TM2012: White Flag Mafia (Game Over)

[Equinox]

Vote Count 2.07

Llamarble (3) - Bub Bidderskins, Cogito Ergo Sum, Zachrulez
Cogito Ergo Sum (1) - Captain Falcon
Matias (1) - SocioPath
Nachomamma8 (1) - singersigner
singersigner (1) - Matias
Zachrulez (1) - Nachomamma8

Not Voting (3) - Benmage, Johhog, Llamarble

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

The deadline is Sunday, June 3, 2012, at 7:08 PM EDT (UTC-4).

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Cogito Ergo Sum (1) - Captain Falcon
Matias (1) - SocioPath
Nachomamma8 (1) - singersigner
singersigner (1) - Matias
Zachrulez (1) - Nachomamma8

Not Voting (3) - Benmage, Johhog, Llamarble

Do something useful with your vote.

[singersigner]

Voting doesn't break rules, just do that and the train of thoughts will follow.


As far as who is scummy, I think that Socio guy is scummy as hell.
He has lurked all game, and hasn't provided much content. (if ANY real content)
Hasn't been helpful at all, hasn't been cooperative with the town and clear townies out there.
Still alive D2 despite being on the returning champion's team with all the insight and knowledge that goes with that.
Has said ONE WORD today so far, which only looks to have been said to dodge prods.

I'm sure someone can come up with a better case for this guy.
I think a wagon on him would be very beneficial at this point to see where everyone stands and why.

Anyone who has called him town is scummy as hell, that is for sure.

BUT ENOUGH ABOUT THAT.

So I get that you were downsizing your play D1; was catching everyone calling you town for no reason part of the plan?

[Captain Falcon]

CES, have you ever been town in a game we played together?

Children of Hurin?

Llmarble, where are you and why is Bub town?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Children of Húrin and AFFC.

[Captain Falcon]

Tammy says I am wrong about you because you two have offsite experience.

Do you have any opinion on Nachos bad vote on Zach?

[Benmage]

vote CES

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Tammy says I am wrong about you because you two have offsite experience.

That makes sense. This game certainly feels similar from my perspective.

Do you have any opinion on Nachos bad vote on Zach?

Yes. It is bad and furthers my belief that Nacho and 'marble are both scum.

[Captain Falcon]

She says you were scum in that game... And she was town.

In what way was it similar?

[Captain Falcon]

Benmage, anything else?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I was referring to the second game? I thought she followed that one at least. I don't really get how she'd come to the conclusion that I'm town based on that game.

[Johhog]

I'll also ask yet again why SocioPath isn't scum, because to me his lurking was ten times worse than TSQ's lurking but despite this TSQ was the only one to get called out for it.

What do you think of Zach?

I think he's town but my team was mixed on him last time I checked. We see him as town more than scum though.

[Captain Falcon]

I was referring to the second game? I thought she followed that one at least. I don't really get how she'd come to the conclusion that I'm town based on that game.

She says you aren't being manipulative like you were in that scum game.

[Zachrulez]

Last two pages... urgh.

TSQ has posted on site approx 40 times since this game opened, just so everyone is aware... and Amrun's the leading wagon?

I would have liked this more if you didn't outright ignore the Amrun wagon. Certainly you know it's sort of difficult to get lurkers lynched on posting elsewhere when being absent from the thread, so why didn't you do more to push it?

To come to this conclusion you would have had to ignore day 1 completely...

CES vote from TSQ is unimpressive.

I can sum up the rest of his activity as basically challenging Regfan's scumreads, and then calling Amrun obvtown.

Hardly anything that screams at me to unvote. If nothing else, I want the pressure on him to remain so he doesn't just go and disappear for another week.

Cool story? You haven't exactly been posting much content lately.

Whatever you say.

Looks like
...remainder actually.

In red?

If I put a town read in red, does that make it a scum read? No.
The fact you actually asked this question is ridiculous in a way that made me laugh.

Made you laugh cause you're scum? The whole thing in context is a sensible inquiry man.

I like Bub's Zach vote.

I'm sure you do.

LLamarble is an intelligent player. He is also a good player, touting an impressive win to loss ratio, and even going as far as listing himself an 8 or a 9 in terms of player skill. Although I can't find the thread, I remember his explanation of the reason vividly. Essentially, LLmarble's definition of a good player is the rate of turnaround when replacing into a slot. Turning a bad slot into a protown slot that lives to endgame is one of his primary criteria for viewing another player as "good".

Llmarble's cockiness is just the type of thing that would lead me to believe he chose scum again (given the option). However, that rests on the question - did he have the option? Given his play, I think so.

Llamarble is cocky, but so is everyone else on his team. Magna, Grey, and LLD, right? Unfortunately, I can't double-check it now since I don't have internet, but all 3 of those I consider more arrogant than Llamarble, and all are comfortable as scum. Even then, he's still pretty damn scummy to me at this point.

