Mini 343: Donnie Darko 0:0:0:0 Game Over

[Sentinel99]

Vote: EmpTyger

for having the most eye-catching name to me.

[Sentinel99]

unvote

[Sentinel99]

I think chamber has a good point there. Scumminess isn't definite. What some call scummy others barely notice. It really helps to play or read several games in which others are involved to get a good read on them. Especially if its an old game, and you can tell definately the player's alignment. It helps you to pick up on their individual habits. I think that this wagon is a little strange. As chamber has said, it's a clash of ideas, not anything actually tangible.

That said, I find chamber to be irritatingly obstinate about his vote on MeMe. chamber, can you say specifically why you're on MeMe so?

[Sentinel99]

During the twilight, I would like to point something out to Ixnayonthehombre: I'm the one who said that chamber always plays like that in past games. Also, I wasn't so much defending chamber, as much as saying that I didn't think there was justification for a lynch of chamber.

[Sentinel99]

Man, I really have to quit checking in every three days or so. Okay, I mean, seriously, verbose much? Uh, I would like to respond to MeMe I think it was who addressed me specifically: I made a reference to chamber's past behavior, but I didn't come out and say it like the other player. See post 59 for my reference. Ultimately, I didn't agree that there was anything lynch-worthy in the entire debate, and I thought we were wasting both our time and a lynch, which irritated me. I mean, I know we can afford a few mislynches, and that they're a part of the early game, but it still bugs me to see townies die. I prefer to wait until I see something tangible that I can point out as reason for my votes. *shrug* I hope that's what you had in mind by wanting to see my reaction.

[Sentinel99]

Quick request: can somebody throw up some Cliff's Notes to this game? It has waxed quite verbose.

[Sentinel99]

Wanted to quickly apologize, I do need to be replaced. Things got really crazy all at once, and are just now dying down again. Sorry to detract from the game.

[Sentinel99]

Well, if I'm still in, I can still be in. I figured I was already replaced when I got back here (earlier today). I thought I'd just apolgize to be polite, and as I in fact just mentioned, things got really hectic for a while, and now I've got time on my hands again. Also, I don't think you can really moniter my activitiy anywhere else on the site and use that in a particular game.

I've been out of commission for almost this entire month, and I get back to read posts saying I've been replaced, or will be when the mod gets back. I mean, I'm sorry, but stuff came up, and I can't exactly structure my entire life around a GAME. I mean, if you guys will still have me, I'll try and catch up real fast.

[Sentinel99]

Okay, getting ready for a complete reread, starting at Post One, and reading all the way through. Also, to clarify, I didn't mean "need" to be replaced, as in I can't play anymore. I meant "need" as in my prolonged abscences were a detriment to the game. Perhaps I more closely meant "deserve" to be replaced. And I honestly am sorry about the absences. If I had realized how crazy things were going to get (in my life), I wouldn't have joined the game, or I would have asked for a replacement after I was in. I realize that I'm going to have to work my arse off to regain any semblance of trust from you guys at this point, so I guess I'll get to it.

[Sentinel99]

Okay, caught up... more or less. This has been a convoluted game with a ton of twists and turns. Looking back and trying to stay objective has helped, as has letting a lot of the "at the moment" fade from the posts. I tend to get a little heady when I'm reading through as they unfold. Perspective really helps. This has been a really good game, and I wish I had remained active throughout.

I think that STD is the scummiest. He seems to have a freakishly strong hold on the popular sentiment in this game. In my notes, I wrote down that in post 26, STD seems to be deliberately spinning chamber's comments. This could just be an honest misunderstanding, but it doesn't feel that way to me. There seems to be a definite link between STD and Scale, however, that I can't figure. Scale has followed STD since the earliest stages. Could just be a coincidental agreement, a compliment of playstyles, but I doubt it. We can't really afford to assume coincidence in this game.

MeMe, also disturbs me, but that's prolly largely just OMGUS-bias creeping in. The biggest problems I've had with MeMe are from the very beginning of the game when she jumps all over chamber within half an hour of asking him questions. That, and I just don't really care for her playstyle, but I really don't think that I can do anything about that, nor should I. MeMe is pretty pro-town in my book.

Chess is my favorite player so far, he's contributed more than just about anybody. Emp kind of freaked me out with his claim of CK's death. I'm having trouble finding the point that we backed down from the danger-zone there, meaning I can't seem to find the post that causes us to accept the vig claim.

