Mafia Behind the Maiden (Game over!)

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Pfffffft.

This is not Outwitted. There aren't two trackers.

Vote: DDD

[Lady Lambdadelta]

(for those of you who do not get the reference, in outwitted there were 2 town trackers who CC'd eachother and both died. )

Also, Glork: why is DDD only scum alone? If he was the last scum, it wouldn't make any sense for him to be counter claiming unless he was down to 1 target and knew the last one?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also, what's this confirmable shit?

Everyone on that list except Tammy has claimed their country.

Further, what kind of investigations are those? Tammy was pretty much town by N2. You investigated Glork N5 after he had been TURNED TO STONE?

The investiagtions he's giving are closer to what I would expect a scum rolecop to be doing.

And with the Hindu thing today, I feel certain that DDD didn't rolecop last night. Instead he chose to make the kill on Alchemist, and let his buddy the RB take his turn.

He's been planning this counter claim for days, to get information he needs for his last scum buddy. It's probably someone who's considered pretty damn town for him to be putting the entire game in their hands?

[Vi]

Mini Vote Count (45):

Aran
Gammagooey (L-7) ~ singersigner
Debonair Danny DiPietro (L-7) ~ Lady Lambdadelta

Not Voting:

Teleporting Speed Hippos, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Gammagooey, Glork, Hinduragi, Katsuki,

Lady Lambdadelta,

Magister Ludi, Nikanor,

singersigner,

Tammy, Tierce, ToastyToast, danakillsu

--With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

73

[Glork]

Also, Glork: why is DDD only scum alone? If he was the last scum, it wouldn't make any sense for him to be counter claiming unless he was down to 1 target and knew the last one?

Behavioral tells and/or role clearance. (Also, game balance.)

Currently, I am of the opinion tha there's probably only one scum left, but I am also of the opinion that there's only about one target on The List left.

I need to review some things though, and am at work now. My physical notes are not at work right now.

[Gammagooey]

wellll there goes any chance of getting reads that don't consist of pretty much unreadable counterclaim-related opinions.

i have no intention of voting in the next few days regardless of how baller glroks plan is and more than likely that'll last through the weekend. i would encourage others to do the same and read through stuff. lots of stuff.

don't really have anything else to say right now.

[Glork]

My plan isn't as airtight as I thought. I'm pretty sure I'm still missing one kill, which means DDD would have to have a colleague -- very likely Toasty, given Alch claimed to have blocked him on the night of the missing kill.

I think last night, DDD made the kill (while Alch blocked Toasty again), ad Toasty blocked TSH to ensure the kill went through.

I'm about 75% certain DDd and/or Toasty is the play today. Again, needs review.

[Magister Ludi]

POSTING from a v/la half way across the world in europe

I am

NOT FROM NOT from one of {Bengion, Serenes, Goldoa}.

Repeat, not from those places.

[Gammagooey]

oh glork have you considered that the role you're looking for also isn't scum but isn't in the game at all? vi-trolling is pretty stronk you know.

[Glork]

oh glork have you considered that the role you're looking for also isn't scum but isn't in the game at all? vi-trolling is pretty stronk you know.

Yes, and I've conferred with Vi over this possibility (I think I even mentioned possibly being a C-3PO, a reference to a similar role in my recent Weater Mafia). I do not believe is all that likely.

Plus, even without the existence of my target, it doesnt really change most of the people we can write off for behavioral tells, like Tierce, TSH, etc.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

N1: SpyreX - Gallia (Hence why I was annoyed with him when he claimed no country and why I solved the puzzle first)
N2: Tammy - Kilvas
N3: KKB - Crimea
N4: Benmage - Begnion
N5: Glork - (I have a result, I am not claiming it in deference to Glork, I will at his request)
N6: Hindu - Begnion (Like LLD I forgot that Hindu had apparently country claimed)

Why did you target each of the players you targeted?

N1 was SpyreX because I was following him on D1 and wanted to make sure that I wasn't wrong and following scum. N2 was Tammy mostly because her early wagon was filled with town reads and because I didn't think much of her votes either. N3 and N4 were both picking up information on lurker replacements. N5 I was running low on people who I was actively suspicious of and I wanted to make sure that Glork's country fish wasn't just scum looking for information and N6 was Hindu because as I mentioned yesterday/two days ago I hated his involvement with Tammy and didn't remember that he had country claimed.

Okay. Thaaaaat's pretty much exactly what I figured was going to happen. DDD, please tell me exactly what country you are from.

If you say so and Crimea.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Also, what's this confirmable shit?

Everyone on that list except Tammy has claimed their country.