You couldn't be trying to have it both ways on this issue could you? Nah...

Uh, yes, I believe he's trolling you.

But why does trolling = town?

Honestly, given the amount of strong town reads I have I think there's a great chance of them both being mafia ignoring any connection between them. With that said my biggest worry is that I get NKed tonight to watch the town eat itself alive. I really cannot stress enough how confident I am in Bub/Matias/Captain and Johhog being town and to a slightly lesser extent to you, CES and Benmage. If I do die I want this reads section requoted over and over again.

I don't think that mafia would've killed Reg if any of the first 4 were scum, but that's just me.

Nightkill speculation. Very valuable insight.

Sorry, I am new to this site.

Three days until deadline, and Socio still has what feels like a throwaway vote on Johhog. This is terrible.

And what are you going to do about it? Worthless throwaway comment.

After reading this post in context and his answer to my original question I feel like Socio is likely town.

FATE PULLED THE EXACT SAME THING LAST YEAR
THE SAME THING
"Oh yeah, this is different, I'm changing my ways and becoming calmer and blah, blah, blah."
People picked up on it, and so they called him scum. Then he reverted to old Fate, and people found it town. So, Socio will troll until people pressure him, and then he will be the old, active, awesome Socio and he doesn't even explain how he stayed alive so long. Fuck that.

Again, put up or shut up.

I really don't want to reward TSQ's play/lack of play by allowing him to get any deeper in the game, especially when there's a really good chance that it's scum motivated on his part. (To all those arguments that it makes him town. Fuck you.) To me, that's a lot worse than lynching anyone else who's actually bothered to contribute reasonably today.

Vote TSQ in 2012!

You don't want to reward TSQ's lack of play by allowing him to get deeper in the game? Could you explain that, please?

What's there to elaborate on? I think the stance is pretty clear as stated. I think TSQ's lack of activity was scum motivated and I don't want the slot (IE: You) to get deeper in the game because I think it benefits a scum wincon.

Would take a Benmage or Llamarble lynch failing that. Any other wagon is a meh/avoid no lynch wagon.

oh hey this looks kind of familiar.
are you ces?

No, but I think we're both town and on the same wavelength... does that bother you? I wonder why.

UNFORTUNATELY I am going to have to do this earlier than I would have liked, but ALAS this is the last chance I have to vote.

Unvote
Vote: Amrun

I don't care about anyone's cases are theories on Amrun, those are all fine and dandy, but here is the REAL KICKER:

It's magic! Socio, who doesn't do shit the whole game, magically shows up to help lynch Amrun!
No one bats an eye. No one flinches.
God, it would really suck if he was scum. But no one would believe that, would they?

Yet again, put up or shut up.

Feels like you're holding back, and I don't like it at all.

"feels like you're holding back"
what
what what what what what

Don't act so confused. Benmage ain't doing shit, and that's not the Benmage I know.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: CES

yeah, why not bub? it surprising me a bit you shot for llama and ces instead of the guy who was your strongest read yesterday.

So what? Is he scummy for this or what? (Hint: He's town, and this is a ridiculously pointless jab.)

I find singer's push on shea very townie. Extending yourself out so far, putting so much into getting a lynch on a lurker slot... no. I seriously doubt it.

Hey, we've both been laying similar pushes on TSQ, so it should be entertaining to hear from you how you came to different conclusions regarding us. Don't worry, I have popcorn ready.

Because TSQ was lazy scum.

But you're right, we can see how Nacho plays. Knowing Nacho though, I'm expecting more of the same.

And when I end up actually doing something, will you actually make a case, or will you just sheep CES to the bitter, bitter end?

Why does the idea of me sheeping CES bother you so? WHY?

I wasn't bragging. I literally know nothing else as scum and it inevitably leads to me getting caught.

Well, that's interesting because I feel that you've been lurking a fair bit yourself this game while putting pressure on two specific lurkers (Benmage, TSQ), while ignoring the really, really obvious one (SOCIOPATH). Do you disagree with this?

Me lurking? Are you serious? I think I'm going to have to laugh now.

As far as who is scummy, I think that Socio guy is scummy as hell.
He has lurked all game, and hasn't provided much content. (if ANY real content)
Hasn't been helpful at all, hasn't been cooperative with the town and clear townies out there.
Still alive D2 despite being on the returning champion's team with all the insight and knowledge that goes with that.
Has said ONE WORD today so far, which only looks to have been said to dodge prods.

I'm sure someone can come up with a better case for this guy.
I think a wagon on him would be very beneficial at this point to see where everyone stands and why.

Anyone who has called him town is scummy as hell, that is for sure.

BUT ENOUGH ABOUT THAT.

Wow, the first thing you've said that I actually agree with. Nice!

PUT UP OR... ECT.

Did SocioPath regurgitate a read from mid Day 1 that is 100% outdated, using it as a vote for early to mid Day 2?

