Mini 343: Donnie Darko 0:0:0:0 Game Over


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Post Post #300 (ISO) » Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:48 am

Post by Save The Dragons »

MeMe wrote:
STDumbass wrote: Meme tries to link Scalebane and CK's
Tries to link their what?
:P Thier blankness?

My biggest beef was that you actually brought the two names together, as if planting a seed in our minds. Subtle tactics.

By the way, it should say, "death," or "kill."
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Art for art’s sake?
Anix called me a placebo. Placebo is a band I like. So I posted a picture of the album of thiers that I have. No game relevence.
Sotty7 wrote:
Save The Dragons wrote:
Sotty7 wrote: One question...why would I kill of somebody who I said in thread could be scum? Especially when I was the only person to vote them?
WIFOM?
That was the point, even speculating everything about would be WIFOM. Why bring this up again when Emp has claimed the kill anyway?
I thought it was interesting.
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Post Post #301 (ISO) » Sat Aug 26, 2006 8:07 am

Post by AniX »

EmpTyger wrote:AniX:
You are setting off so many redflags for me. Particularly the “trustable” section of [278]. The order feels off. How did you place *yourself* between Chess and olio when writing that post? And why is Chess so beneficial, considering that you seem to be disagreeing with most of his opinions?
The order is "off" because there is no order. I was basically going "ok, who is on the player list." Its not "most trustable to least trustable of the trustables". I placed Chess first because he was the one asking for it so he was near the top of my mind, than thought of myself and put myself down and then referred to the list, where I then noticed Olio's name and placed him accordingly.

Chess is benefical because he, in my opinion, is inspiring discussion that I view as discussion benefical to the town. I don't need to agree 100% with someone to believe them town, do I? Someone can be 100% protown and be a total bullshitter. Not that I am referring to Chess as such, just that disagreement doesn't equal scumminess.
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Post Post #302 (ISO) » Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:04 am

Post by MeMe »

nonny wrote:Turns out the new girl in town is found dead in the middle of a back road. Gretchen Ross (Colonel Kurtz) is dead, from the wounds on her most likly done by someone she knew, someone who had it out for her perhaps?
MeMe wrote:Another interpretation that just came to me: CK and Scalebane know each other in real life, though 1) I have no idea if nonny's aware of that and 2) outside-of-game information
probably
wouldn't be used as flavor text.

Thought I'd throw it out there anyway.
So. nonny says the victim most likely knew the killer. It seemed as though that meant the two characters knew each other -- but as I knew the two
players
knew each other as well, I thought I should mention it as a possible interpretation. Do you think it'd have been better for me to sit on that information?

Also, keep in mind, EmpTyger has claimed the kill. You can pretty much bet I was actually trying to figure out who might have killed CK...no reason for me to misdirect, regardless of my alignment.

What a weird accusation.
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Post Post #303 (ISO) » Sat Aug 26, 2006 4:50 pm

Post by Chess83 »

For the record, I think the whole knowing their killer thing is flavor, and thus a mute point. Being flavor it adds to the story of the game, but for the MOD to lead the town to the scum would be a cheat, a violation if you will. This is just my opinion.
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Post Post #304 (ISO) » Sat Aug 26, 2006 7:46 pm

Post by MeMe »

Death scene flavor shouldn't be dismissed as moot. Whether or not it's
fair
is another matter...sometimes the mod doesn't think through what they're giving away and sometimes it's a balancing choice. Still, a lot can be gleaned from it because it's very rarely misleading.

But, you have the claimed killer above only you in suspicion, which rather makes your point about leading the town to "scum" at odds with your stated interpretation.

That said -- the issue STD and I were discussing was if me telling everyone what I know is "subtle tactics" with which someone could genuinely have a "beef" or whether full disclosure of something that may be relevant is the right thing to do. Got a comment on
that
?
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Post Post #305 (ISO) » Sun Aug 27, 2006 3:40 am

Post by Chess83 »

Actually, I don't really follow the last comment... so no I dont have a comment on
that
.
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Post Post #306 (ISO) » Sun Aug 27, 2006 3:41 am

Post by Chess83 »

Actually, I don't really follow the last comment... so no I dont have a comment on
that
.
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Post Post #307 (ISO) » Sun Aug 27, 2006 3:41 am

Post by Chess83 »

Sorry about the multi-post, seems scumnet is having some "Debug" issues.
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Post Post #308 (ISO) » Sun Aug 27, 2006 7:35 pm

Post by Save The Dragons »

I'll start backwards, but keep in mind I'm not accusing you of anything yet, I'm just toying with an idea.
MeMe wrote:What a weird accusation.
I disagree. A lot of "name" players don't scare me, but a few do. Number one is you. I'm fearful that trying to pin scummy on you is like trying to walk up a wall.
MeMe wrote:Also, keep in mind, EmpTyger has claimed the kill. You can pretty much bet I was actually trying to figure out who might have killed CK...no reason for me to misdirect, regardless of my alignment.
Irrelevent, and here's why.

