New York 152 Niiightless Game Over!

[crypto]

mafiascum.net

[Hiraki]

wow hiraki i can't believe you let him do that to you

I find pleasure in cleansing, crypto.

[Ythan]

Vote Count

4 Nobody Special (noraaa, UberNinja, inte, crypto) L-4
2 Mogri (Pine, Hiraki)
1 Pine (Mogri)
0 petapan
0 BK201
0 Kairyuu
0 crypto
0 Hiraki
0 inte
0 Matias
0 CF Riot
0 noraaa
0 UberNinja
0 Psyche

7 not voting (petapan, BK201, Kairyuu, Matias, CF Riot, Nobody Special, Psyche)

8 to lynch
Deadline May 31

[Mogri]

crypto, pretend to acknowledge 1029, please

congrats on making a case on a player in this game, person who voted another bbmolla five pages after bbmolla was removed from the game

Thanks for pretending, anyway.

[Kairyuu]

To start, the wagon analysis.

Vote 1: Me

I feel that I laid out a pretty decent reason to vote him, and his explosive response convinced me beyond a doubt he was scum. I do not regret the lynch, but that doesn't mean I felt it should have happened that quickly.

Vote 2: Uberninja

I think that the stated reason for voting is solid enough, and he later elaborates on what he didn't like. I've got nothing wrong with this vote.

Vote 3: Pine

Votes with NO explanation. In addition, his previous post, which happened shortly after my response to the initial outburst, had a vote switch to Mogri. I would not be surprised if scum-Pine decided that there was potentially going to be a wagon and jumped on early when it wasn't quite a "real wagon" yet.

This, combined with my previous dislike of what I believe to be mostly fluffposting (aka active lurking) pushes Pine firmly onto my scumlist.

Vote 4: NS

"Not even trying to not be scummy" is the only comment given. While I agree with the sentiment, the lack of actually stating WHY he was voting makes the vote look like blatant wagoning.

NS was already on my radar, and this doesn't help him.

Vote 5: Mogri

Claims to agree with UN's elaboration post and states it as his reason to vote. Some comments of your own would have been nice. Null vote, at best.

While I don't like the vote, my townread of Mogri is still pretty solid.

Vote 6: noraaa

Posts actual rationale. Weak rationale, but considering pretty much all of the other votes, I'm going to mark this a slight towntell.

Town read unchanged.

Vote 7: Techno

Dead townie

Vote 8: Psyche

To be fair, techno had muddied the waters by this time by calling himself scum and ASKING to be hammered, so there's that. At the same time though "usually I'm on the wagon by now" does not sit right with me. Neutral.

All in all, 4 of the votes I dislike, and 2 of them I feel are outright scummy. Now, on to the rest.

@crypto: Could you please explain how anything Techno posted in his defense was "an abundance of evidence that he was town?" I understand that you disagreed with the wagon, but I fail to see how what he did qualified as what you claim.

I don't understand the logic suggesting that freaking out over getting voted is a scum tell. But whatever. I'm not a very good player and I suspect that by the end of this game I will have lynched more than my fair share of townies, so I'll drop it. I just find it difficult to believe that so many people gained a legitimate scum read on him.

It's the mindset. As town, especially vanilla town, your primary motivation is to find and eliminate the scum. Survival is secondary to that. As scum however, your personal survival is very important, as your numbers are inferior to start with, and every scum lynch is a large chunk of your team being eliminated. A player who freaks out over getting voted is putting survival too high on their priorities list. This means that they are probably playing from a scum mindset.

Your preemptive apology for lynching townies is null at best.

I agree with your final sentence though.

@inte:

@Kairyuu quick question, can you link where the actual ad hominem is. yes, this is important

For now I am just passing it off as stupidity

I am just hoping your

idiotic pos

t doesn't catch the attention of what could be a very large cohort of scum voters

But even while angry, I know better. You obviously don't.

This enough evidence that your ONE stupid idea about the two of them having roles dependent on the other is bullshit.

Satisfied?

