizes about Emp's vig status, and comes to the conclusion Emp is a vig, or a vig will kick his ass.
Post 14: doesn't think we should throw kills around
Post 15: posts his thoughts on everyone
Post 16: explains why he isn't voting Ixnay
Post 17: posts thoughts on chess
Post 18: defends himself on things like "he's not going to vote," and "he claims he's town" (those are generalizations)
Post 19: explains why he's not voting for anyone
Post 20: explains why Ixnay is at the top of his list

Overall: The whole, 'he hasn't participated in this entire game' arguement, while still holding some flakes of truth, is not fresh anymore, and isn't quite as true as it was pages ago. The whole, 'he's not voting for anyone' is intreging, but doesn't really make him scum, in my opinion. Scum have many avenues to get to the same road, however, and if he's scum, he's not using the most common one, which is voting for a lynch. By being noncommittal, he doesn't have to be involved in the lynch. As long as he himself is lynched, he's in the clear. But that's one scenario.

This 11th hour thing...it come out at endgame, right? Because if that's the case, it's a double edged sword for us, because it potentially could be a powerful tool for whichever side you are on. And if you don't post anything, we can't tell what side you are on. That's the major reason why I'm tempted to vote you.

[Save The Dragons]

I HATE NOTEPAD ><

[EmpTyger]

I had posed a question about why it was seems so relatively hard for the final vote to be put on chamber, an innocent. Since no one else seemed interested, I’ll state my theories:
1) MeMe actually was mafia.
2) Brizzy/Chess was lurking mafia, and didn’t realize the opportunity.
3) Sentinel was lurking mafia, and didn’t realize the opportunity.
4) AniX was mafia, and couldn’t reverse himself having already outlined a playstyle.
5) All the mafia were already voting for chamber among the first 6 votes.
Not enough information yet to figure this one out, but I feel it should be kept in mind.


Chess:

Vote: Chess

. I’m feeling kind of silly that it took me that long to see it. The damning post:

<snip>MeMe drops the hammer vote, a small spat between Sent and Scale flares up, then Nonny announces the verdict. We awake to find CK is dead. This was kind of a surprise to me and frankly I did not catch this until now.<snip>

How was a surprise, when you replaced in right after CK’s deathscene was posted? How, when you were the first to post that day? A surprise? The only way *you* could be surprised would be if you submitted the mafiakill for on another player.

Why did you on arrival at dawn in [108] say that he would have voted chamber also? I mean, you certainly weren’t being accused of anything. The only reason seems to be to defend those who did vote chamber, either genuinely or to protect someone. But you quickly contradicts yourself to go after STD; you says in [108] that you would have voted chamber, but in [115] says that “chamber was posting coherent logic” and that STD “led the town into lynching” chamber. But more glaringly- how does he make this conclusion about *STD*? Wouldn’t *MeMe* be the proper one to think this of? You do mention MeMe as a potential partner, but try to minimize this, as a potential distancing hedge. For he instead focuses on a possible partnership with… Scalebane? Your logic of late just has made less and less sense. It really feels like the mafia planned out overnight who to target, and that’s what you did.


Sentinel:
Why did you bother to remove your random vote in [37]? Your D1 twilight post is a little bizarre still. But very little actual suspicion jumps out about; it’s the lurking and the replacement lie that are suspicious. I just do not believe your story about thinking you were already replaced; you said that you *do* need to be replaced, not that you *did* need to be replaced.

<snip>(Post 61, Emp seems to misunderstand the whole chamber/MeMe thing, says that AniX is at the center of the debate. It was never really about AniX at all, it was about the act of "lurker hunting".)<snip>

Well, that’s why I said *epicenter*, not the center. I did understand that, which seemed to make AniX’s silence all the more odd.


AniX:
I *still* am bothered by [66]. If you were thinking that chamber and MeMe were both protown, why was it so hard for that opinion to be extracted from you? (MeMe gives a particularly good reason in [73]). And I find myself constantly disagreeing with your suspicions and the reasons for them, which gives me little faith in your claimed 11th hour talent. And, I mean, fishing for the cop.


Scalebane:
You seemed anxious to discredit chamber’s final suspicions in [96]. Possibly innocently, or possibly because he and at least 1 other mafia were on that list. The tone of the post does seem to assume chamber is protown. Interestingly, it got chamber to clarify his list twice, finally to {AniX, MeMe, CK}. You do make a twilight post, but don’t mention any of this again. This all could be interpreted several ways- you were satisfied by chamber’s edit, had given up on the possibility of him being protown, or were content that some or all of {DH/Ixnay, Scalebane, STD} were removed.