Nobody else has really jumped out at me.

[Sentinel99]

Okay, thanks for clarifying. I probably would've known that, if I'd bothered to keep up at the time.

So, currently, who does everyone suspect most? Besides me. I know that I've got a lot of work to do to gain any sembalence of credibility. ... Deja vu... did I already say that?

[Sentinel99]

Now, this is in no way objective, but if there is a link between Scale and STD, then they could have knocked it off when Chess mentioned it. Maybe I'm grasping at straws here, but that's one way I see it.

[Sentinel99]

Okay, the first time STD caught my eye was post 26, when it felt like he was trying to spin things against chamber. Largely this was due to the fact that I didn't see the lynch, as we all remember. Scale jumps in at post 33 with weak logic, then backs it up in 36, after Sotty calls him on it. Then Scale mentions grammer as a factor in his vote (says that he tries to not vote because of grammatical errors, I believe), then claims that chamber's logic and reasoning are weak. Then, in post 40, scale blows all the work he's just put into it by trying to further clarify. Claims that the first vote on somebody is a bandwagon attempt on the part of chamber. He completely ignores the other facet of the debate. Not necessarily scummy, per se, but a common mistake EVERYBODY makes when arguing.

Post 41, STD argues that chamber is contradicting himself, when chamber was clarifying two different points in the post that STD references. STD leaves this out, takes things out of context.

(Post 61, Emp seems to misunderstand the whole chamber/MeMe thing, says that AniX is at the center of the debate. It was never really about AniX at all, it was about the act of "lurker hunting".)

(MeMe: in 112 you say that my posts don't support my claim of pointing out chamber's game habits. This has been a serious sticking point for you. Post 59, the fourth sentence. I didn't expressly say what I was saying there. For future reference, I will always spell out exactly what I mean.)

Post 119... so much in Post 119. Instead of trying to clarify any questions brought against him, STD alternates between being obstinate ("prove it") and goofing off, when I thought there were some legitimate concerns voiced. He backtracks a little with post 127, but it was mostly trying to justify post 119.

Post 131, STD says he's voting AniX for not posting after being "laid back and noncommital" the previous day. ... Right... So, it was a scumtell that he continued to act the exact same as he did the day before?

Emp questions MeMe about possibly killing CK, and then claims it himself all in a couple posts. *shrug* Still confused by the claim.

Post 149, STD pulls his pressure vote off. AniX didn't contribute, but he removed anyway. I think it was a kind of failed bandwagon, and then getting ready to jump all over Emp.

158-160, seems like MeMe is on to something, and then just... Nope. Okay. All done.

Post 170, STD (possibly protecting his scum buddy) mentions that there is a legitimate case building against Scale, but he would prefer to lynch somebody who just isn't posting. What kind of logic is that? When you've got a Scale in the hand, you're gonna go after AniX in some bush?

Okay, so that's the first half of the game. I'll let you guys digest and work on the second half tomorrow.

[Sentinel99]

I know I said I'd get cracking on the second half of this game, but it's like 1 in the morning, and I'm exhausted. I'll try and give it a go tomorrow, but I can't make any promises. Holiday weekend and all.

[Sentinel99]

Why did you bother to remove your random vote in [37]? Your D1 twilight post is a little bizarre still. But very little actual suspicion jumps out about; it’s the lurking and the replacement lie that are suspicious. I just do not believe your story about thinking you were already replaced; you said that you *do* need to be replaced, not that you *did* need to be replaced.

I removed my random vote because actual conversation was coming into play. It's something I always do. Now, I've tried explaining this, and nobody seems to believe me, which I totally understand, but it's starting to grate on the nerves a bit. I DID NOT LIE ABOUT REPLACEMENT. When I got back to the game, the thread was abuzz with the "replace Sentinel" sentiment. Also, the guest mod said I was replaced, only he didn't have my role. Ergo, I assumed that I was already out of the game. And I mispoke when I said "I do need to be replaced" I meant, deserved, as I've already said. Please, can we just let that go, and move on with the game? Also, sorry I didn't have time to go over the last half of the game this weekend. Went home for the holiday. I'll get cracking on that ASAP, as we're deadlined.

Lastly, if you want a vote, you're going to have to wait. I need to take a hard look at the last seven pages, otherwise I'm going to cast a vote based on first half information.