I was vastly more confirmable before Vi modkilled two of the people I had investigated; next time I'll tell him not to modkill all of my investigations. That being said, I do have a confirmable result and if you look back I certainly hinted at my role and information I had several times.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Further, what kind of investigations are those? Tammy was pretty much town by N2. You investigated Glork N5 after he had been TURNED TO STONE?

The investiagtions he's giving are closer to what I would expect a scum rolecop to be doing.

And with the Hindu thing today, I feel certain that DDD didn't rolecop last night. Instead he chose to make the kill on Alchemist, and let his buddy the RB take his turn.

If Tammy was so town by N2 why was she picking up votes on D3 and got pressed to claim? And the Glork investigation made a lot of sense between the country fishing and GreyICE using an annoyance ability on him which could easily have been WIFOM.

And the last three lines here aren't grounded in reality at all, they're completely unsupported jabs.

[Glork]

The problem with your "confirmable result," DDD, is that if you're scum, there's like a 90% chance you know -- at the very least -- who I'm looking for, and can easily infer my country without any additional information. Nobody in the game from Goldoa has come forward, and there's zero doubt in my mind now that Prince Kurthnaga is scum. LLD, feel free to consider any future Goldoa result (other than me) as being definite scum.

That said, even if you are a country cop, there's no guarantee of your alignment, and your play hasn't sat well with me.

I'm going to seek clarification on the added defense/protection I got while I was stoned. I'm also going to check on something else.


But given that I am seeking an anti-town role, and there are two claimed Country Cops, I'm fairly certain tat one of {DDD, LLD, Glork} is the play. Right now, I'm thinking lynch DDD, have Toasty block/neighborize LLD if DDD is town, and put me off for another day while I continue to look for Kurth.

BTW, Kurth, if you're third-party, and esp if you're responsible for the daykills we had earlier, please come forward. Flavor indicates that I might simply be a Psychiatrist. Turning you town would fix a lot of things.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

That said, even if you are a country cop, there's no guarantee of your alignment, and your play hasn't sat well with me.

Oh I'd love to hear how my play has actually been scummy outside of D1 where I was in cruise control; nobody actually gave any reasons in their rush to judgement on D3 and this should be good for a laugh.

[Glork]

Your behavior towards my country soft claim attempts were both unique and consistent with how scum are expected to react to town wanting pseudo-information.
Your behavior regarding Oman/Nexus is something I've already gone over.
Your reaction to tr near-lynch on you isn't as strong a tell for me, but doesn't feel like a genuine town reaction. I will need to look over this one, though.

I also haven't parsed your D5/D6 play, but to be frank, right now I'd expect DDDtown to be more interested in a holistic, team-oriented solution to winning the game as opposed to just playing appease-the-Glork.

[Tammy]

Hmm...so DDD country cops me Night Two. I do believe his claim, as it fits with him saying he believed my country claim on day 3. His wagon rises at the start of day 3. So, he learns that I'm from Kilvas, which is a non-Daein country, and who does he choose to start his counterwagon on?

I have another question, why did the Tammy wagon originally fall apart? Looking back it's filled with lots of town names and no confirmed scum.

@Tierce, and we trust that LLD is town as well?

@DDDP - We don't. That's why I said likely.

Can't say I have any sort of faith in LLD here given what I know and how strongly I disagree about SpyreX and how she's sloppily sitting on the wagon of awful.

VOTE: Tammy

I find it rather interesting that he uses as a reason for why he investigated me that he didn't think much of my votes. Does he mean the votes I placed? Day one was MoI (fine he was town), Implosion (scum), Quilford (town and who I moved to to get a lynch). Day two was Nexus (scum who I only moved from because of the arguments put forth to give another day and a lack of a counterclaim), and Oman and Nexus again.

So, what was so wrong with my votes?

I just really don't follow the town logic of country copping me, finding out that I'm from a non-Daien nation, and the very next day starting a counter wagon on me.

[Tammy]

Glork - Do you think it's possible that Duplicity was able to kill at day and at night or would that be impossible?

[Glork]

Glork - Do you think it's possible that Duplicity was able to kill at day and at night or would that be impossible?

I am of two minds regarding the daykills. Most likely, I think it's a game mechanic which encourages the players to lynch within 2-3 weeks despite the lack of a deadline. However, I have not ruled out the possibility of a Resistance member, or another third-party role, being responsible for the daykills. (Of those two, I find third-party to be more likely.)

