Micro 4 - Double Day Unlimited (Over)

[Jarvis]

VOTE: Kcdaspot

^sucks

VOTE: N

Self-votes in a list of players containing all the scum? Scum claim much.

[Jarvis]

VOTE: On of the Nom

RVS doesn't need to last a stupid amount of time.

(that's never been done before)

Tell me honestly, what do you expect to get out of that?

[Jarvis]

^lol@overjustification

VOTE: N

Self-votes in a list of players containing all the scum? Scum claim much.

What's a logic? Just because a list contains mafia and also contains me doesn't mean the two are linked. If I'd voted for everyone except myself, I know people would've jumped on that straight away too. What alternative did I have?

Okay, so I could have just

not

voted for everyone, but where's the fun in that?

It doesn't necessarily mean the two are linked, but if you knew you were town, why would you include yourself? Why vote a guaranteed townie and make it one vote easier for you to get lynched?

Why do you think anyone would have called you out for voting everyone but yourself? Why would you

care

?

Tell me honestly, what do you expect to get out of that?

Am I supposed to know?

UNVOTE:

The purpose of RVS is to kickstart discussion, right? How is that post intended to do this in any way?

So yes.

[Jarvis]

No, I'm asking why you did. And a little more.

Also here's the expected IT WAS TO GET REACTIONS from Om. What reactions were you looking for? What would indicate town or scum? What have you found so far? Why have you called it off? Why are you not voting?

And yeah you're supposed to think during RVS. It's not just a time to deep around until something happens, you have to make something happen. Your self-vote shows unwillingness to point fingers yourself, which suggests scum not wanting to ruffle any feathers.

Also, I'm well out of RVS. Next person to join me gets free town points.

[Jarvis]

UNVOTE: Kcdaspot

@UN (#23)

- Why do you think making it 3 votes to lynch is a good idea?

@Om (#29)

- So right, you went into a reaction test not knowing what you were looking for or how you would tell a town reaction from a scum reaction. That's errrr, but whatever, I've seen it before. What I'm having difficulty believing is that you have not gained anything from it whatsoever, or at least nothing you are mentioning. What does each player's reaction, or lack of it, tell you? There's no way you're letting this go as a reaction test without showing something for it.

Oh, and you're not voting because you have no suspects. Good, that means you're out of RVS. Oh, but then bad - why aren't you doing anything about having no suspects?

@N (#30)

- You can take advantage of having unlimited votes without voting for everyone. And again, why did you think everyone would jump on you for voting everyone but yourself? And again, why would you care?

You got me, I just wanted to use the word 'tantamount'.

Holy shit.

See this? This panic-justifying himself to Yos? And the last time too. Fuuuuuuuck.

Are you really saying you knew of these three players Yos referenced? Names please.

[Jarvis]

^that

Om (#43)

- Town read on me? That kinda contradicts the "that looks like reaching" comment.

I'm still kind of hmmmm about how you're apparently happy to sit around without any scumreads but ok, take your time.

N (#46)

- You serious? Yos is the only person talking? 

Nice little dodge of the other questions too.

IceGuy (#47)

- Gonna need a reason why it's necessary to declare the entire game out of RVS now.

N (#48)

- Oh my.

WAGON THIS UP

[Jarvis]

Intent to hammer.

There's a reason for you. Add the sneaky L-1 vote on N to your list of things to elaborate on too.

@Om

- Reads now please.

@ABR

- Your unvote won't be counted. Were you aware that you silently put IceGuy at L-1? If so, why'dya do it?

@Fate

- Is Yos town?

[Jarvis]

Yep. It can go a bit further if you don't hop to doing what's expected of you.

No reasoning, no acknowledgment of the fact it put him at L-1.

[Jarvis]

Yeah, all two of them which have also been called out?

Stop deflecting and get to it.

[Jarvis]

Explain these, answer that, and qualify that L-1 vote. Same questions as to ABR: were you aware it was such a vote, and if so, what necessitated it?

[Jarvis]

Don't test me.

[Jarvis]

Intent to hammer.

Those aren't empty words.