[Sentinel99]

Okay, I vote we go all USA PATRIOT Act on Emp. Seriously, we're getting down to the wire, and you claim to have information that you also claim to know is bad for us. If you've got something legitimitely earth-shattering, now would be a good time to share. Otherwise... Hmm... I was about to advocate a lynch, but I don't know if you're scummy, per se. Hurting the town, yes. I'm going to

vote: EmpTyger

.

[Sentinel99]

Okay... This is hard to put into words...

By willfully withholding information, Emp could potentially be creating a situation in which the town will rush into a lynch uninformed. I think that if you have some solid evidence that the town can work on, than you should disclose it and allow everybody a chance to go over it. Maybe somebody can see things differently than you. I don't see how withholding information can help the town. I mean, maybe, holding out on roleclaims, I understand that, but that's not so much withholding, as it's expected in the game. Ultimately, Mafia is a team game. You can't look at things, try and figure it all out yourself, and then try and convince everybody to go along with you. If you do try that, you're branded scummy, as has happened to me before. In Urban Legends Mafia, I

knew

that one player was mafia, but since I hadn't been pointing all the giveaways out the whole time, the town was (rightfully) loath to believe me.

[Sentinel99]

@ STD: You backed down the last half of the game. It feels like you're town. Maybe you got a little aggressive at points, and then realized that people were starting to distrust you, and so you corrected. Like I alluded, I've been working off of suspicions from the beginning of the game. Now that I've utterly caught up, and had time to mull things over a bit, you don't seem as suspicious.

Now, maybe this is just because you're smart scum. But, I don't think scum would be so level-headed and helpful. I'm starting to think that the "link" between you and scale was scum (scale) playing it smart and aligning with a townie to throw supsicion should he get caught.

At olio:

There is value in keeping information hidden. (If there weren’t, then we would have massclaimed yesterday.) So information that I see reason to revealed I will reveal. (As I have done so.) Information that I feel should not be revealed, or information I am not sure about, I will not reveal.

[In the interests of making a distinction between chamber’s behavior and mine- chamber’s lynch was clearly not in his best interests, thus he should have revealed his information.]

Ixnayonthehombre [cont] wrote:
Could you please explain this? "I'm talking about that there's no way for me to know that there isn't a real vigilante out there." ...? and please explain what you mean by - "I’m already going to stand or fall on the vigilante claim. "<snip>

My nameclaim will not aid in determining my guilt or innocence. Regardless of my alignment, I’m capable of killing a player. I’m going to be claiming a character for who being a vigilante would make sense, and thus a character for who a killing role would make sense, and thus who conceivably could be mafia or a SK. So the only advantage (for the town, at least) in my doing so would be to see if I get counterclaimed- and the vigilante claim, which doesn’t give any additional information away- is perfectly capable of doing so.

How could a nameclaim not aid in determining guilt or innocence? I mean, there are good guys and bad guys in this movie.

[Sentinel99]

OMGZ! Sotty disappeared and then came back! HAX! LYZOR!!!!

Okay, sorry, I needed to vent. Anyway, to address your concerns, it's actually a little bit of both. I reread the whole thing, and that jumped out at me as one of the weirdest things that happened. Somebody turns up dead, everybody assuming that the scum did it, and then somebody claiming it without a nameclaim. Claims that a name won't help us decide guilt or innocence. I understand that most of the town has already moved past this, but it's a bit of a mental sticking point for me. By which I mean it's like a fishbone, I can't get it out of the throat of my mind.

[Sentinel99]

Yeah, we did win Urban Legends. People finally went along with me, plus Blue made a really weird play at the end, claiming a magical one-shot cop ability.

Can anyone give me a quick rundown of the case against Chess? And, if Chess were lynched, who would you target, Emp?

When Chess came in, I saw him posting, and being generally helpful, voicing many of my own concerns. Now, however, I'm starting to think maybe I misread, and that I was willing to believe anything he said because he was thinking along the same lines as me. Lately, he's started to sounds some bells, so I just want to see expressly stated everything against him, and allow him a chance to respond.

[Sentinel99]

Just to clarify for the last time: lurking is when somebody reads the game but doesn't post anything, for the express purpose of staying out of sight. What I did is called "abandoning". I literally didn't look at the site for a month. I in fact unplugged from most of the Internet. I got busy for a month. *shrug* It happens, and I understand how you guys are feeling about me. It looks like I'm dead, so good luck.

[Sentinel99]

So, I'm dead, right?