1) No one knew (save EmpTyger) that he was the killer at this point.
2) If you're scum, and you know Scalebane is town, that kill could be from anywhere. Subtly putting some blame on Scalebane could be an attempt to bridge kill and "killer."
MeMe wrote:So. nonny says the victim most likely knew the killer. It seemed as though that meant the two characters knew each other -- but as I knew the two
players
knew each other as well, I thought I should mention it as a possible interpretation. Do you think it'd have been better for me to sit on that information?
If you're town, of course not. But I'm not accusing you of being town, so suggesting I would consider you to sit on the information seems silly. If you're scum, of course not; I've already explained why.
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Post Post #309 (ISO) » Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:44 am

Post by MeMe »

If the answer to "should I sit on the information" is "of course not" in both cases -- how can you defend basing an accusation on sharing the information?

And despite this statement...
STD wrote:keep in mind I'm not accusing you of anything yet,
...your later clarification here...
STD wrote:If you're town, of course not. But I'm not accusing you of being town, so suggesting I would consider you to sit on the information seems silly. If you're scum, of course not; I've already explained why.
...rather implies that you
are
accusing me (but not of being town).

How ironic that your "toying with an idea" is beginning to look an awful lot like subtle tactics and/or planting a seed...

FOS: STD
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Post Post #310 (ISO) » Mon Aug 28, 2006 5:17 pm

Post by Save The Dragons »

MeMe wrote:
STD wrote:If you're town, of course not. But I'm not accusing you of being town, so suggesting I would consider you to sit on the information seems silly. If you're scum, of course not; I've already explained why.
...rather implies that you
are
accusing me (but not of being town).
You're thinking black and white. I'm thinking in technicolor.

When I put it, I realized confusion would occur, but I thought I made myself clear. And was being a little sarcastic.

I'm trying to figure out where you're at. You shared information benevolently or malevolently, and I'm not going to know until this game is over. But I can pick at it.
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Post Post #311 (ISO) » Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:45 am

Post by Ixnayonthehombre »

STD wrote:
MeMe wrote:Do you think it'd have been better for me to sit on that information?
If you're town, of course not. But I'm not accusing you of being town, so suggesting I would consider you to sit on the information seems silly. If you're scum, of course not; I've already explained why.
STD wrote:I'm trying to figure out where you're at. You shared information benevolently or malevolently, and I'm not going to know until this game is over. But I can pick at it.
You said that you should share the information whether or not you're town. So what are you accusing her of? If you're not accusing her, then why are you bringing this up?
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Post Post #312 (ISO) » Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:27 am

Post by Save The Dragons »

If she's scum, she's sharing the information with bad intentions. That's what I'm suggesting. Do I think she's scum? Maybe. Maybe not. I need more information, which is why I'm bringing this up. But I've said all of this already.
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Post Post #313 (ISO) » Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:57 pm

Post by Sentinel99 »

Wanted to quickly apologize, I do need to be replaced. Things got really crazy all at once, and are just now dying down again. Sorry to detract from the game.
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Post Post #314 (ISO) » Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:01 pm

Post by MeMe »

I see that Sentinel has signed up for UPick in the mini theme queue. If he has time to play that game, why in the world would he "need" to be replaced in
this
one? It'd take an hour, at most, to read the dang game. I'm really irritated that he'd apologize for "detracting from the game" and go right ahead and compound the problem by forcing someone new to do what he's, apparently, unwilling to do (read and post). I mean...why won't he? Because he just doesn't wanna?

I'm keeping my vote right where it is and I'm STRONGLY AGAINST nonny replacing Sentinel99 while he's still on the site and apparently has time to play, now. I still think his twilight post was way suspicious and his behavior today is unbelievably inconsiderate and/or scummy.
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Post Post #315 (ISO) » Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:17 pm

Post by Sentinel99 »

Well, if I'm still in, I can still be in. I figured I was already replaced when I got back here (earlier today). I thought I'd just apolgize to be polite, and as I in fact just mentioned, things got really hectic for a while, and now I've got time on my hands again. Also, I don't think you can really moniter my activitiy anywhere else on the site and use that in a particular game.