[Jarvis]

IceGuy, come baaaaack.

[Jarvis]

I plan on hammering IceGuy as soon as we get a replacement for UN. Or maybe sooner, we'll see.

Okay, experiment over.

Because look at this. ANOTHER EXPERIMENT LOLOLOL

Please explain the purpose and method of this grand experiment.

ABR and OmNom are leaning town.

Yep, still need to explain your reads.

Jarvis is scum. #25, #28, #40, #56 are a good example of how to simulate scumhunting: You don't look for scummy things, you decide on an easy target (in that case, OmNom and UberNinja as people who often get lynched early and N as a newbie), take something they do that's actually innocuous (voting everybody and saying "scum is in there" is not a scumslip, just as not having scumreads in a game with mostly random stuff happening by the start of page 2 isn't).

I've never played with Om before - at least not to my memory, which I'm pretty confident in. Also lol you're trying to say I attacked UN. I asked him

one question

. All of that is just a narrative anyway; "you're not attacking them because you think they're scum, you're attacking them because they're easy to lynch". Do you actually have anything to support that, or is it just "look at these posts, he's doing this"?

And yeah, please do explain to me the town motive for self-voting in RVS. Because that's what I'm not seeing, and what I've questioned.

Also lol you're voting N too.

I don't recall ever saying it was a scumslip. What I don't see, as mentioned above, is why town would self-vote there. Perhaps you could enlighten me, seeing as you're so sure it isn't indicative at all.

And of course he immediately switched to me when he noticed I was at L-1 and could probably get away with a hammer. I've already said why the "sneaky" L-1 vote wasn't "sneaky" - L-1 wasn't declared in this game before and my L-1 vote wasn't the first. The rest is basically pointless back-and-forth.

Again the narrative bullshit. I declared intent to hammer because you were refusing to explain yourself  and stalling to high hell.

AND WHAT'S THIS? "My silent L-1 vote wasn't so because two people did it before". How the fuck is this town behaviour?

And I've responded to that already so.

Explain this to me, IceGuy. Why were you happy to sit around and stall while someone you apparently had such a confident scumread on threatened to hammer?

And why exactly it took you five hours to come in and post that.

Oh, and of course why you felt it was unnecessary to announce your L-1 vote this time?

Shit man, IceGuy is being pretty convincing.
I agree with a lot of his Jarvis case, but I'd rather see a reaction from Jarvis before I vote.

NICE U-TURN YOU GOT THERE

Fate...
You're too predictable...
I knew you would vote me for that.

lolself-awarescum

IceGuy is obvtown to me now

This really needs explanation.

I like N a whole lot more given these recent posts. Like way more. There's still stuff that needs addressing by him though.

UNVOTE: N
VOTE: Kcdaspot

What are you actually doing?

[Jarvis]

Om and IceGuy are today's lynches thank you goodnight.

If you hammer IceGuy and he flips town, I won't hesitate to hammer you.

k.

Method: Behaving in an extremely non-useful yet clearly non-scummy way.
Purpose: Catching people like you trying to get a mislynch through instead of scumhunting.

Clearly non-scummy? Yeah, please do elaborate on that one for me. I'm really not seeing it.

Not explaining town reads unless absolutely necessary. Explaining town reads gives scum clues how to behave in a towny way.

Any scum with the slightest idea about how to win at mafia knows how too "behave in a towny way". They don't need clues. So explain.

Which is irrelevant. I think I've already played with OmNom but it's not easy to miss his reputation if you're often around the site.

Do you see me often around the site?

Nice spin. I have your posts to support that.

If you're still trying to suggest I was attacking UN, you can go and read those posts you have.

But yeah, go on, get those posts and support it.

Explain to me the scum motive for voting every player including oneself in RVS.

Avoids taking a stance on any single player. Thus avoids being held accountable for anything, and avoids attracting anyone's attention in particular.

Yes, but for a different reason. Having unlimited votes means voting every scumread instead of just the top one. Why are you not voting N (any more)? 

BUT THE REASON DOESN'T MATTER YOU'RE VOTING HIM BECAUSE HE'S NEW OBV

Anyway.

