Mini 343: Donnie Darko 0:0:0:0 Game Over

[Sentinel99]

Okay, getting ready for a complete reread, starting at Post One, and reading all the way through. Also, to clarify, I didn't mean "need" to be replaced, as in I can't play anymore. I meant "need" as in my prolonged abscences were a detriment to the game. Perhaps I more closely meant "deserve" to be replaced. And I honestly am sorry about the absences. If I had realized how crazy things were going to get (in my life), I wouldn't have joined the game, or I would have asked for a replacement after I was in. I realize that I'm going to have to work my arse off to regain any semblance of trust from you guys at this point, so I guess I'll get to it.

[Chess83]

I knew you were going to write that. And that is why I wrote this...

The only thing I have to offer is my stance on the Sentinel replacement issue which is not dealing with the GAME in truth.

This does not deal with the game in itself, it deals with how stays/is replaced. Contribution to the game is more of dicussing who is scum and why, suspicions and what not. I think you are digging a little too deep on this topic now.

As for the rest.

I've never said it's logical for scum to want EmpTyger dead. Stop making false assumptions.

I never said you did. I was just point out that you calling me scum and giving that reason was illogical, as the action in question was an illogical scum move. You need to stop reading into posts so much. Read what was written, not what you think.

Think WIFOM as a gambit in chess: you deliberately create a weakness in the opening so you'll be stronger later.

Can you unpack this a bit?

Why did you allow such a possibility to remain? Why weren't you blunt with your words? Why did you want to cause confusion?

Now you accept the possibilty in the statement? I was uncertain. I wanted to try to help, but I did now know what the information was at the time.

Why do you take them as facts? I've never said they're anything but opinions, opinions which I believe in.

You have closed your mind to the possibilty that you were wrong, thus accepting your own opinion in a factual way. This happened many times, if you want quotes I will give them to you. I accept no opinion as fact, you gave the impression that your opinion was "unchangable" which is a bad stance, only facts (what was literally written) are unchangeable.

@EMP - Yes I realize that, and I again say that Sentinel is free and should not be replaced. The only thing that Sentinel's signing up for another game proves is that he signed up for ANOTHER game, be it a week ago or a month ago. Sentinel said he had time now, so... catch up and play the game. Again, responsibility, you signed up for this game you play this game.

[MeMe]

Not to beat this into the ground, but since I brought it up I want the point I was making to be

clear

. Sentinel99 signed up to play a new game 12 minutes after he said he needed to be replaced in here.

And, yes, I've seen S99's post clarifying his meaning. This is not a commentary on that -- just a response to Chess83's "be it a week ago or a month ago" comment which showed he didn't have the full picture.

[Chess83]

For the sake of distracting the town this is the last post I am making on this topic.

My comment on be it a week ago or a month ago was ment to convey the fact that I don't care when he signed up for the game. It is his responsibility to finish what he began, thus I am asking him (it seems he is doing this anyway) to continue to play this game by making an effort to catch up and contribute to the game as it is currently going on. Personally, I find the fact that his new game post was 12 mins after his post on here. IMO, he should finish this game. Again, I don't care about the time frame, my "beef," as it were, is responsibility. I thank S99 for taking up the burden of responsibility and catching up, provided he does what he says he is doing.

[Save The Dragons]

You [Scalebane] also seem overdefensive in clarifying STD's remarks.

The day comes around full circle.

To Do List:

Scalebane
MeMe
Anix
Sotty

(this is more for my sake, it'll make more sense once I start crossing names off.)

[Sentinel99]

Okay, caught up... more or less. This has been a convoluted game with a ton of twists and turns. Looking back and trying to stay objective has helped, as has letting a lot of the "at the moment" fade from the posts. I tend to get a little heady when I'm reading through as they unfold. Perspective really helps. This has been a really good game, and I wish I had remained active throughout.

I think that STD is the scummiest. He seems to have a freakishly strong hold on the popular sentiment in this game. In my notes, I wrote down that in post 26, STD seems to be deliberately spinning chamber's comments. This could just be an honest misunderstanding, but it doesn't feel that way to me. There seems to be a definite link between STD and Scale, however, that I can't figure. Scale has followed STD since the earliest stages. Could just be a coincidental agreement, a compliment of playstyles, but I doubt it. We can't really afford to assume coincidence in this game.

