Mini 1368 (Game Over)

[Lupo]

I felt that a claim at this level would help me decide whether or not he would be a good lynch.

Explain this in more detail please.

With how he is posting anything other than a VT claim would come off as a lie to me.

[Paschendale]

You know who really hasn't had much to say? And less that's useful? Nobody Special. Literally only one post with any serious content, and a very dangerous L-1 vote with basically no reasoning. Only a defensive comment to justify that his vote isn't scummy. Yeah, it's tough to agree with people's existing comments because you'll be accused of sheeping, but at least have a reason! Not just one sentence of largely discredited justification.

Vote: Nobody Special

[Hellhound1]

My read has not changed on Cheery Dog, and has in fact been strengthened by his disingeniuous claim that he was looking for reactions with his "triangles vs circles" thing. I think now would be a fine time for a claim.

This post:

Hellhound, who do you think is scum?

Honestly, i feel its too early to give any reads i'll stick to. I havent seen enough from everyone yet.
However, i get scummy vibes from CD, and FUT for buddying a little bit. Theres no reason to defend CD, unless he's your scum buddy.

Seems a little too safe to me. Only giving reads on Cheery Dog and FUT is bullshit, there has been enough going on to develop other reads and singling out only the two who have the most pressure makes me cringe.

fos: Hellhound

He asked me who i thought was scum. I've already mentioned i wasnt happy with Nobody Special, now he's under the spotlight. Gonna call me scummy because i'm not voting him or some other shit?

Hellhound feels scummy to me as well, though. His posts feel overly cautious and the reads he gave out just seem reiterated from what other people have said.

Wow, gonna get your head out of pappums rat's ass? You're so clearly sheeping him here, im adding you to my possible scum list.

It wasnt an issue of how many scumreads he had given, it was that he had given the two people with the greatest chance of getting lynched that was a problem for me without commenting on anyone else. i.e., he was going after the easiest targets.

Vote: Hellhound

Am i not allowed to agree with the majority of town? CD was clearly being scummy, you were voting him anyway, gonna call yourself scum for that?
Also, i explained why i didnt like FUTs posts.
Maybe switch your brain on here and think:

Most scummiest people = most likely to be lynched = top of most peoples scum lists

Am i wrong there?
I had no other scum reads, which was what i was asked to post. I wasnt asked to post my whole list of reads and explanations why, and neither would i at this early stage.

I disagree with pappums and triangle on hellhound.

He didn't really say that CD & FUT were scum, just that he saw instances of buddying which I saw as well.

Thank you.

Well, I also agree that it looks like CD and FUT could potentially be buddying, but I don't like Hellhound's ISO. Looking at his posts, it's hard to see much actual content coming out from him.

He's asking a lot of questions of other players, which is fine,

but

there's not really any follow-up and he's not substantiating any opinions from whatever information he's gained from them.

There are also a couple instances of IIoA (information instead of analysis), such as his post addressing pecanpie's miller claim from a theoretical point of view or the one calling out lurkers, which, combined with the way he cautiously words weak scum reads on the top two wagons and nothing else, makes him very scummy.

Your second count of buddying pappums rat. Nicely done.

First bit i've bolded, its called "gathering information". Second bit, why would I? It's five pages in, half of the players havent posted anything of worth. Theres been no reason for me to shout my opinion out at people.

with the way he cautiously words weak scum reads on the top two wagons and nothing else

Haha. Firstly, FUT was hardly a wagon, so stop trying to make me sound scummy, and stick to the facts.
Secondly, i was the first person to post my unhappiness at Nobody Special, and now he's being bandwagoned, so your theory falls flat on its face there.

UNVOTE:

I'm not 100% happy with CDs explanation, however it isnt lynchworthy, and i'm going to join in voting Nobody Special, because i think the pressure would be good to try and get him talking/participating more. I'd like to know the reasons behind his votes and thoughts (what little we have).

VOTE: Nobody Special

[triangle123]

Your second count of buddying pappums rat. Nicely done.

It's absolutely shocking, isn't it? I found someone scummy... that another player also thought was scummy! And I even contributed my own original reasons for doing so! Call the Sheep Police!

I'm not even going to try to point out the irony here.

First bit i've bolded, its called "gathering information". Second bit, why would I? It's five pages in, half of the players havent posted anything of worth. Theres been no reason for me to shout my opinion out at people.