Wild speculation: You preemptively clarifies how you knew Chess replaced Brizzy because you didn’t want it thought that you knew because they were mafia together and had talked overnight?

And, of course, I *still* don’t like how you went into motivations for killing CK.


STD:

Before I post the next one, we have a possible deadline coming up soon. I have two questions for EmpTyger:

Are you 100% decided that you're going to kill someone?

And can you make a list of at least three or four people you're considering on vigging in order?<snip>

Something theoretically could arise, but I feel there are more than enough targets of suspicion, so yes to vigkilling. Number 1 for me is Chess, but I would rather have consensus on my target. If the town has an alternate preference (or would rather lynch Chess), there are certainly others I could be persuaded to vigkill.


Ixnay:

<snip>And it’s a shame I already have a title. “Extremely Vague” amuses me.

Oooh I take it back. The shame is that I can’t have as my title “Vaguely Amusing”, which would combine that with my current one.

More relevantly, DH’s [63] doesn’t seem like the type of post an antitown would have made. I’m willing to think you innocent.

[MeMe]

That is one

hell

of an attention-grabbing post. I think I like it.

[olio]

I've never said it's logical for scum to want EmpTyger dead. Stop making false assumptions.

I never said you did.

Yes you did.

I am simply rejecting your premise that it is a logical action for scum to take.

Think WIFOM as a gambit in chess: you deliberately create a weakness in the opening so you'll be stronger later.

Can you unpack this a bit?

Gladly... after the game.

Why did you allow such a possibility to remain? Why weren't you blunt with your words? Why did you want to cause confusion?

Now you accept the possibilty in the statement? I was uncertain. I wanted to try to help, but I did now know what the information was at the time.

No, I don't accept it. I'm merely questioning you to get you deeper in your lie. If you are uncertain about something, say it straigth. Moreover, if you wanted to try to help, that doesn't match with the start of your post which goes "I don't have anything to add to the discussion". In my opinion, of course.

I accept no opinion as fact, you gave the impression that your opinion was "unchangable" which is a bad stance, only facts (what was literally written) are unchangeable.

Unchangable by

you

.

[EmpTyger]

AniX/Scalebane/Sentinel:
It’s interesting considering my suspicions how you 3 are the ones who aren’t voting with a deadline possibly to be imposed. AniX, as usual, is the worst offender, posting extensively elsewhere online.

[Scalebane]

wait wait wait. Did you fail to see:

Unvote?, Vote: Anix

'cause I am voting right now. Sorry I didn't realize that and point it out to the mod earlier. But I definately am voting, and I definately am currently voting Anix.

[AniX]

At this point, Emp, I would either vote Ixnay or Scalebane, based on the fact that Ixnay's "lynching the lurkers is good for the town, even if they themselves are town" is the scummiest(or most naive) theory I've heard all game, or Scalebane, who seems to have adopted a strategy of putting words in my mouth and attempting to revive the dead horse that is "ANIX IS A LURKER OMGUS!" Since he is number 2 in terms of number of votes currently, and one unvote (or one vote towards him) puts him in a tie for first, he would naturally be trying to throw whomever he could under the bus before him.

The Ixnay vote would bring us nowhere(since he would have a total vote tally of 1) and would basically be a wasted vote, so the basic question I must ask myself is: Do I feel, with a reasonable degree of certainty, that Scalebane is scum? My other option would be to vote Sen-99, but I am completely in the dark about him and lurker voting for the sake of lurker voting his late in the game will rarely turn out in our favor.

So, while the tactics I listed in the first paragraph are something of a concern, they aren't definitive proof Scalebane's guilt. Being the fact we don't have a huge amount of wiggle room in regard to killing townies (for more on this, see "AniX responds to Post 272". This response can be found in Post 275),I tend to be very paranoid of lynching people I'm iffy about. This reasoning is why my votes have been sparse(read: nonexistant). However, the town cannot afford to not lynch and the fact that, indeed, others are suspecting Scalebane independantly does put me somewhat more at ease that me finding things about Scalebane scummy are not one of my crazy pet theories only I understand.

So basically,

vote Scalebane

He is still far enough from a lynch (both in number of votes, which I believe is 6, and the wednesday deadline) for me to feel comfortable that this won't result in a scum gang-bang if he is town (which is a large factor in my overall lack of voting) but close enough that I feel we can start really pressuring him to start answering questions.