MeMe, also disturbs me, but that's prolly largely just OMGUS-bias creeping in. The biggest problems I've had with MeMe are from the very beginning of the game when she jumps all over chamber within half an hour of asking him questions. That, and I just don't really care for her playstyle, but I really don't think that I can do anything about that, nor should I. MeMe is pretty pro-town in my book.

Chess is my favorite player so far, he's contributed more than just about anybody. Emp kind of freaked me out with his claim of CK's death. I'm having trouble finding the point that we backed down from the danger-zone there, meaning I can't seem to find the post that causes us to accept the vig claim.

Nobody else has really jumped out at me.

[Chess83]

@ Sent99 - I think the logic was something like this... "A Vig is a common character, Emp claimed Vig without a counter claim; therefore, Emp is probably a vig." That and it just would not make much sense for anyone else to claim Vig and the nk. It would be a strech of reason for scum to do that. and a SK would be stupid as they would just draw attetion to themselves, which is something most SKs would not want to do. So yeah, for the time being it was just kinda silently accepted. "Consent by silence" I believe is the political term.

[Sentinel99]

Okay, thanks for clarifying. I probably would've known that, if I'd bothered to keep up at the time.

So, currently, who does everyone suspect most? Besides me. I know that I've got a lot of work to do to gain any sembalence of credibility. ... Deja vu... did I already say that?

[Save The Dragons]

I have a question for Chess:

What Sentinal accused me of was a lot of the things you accused me of. Do you still find me scummy? Do you still believe in a connection between me and Scalebane?

[Chess83]

Honestly, I am unsure of who I find the scummiest. I have been distracted as I think most of us have by my discussion with olio. I still have some reservation and think there may be a link between you and Scale but have seen no recent evidence to substatiate such a claim at this time.

So... yes and no. I still find you scummy but not as much. I still think there may be connection between you and scale, again, not as much.

[Chess83]

I will be out of town this afternoon till monday evening

sorry about the double post, wanted to make sure everybody saw this.

[MeMe]

What I

really

need right now is a vote count.

[Sentinel99]

Now, this is in no way objective, but if there is a link between Scale and STD, then they could have knocked it off when Chess mentioned it. Maybe I'm grasping at straws here, but that's one way I see it.

[nonny]

Possible deadline coming, will tell you when in the vote count I'm posting later tonight

[Sotty7]

Glad to see Sentinel99 back and participating. I still don't like how he went from “I need to be replaced” to “I thought I was already replaced.” If anything that made him leap up in scumminess. Considering he was number two on my list, that's not really a good thing.

Wow, did nobody else read that? First off, he points out the fact that he refuses to vote in this game, ever.

He never said that. He said “If I was voting right now, I would vote...” Sounds like you're trying to put words in his mouth here. The whole attack on AniX felt like a reach really and I feel quite happy with my vote. I could be biased towards your agreements however because I still think you are scum, but I don't really see him badly attacking Ixnay. In fact he doesn't even vote for him. Your points about him being actively lurking are valid, but the timing of this vote just seems a little off and a little late.

I think that STD is the scummiest. He seems to have a freakishly strong hold on the popular sentiment in this game. In my notes, I wrote down that in post 26, STD seems to be deliberately spinning chamber's comments. This could just be an honest misunderstanding, but it doesn't feel that way to me. There seems to be a definite link between STD and Scale, however, that I can't figure. Scale has followed STD since the earliest stages. Could just be a coincidental agreement, a compliment of playstyles, but I doubt it. We can't really afford to assume coincidence in this game.

I know Chess already posted about a possible link between Scale and STD, but could you explain how

you

got this idea? Show a few examples and explain why you think so. Has STD done anything else that you think is scummy apart from the Chamber situation? Or does this possible link with Scale make him seem more scummy to you? If so doesn't this mean you find Scale more scummy than STD?

