Mini 1372 - Over

[N]

Pretty sure I did a bit later, once I'd had time to try and understand what he was trying to say.

[Slandaar]

distancing and bussing

Write it in your own words; what is the difference?

[Sable Tip]

Where are my examples? I asked you to provide examples where guppy did this. I mean you make the accusation, right now without examples they look baseless. Support your arguments or admit you were wrong.

Your all scum for lurking.

Y'know, some of us have lives that don't revolve around checking the thread non-stop. It's neither a scumtell nor a towntell.

Taking a joke too seriously.

I'm a townie, by the way. Just wanted you all to know that.

Bad play.

@Dunhamganger, I only claimed my role because it was the only other way I could think of besides a random vote to generate content. Problem?

Crap logic.

And I'd rather not see an innocent lynch today. Especially not mine.

FoS: Benmage

Not voting for you just yet. I don't want the scum to hammer so quickly.

Considered post but still bad play.

You make a good point, Ben. Sadly it's too late for me to do anything about it now.

Where the hell is everybody else?

Considered post, trying to back away from the previous bad play.

It doesn't matter what I post here, someone will call it scummy and hammer me. Oh, well, at least I still have my perfect record.

@Robb, I sense your question is rhetorical, but I'm missing your point, because I don't know which side has more to fear.

@Sable Tip, I genuinely believe your vote is town-motivated.

@N, could you please justify your vote?

@Slaandar, could you please...actually, nevermind.

VOTE: Slaandar

Crap post, considered “joke” in the first line which feels like an attempt to look like a resigned townie, odd attitude to me, generally feels like a considered post.

b) Bad play is most likely to come about in three scenarios - where the player doesn't think, where the poster is stupid, and where the poster is scum.

you are missing one example. Where a player BELIEVES what he is saying, but the majority of the players don't agree with him and thus calls him a bad player.

Generally, this happens either because the player isn’t thinking or because they’re stupid. The times when neither of these are the case… Well, that’s why I said it’s

most likely

to come about in those circumstances.

FYI - playing badly isn't an alignment tell.

Not by itself, but under certain circumstances it does act as evidence.

Also someone being "scummy" isn't an alignment tell either.

Um, yes it is, by definition? Being scummy means acting like scum. That’s a tell that someone’s scum – unless what you mean is that it’s not a

conclusive

tell, in which case I would point out that nothing’s conclusive in this game until someone dies.

So it's impossible for someone to understand another person's perspective, or feel that their actions have good intentions, unless you also understand and agree with their arguments and reasoning? I suspect that Guppy simply felt that some of his posts had been substandard and understood why I might vote him as a result.

in my opinion yes. If he is town, than he would never agree that the points made against him are true.

Not true - he might accept the reasoning is valid without accepting the premises, or he might just think that I’m overreacting to valid evidence.

Interesting. These posts - while not directly contradictory - don't feel right to me. Both feel generally pro-town, but they feel like they're coming from two different pro-town stances; one wanting action and a good number of votes to provide information, the other stressing caution and wanting discussion, debate and argument before moving forward. It seems off to me that you would post both of these perspectives within 24 hours, with nothing obvious in the thread that would make you change your position so rapidly. Townies are more likely to maintain the same perspective whereas scum are more likely to say whatever is necessary to appear pro-town, so these two posts taken together trip my scumdar pretty badly. Combine that with the craplogic, your blasé attitude at the start of the day, and your play day one..

YOu are completely wrong in this quote.

the first quote was in response to the self hammer the day before, it had nothing to do with wanting action today.

the other is a cautionary post because I am most people haven't realized that we are approaching in mylo.

They aren't contradictory at all and they certainly don't offer 2 different stances.

I disagree. Besides, I was pointing out what these two posts were making me think. It seems off to me, so I mention that it seems off to me. Isn’t that exactly what you were encouraging me to do earlier?

If you are calling out things that you find scummy, there is no need to be cautious about it.

and you accuse of me being blasé ? do you even know what that means?

1. Having the sensibilities deadened by excess or frequency of enjoyment; sated or surfeited with pleasure; uninterested because of frequent exposure or indulgence; used up.
2. very sophisticated; versed in the ways of the world.
3.

uninterested and attaching little importance; - of attitudes toward duties.

no way does this apply to me? You and McStab fit the example of being blasé for sure.

I am fully aware of what blasé means, and have bolded the definition that most fits. I said that you were blasé towards the start of the day – specifically:

Well that obviously sucks but I stand by my hammer. It really fucking sucks this idiot was a PR.