So, Scalebane: I have answered your challenge to vote. Now, perhaps you can answer my challenge: Why do you feel not voting is scummy? Just because you find it "different" from how most players play the game? Does different automatically lead to scum? Is that your sole reasoning? Or do you have a different explanation you would like to explain to the class?

[Ixnayonthehombre]

<snip>based on the fact that Ixnay's "lynching the lurkers is good for the town, even if they themselves are town" is the scummiest(or most naive) theory I've heard all game

Keep in mind that at this point, Sentinel hadn't posted in what was it, two weeks, three? MeMe probably knows. He wasn't really even playing in this game. He had already been prodded several times, and to no avail. We could've just replaced him, but I thought if it hadn't happened by then, it wasn't going to. And

Unvote:Sentinel99

'cuz he's back.

[Chess83]

Firstly,

@olio, read your post nothing new, so no response from me.

@emp, I was waiting for someone to catch this. I was surprised that it was CK, someone who was not extremly active or leading the town, those people (IMO) are nk targets. My contradiction about saying I would have voted for him is based on my skimming of the thread. I glazed over it trying to get the basic points down and failed to see the actions of the STD/Scale pair in front of me. As for the MeMe being scum thing, yes I mentioned it, but had (IMO) more evidence and likelyness of STD/SCALE being scum.

Right now, I am not completly sure who is scum. I am just watching and waiting till I see something that I can write about. When I do I will. I think I am still voting for Scale, but since I don't really know what is going on right now I and going to

UNVOTE

and seriosuly consider rereading d2 before voting again.

At this time, I have nothing further to add.

[Sentinel99]

Why did you bother to remove your random vote in [37]? Your D1 twilight post is a little bizarre still. But very little actual suspicion jumps out about; it’s the lurking and the replacement lie that are suspicious. I just do not believe your story about thinking you were already replaced; you said that you *do* need to be replaced, not that you *did* need to be replaced.

I removed my random vote because actual conversation was coming into play. It's something I always do. Now, I've tried explaining this, and nobody seems to believe me, which I totally understand, but it's starting to grate on the nerves a bit. I DID NOT LIE ABOUT REPLACEMENT. When I got back to the game, the thread was abuzz with the "replace Sentinel" sentiment. Also, the guest mod said I was replaced, only he didn't have my role. Ergo, I assumed that I was already out of the game. And I mispoke when I said "I do need to be replaced" I meant, deserved, as I've already said. Please, can we just let that go, and move on with the game? Also, sorry I didn't have time to go over the last half of the game this weekend. Went home for the holiday. I'll get cracking on that ASAP, as we're deadlined.

Lastly, if you want a vote, you're going to have to wait. I need to take a hard look at the last seven pages, otherwise I'm going to cast a vote based on first half information.

[EmpTyger]

I don’t believe Chess and AniX, and think them the best lynch/vig targets. But that’s just me; we need a majority for the lynch, and I’d like one for the vigkill as well. More importantly, what objections does anyone have? In particular, Chess/AniX: you in particular might want to ready your claims with the threat of a deadline. I for one am skeptical of your defenses.


Chess:
You have been having to rely too much on increasingly implausible maneuverings to argue your way out of the contradictions that olio and now I seem to keep finding.

<snip>@emp, I was waiting for someone to catch this.<snip>

You do realize that it’s usually antitowns who wait for the town to spot the errors they make. And antitowns who instead prepare remotely plausible excuses for how they made such a mistake. “waiting for someone to catch this”?


AniX:
I’ve read several times and am just getting more and more astounded by your rationale for voting in [358]. Are you even *trying* to find mafia?


Scalebane:
Sorry about that, was working off the mod’s incorrect votecount.


Sentinel:
Hm. Fair enough, on both issues, I suppose.

[Chess83]

Emp, I think any good player having seen his own mistake would keep it in the back of his mind and hope that nobody notices it. However, if someone does find it they should have they reply ready. I see how you would say it is scummy and personally I see how you think I would be scummy. However, my waiting for someone to find that mistake is simple, I changed my mind and I know that anytime someone's opinion changes in these games that makes them a target for discussion, which I am not afraid of. I still fail to see how I am cornered by Olio's argument. To me it seems that his argument and points against me are based on his unwillingness to admit the possibilty of my innocence. He reads my posts in the light of the preconcieved notion that I am scum, instead of approaching it in a logical way to discover if I am innocent or not.

As a note of warning, when/if I claim I will claim my role and name. I know this was an issue with Emp's claim so I wanted to give a heads up on that. I will claim at lynch-1. I believe I am at 2 votes now, 6 to lynch. So 3 more votes and I will fully claim.