Gathering information, as I stated in the bit you bolded, is perfectly fine. What differentiates a town player from a scum player, though, is that a town player gathers information and uses it to form opinions, reads, etc. A scum player, however, asks questions to look busy. And that second one is what I believe you're doing. I totally understand that many players don't have fully-formed reads early on in the game, but there's again a difference between not having solid reads yet and trying to look busy while sheeping the two wagons.

Haha. Firstly, FUT was hardly a wagon, so stop trying to make me sound scummy, and stick to the facts.

I'd say that when many people start attacking a certain person, it's a wagon. If you want to use different terminology, whatever. My point stands.

Secondly, i was the first person to post my unhappiness at Nobody Special, and now he's being bandwagoned, so your theory falls flat on its face there.

Not even close. You took it easy and called out some lurkers, which, coupled with your other dodgy ways, is classic scum behavior. Then other people found NS scummy, and now you're jumping on the wagon.

[Idiotking]

[quote="In post 127, Hellhound1"
First bit i've bolded, its called "gathering information". Second bit, why would I? It's five pages in, half of the players havent posted anything of worth. Theres been no reason for me to shout my opinion out at people.[/quote]

Doesn't this effectively let you avoid scumhunting? You have to develop arguments and such based on information you've gathered to scumhunt, and there's plenty of information to do that. According to your earlier statement,

Am i not allowed to agree with the majority of town? CD was clearly being scummy, you were voting him anyway, gonna call yourself scum for that?
Also, i explained why i didnt like FUTs posts.
Maybe switch your brain on here and think:

Most scummiest people = most likely to be lynched = top of most peoples scum lists

you clearly state that you saw at least CD and FUT as scummy, and in that case, why not build arguments against them? By NOT building your own cases, you're just going along with whatever the majority seems to think.

FOS Hellhound1

I hate people who just go with the flow.

[Nobody Special]

Note to self: read from post 103.

Modem died at home. Hopefully connected tonight, maybe tomorrow. Will only be on once a day, briefly, until it's fixed.

[Cheery Dog]

I hate people who just go with the flow.

Is going with the flow a town or a scum mindset?

[Idiotking]

I'm pretty sure it's scummy. Scum can use it to hide behind the majority and act like they're doing something when they're not. Townies who go with the flow are not scumhunting, which is completely opposed to their win condition. At the very least, it's anti-town, and I am absolutely willing to lynch anti-town players on D1. I've been in enough games with bad townies at LYLO.

[ChaosOmega]

Vote Count 1.04

Nobody Special (3) - Melmond, Paschendale, Hellhound1
Hellhound1 (2) - pappums rat, triangle123
Lupo (1) - Kublai Khan
Melmond (1) - Cheery Dog
FUT (1) - Idiotking
triangle123 (1) - basketballstar24
Cheery Dog (1) - Nobody Special

Not Voting (3) - Lupo, pieceofpecanpie, FUT

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Prodding FUT.

Deadline

~8 days and 20.5 hours

[Melmond]

Ok, I've done some meta of NS and what I see is a lot of lurking, but this game is really bad with it. He seems to lurk even more with his scum games.
I really don't know yet about NS.
@Nobody Special: What do you think about whats happened so far in the game? Any scumreads? (Once you get your modem fixed of course lol)

[Melmond]

@pappums&triangle: could you explain the case on Hellhound? I'm not sure I'm getting it.

[Kublai Khan]

I felt that a claim at this level would help me decide whether or not he would be a good lynch.

Explain this in more detail please.

With how he is posting anything other than a VT claim would come off as a lie to me.

What do you make of his claim then?

[basketballstar24]

Oops RVS is over.

Unvote

I also think NobodySpecial is very inactive and is not contributing to the game.

@NobodySpecial, what do you think about Cheery Dog, FUT, and hellhound, and which one of them are the most scummiest to you?

And I'm going to read through again, my V/LA sucks.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Read the last page and a half a couple of times.

Not seeing Hellhound case yet, but I understand there should be suspects caught in the quick CD wagon.

Main reason I unvoted CD - not revealed at the time - was NS' vote for L-1. One of the weaker cases I've seen. That and his contradictions about FUT's scumminess - pointed out in Melmond's #122 - reek of sheeping and statements made for convenience.

Modem or no, I'm not encouraged.

Before I vote however I want to do a little bit more reading, looking into this wagon. There's every chance multiple scum eagerly hopped on. Doesn't mean you get a free ride to whatever day you told us would be "exciting", CD, I've seen quick Day 1 lynches before and there's every chance your buddies already sold you short. You may have dug yourself out of a hole with some well-timed speculation, but I'm yet to feel convinced that there is a genuine scum-hunting agenda afoot post "reaction test".

