Mini 368: Town Of Suspicion - Game over!

[lordy]

A voice rang out in the town. it is the annoying moderator, and you all feel like slapping him to shut him out. However, he contiunes screaming about his brang new toy, aka. the votecount. You all were subjected to 5 minutes of auditory torture.

Rosso Carne: 1 (AmeliaSlay)
Machiavellian-Mafia: 1 (Machiavellian-Mafia)
Petroleum Jelly: 1 (loud mouth lee)
Thok: 3: Petroleum-Jelly, Cognito Ergo Sum, Al_kohaulec
LoudmouthLee: 1 (Thok)

12 in town, 7 to lynch.

[mith]

I don't find what petroleumjelly said initially (or in arguing with LML) particularly unreasonable. I do find it interesting that he is still voting for Thok, though.

Speaking of which, did I miss the memo on Thok?

Normally I'd vote for CES now, but I'm torn between him and MM for his self-vote. Either of you have an explanation?

[petroleumjelly]

Is there a reason I should unvote Thok?

He hasn't exactly contributed to discussion since his first post, and it's not as if Thok is in any danger: it takes seven to lynch, and the three votes on him are not nearly enough basis to even

consider

pushing for a claim. The level of play in this game pretty much assures that he is

not

going to be quicklynched or any such thing.

In any case, considering my scumgroup theory of {Thok, Machiavellian-Mafia, mith}, you asking for me to unvote Thok only helps solidify my suspicions.

Normally I'd vote for CES now, but I'm torn between him and MM for his self-vote. Either of you have an explanation?

Hmm. Maybe it's {Thok, Cogito Ergo Sum, mith}. My mind is still reasonably open.

[LoudmouthLee]

I'm starting to think you threw that in there so we would subconsciously think you're town by going through the negative interpretation: namely, "LML says he didn't know that scum could nighttalk, therefore he must be town". This is why it's a good thing to read over the rules of games: to gain information to start off with. It is very relevant to games as to whether or not scum/masons/etc. are allowed to talk to each other before games begin, since they can strategize... whereas with night-talking disallowed, they have to go on the fly.

I am finding it hard to believe you failed to notice this rule, especially since the latest discussion has been focused on the information given by the Mod in the first few posts (which would make me think that everybody would at least glance over the rules and the Townie PM for themselves before contributing to discussion).

Can you explain why you made that statement without even reading up on the rules? In fact, that line is directly above the townie role PM. How on earth could you miss it?

Okay. Time for me to come clean. This will forever tarnish my reputation, but since the majority of you know me so well, it won't come of much of a surprise.

I NEVER read the rules of a mafia game, unless the mechanics (Verbose comes to mind) force me to read the rules.

I also know that there are a plethora of players, many of them GOOD PLAYERS, who do the same thing.

Now, you can easily throw this back at me (as I could be scum trying to play you all here). I'm not. I just assume I know the rules of Mafia by now.

That makes me feel sheepish to say. However, you unwittingly give the town (and the scum info)

Can you explain why you made that statement without even reading up on the rules? In fact, that line is directly above the townie role PM. How on earth could you miss it?

PJ.... you're definately smart enough here. Figure it out.

Now, it solidifies something I was prettty sure of before, now positive of.

My vote is definately staying on PJ for now. I strongly suggest you all follow me on this.

Hint: This comment is reminicent of Antrax's comment Day 1 of the invitational. Antrax should have been lynched then, too. You weren't as explicit, though. So I may just be reading you way too deeply.

[petroleumjelly]

Well, I was gettting ready to

respond

to your post, but lo and behold, there is nothing to actually respond to.

You are essentially voting for me (and encouraging others to do so) because I took the time to read the rules of the game, as well as the Townie role PM in detail.

Can you explain why you made that statement without even reading up on the rules? In fact, that line is directly above the townie role PM. How on earth could you miss it?

PJ.... you're definately smart enough here. Figure it out.

How about you tell me what I am supposed to "figure out" instead of you vaguely insinuating towards something?

Do you think I read that line incorrectly? It is very clear to me that all roles with night-talking abilities had the chance to talk to each before the game began, and I gained that information because

I took the time to read the rules

. Simply because

you

do not does not disqualify others from doing so. I am not understanding the "point" you are making here, and I

have

read the Invitational with Antraxscum.