I've been out of commission for almost this entire month, and I get back to read posts saying I've been replaced, or will be when the mod gets back. I mean, I'm sorry, but stuff came up, and I can't exactly structure my entire life around a GAME. I mean, if you guys will still have me, I'll try and catch up real fast.
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Post Post #316 (ISO) » Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:09 pm

Post by MeMe »

Sentinel99 wrote:Also, I don't think you can really moniter my activitiy anywhere else on the site and use that in a particular game.
Sure I can. No rule against it.
Sentinel99 wrote:I mean, I'm sorry, but stuff came up, and I can't exactly structure my entire life around a GAME. I mean, if you guys will still have me, I'll try and catch up real fast.
No one's asking you to structure your life around a game. But you came back and said you "need to be replaced" -- which, evidently, isn't the case.

I'll look forward to your comments when you're caught up.
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Post Post #317 (ISO) » Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:30 pm

Post by Scalebane »

and asking to be replaced is also a perfectly good course of action. Which takes all of 5 minutes followed by dropping off the face of the earth.

And I think part of what STD is accusing MeMe of (although, honestly, I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. I'm simply stating my interpretation of what you've said) being an experienced player who is/has been extremely hard to read. And I have to admit, that's a pretty darn good accusation considering the fact that she is exactly what he's accusing her of being. And because of that fact, he's trying to ask her direct questions so that he can get a better idea of her role/alignment in this game.

The big issue for me is simply the fact that I'm *still* frustrated by EmpTyger, but I know in large part that is just me being all OMGUS.

And at this moment I'm going to have to say that after doing *another* re-read, I'm going to have to
Unvote?, Vote: Anix
. I'm simply having a hard time reading the game and coming to any conclusion except that he isn't exactly pro-town. He has contributed almost exactly nothing this entire game except simply agreeing with other people's suspicions. Which, I know, can be argued that he's simply suspicious of all the currently "controversial" people because they are suspicious, but it's somewhat less excusable when he has contributed virtually nothing this entire game. Has he even voted yet? ever? no, no he hasn't. I thought pro-town players were supposed to be trying to ... I dunno ... actually help the town in figuring out who the mafia is so that the town can lynch them? instead of simply sitting around claiming to have some trick up your sleeve so that the town doesn't lynch you and you and your scum buddies can win?
anix wrote:If I was voting right now, I would vote...
Ixnay-I am assuming, of course, Ixnay knew of the fact that using the "inactives" as a easy target would result in the town being in dire straights tommorow. As my earlier post showed, the town would be in rather large trouble when I (and, assumed in this situation Sentinel) turned up town and Day 3 began. If Ixnay was in a position to know both our alignments (say, if he was some sort of non-town character), such a "lynch or lose" situation would greatly benefit him.
Wow, did nobody else read that? First off, he points out the fact that he refuses to vote in this game, ever. Then, he proceeds to attack someone simply because they attacked his "strategy" (that strategy being letting the scum win). And you aren't simply inactive as sentinel is (which leads to replacement, most of the time.) No, in fact, you are *actively* being inactive. And your logic throughout the whole paragraph is specious. Yes, of course, if you assume that you're innocent then it all makes perfect sense. But why should any of the rest of us assume that you're town? You've done absolutely nothing to help us.

Die scum die.
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Post Post #318 (ISO) » Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:16 pm

Post by EmpTyger »

I think I will need to do a reread before I can decide who to vote, and I still don't have the opportunity to. The last few posts mean that I can't focus on Chess and Anix, since Sentinel and Scalebane are giving me excellent reasons to suspect each of them as well.


Scalebane:
There's something about [317] that bothers me, and my instinctive reaction was oddly a feeling that you're stretching to attack AniX. The timing also bothers me; just when Sentinel's lurking is shown to be intentional, you suddenly pick that moment to come forward against AniX- despite a history of excusing Sentinel, even in the same post. You also seem overdefensive in clarifying STD's remarks.

Of course, the problem is that there *are* some very good reasons to attack AniX.


Sentinel:
Lying about lurking? What, the usual strategies of lurking and aren't good enough for mafia anymore?
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Post Post #319 (ISO) » Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:17 pm

Post by AniX »

Where did I point out I refuse to vote in this game ever? I would be very interested to hear your response, considering "if I was voting right now, I would vote..." is basically a verbose way of highly "FOSing" someone. Unless everyone who has ever FOS another player is guilty of "refusing to vote in the game, ever" I don't really see where your mystical logic comes into play.