Right now we are most likely 5:2 (9p games usually have only 2 scum)

I'll understand if I get lynched today but logically (and yes I'm using a bit of wifom) I would not be so reckless as scum.

My money is still on dumhanger/guppy being scum.

I'm off to bed for now, no rush to vote.

Dude flipped PR, it's not fake regret, it's actual regret.

The fact that you don't regret being part of that lynch is p. condemning IMO.

The moment I saw that flip I knew I was probably getting lynched today. I stand by my hammer I just hate he was a PR. I'm mad he didn't do anything to try and save himself and he ignored questions.

These two posts don’t feel sincere to me, they feel somewhat tossed-out by someone who’s not really bothered.

Finally, while I’m at it, there’s something I noticed in ISO on you which I would like to bring to everyone’s attention (if they weren’t already aware of it).

Tbh I don't know why anyone is voting FC off 1 single post. I don't suspect him right now cause he did something pro-town. He put benmage to l-1 like I asked.

I don't like he hasn't posted since, that's quite annoying.

<Nothing about FC>

mod - its been 72 hours since FC posted, can you please prod him?

done

vote: fourseen

No comment on the two posts FC had made between this post and the one before. No questions, no “intent to hammer” to prompt a claim (as Benmage had specifically asked for), just a sudden reversal from “I don’t think FC is scum” to “FC hangs now.”

[Robbnva]

guys looking over the posts Sable just posted, I totally thought guppy had asked for a claim. I realize that nobody did. I really fucked up and probably deserve to be lynched, but than again this isn't elementary school so he should have taken being at L-1 more serious than he did. He should not have ignored questions and he should have defended his actions.

as for Sable's other posts about guppy, I disagree with them but it's just a difference of opinion. Guppy seems to be playing the way he always does, which is borderline scummy. :shrug:

[McStab]

guys looking over the posts Sable just posted, I totally thought guppy had asked for a claim. I realize that nobody did. I really fucked up and probably deserve to be lynched, but than again this isn't elementary school so he should have taken being at L-1 more serious than he did. He should not have ignored questions and he should have defended his actions.

as for Sable's other posts about guppy, I disagree with them but it's just a difference of opinion. Guppy seems to be playing the way he always does, which is borderline scummy. :shrug:

So your defense for hammering him was someone asked him to claim and he hadn't immediately responded? There was no rush. Bad excuse, scum.

[Robbnva]

no, i already posted my defense for my hammer. I was just adding in there that I only now realized he was never asked to claim. I had posted earlier that he was asked to claim and obviously he hadn't.

You say there is no rush? I personally like quick day 1s.
was my excuse bad? - nope it wasn't. I stand by my hammer and if that gets me lynched so be it.
scum? - nope I'm not scum.

I do love the way you actively lurk like that. You have a habit of coming in at just the right moments...

Timestamp of FC's putting Bemage at L-1 - 10:03 AM
timestamp of McStab's "angry townie" vote on FC - 10:18 AM

timestamp of me telling McStab to not ignore my question - 12:02 AM
timestamp of McStab responding with a very lippy response - 12:08 AM

Dunhanger takes vote off FC and votes N - 4:10 PM
McStab comes in and says FC should not be left off the hook - 4:37 PM

my hammer of FC - 7:47 pm
McSatb to come in and play white knight saying "if I am not around tomorrow" because somehow he is the most obv town player 7:50 pm

I admit I made an error in realizing that nobody had asked for a claim. - 12:57 pm
he comes in and makes sure to pounce on me and call me scum - 1:15 pm


Dude is paying attention. All of this points to active lurking.

look at his iso. he is providing no content what so ever and he won't even support his votes with any sort of valid reasoning.

post 53 I ask him why someone should put FC at L-1 and he ignores it.
post 54 I point out that he has still ignored the question

post 157 he says he will post a case on me

I've been super busy, my apologies.

Right now I'm really thinking Robb scum, but I'll actually post a case soon. His quickhammer before a claim is bad, and I thought he was scum anyway yesterday before that.

but he still hasn't.

Active lurking, refusing to provide reasons for his votes, refusing to answer questions, & denying content - anyone who says McStab is town needs to seriously re-evaluate.

Vote: mcstab

that's my final vote for the game phase. if I get lynched today, please for the love of god lynch this bastard tomorrow.

[Prof. Guppy]

I totally thought guppy had asked for a claim. I realize that nobody did.