[LoudmouthLee]

Well. Could it be POSSIBLE that you would know the exact location of the townie PM (and the other references) because you obviously didn't read the townie PM elsewhere? (as in your Role PM?)

[petroleumjelly]

And actually, the more I think about this argument, the stupider it seems to be. Here are some questions for LML:

1.) Why do you consider it "scummy" to suggest there is one scum group in the game, and that that scum group is mafia, when the town has been given reasonable information to believe that is so?

2.) [Complete WIFOM] Suppose I am part of the mafia group. What incentive would I have to make sure the town thinks there is only a mafia group? Doing so would only cut off my options

later

in the game, so that I could not claim Serial Killer at endgame, or try to confuse the town with "maybe there's a cult, we should start suspecting people who were 'cleared'!".

Subset question:

A.) What will I have gained if it is later shown that there are other scum, whether that entails a Serial Killer, Cult Leader, or something else (which would disprove my theory anyways)?

*****

Well. Could it be POSSIBLE that you would know the exact location of the townie PM (and the other references) because you obviously didn't read the townie PM elsewhere? (as in your Role PM?)

Now you are fishing.

I read the rules, and the opening posts. My memory has this odd quality of...

remembering things

, especially when I have just recently read them. Just like I remember that the opening posts were Thok, Al_Ko, Al_Ko, PJ, mith, LML, LML, PJ (I can't remember the next post off the top of my head right now, although I would wager it was a response from LML), I also remembered the placement of the townie role PM in the opening posts.

Are you trying to

find

reasons to be suspicious of me? I am not impressed.

[LoudmouthLee]

I will digress.

I'm not trying to find reasons, but, IMHO, I am finding lots of little things that don't sit well with me.

As for your points.

1.) Why do you consider it "scummy" to suggest there is one scum group in the game, and that that scum group is mafia, when the town has been given reasonable information to believe that is so?

Because we havent had a night yet. Because you're trying to outguess the mod. I don't like it.

2.) [Complete WIFOM] Suppose I am part of the mafia group. What incentive would I have to make sure the town thinks there is only a mafia group? Doing so would only cut off my options later in the game, so that I could not claim Serial Killer at endgame, or try to confuse the town with "maybe there's a cult, we should start suspecting people who were 'cleared'!".

You could be a serial killer looking for an out. I've seen serial killers forgo all kills and wait until the very end. It's brutal.. and excellent play. Soething you're capable of. It just seemed premature (we havent had a night) to make that insinuation, and STILL strikes me as odd..

A.) What will I have gained if it is later shown that there are other scum, whether that entails a Serial Killer, Cult Leader, or something else (which would disprove my theory anyways)?

I believe I refenced that. Devistating for an SK to play as a townie and withhold kills.

Now you are fishing.

I read the rules, and the opening posts. My memory has this odd quality of... remembering things, especially when I have just recently read them. Just like I remember that the opening posts were Thok, Al_Ko, Al_Ko, PJ, mith, LML, LML, PJ (I can't remember the next post off the top of my head right now, although I would wager it was a response from LML), I also remembered the placement of the townie role PM in the opening posts.

Not fishing.. shaking off the rust.

You must have an amazing memory. I'm a teacher. I forget everything.. especially about the placeent of words on a page. Especially when I have more important things to remember.. like where I put my teeth.

[petroleumjelly]

I think our arguments boils down to this:

I am trying to speculate on the scum groups, and my speculation is (in my mind) perfectly reasonable since it is based on information the mod has given the town. You do not like speculation on scum groups (because you fear ulterior motives), so you find me suspicious.

You must have an amazing memory. I'm a teacher. I forget everything.. especially about the placeent of words on a page. Especially when I have more important things to remember.. like where I put my teeth.

My memory is selective, and certainly not amazing: I just happened to recall the general happenings of this particular game (I remember the Thok/Al_Ko/Al_Ko/PJ because the three of us were in scumchat talking about who would nab the first post, and from there, we had mith pop in asking LML a question who then responded and voted for me accompanied by a clarification post, after which I responded to LML. And I just checked back, and yes, LML did respond to me directly after that).

As for your teeth, they are currently embedded into my arm. You can take them back whenever you like.