I wasn't attacking Ixnay because of him insulting my "strategy" (considering I would then be attacking MeMe the most considering she was the first to bring it up and the first one to push for me to post more often). I was arguing against his plan (Is debating logic in a game of logic considered an attack now and such things?) because his plan of removing "the non-actives" is logically flawed that unless the cop himself leaps from the bushes and is all "AHA! ANIX AND SENTINEL ARE SCUM!", the plan has a good risk of handing the scum victory on a silver/gold platter.

Also, of course I assume I am town. Is any player in this game going to (unless part of some sort of survivor/SK wacky plot) say "Yeah, totally not town." I really don't know what sort of logic you are playing with when you are using the fact I claimed to be a town role as a knock against me.
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Post Post #320 (ISO) » Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:20 pm

Post by Chess83 »

I am here but have nothing to really contribute right now, just to let you know I am present and reading.

The only thing I have to offer is my stance on the Sentinel replacement issue which is not dealing with the GAME in truth. I think if you are free now, you should try and catch up, it is more responsible of you to handle it that way rather than tucking your tail in and running.
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Post Post #321 (ISO) » Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:31 pm

Post by EmpTyger »

I *definitely* will need to do a reread before I can decide who to vote, and I still don't have the opportunity to. The last few posts mean that I can't focus on Sentinel and Scalebane, since Chess and Anix are giving me excellent reasons to suspect each of them as well.


Chess:
You do realize that the issue is that Sentinel has lied? By signing up for another game, she thus clearly *is* able to play a game of mafia, and thus does not need replacement. And that's the "only thing" you can contribute with?


AniX:
Quit fishing for the cop.
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Post Post #322 (ISO) » Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:00 pm

Post by Scalebane »

Anix: Show me where you've voted and I'll point out how you're not scum. Oh wait.

My comment about you "pointing out that you've never voted" was simply regarding your "if I was voting, I would vote" comment. It drew attention to the very absence of any votes in the game so far. I, in fact, would not have really noted it if you hadn't made that really weird comment with regards to Ixnay. Why not just vote him already?

And, of course I'm going to attack Anix. You think I found sentinel scummy on a reread? Hah. Just because sentinel has decided to join another game doesn't mean that sentinel is intentionally lurking (in my book.) I have been in plenty of games before where the 13 page reread made me completely adverse to posting in it.

And, I'm trying to clarify STD's remarks because I happen (as I said in [317]) to completely agree with them. I find MeMe rediculously hard to read and also a relatively big threat simply because she's an experienced player.
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Post Post #323 (ISO) » Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:55 pm

Post by olio »

Chess83 wrote: Olio, I never claimed that I was not scum because I did something that was illogical for scum to do. I simply said that it was illogical for scum to do that. You were saying it was a scummy thing to do, I am saying it would be illogical for scum to do that. This is not a WIFOM argument, I am simply rejecting your premise that it is a logical action for scum to take.
Are you trying to drown my arguments in the sea of meaningless words? I found your tone-softening scummy, which means that I found
you
scummy. So if you bring "illogical actions for scum" in the discussion, do you think I suddenly start thinking you're not scum? I've never said it's logical for scum to want EmpTyger dead. Stop making false assumptions.
chess83 wrote: Does that help show why the scum pushing to lynch a claimed vig tommrow is illogical? It is dumb, too risky.
Think WIFOM as a gambit in chess: you deliberately create a weakness in the opening so you'll be stronger later.
Chess83 wrote:
Olio wrote: In my opinion, that Possible Damning Information in that sentence doesn't automatically add to the previous sentence where you only mention Said Information.

The point stands, you said nobody should put on the 5th vote until said information is out, thus you imply in that sentence that said information has something to do with Scalebane's guiltiness.
Well, that is your opinion and you are entitled to it, provided you allow for the possibility that I was NOT SAYING THAT. The fact remains that I allowed for the possibility of the information to not directly affect Scale.
Why did you allow such a possibility to remain? Why weren't you blunt with your words? Why did you want to cause confusion?
Chess83 wrote: So we are clear, you opinion is not fact. Neither is my opinion or anyone elses. It is find, IMO, to state your opinion, but please do not state it in a factual way.
Why do you take them as facts? I've never said they're anything but opinions, opinions which I believe in.
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Post Post #324 (ISO) » Tue Aug 29, 2006 7:04 pm

Post by olio »

Chess' "I don't have anything to contribute" -post count: 2
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