I'd appreciate some clarification on your part because you have been silent for a big portion of the game and knowing how you reached these conclusions would help the town

[Sentinel99]

Okay, the first time STD caught my eye was post 26, when it felt like he was trying to spin things against chamber. Largely this was due to the fact that I didn't see the lynch, as we all remember. Scale jumps in at post 33 with weak logic, then backs it up in 36, after Sotty calls him on it. Then Scale mentions grammer as a factor in his vote (says that he tries to not vote because of grammatical errors, I believe), then claims that chamber's logic and reasoning are weak. Then, in post 40, scale blows all the work he's just put into it by trying to further clarify. Claims that the first vote on somebody is a bandwagon attempt on the part of chamber. He completely ignores the other facet of the debate. Not necessarily scummy, per se, but a common mistake EVERYBODY makes when arguing.

Post 41, STD argues that chamber is contradicting himself, when chamber was clarifying two different points in the post that STD references. STD leaves this out, takes things out of context.

(Post 61, Emp seems to misunderstand the whole chamber/MeMe thing, says that AniX is at the center of the debate. It was never really about AniX at all, it was about the act of "lurker hunting".)

(MeMe: in 112 you say that my posts don't support my claim of pointing out chamber's game habits. This has been a serious sticking point for you. Post 59, the fourth sentence. I didn't expressly say what I was saying there. For future reference, I will always spell out exactly what I mean.)

Post 119... so much in Post 119. Instead of trying to clarify any questions brought against him, STD alternates between being obstinate ("prove it") and goofing off, when I thought there were some legitimate concerns voiced. He backtracks a little with post 127, but it was mostly trying to justify post 119.

Post 131, STD says he's voting AniX for not posting after being "laid back and noncommital" the previous day. ... Right... So, it was a scumtell that he continued to act the exact same as he did the day before?

Emp questions MeMe about possibly killing CK, and then claims it himself all in a couple posts. *shrug* Still confused by the claim.

Post 149, STD pulls his pressure vote off. AniX didn't contribute, but he removed anyway. I think it was a kind of failed bandwagon, and then getting ready to jump all over Emp.

158-160, seems like MeMe is on to something, and then just... Nope. Okay. All done.

Post 170, STD (possibly protecting his scum buddy) mentions that there is a legitimate case building against Scale, but he would prefer to lynch somebody who just isn't posting. What kind of logic is that? When you've got a Scale in the hand, you're gonna go after AniX in some bush?

Okay, so that's the first half of the game. I'll let you guys digest and work on the second half tomorrow.

[Scalebane]

Sotty:

Anix: Show me where you've voted and I'll point out how you're not scum. Oh wait.

My comment about you "pointing out that you've never voted" was simply regarding your "if I was voting, I would vote" comment. It drew attention to the very absence of any votes in the game so far. I, in fact, would not have really noted it if you hadn't made that really weird comment with regards to Ixnay. Why not just vote him already?

Me explaining what you just asked me to explain. And am I the only one who thinks it weird that anix hasn't voted by page 14 of this game?

[Save The Dragons]

A lot of the stuff I've defended, and if there's anything you want me to talk about that I haven't done so yet, I will, but I'd like to talk about Post 119 briefly.

Chess was posting so many nonpoints/assumptions, i.e. it was in my evil plan to kill chamber, or that I was either scum or dumb. There is no way in hell I'm going to take those accusations seriously, because they are distortions of facts, so I didn't. Any facts that Chess present against me, i.e. "chamber is posting coherent logic," i responded to, (like, "Prove it," which you said was obstinate, but I meant to be like, "please, explain how chamber was making sense, because from my vantage point, we were speaking two different languages."

You've done the same thing Chess has done, but you're lucky, cuz I'm not feeling sarcastic.

Post 170, STD (possibly protecting his scum buddy) mentions that there is a legitimate case building against Scale, but he would prefer to lynch somebody who just isn't posting. What kind of logic is that? When you've got a Scale in the hand, you're gonna go after AniX in some bush?

This is a distortion of fact. Lesson!

Fact:

I'm tempted to join the Scalewagon but not convinced enough to do so over Anix.

Of course I'm going to go after the Anix in the bush if I feel that it's better than the Scale in the hand because there is no Scale in my hand. It was like...near my hand, or in a different bush, or something, but that bush was farther away, or was on fire, or some other thing that makes it less desirable.

However, I don't want to strawman you, so I again I repeat my invitation to tell me anything specifically you want dealt with. If you want me to justify my actions for everything in your post, I will gladly comply.