Personally, I think going after me is a waste of time. Obv. I know my alignmnet, but there are now two people who are uncertain about me and seem to want to poke and prode me to discover my alignment. I am okay with that, it will satisfy your questions. I just ask that people excercise some reason and not charge after me or anyone else blindly

@Emp, are you suggesting a Anix/Chess team? Because if you are then if you lynch one of us and find them to be innocent, should you still vig the other?

[EmpTyger]

Chess:
I won’t speak for olio, but for me, it’s most definitely logical, not a blind charge; in fact, I *had* bought your earlier explanations and said as much in thread. But though your explanations have each time been plausible, there have been too many things for which you’ve had to give plausible explanations for. The suspicions taken together are much greater than any one individually.

You and AniX are most suspicious to me independent of each other. I don’t see how learning one of your alignments would influence my suspicion of the other. If you see how, then do explain.

Also, regarding your claim strategy, do remember that (unlike in my own case regarding a claim) there is also a possibility of you being vigkilled. Make sure that imminent lynch isn’t your only condition for claiming. This isn’t intended as a threat; you should not need to claim until there is consensus from the town.

[Save The Dragons]

I personally need a little more time...but after my classes today (or maybe even before) I'm going to pay much attention to this game.

[Chess83]

@Emp,
I was not linking Anix and I, I was asking if you were proposing a link. Because if you were then in the event that one of us were lynched and be proven innocent then other (being the second of the pair) would not necessairly be guilty. However, you clearified in saying that you found us to be scummy independiantly of each other, so no attempted pairing exists, this makes my point void.

If there is 6 people (being the majority) who type "@Chess - Please claim" I will also claim.

As for the plausible explanations the key here is that they are plausible in both directions. While I am unable to give a factual defense for Olio's points the truthful defense I give can only give air to the possibility of innocence which opposes the possibilty of guilt. I wonder why everone assumes guilt instead of assuming the possible innocence. Keep in mind that these "plausible" defenses are for plausible accusations.

[Sentinel99]

Okay, I vote we go all USA PATRIOT Act on Emp. Seriously, we're getting down to the wire, and you claim to have information that you also claim to know is bad for us. If you've got something legitimitely earth-shattering, now would be a good time to share. Otherwise... Hmm... I was about to advocate a lynch, but I don't know if you're scummy, per se. Hurting the town, yes. I'm going to

vote: EmpTyger

.

[Chess83]

Sentinel, can you expand on those accusations? I am not following how Emp is hurting the town and what not.

[MeMe]

nonny

: would you please confirm whether or not we're under threat of deadline? Given the fact that we've not been given a specific time for the deadline and that the last vote count was incorrect, I'm thinking that it would be rather crippling if the thread gets closed tomorrow.

I'm still pretty sold on my Sentinel vote -- but I can't find much wrong with Emp's points of suspicion against Chess. Point in his favor is that I think he's answered well...though I agree with Emp about the "waiting for someone to catch" oddity. When I err as town, I generally try to clarify before it becomes a red herring to town/weapon for scum.

Also, Sotty seems to be missing.

[Sentinel99]

Okay... This is hard to put into words...

By willfully withholding information, Emp could potentially be creating a situation in which the town will rush into a lynch uninformed. I think that if you have some solid evidence that the town can work on, than you should disclose it and allow everybody a chance to go over it. Maybe somebody can see things differently than you. I don't see how withholding information can help the town. I mean, maybe, holding out on roleclaims, I understand that, but that's not so much withholding, as it's expected in the game. Ultimately, Mafia is a team game. You can't look at things, try and figure it all out yourself, and then try and convince everybody to go along with you. If you do try that, you're branded scummy, as has happened to me before. In Urban Legends Mafia, I

knew

that one player was mafia, but since I hadn't been pointing all the giveaways out the whole time, the town was (rightfully) loath to believe me.

[olio]

I wonder why everone assumes guilt instead of assuming the possible innocence.

Because they are playing a game of mafia. This isn't a real world court where people are innocent until otherwise proved. In a game of mafia you shouldn't trust anyone and you shouldn't give anyone benefit of doubt (excluding role-based exceptions).

Sentinel, when was the last time Emp claimed "he has information that he also claims to know is bad for us"?