"I like N a whole lot more given these recent posts. Like way more. There's still stuff that needs addressing by him though."

It's not indicative of alignment. Period. You blowing it up as something that could be relevant at all is not towny behavior.

Not what I asked.

Explain what the scum motivation behind that would've been. I've explained the town motivation behind it; you've failed to explain the scum motivation.

Explain what the scum motivation behind that would've been. I've explained the town motivation behind it; you've failed to explain the scum motivation.

I'd have thought it was obvious. You know, you've pulled a bunch of reads out of your arse and can't explain them. Or you're just trying to look town. Or you found yourself at L-1 with intent to hammer declared and REACTION TEST was your only realistic way out.

I don't know, since when was it necessary to explain why scum do what they do? That just opens the door to all sorts of shitty narrative-based reasoning.

Why is it not town behavior to vote scum? Do you think every L-1 vote needs a big, fat "L-1" for idiots who can't read VCs, especially in a game where there are a lot of L-1s (as of now, there are three players on L-1)?

Why do you feel is it necessary to announce L-1 votes?

It's not town behaviour to respond to questions with "I didn't do it because these other people didn't either". There is no way that comes from a town mouth.

The unlimited voting has the side effect of making votes a hell of a lot harder to keep track of. Not being someone who likes accidental quickhammers, I'd prefer it if we avoided that possibility. It's not like it's hard to do - unless you're

an idiot who can't read vote counts

.

Your continued reaction to my experiment only made me confident in my scum read.

At which point, then, were you sure about your scum read? And why did you continue then?

Because your explanation of your scumread suggests you were pretty sure I was scum before you even began your 'experiment'.

I posted the first post in the morning right after getting up and revisited it later, thinking I should probably not play this any longer or I'd really get lynched.

You didn't worry that from the very start? You know, after I declared intent to hammer?

Why didn't you post it earlier - nothing changed between your two posts...?

Also, you attacking OmNom is a continuation of your opportunistic behavior.

Oh it's for opportunism now is it? Because well... That's pretty opportunistic of you, seeing as there's at least one other player you could

easily

fit this description to.

[Jarvis]

@Om -

Nice meta you have there. I liked the one where you replaced in - as if that is at all relevant to this situation. But hey.

All I see there is that you are much more inclined to give your own opinions and make cases as town, while your scum play is more reserved and has you seemingly withholding opinions. I see the latter here, without a doubt.

OOH and let's have a look at your wiki selfmeta.

As Town:
~Motivational problems if the game has low activity
~Aggressiveness and thirst for blood
...
~Frequent yelling
~High activity, especially near the start of the game
...
~Getting annoyed at people when they don't listen to me

Nope.

~Lower activity
~More reserved
~More contradicting
~Not as involved
~Focus on mainly one or two people
~Gut, but not pushing it as hard

OH YES DING DING DING

Still trying to get your mislynches through, I see.

Save this unnecessary bullshit.

Why wouldn't scum have simply answered the questions/responded to the pressure and ended the whole back-and-forth?

Bolded for importance.

You asked me this before.

"I'd have thought it was obvious. You know, you've pulled a bunch of reads out of your arse and can't explain them. Or you're just trying to look town. Or you found yourself at L-1 with intent to hammer declared and REACTION TEST was your only realistic way out.

I don't know, since when was it necessary to explain why scum do what they do? That just opens the door to all sorts of shitty narrative-based reasoning."

No. You either have no clue how mafia works or you're scum. My bet is on the latter.

LOL I HAVE NO CLUE HOW MAFIA WORKS?

Any scum with the first fucking clue about this game knows they have to act town. Any scum with the first fucking clue about this game knows how to act town. THEY DO NOT NEED TO BE TOLD THIS.

Often enough to possibly know about OmNom's reputation.

So this is stretching the truth. Om knows it too.

I already mentioned them above.

Um no. You said "oh these postsare scummy because he did this". Go get those posts and actually support it with reference to their content, rather than bullshit generalised statements.

Nobody takes a stance in RVS, that's why it's RVS. RVS-based reasoning is generally shitty. Try again.