To answer your question, I wasn't 100% certain of FC's alignment. I was just trying to pressure him into saying something, anything, to clear his name. A claim would have been nice, even though I didn't ask for it. I felt it was worth it, because he wasn't contributing to the conversation.

I think I've already said this stuff before.

[Robbnva]

fair enough, I will go back and look for those reasons. If my memory serves me you were voting him for pressure, despite saying you will only vote for people you think are scum. but that's just semantics.

What is your read on McStab?

What are your thoughts of my recent post where I point to specific examples that look like he is actively lurking? Do you think it's pure coincidence or do you think there is some validity to my accusation?

[Dunhamganger]

that's my final vote for the game phase. if I get lynched today, please for the love of god lynch this bastard tomorrow.

Sigh.

[Dunhamganger]

BTW, I'm voting Dunhamganger now because he's a manipulative bastard.

You should probably be voting for the people that you think are scum. Just fyi.

(j/k, I know that you're the scum so it doesn't really matter much who all you vote for.)

[Robbnva]

that's my final vote for the game phase. if I get lynched today, please for the love of god lynch this bastard tomorrow.

Sigh.

You are Useless

[Dunhamganger]

Right back atcha, big guy .

[Prof. Guppy]

BTW, I'm voting Dunhamganger now because he's a manipulative bastard.

You should probably be voting for the people that you think are scum. Just fyi.

(j/k, I know that you're the scum so it doesn't really matter much who all you vote for.)

What makes you so certain that I'm scum?

[Slandaar]

OK Lets do some back to basics scumhunting...

Day 1 Final VC (rest are pointless as day was too short)

1.

Slandaar

(1): N
2. McStab (1):

FourseenCircumstance

3. Prof. Guppy (2): Sable Tip,

Slandaar

7.

FourseenCircumstance

(5): McStab,

Benmage

, Prof. Guppy, Dunhamganger, Robbnva

Now lets look at the facts

Only 3 living players were off the wagon
Me, Sable and N.

4 were on
Mcstab, Guppy, Dunham, Robb

The odds are very low both scum were off the wagon. If anyone thinks both scum were off the wagon they should be voting Sable.

If we think about who the worst votes on four were we can pin down who to lynch from

The worst votes were Guppys 'PRESSURE GUIZ PRESSURE' and Robbs 'LOLHAMMERDIEEEEEE' so at least one of [Guppy, Robb] is very likely scum.

Now.

Lets think about if there is any scum off the wagon or all are on.

Slandaar vs N suggests 1 scum is off the wagon strongly as we both are quite adamant the other is scum with amusingly Guppy.

The difference between us is I made a case on him, he just thinks my case is bad.

This is proactive vs reactive, N does not actually post proactively, He did not post any content relating to anyone other than me for a ridiculous stretch of time, he did not post any kind of catchup post, he is scum.

Now we look at our top on the wagon suspects [Guppy, Robb] who works best with N? Well, its Guppy. N is saying Guppy is my buddy because I am right about him and Guppy and so if Guppy ever gets lynched and lets face it, at the start of day2 it really looked like he would and hence N needing to bus, he could then try saying he was right etc.

All you need to do to see N is scum is look at his first dozen posts or whatever in his ISO. He only argues with me, he never posts anything about Four or anything useful, he literally just focuses on me, his introduction to the game was to respond to me calling him scum.

Its very obvious he is scum.

You should all sheep me now.

[Robbnva]

well your post sure looks like a lot of busy work, but your conclusions are sort of flawed.

You have essentially eliminated the possibility of Mcstab/Dun/Sable being scum which just isn't possible. Sable and McStab especially have lurked, Dunhanger has been wishy washy and provided no real content.

I concede guppy and N are scummy, but than again so is everyone else alive. Even you are scummy at times, like the way you accused N for lurking when he just replaced into the game.

your VCA doesn't really amount up to much and it certainly doesn't confirm N is scum.

based on play thus far, I would argue the evidence is there to support a Sable/Mcstab scum team. McStab only mentions sable 1 time all game and he basically says he has no read on him.

Sable does something much more incriminating, something that is blatant distancing. He posts saying he wants to hear more from the lurkers and than specifically someone who at the time wasn't lurking. It was his first mention of him and came off as fake. It is one of the newb mistakes I have made myself back in the day so that is why it sticks out to me now. When i ask him why he singled out that McStab isn't providing "reasonsings for his reasonsings" (does this even make any sense?) but he says Dun is pro town (despite the fact that dun has not provided a single reason for his stances)

it just doesn't add up to me. Sable/McStab scum team makes the most sense.