[Ameliaslay]

Says the person who chews on Glorkie's arm... talk about hypocrisy can't let LML have the same opportunity as what you choose to indulge in... You should wear those dentures as a sign of pride...

[petroleumjelly]

Mmmm, Glork arms... *drools*

Where is Glorkish anyhow? He should seriously have signed up for this game. Tsk, tsk.

Mod

, can we please get prods on:
Seol
PookytheMagicalBear
Tyfo

It's possible that they don't know the game has started.

[Seol]

I just realised the game started yesterday, but was too wiped to post.

So far: PJ seems reasonable, LML's rampaging but the only real impression I'm left with was that Lee wanted a scuffle. His position was to a degree understandable, but massively overstated. I think it's time to move on.

And how else could I possibly end the post, other than

vote: CES

(don't worry, LML, you're still my mortal enemy - CES is just my day 1 bitch)?

[Thok]

Unless lordy made a serious mistake in his phrasing of the townie PM, LML's argument with PJ (especially the reference to the invitational, if I understand it correctly) is either him dramatically trying to outguess the mod or borderline fishing. I'm not sure I'd willing using to use the argument between them as a basis for a lynch of either of them, but I will keep the implications of this argument in mind.

I'm not exactly how much PJ wants me to contribute to the discussion at the moment (which seems to be his claimed reason for continuing to vote me); the only issues for the moment are a bunch of frivolous votes on me, an MM self vote, and a debate about the townie PM between LML and PJ.

I wil say that CES and Rosso are basically doing their current schtick, which makes both of them poor imitations of Fritzler. (Neither should be mentioned in the same sentence as BJ or IS). In the absence of any scum tells by anybody else in the game I'd vote them, but for now their behavior is essentially a null tell.

MM is doing a Lloyd imitation. I have no idea why.

So, it's time for something different.

unvote LML, vote Pooky

and let's see what happens.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

vote CES

*flying huggles Seol*(I'll try to forgive you for dat last time you broke my poor heart)

[petroleumjelly]

I wasn't waiting for anything in particular, Thok: there was just no reason for me to unvote you.

Unvote: Thok, Vote: Rosso Carne

. Rosso has clearly checked up on the game, but his last post did a net total of nothing. He could, at the very least, have commented on the debate LML and I were having at the time, or perhaps he could have slapped a random vote on somebody. He pretty much may as well have just not posted at all, at this point.

[al_kohaulec]

Rosso? Who should we HAMMAH today?

thok.

I'd hammah.

Thank you Rosso, the rest of the scum group agress too.

unvote

I wanna be the HAMMAH, not the bandwagon starter.

Ok, CES's third unexplained vote

is

in fact very suspicious, but in the context in which it was used, I'm going to note it for future reference.

As for PJ and LML, first of all, thanks for giving us discussion so early in the game. Who needs random voting now? I think LML is attacking PJ too much on the topic though, much more than he needs to be, but he has a point in PJ pointing out so publically that he believes there to be only one mafia. IMO you shouldn't speculate on that until after at least one night, and after one night, I don't see speculation on it as a scummy thing to do. Knowing if there's one scum group vs. multiple scum groups can be very helpful. Sometimes you can tell when two players are obviously not of the same alignment. If there's only one scum group, and one of those two are scum, then the other is likely town. If there's multiple scum groups, then that other player could still be scum, just in another group.

MM is doing a Lloyd imitation. I have no idea why.

That's a biiiig mistake. PJ will back me up on this one. (I sure hope MM isn't a mason.)



@PJ's last post
in reference to the random vote part, I think we're already past the random voting stage, we have some good discussion points up now. Besides, his HAMMAH target had 3 votes on him.

[mith]

pj: Why leave it on? There was enough discussion to form better-than-random suspicions. I don't buy the bit about him not having contributed; the game was barely a day old.

I will

Vote: Machiavellian-Mafia

for now. The self-vote bugs me a little more. That may change if CES doesn't come through with some content in his next post, though.

[petroleumjelly]

pj: Why leave it on? There was enough discussion to form better-than-random suspicions. I don't buy the bit about him not having contributed; the game was barely a day old.