RVS has to have meaning because at some point the town has to get out of it, which requires reads. Posts such as those discussed give no information and so impair the town's ability to move out of RVS and do something useful.

So what you're trying to say is, "The most likely mislynches for today are you and OmNom, not N, so I'm dropping it quietly for now and will return to it tomorrow."

No.

If you're going to keep spinning this kind of translation-narrative crap then I won't bother to respond.

You may have noticed that N was at L-1 when I unvoted. So still pretty likely the way I see it, I don't know about you.

See above: Why would I have even let it come to this if I was scum?

Because you didn't

let it come to this

. You were already at L-1.

Since the game of Mafia was invented. Or are you claiming that you aren't actually interested in the alignment of players and are just looking for things that you can spin as scummy?

Nope. "Hey he just did something scummy, but I don't know why he did it as scum." No. That just introduces massive amounts of WIFOM into your scumhunting.

Of course that's relevant - somebody else does it, you say nothing, your designated mislynch does it, you claim it's definitely scummy behavior. That's something that needs to be called out.

Don't even fucking go there. I questioned it each time. And hey, I don't even remember calling it scummy at all. All I did was ask for further explanation. Looking a bit self-conscious there, aren't you?

So why didn't you request L-1 announcements in your first post if they are so important for you?

I assumed people would be kind enough to add a little "oh, by the way, that's L-1, so don't accidentally hammer". You know, as is good town play. You are making this into something it isn't. Answer the original question and quit this extended dodge.

I wasn't sure - I had a suspicion. The back-and-forth made me sure.

What about it?

No, because I didn't think you'd like to draw the heat that comes with a hammer that early.

Oh look the narratives again. This implies you were pretty damn sure I was scum.

Reading comprehension fail.

Nope. What changed between those two posts that made you suddenly feel you were so much more likely to get lynched?

You are on the two most opportunistic lynches today. What's your point?

"Somebody else does it, you say nothing, your designated mislynch does it, you claim it's definitely scummy behavior. That's something that needs to be called out."

[Jarvis]

Ehhh fuck responding to IceGuy.

Maestro get in here because I'm not hammering before you do.

Fate, you're still voting me why?

[Jarvis]

wow I should've just hammered when I had the chance

N, vote IceGuy because we've obviously got some derptown here between OmNom and Maestro.

Way to leave me at L-1 because LOL HAI GUYS I AGREE WITH ICEGUY

Also Fate stop leaving me at L-1 with OmNom being all "oh yeah Jarvis is suddenly suspicious now"

If scum knows how to act town, why do we do this whole scumhunting stuff? If that would be the case, town and scum would be indistinguishable.

You're not this dense. I can read recipes, they tell me how to cook things. That doesn't give me three fuckig michelin stars.

Any scum worth his salt knows what he needs to do to look town, but they get caught when their scum motivations shine through.

EVERYONE PLEASE TAKE NOTICE OF THE IRRELEVANT TANGENTS ICEGUY IS PUSHING TO AVOID ANSWERING QUESTIONS

So what you're saying is that there is no point to look at motivations? That you'd happily lynch a player where you know it made no sense to act as he did as scum just because he dropped something you generally consider a scumtell?

Way to blow that out of proportion. I talked about why a couple of posts back. I don't need to give a definite HE DID THIS BECAUSE THIS.

Quotes please.

You've already addressed obe occasion directly. I'd have thought you'd have read my posts more closely, seeing as you're referencing them against me.

does not mean the L-1 vote was a scumtell for you?

I wanted an explanation. You said there was no reason. So I gave you a reason. Your refusal to do so, LOLREACTIONTEST, and now this dodging questions is what makes you scum.

What do you mean?

I'll be more explicit. Fate is on what you call the two most opportunistic lynches in the game. You don't mention it. You barely mention him at all. Yet you are using it as the cornerstone of your case against me. Hence the relevant quote.

The rest does not deserve a response. Someone get this scumfuck back up to L-1 so I can hammer him.

[Jarvis]

Yeah not waiting days for another replacement.