N/Guppy make some sense, but not nearly as much as Sable/McStab.

[Sable Tip]

Sable does something much more incriminating, something that is blatant distancing. He posts saying he wants to hear more from the lurkers and than specifically someone who at the time wasn't lurking. It was his first mention of him and came off as fake. It is one of the newb mistakes I have made myself back in the day so that is why it sticks out to me now.

When i ask him why he singled out that McStab isn't providing "reasonsings for his reasonsings" (does this even make any sense?) but he says Dun is pro town (despite the fact that dun has not provided a single reason for his stances)

You really seem to like that phrase, which I used once when summarising my thoughts (despite the fact that the rest of my post made my point obvious). Between that and you challenging my use of the word blasé, it almost feels like you're trying to discredit me by making me look stupid.

McStab had not clearly explained his reasoning at that point. I agree that Dunhamganger also hasn’t really explained his reasoning of late – and I would appreciate him being a bit clearer – but at least earlier on in the game, he was quoting the bits of posts that made him think the way he has, so his reasoning was obvious.

[N]

This is proactive vs reactive, N does not actually post proactively,

I'll admit I am reactive, but being reactive isn't a scum-tell. So, well done, you've finally accused me of doing something I actually am doing, but you're going to have to try again.

[Prof. Guppy]

OK Lets do some back to basics scumhunting...

Day 1 Final VC (rest are pointless as day was too short)

1.

Slandaar

(1): N
2. McStab (1):

FourseenCircumstance

3. Prof. Guppy (2): Sable Tip,

Slandaar

7.

FourseenCircumstance

(5): McStab,

Benmage

, Prof. Guppy, Dunhamganger, Robbnva

Now lets look at the facts

Only 3 living players were off the wagon
Me, Sable and N.

4 were on
Mcstab, Guppy, Dunham, Robb

The odds are very low both scum were off the wagon. If anyone thinks both scum were off the wagon they should be voting Sable.

If we think about who the worst votes on four were we can pin down who to lynch from

The worst votes were Guppys 'PRESSURE GUIZ PRESSURE' and Robbs 'LOLHAMMERDIEEEEEE' so at least one of [Guppy, Robb] is very likely scum.

Yes, because everyone else's vote was town motivated, obvobv

Now.

Lets think about if there is any scum off the wagon or all are on.

Slandaar vs N suggests 1 scum is off the wagon strongly as we both are quite adamant the other is scum with amusingly Guppy.

The difference between us is I made a case on him, he just thinks my case is bad.

By "thinks", you of course mean "knows". Your case is bullshit, in case I wasn't clear.

This is proactive vs reactive, N does not actually post proactively, He did not post any content relating to anyone other than me for a ridiculous stretch of time, he did not post any kind of catchup post, he is scum.

Observe, my fellow townies. This is what we call projection, or finding one's own faults in others.

Now we look at our top on the wagon suspects [Guppy, Robb] who works best with N? Well, its Guppy. N is saying Guppy is my buddy because I am right about him and Guppy and so if Guppy ever gets lynched and lets face it, at the start of day2 it really looked like he would and hence N needing to bus, he could then try saying he was right etc.

Funny how your only case against me is based on N being scum, which he isn't.

All you need to do to see N is scum is look at his first dozen posts or whatever in his ISO. He only argues with me, he never posts anything about Four or anything useful, he literally just focuses on me, his introduction to the game was to respond to me calling him scum.

Its very obvious he is scum.

You should all sheep me now.

Wrong, wrong, and Seriously, dude? You're nearly as bad as Dunhamganger.

[Robbnva]

Sable does something much more incriminating, something that is blatant distancing. He posts saying he wants to hear more from the lurkers and than specifically someone who at the time wasn't lurking. It was his first mention of him and came off as fake. It is one of the newb mistakes I have made myself back in the day so that is why it sticks out to me now.

When i ask him why he singled out that McStab isn't providing "reasonsings for his reasonsings" (does this even make any sense?) but he says Dun is pro town (despite the fact that dun has not provided a single reason for his stances)

You really seem to like that phrase, which I used once when summarising my thoughts (despite the fact that the rest of my post made my point obvious). Between that and you challenging my use of the word blasé, it almost feels like you're trying to discredit me by making me look stupid.