[pappums rat]

Hellhound's #127 is lulzy as hell and I think the fact that he jumped on NS just makes him all the scummier. The main reason I think he is scum is that he has been acting opportunistically, and this jump to a growing wagon just increases this habit.

@pappums&triangle: could you explain the case on Hellhound? I'm not sure I'm getting it.

My posts 102 and 112 and triangle's post 117 give thorough reasoning why Hellhound looks like scum, but to make a long story short he listed his scumreads as being the two people with the most pressure on them without commenting on anyone else, which looks like he is being opportunistic scum to me.

[Lupo]

I felt that a claim at this level would help me decide whether or not he would be a good lynch.

Explain this in more detail please.

With how he is posting anything other than a VT claim would come off as a lie to me.

What do you make of his claim then?

If he was scum trying to claim VT he would've just came out and said it. I think a lynch without more information on him is a bad move.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Re: Hellhound

Alright, I'm beginning to somewhat see the case.

[...]I don't like Hellhound's ISO. Looking at his posts, it's hard to see much actual content coming out from him.

He's asking a lot of questions of other players, which is fine, but there's not really any follow-up and he's not substantiating any opinions from whatever information he's gained from them.

There are also a couple instances of IIoA (information instead of analysis), such as his post addressing pecanpie's miller claim from a theoretical point of view or the one calling out lurkers, which, combined with the way he cautiously words weak scum reads on the top two wagons and nothing else, makes him very scummy.

The part I've underlined is what rings most true to me.

This feels similar to how I can mistakenly play scum - ie. too passively - where content is posted, but it's really just to boost my appearance rate. Then when someone makes a case on me it's easy to become overtly defensive.

Now Hellhound's #127 is interesting, a lot of it feels like knee-jerk defensiveness with a scum tinge. And I'm not entirely happy with the NS vote, it seems a little easy to point out the lurkers and then follow it up with a vote a few pages later when the tide swings their way.

My gut instinct tells me there's something to Hellhound. Either way, a much more fruitful flip for information than NS, and given that's who he's voting I'd rather avoid an NS wagon for now.

VOTE: Hellhound

[Cheery Dog]

Secondly, i was the first person to post my unhappiness at Nobody Special, and now he's being bandwagoned, so your theory falls flat on its face there.

Hmmm... lets look two posts above you asking if anybody else was unhappy with the content from NS.

Nobody Special - all his posts currently mean nothing to me.

Yeah, you weren't the first person to post unhappiness at lack of content from NS. I may not have worded it as "I am unhappy with lack of content from NS", but it's still the same thing.

[triangle123]

CD, what are your thoughts on Hellhound?

I also think NobodySpecial is very inactive and is not contributing to the game.

Do you think NS is scummy?

[Paschendale]

There's an interesting take, Mr. Pie Man. Hellhound's reason for voting does seem a little thin, and pressure votes don't really work if you announce them as such. And his talk of intentionally withholding information... because other people have been doing the same. That's a destructive pattern. Townies need to go out on a limb to find scum. Playing it safe won't do it. I still think NS is more suspect right now, but Hellhound could be rising to the number 2 spot.

[ChaosOmega]

Searching for a replacement for FUT.

[Cheery Dog]

CD, what are your thoughts on Hellhound?

He's gone back in null territory, after not advancing very far out of it.
The only thing he's brought to the table that hadn't been mentioned by anybody else is the accusation that you were sheeping pappums rat. Which I don't see having merit to it because I can see the exact same thing you both have said.

@hellhound, does this make me sheeping them as well?

[pieceofpecanpie]

@Pashendale Who would be your ideal Day 1 lynch and why?

[Paschendale]

At the moment, only Nobody Special has done anything overtly scummy. Maybe it's too obvious? It's the people who try to get others killed without good reason that seem the most suspect to me. A dangerous vote, unnecessary tunneling, or just being trigger happy tend to be scummiest in my experience. If people had continued pursuing FUT, for example, over his grammatical choices, that would have seemed scummy to me. Suspicions, even half formed ones, are just part of scumhunting. But when you take actions to back them up, that's when it gets real. My ideal day 1 lynch is somebody who overplays their hand trying to support a wagon with a thin case. The closest to that thus far as been Nobody Special. But given his insistence that his internet isn't working so he can't defend himself, I wouldn't want it to happen anytime soon.

What about you, Mr. Pie? What's your ideal and why?

[ChaosOmega]

killerjester replaces FUT.