VOTE: IceGuy

BYE BYE SCUM

I'm fine yo being at L-1, what's your problem with it?

Because I'm not on the list of people being lynched today. And there's two unexplained votes hanging around on me.

[Jarvis]

Oh wow. Congrats on being terrible, IceGuy.

BEEP BOOP re-evaluate.

VOTE: Om of the Nom

Yeah still scum.

VOTE: Yos

Possible-scum for hanging back on IceGuy with occasional encouraging statements while I took the shit and the hammer.

But that's not what we're doing. Plan hasn't changed.

[Jarvis]

Someone help me separate the derptown from the scum here.

jarvis what do you mean by re-evaluate?

IceGuy flipped town. Re-evaluation of my reads is necessary.

BTW some of your reads are just lol. Fate has been transparent about his reads? Apart from OmNomScum, nope. Maestro not sheeping WHAT IS THIS SHIT? Yos has done nothing scummy? Except soft-push a mislynch and lurk through it.

And how you can have me as scum with OmNom anything but town is just lol. Have you really thought that through?

VOTE: Fate

Where did that come from?

Guys, I'll have you know I have used self-meta a lot as town, and I definitely can back that up.

...but now you're using it as scum. Look, SHUT UP about your meta. Knowing your town meta this well means you can sure as fuck play to it as scum. All you have done this game is fuck around at the start, contributing nothing, proclaim IceGuy obvtown for no real reason and sheep him, reversing your read on me, and say

"but guys look I can't be scum look at all my meta pleeeeaaasseee"

. You need to die quick.

Oh wow. Congrats on being terrible, IceGuy.

This doesn't sound like a townie reaction. I would think town would be more angry at the fact that they lynched a townie than the fact that that townie played "horribly" (IceGuy was obvtown you fuckers).

Really? Can you

definitely back

that

up?

This is just taking pot shots. I don’t give a shit that I lynched IceGuy. Town is better off for it anyway; he was right on the wrong fucking track. Well, except for the fact that it gives scum a nice easy mislynch to push with the whole

”X was town, he said Y was scum, ergo Y is scum”

fallacy. But still, why would I be angry because I lynched a townie?

So Kcda was in the middle of being replaced and ABR was on V/LA...
Yep, this sounds like an opportunistic scum wagon to me.
One of Yos/Jarvis is definitely scum, and right now I'm leaning towards Jarvis. N may or may not be scum, I haven't decided yet.

Well except if I was as opportunistic scum as you describe surely I would’ve hammered IceGuy before UN got replaced? But don’t let that discourage you.

VOTE: Jarvis

Sorry what is this? When did you suddenly get a LETS RUSH HIM TO L-1 scumread on me?

If IceGuy flips scum, good; if not, Jarvis is looking pretty damn suspicious now.

I'm sure one of them is scum

, and seeing as how it wasn't IceGuy, it must be Jarvis.

lolwhy?

You sound pretty damn sure. Why didn’t you ever mention this before?

Yeah you can have a vote too.

VOTE: N

L-1 for Jarvis. Let's not get complacent about lynching in this game just because we have 2 a day...

Yeeeaaah you’re still probtown. Now be protown and lynch scum like a good townie.

[Jarvis]

Self-vote then.

[Jarvis]

Om isn't going to talk to me and N doesn't appear to have bothered to read. But I'll continue, even if it feels like I'm talking to the population of Prez's classroom.

Have a look at that wall. Have you ever seen a wall so defensive? Ain't it a beauty!

Did that mislynch give you all this newfound confidence? You seemed pretty unsure of things before. Do you expect me to just let you fucks mislynch me without a word?

Perhaps you could spend your time answering the numerous questions I have put to you over the course of the day instead of ingoring them and making shit posts like this.

Just a suggestion.

[Jarvis]

Oh Fate...

You have no idea.

[Jarvis]

Yeah well played Mehdi. Not great on my end though it looked like I had a few people fooled, but getting accidentally quickhammering by Fate sucked.

Don't have access to the QT link now, but all there was was kcda screaming cos he was scum and Fate was town.

Also kcda was pretty useless.