McStab had not clearly explained his reasoning at that point. I agree that Dunhamganger also hasn’t really explained his reasoning of late – and I would appreciate him being a bit clearer – but at least earlier on in the game, he was quoting the bits of posts that made him think the way he has, so his reasoning was obvious.

yes I do like that phrase, it's hands down the funniest thing I have read. And your use of the word blase just doesn't fit. But I can't convince you you are wrong, just like you can't convince me that I am wrong (because i am not)

I agree with you 100% about McStab and his lack of reasonings and I can see the point you are making about Dunhanger, but if this is how you truly felt, why did you feel the need to sit back and do nothing about it? Why not hold people accountable and ask them questions? I mean you didn't even vote him or attempt to pressure him.

instead you did this

I was more hesitant than I should have been and the more that I hesitated, the harder it was for me to absorb the game. Then I didn’t want to make a substandard post, so I just didn’t post. It was a bad call on my part.

This is one of the main reasons why I think you are scum. It's hard for certain people to play well as scum, I often find myself writing and re-writing my posts 3 or 4 times when I am scum because i am worried how they will sound. When I am town I often post from my phone and don't give 2 cents how my post sounds because i know I can back it up. I have played with others who have done similar things. They see stuff going on and they lay low.

It's a scumtell for me, because I have seen it first hand more than enough. If you are town, one of your most powerful weapons in this game is your voice and being afraid to use it isn't something town does.

[Papa Zito]

In this country, you gotta make the money first. Then when you get the money, you get the power. Then when you get the power, then you get the women.

Fourth Votecount of Day 2

1. Slandaar (0):
2. McStab (1): Robbnva
3. Prof. Guppy (1): N
4. Sable Tip (0):
5. N (2): Dunhamganger, Slandaar
8. Robbnva (2): McStab, Sable Tip
9. Dunhamganger (1): Prof. Guppy

Players not voting:

With 7 players alive, it takes 4 votes to lynch.
The current wagon leaders are

N

and

Robbnva

at L-2.
Deadline: October 4th @ 11:59PM CST

[Robbnva]

Hey Zito am I getting punked? I feel like i'm getting punked.

[Dunhamganger]

Define "punked."

(Is it "Wildly accusing most everyone in a game of being scum while remaining stubborn and oblivious to logic and reason?" Because if so definitely.)

(I hear your pointless rejoinder already, so here's some Real Talk:

based on play thus far, I would argue the evidence is there to support a Sable/Mcstab scum team. McStab only mentions sable 1 time all game and he basically says he has no read on him.

Barely mentioning players =! scumbuddies. Especially when both of those players have posted far too infrequently. But by your own Swiss-cheese logic, there's plenty to connect you to N, since you've barely mentioned him all game (and obstinately refuse to vote him despite voting for nearly every other living player at some point today.)

Sable, you're below the mod line. Post.

McStab, Benmage still has more posts than you. Post.

[Robbnva]

funny you say I am ignoring logic and reason, when this is your very first post actually doing so.

I'm not wildly accusing people, it's not my fault these people are doing obviously scummy things. Take you for example, if you are actually town I have to shake my head because you have been overly scummy. People say things that are scummy, as a result I pressure them and vote them. It's better than sitting back doing nothing like you have been doing. Like Sable has been doing, like McStab had been doing, like N has been doing, like Guppy has been doing.

you say I have barely mentioned N but that's just not true. I have mentioned him and questioned him quite a few times. meanwhile you haven't done jack shit. so take a long walk off a short pier if you are going to continue to be useless. (I'm trying to break my habit of cursing, consider yourself lucky)


Maybe if you could piece a couple of these content filled posts together and outline why you are voting who you are and why you suspect who you suspect we could get somewhere.

[Robbnva]

N - can you outline why you are voting for Slandaar?

[McStab]

I've said what I need to. I'm confident in Slaand town, and I'm confident in Robb scum. I'm pretty sure scum hopped on the Fourseen wagon, and Robb jumped on for the worst of reasons. My reasons were pretty clear I felt; he was posting nothing of substance, making huge logical fallacies that struck me as something no townsperson could make, and refused to defend himself. I had townreads on Benmage and Dunham, and null-town read on Sable Tip. I've since soldified my reads to the following:

Town:
McStab
Slandaar
Sable Tip
Dunham

Scum:
N
Guppy
Robb


In no particular order, however Robb is the clearest scum to me. Hammering without a claim is bad, and we can't let him live till LyLo even if he is town. Associative links exist between him, Guppy and N, so a scumflip would confirm many of my townreads theories as to who are scum along with my own reads.

Slandaar, I will /sheep Sland tomorrow if you join me on a Robb lynch today.