[Save The Dragons]

Revised list(my first one was gut based):

Scum?
Sentinel-stops his attack, goes after someone else
Olio-not sure all his attacks against chess are on the level
Meme-attack of lurkers
Ixnay-goes so far as to call sentinel mafia and then unvotes

Dunno
Anix-i'm unsure about his participation being particularly helpful for the town
Sotty-gut, but I don't have anything
Scalebane-gut, but I don't have anything
Chess-stopped being prolific

Town
Emp


@Chess-I'm neither going to request nor deny your claim at this time. You are being placed in a unique situation, where one player holds the power to kill you and is basically turning that into a second lynch. Even so, it is his discretion to kill and yours to claim. The thing is, if you claim in a certain way, emp's going to move on, and we're going to get one of two things:

1. lynch the townie
2. hidden mass claim

If I were under the gun, I'd don't think I'd claim, unless I had certain roles (although I'd also probably ask the town for thier opinion as well).

What else? I'm a little curious that you gave up on me so easily.

@Olio

I am curious what made you change your mind about Emp claiming his role. I am also curious who else you think is scum besides Chess. If Chess is the vigkill target, what are you going to do about the lynch?

I'm also not sure where Chess slipped. And I'm also not sure saying that you were voting for scalebane is a blantent, intentional lie.

@MeMe

What happens when we rid the world of lurkers? Where would your suspicions lie? I'm not sure we have that from you. Again, I ask why people are where they are in your list of suspicion.

@Scalebane

I'm tempted to see your role if it's going to play such an important part, but I don't think that's a good idea. All I have on you is a gut feeling, really.

@Emp

How far are you willing to keep the claim underwraps?

@Anix

Did you vote because you were pressured or because you wanted to? What percentage is Scalebane at?

@Sentinel

I applaud your vote even if I don't agree with it.

Also, it seems like you didn't finish your attack on me, and I wonder how you feel about me now.

And lastly, what do you hope to accomplish with this, looking back at what else has gone on about this issue?

@Ixnay

Why do you vote Sentinel, call him mafia, mention little reason when you vote, state he's lurking later, and then unvote him because of it?

Unvote Vote: Ixnay

[Scalebane]

So, Scalebane: I have answered your challenge to vote. Now, perhaps you can answer my challenge: Why do you feel not voting is scummy? Just because you find it "different" from how most players play the game? Does different automatically lead to scum? Is that your sole reasoning? Or do you have a different explanation you would like to explain to the class?

The reason why I found your voting tactic suspicious is because your lack of votes made the game much easier for you to play without drawing attention to yourself. When you didn't actually have to explain whatever you were thinking and you didn't even have to make any kind of case against whoever you said you found suspicious and you wouldn't even stick your neck out so far as to vote them, I found that suspicious. Basically, anyone (in my opinion) who is actively involved in trying to figure out who the scum are should probably be voting. Your lack of votes was in large part a symptom of your wishy-washy lurker playstyle.

[MeMe]

@MeMe

What happens when we rid the world of lurkers? Where would your suspicions lie? I'm not sure we have that from you.

I vote lurkers when there's no one I find more suspicious than the lurkers. Right now I'm voting the active Sentinel99.

Again, I ask why people are where they are in your list of suspicion.

Sorry, I didn't quite realize you were expecting me to answer -- thought you were just mentioning that I didn't expound at the time. My list of suspicion is now a month old and I stated that it hadn't changed much more than two weeks ago. But, sure, I can tell you what I was thinking at the time.

Those I can't imagine voting today: Chess83, EmpTyger, MeMe

Chess83

: because his initial analysis of the game looked like someone searching for answers to me.

EmpTyger

: I believe him.

Me

: duh

Those I could totally see voting today: Sentinel99, Sotty7, AniX, Scalebane (that order)

Sentinel99

: His twilight post is still so incriminating in my eyes. His lurking didn't help.

Sotty7

: a note I made about her day one said that she "seems to want to wait to see which way the wind is blowing before committing to a vote" (specific example: defended chamber's reasoning, but then said he looked "jumpy" -- looked like she was trying to have it both ways). I think that fairly typifies her play this whole game. She's also posted less often/less content than I, but insists on accusing me for being "on the edge" of discussions while ignoring those who participation is barely there.

AniX

: lurker. mid-level suspicion based on that and his responses when I called him on it.

Scalebane

: based on a day one observation that he was willing to side with me rather vocally -- when chamber came up town, I wondered if that's because he thought I could take the fall as the leader of the lynch. Also, he's perpetuated the misinformation that I've only been lurker hunting.

Those I could, given a compelling argument, be talked into voting today: Ixnayonthehombre, olio, Save The Dragons

These three are just people for whom I'd not noted neither particularly suspicious nor innocent behavior.