..Socio, do you really have nothing else to say about anyone else?

Yup.

You're well over the limit of mentioning how scummy socio is without doing anything about it at this point. WAY OVER THE LIMIT.

So, right now, my two scumpicks are Socio and Zach. Socio is scummy as fuck for intentionally lurking his way through the game for ALL of Day 1, and only starting now. Add to that the opportunistic L-1 vote onto Amrun, and I'm feeling pretty good about myself. I also think it's important to note that no one had a scumread on Socio yesterday. Absolutely no one. Town ignores him because he did really good last year and they're hoping for a replay, and scum ignores them because he's their best buddy. If he's town, congrats, he's gained another day, but if that were the case, he could have given the BARE MINIMUM yesterday, and nudged the town in subtle ways that almost certainly wouldn't have gotten him nightkilled.

Cool your narrative on Socio makes way more sense than your narrative on me... yet...

Zach, on the other hand, has been living in CES's shadow the entire game. However, he doesn't have the no-case, push push push playstyle that CES does, and I really, really find it difficult to believe that his and CES's opinions haven't strayed a bit from one another the entire game. Contrast this with singer, who might agree with CES on a lot, still somewhat suspects him, and took a special interest in getting the TSQ lynch. Zach, none of that. Add to that the self-given meta about him liking town more than scum ("even more than singer does!") is suspicious as fuck. I think that he took scum for WIFOM purposes, so he wanted to make damn sure everyone knew about his preference. Then, let's actually look at what he's done. Tried to lynch TSQ for lurking, and tried to lynch Benmage because he feels like he's holding back. While doing nothing himself. And while ignoring Socio who is clearly and obviously holding back and lurking and not giving a fuck about lynching scum in the least bit.

So I'm scum for WIFOM purposes? WOW.

Singer, Matias, CES, and Captain Oversoul are still town all the way.
Ben is still probably town, but I want the dragon to wake up pretty soon.
Bub and Johhog and Llamarble need to post more.
Bub or Llamarble would be backup scum, but it doesn't matter quite yet.

For now,

Vote: Zachrulez

Zach's the stronger read for now, but I'm sure once the elusive "try hard socio" appears and actually responds to my posts, I'll have a lot more to say about that.

AND YOU VOTE ME ON THAT BASIS. ON WIFOM. WITH A STRONGER CASE ON SOCIOPATH. GOOD LORD!

Unvote: Vote: Nachomamma8

I kind of have to since all this bullshit points to Nacho/Socio. (With Socio being the recipient of a bus if necessary.) It indicates I may be wrong about one of my scum reads.

[Benmage]

Benmage, anything else?

Nope.

[Benmage]

Don't act so confused. Benmage ain't doing shit, and that's not the Benmage I know.

Are there any examples of ScumBenmage acting like that? (Hint: the answer is no)

Any examples of TownBenmage acting lackadaisical? (Hint: Yep)

[Benmage]

Zach, slightly confused. Are you reading Nacho as Town or Scum?

[SocioPath]

All that love from Nacho and he can't even look me in the eyes.

[Johhog]

Don't act so confused. Benmage ain't doing shit, and that's not the Benmage I know.

Are there any examples of ScumBenmage acting like that? (Hint: the answer is no)

Any examples of TownBenmage acting lackadaisical? (Hint: Yep)

Oh god, please stop with the WIFOMy self meta.

[Benmage]

Don't act so confused. Benmage ain't doing shit, and that's not the Benmage I know.

Are there any examples of ScumBenmage acting like that? (Hint: the answer is no)

Any examples of TownBenmage acting lackadaisical? (Hint: Yep)

Oh god, please stop with the WIFOMy self meta.

You mean explaining why is "I've never seen Benmage act this way" is stupid....

Meta is awesome. Self Meta. Yeah what?

[Bub Bidderskins]

unvote; vote: zach

That case on nacho is terrible. The whole thing is total fluff that's been trumped up with quotes to make it look like something. It basically boils down to "y u voting me when u say socio scum, too." Which is stupid. The whole case is OMGUS.

[Llamarble]

I HAVE RETURNED.
If anybody actually thinks I was lurking tactically, I am happy to provide a list of the things I've done in the last 10 days.

[Zachrulez]

There's literally no way Nacho comes to the conclusions he has if he's actually legitimately trying to read me. HIS case is literally I chose scum for WIFOM reasons. Cut through all the bullshit, and that's what it is.

[Zachrulez]

unvote; vote: zach

That case on nacho is terrible. The whole thing is total fluff that's been trumped up with quotes to make it look like something. It basically boils down to "y u voting me when u say socio scum, too." Which is stupid. The whole case is OMGUS.

Have you ever caught scum who's voted for you before? It is possible. Lumping everything where someone else votes the voter first as OMGUS is a really narrow way to play the game.

[Zachrulez]

Also Bub, my post wasn't a "case." It was more tearing Nacho's crap down.