[EmpTyger]

Running to lunch but finally got to do a reread. Will post more tonight or tomorrow.

[AniX]

Sotty:

Anix: Show me where you've voted and I'll point out how you're not scum. Oh wait.

My comment about you "pointing out that you've never voted" was simply regarding your "if I was voting, I would vote" comment. It drew attention to the very absence of any votes in the game so far. I, in fact, would not have really noted it if you hadn't made that really weird comment with regards to Ixnay. Why not just vote him already?

Me explaining what you just asked me to explain. And am I the only one who thinks it weird that anix hasn't voted by page 14 of this game?

I don't like to vote people unless I'm better-than-failing (65%) certain that the person is scum. Most people are hovering about the 30% or so "I KNOW these people are scum." range, with Ixnay closest to the top at about 55%ish (with Emp jumping all over the place (me thinking he is scum-wise)like a glitch in the matrix for me to get any percent at all)

However, I might just follow your "advise" and vote someone very soon if this paticular someone continues his increasely scummy tactic of finding a dead horse, attempting to necromance it, and than beating it to death. This is not a threat, just an adknowledgement that my scum-sense is starting to twitch.

[Save The Dragons]

I applaud your use of the verb "necromance."

[Sentinel99]

I know I said I'd get cracking on the second half of this game, but it's like 1 in the morning, and I'm exhausted. I'll try and give it a go tomorrow, but I can't make any promises. Holiday weekend and all.

[Ixnayonthehombre]

Ixnay closest to the top at about 55%ish

Because I voted Sentinel for lurking and suggested you for the nightkill?

[nonny]

Vote Count:

Sentinel99 (3): MeMe, Save The Dragons, Ixnayonthehombre
Scalebane (2): Chess83, Sotty7
Chess83 (1): olio

Not Voting: AniX, Sentinel99, Scalebane, EmpTyger

there ya go meme.

Tenative deadline for this coming wednesday.

[Save The Dragons]

To Do List:

Scalebane

MeMe
Anix
Sotty

Scalebane

Posts: 32

Post 1: random
Post 2: votes chamber
Post 3: fixes vote
Post 4: says he votes based off of chamber's logic
Post 5: his take on the MeMe chamber clash, calling it a possible attempt by chamber to bandwagon
Post 6: wants chamber to fight
Post 7: wonders why Anix is waiting
Post 8: reiterates Post 6 and states Chamber has accused half the game
Post 9: says Sentinels post is factually inacurate
Post 10: speculates about the kill
Post 11: more speculation
Post 12: explains why he speculated and defends himself against chess. explains why he's watching sotty.
Post 13: again defends against Chess, bringing up the point that Chess's main point against Scale is GBA.
Post 14: Votes EmpTyger (but makes a point about it not being OMGUS)
Post 15: agrees with hombre
Post 16: irrelevent (and sorry...I changed my avatar and can't change it back )
Post 17: asks for Emp's name
Post 18: defends himself against Emp, interesting things about his own role
Post 19: explains why he missed some people mentioning CK
Post 20: irrelevent
Post 21: says emp is not cleared just because he claimed.
Post 22: says he'll post soon
Post 23: says he's happy with his vote and he's waiting for a name claim
Post 24: Clarifies why he'll claim if pressured, unvotes
Post 25: gives list of vig targets
Post 26: gives analysis on certain people
Post 27: says lynching Emp isn't a great idea, and says he's suspects chess
Post 28: says he's here and that there's lots of lengthy posts
Post 29: dp
Post 30: votes Anix for his lack of vote
Post 31: reiterates Anix's lack of vote
Post 32: reiterates Anix's lack of vote

Overall: Ok. So he's on the chamberwagon. I obviously don't find this particularly scummy. However, in post 25, he puts me on top of the vig list, for leading the chamberwagon. He then refers to Chess's posts in general. The same Chess who he says,

If you're going to keep accusing me of being mafia while only replying to STD's posts, please understand that I will have a hard time taking anything you say seriously.

So I'm a little surprised.

Although I'm also wondering why he's hinting at his own claim being a major part of his defense. That makes me less likely to want to lynch him. But for all I know, he could be scum blowing smoke.

I think he has a point against Anix, but I want to read the exchange again before I reserve judgement.