My role PM indicates that I need to stop Kurth from becomong a killer. At first, I assumed he was a protown role, who would kill uncontrollably after a certain point in the game. Now, he's pretty much guaranteed to be

some

kind of anti-town role. The question is, whether he can be saved/converted/changed to being protown, or whether my "finding" him will merely result in him dying/leaving/etc.

Also, note to self to look into DDD's behavior towards his claimed targets. Thanks, Tammy.


Questions for DDD: At the time Grey stoned me and then flipped Daein, did you find a scum-gambit between us to be likely? What advantage would stoning scumGlork have given over someone like TSH, LLD, etc., who also have relevant roles/abilities, aside from "town cred"?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Your behavior towards my country soft claim attempts were both unique and consistent with how scum are expected to react to town wanting pseudo-information.

I'm not sure what this actually means.

Your behavior regarding Oman/Nexus is something I've already gone over.

I'm pretty sure you made the exact same play; given the information we had at the time it was the sensible play regardless of alignment.

Your reaction to tr near-lynch on you isn't as strong a tell for me, but doesn't feel like a genuine town reaction. I will need to look over this one, though.

You really do because if you think that was a scum reaction you really aren't in touch with how I play.

I also haven't parsed your D5/D6 play, but to be frank, right now I'd expect DDDtown to be more interested in a holistic, team-oriented solution to winning the game as opposed to just playing appease-the-Glork.

I'm not interested in appeasing you; I'm giving you the best shot to put together a working plan possible. I could've held back my information/role because there was no need for me to claim there but instead I think it makes sense for you to be working off the most accurate information possible. And if I think your plan sucks I'll tell you, not just blindly go along with it but I can't evaluate something I can't see.

[Glork]

So why aren't you giving me your input as to who are scum, who to lynch, how to handle unresolved claims/abilities, etc.? You can say you don't want to appease me until you're blue in the face, but I don't see you working towards a solution. I just see you giving me answers you think I want to here, and nothing more.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

So, he learns that I'm from Kilvas, which is a non-Daein country, and who does he choose to start his counterwagon on?

I think I've made it very clear that I don't think scum is entirely from Daein and that there are numerous false positives and negatives and when I examined the provided flavor for your country it seemed one of the more likely choices for non-Red scum.

[Hinduragi]

While I get that this is closing in on the size of a Mini now, there are still people sitting on the sidelines chilling.

2. Teleporting Speed Hippos
3. Debonair Danny DiPietro
6. Gammagooey
7. Glork
9. Hinduragi
11. Katsuki
12. Lady Lambdadelta
13. Magister Ludi
17. Nikanor
22. singersigner
24. Tammy
25. Tierce
26. ToastyToast
29. danakillsu

Dana, you're confirmed town this game. You should be ashamed of yourself. Nikanor needs death. Imminent world-ending death. Toast might as well be on the same square foot of land when it hits him because he's right there. DDD is another one of these slots but less so in my mind. If the game's still going, Glork/Gamma/singer/ML is where the rainbow ends. Glork is there for the paranoia lynch but trust your gut if you have to make a choice between him and someone else if it's, let's say, LyLo. The rest are there for the "slightly town but not very much so and is the last scum" lynch. Everyone outside of them, minus TSH because I don't trust them for some reason, is ok.

That's how I want to see the ahead days pan out. I could lay out more but the last few days of a game are never going to go as planned, especially if the plan is complicated. I'm down for lynching any of Nikanor/Toast/DDD today. Don't have any qualms with either of the 3, but I do prefer Nikanor. A lot.

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Hippo Love Targets

N1-3, MoI - did not work as MoI is not protectable by us
N4, DDD based on his supposed "confirmable claim" (and because LLDcop was not protectable by us)
N5 + ...no target. "Chaos" took our BG away from us. We were holding off on the claim whilst Alch was alive as a kind of WIFOM protection for him. I imagine we attracted the RB last night anyway, even though it wouldn't have had any impact.

I suspect chaos' interference means scum are getting closer to fulfilling their wincon.
It's scary because, well--even though we're way ahead in numbers, it might not even matter.

DDD's countrycop list is laughable. He's today's lynch.
Toasty can also die for being no-kill-blocked and useless (I don't care about modkills, you should submit at the start of the day and change if necessary).

On that note, however, Glork the issue with your plan ("Toasty blocks X if DDD flips Y) is that Toasty must submit his target before the flip.

...and on a tinfoil note, does anyone else think Tammy's power is...too unbelievably powerful for town? Perma BP that scum need to kill. Or is vi relying on wifom to have us lynch him?

@Hindu </3

[Hinduragi]

And, actually, that makes a fuckton of sense if you look at the blue numbers. When they got tri-modkilled, the numbers went up by 10 or 11.