When you asked me why I didn't unvote Thok, that was in Post 26 of the game. The discussion going on was solely between myself and LML: since I didn't think LML was very scummy in his argument (although I think he pressed it a bit too far), I didn't feel like voting for him. Nobody else had really "contributed" in the same sense, and since switching my vote would have been pretty much just as random as my initial random vote, there was no reason for me to move it around, especially when Thok was in absolutely no danger.

[Tyfo]

The game started already? And there's already so much to catch up to.

Random vote: al_kohaulec

[LoudmouthLee]

We've all checked in? Wonderful.

I will now

Unvote: PJ

, as he did not crack to my "overstated accusations".

Since this is Day 1 in a "night-actionless" day, Let's look at the players and figure out who the best bandwagon would be on. I'll give you a hint, it ebds with -ith.

Vote: Mith

Here's why:

Not counting CES (who strikes me, no offense) to be idiotic for the sake of being an idiot, Mith has done the most of "posting without posting anything of content."

****METAGAME WARNING***

I mean, seriously. Mith could have easily taken a stand in the rules conversation. He was active and posting. Instead, he ducked. He's been absolutely non-commital about everything, except for the questioning of PJ's continued vote on Thok.

But then.. he follows it up with:

pj: Why leave it on? There was enough discussion to form better-than-random suspicions. I don't buy the bit about him not having contributed; the game was barely a day old.

and then goes and votes MM for the self vote. Seems like hypocracy to me. I would like some posts of content from Mith besides the "posting to get your post count up" posts from you. It makes you look relatively shady.

A dash of

FoS: Tyfo

for seeing that the thread was up and POSTING a random vote when you just needed to sift through three pages.

and a

Stronger FoS

to CES for continuing to play like a chicken without a head. How about you help with the discussion before you try you best to play like IS.

If Mith manages to make me feel better about him, I will advote running up wither Tyfo or CES.

[al_kohaulec]

Ok, LML's latest post makes me feel better about him now. His points

were

over the hill, but the reasoning was good. Trying to make PJ crack under the pressure, which didn't happen.

He also brings up good points on Mith which are true, and I thinkI've seen only one other person point them out so far.

[al_kohaulec]

We also haven't heard much from Pooky, but of course it's still early in the game.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Ok, CES's third unexplained vote is in fact very suspicious, but in the context in which it was used, I'm going to note it for future reference.

Oh please, I always prefer a bandwagon vote over a random one. That vote was in no way indicative of my alignment. A fourth vote, maybe, but certainly not the third.

Also

OMGUS strongest FoS: LmL

for exaggeration and attacking me over my playstyle.

Current scum group guess: Thok, LmL, lurker

[petroleumjelly]

Hmm, that's tell #2 going towards a possible mith-CES connection. I already pointed out the first:

Normally I'd vote for CES now, but I'm torn between him and MM for his self-vote. Either of you have an explanation?

"I

would

vote my partner, but I would much rather not."

And after we have LML coming in and voting mith, we have:

Also

OMGUS strongest FoS: LmL

for exaggeration and attacking me over my playstyle.

"You're attacking my partner! You're suspicious!"

As it is, I pretty much agree with LML's vote, and I might add my vote depending on mith's response. Also, I am getting the feeling that mith is

trying

to make keeping a random vote on Thok is somehow "suspicious", when in fact, there is nothing suspicious about it.

That said, I would like to see an answer to this question:

Why is it "suspicious" to keep a random vote on somebody if it takes seven to lynch, and there are only three votes on that person (none of them serious), and any other vote I would have placed would have been for just a random a reason anyways?

You are making it sound like I have an "obligation" to unvote if Thok reaches three votes during the random stage. That cannot be true, because then the obligation would fall on others into not placing a third random vote on Thok the first place, since that would result in Thok being at two votes anyways, thereby accomplishing nothing.

@ Alky: If M-M is seriously going to consider playing like Lloyd, bad, bad things will happen.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

MM is doing a Lloyd imitation. I have no idea why.

That's a biiiig mistake. PJ will back me up on this one. (I sure hope MM isn't a mason.)

Ok first I have no idea who Lloyd is and how I am imitating him by self-voting, can anyone enlighten me?

I will Vote: Machiavellian-Mafia for now. The self-vote bugs me a little more

How is my self-vote bugging you? I just thought I would change things up from my usual random dice-rolling voting by voting myself and see how others react.