Regarding 1071: So, since you've seen 3 replacements comment on the person they replaced, and 2 of them were scum, I'm scum for commenting on the person I replaced. Not only that, but I'm one of three people you're willing to lynch right now based on that "tell" alone. I could, and will, point out that the tell is a clear example of a logical fallacy (Correlation implies causation) but I'm much more interested in a different method.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
Vanilla Townie - see iso post 2

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
Mafia 1-shot Global Roleblocker - no mention (to be fair, I replaced in at lylo to an effectively conf-scum playerslot, so it can be discarded if you'd like)

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
Vanilla Townie - no mention (first and, I believe, only attempt at using the replacement strategy of Xylthxlm, which was to refuse to read and get all of my info from other players)

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
Very Scummy Townie - no mention (extreme bastard mod, as evidenced by the fact that I flipped cult recruiter. I had 5 posts before dying and never got around to reading the game)

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
Doctor - see iso post 7 and iso post 10

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
Mason-lover (bit of an odd setup) - see like, 5 or so of my relatively early posts (and this is one of the reasons I consider replacements responsible for their replacees, as I was most CERTAINLY called out for Wall-E's reads and such)

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
Vanilla Townie - no mention

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
Backup doctor (sent vanilla PM) - no mention (automatically discarded as I replaced someone who failed to confirm at game start)

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
Vanilla Townie - see iso post 1 and iso post 5

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
Vanilla Townie - mention, no criticism (automatically discarded since, at the point I replaced in, it was as a confirmed townie)

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
Vanilla Townie - no mention

There you have it (in way more time than I expected). My iso from all 11 games I've replaced into since joining (not counting this one). Of those 11, I was scum only once. When scum, I committed your "tell" 0/1 times, but I'll discard that due to the replacement situation. Of the 10 town games, two of them MUST be discarded since in one I was already confirmed (1 scum left alive going into night and my slot had been inactive from about 1 week before the lynch until I replaced, and thus couldn't have submitted the kill) and in the other there was no predecessor to comment on, since he didn't post even once.

Of the remaining 8 games, I committed the "tell" 4 times. As town. That's a 50% false positive rate. The tell is not a tell.

inte has regained his position at the top of my scumlist for reasons previously stated. I also still don't like NS, and Pine is pretty scummy as well. My previous list said I was scummy of BK201, and I remember him being around but completely ignoring the Techno wagon (like, pretending it wasn't even there), which I don't like (scum avoiding what he knows is a mislynch is what springs to mind) but I just don't FEEL it anymore. I'll reread him after work tomorrow.

I'd be willing to lynch these players today:
inte
NS
Pine
BK201 (pending reread)

vote: inte

Preferred lynch. Will move to NS if necessary.

Going through my entire game history to find the ones I replaced into took WAY TOO FUCKING LONG. If I failed to comment on anything important, let me know. For now, I need to get SOME sleep before work.

[Pine]

I am instinctively wary of Techno's assertion that NS scum = Hiraki scum. Using absolutes like that...it feels like a trap.

Translation: "Graaaah, I'm caught for the wrong reasons!"

You've said this twice now and I still don't know what you mean. What is the right reason to catch someone?

This is actually an excellent example of what I'm talking about. Techo has started to do it over Kairyuu's vote, too.

This is "no explanation" in your book, Kairyuu?

Ah, but right. You replaced Blonde Doctor, who was as clearly newbie-scum as I've seen in some time.

[Kairyuu]

@Pine: I saw "Pine" "Mogri" "Pine" in the quotes and figured your second post had nothing to do with Techno. My apologies. Your first was posted prior to the entire situation, and I wasn't even looking there. Amending my scumlist, as I can't read.

I do still remember several of your posts sticking out to me while I was reading but I can't remember which ones or why, so you get a reread tomorrow too.

Would be willing to lynch:
inte
NS
BK201 (pending reread)
Pine (pending reread)

NOW it's time for sleep.

[Pine]

It's been the end of the semester. You'll note that there was a significant dip in my site-wide posting habits around the end of April that has recovered steadily through May, and that in the last week or so, I'm extremely active once again. It's been mostly consistent with this thread.

Give me some good reasons not to immediately label anything coming out of you as misinformation. I had Blonde Doctor as a pretty heavy scumread.

[inte]

Alright fine. I'll play along.

It's scummy to say "both of these people need to be lynched" because of at least these reasons (there may be more):

1. It doesn't take into account what either of them will flip. If one of them flips scum, it may prove the other is town, or vice versa.
2. It backhandedly encourages people to subconsciously connect both players together, whether or not they are aligned with each other.
3. It allows lurking scum to "hide behind" both of the named players, and directs too much discussion to the pair, and away from others.

Now you please play along too. Explain why it's not a scumtell.

"Right fucking now."

1) its possible that either alignment wont matter
2) i don't
3) true, but scum can just sheep reads all game to the same effect

[inte]

there so much that bothers me about Kairyuu

like;

- most of his posts have been filler that doesn't really get a point across
- he obviously didn't read BBmollas explanation of the Amished tell quite well enough, the two stipulations are: they've never heard of the amished and its not part of their play style. he had to link 11 games to "disprove" the tell, rather than provide the 2 examples where it probably would of been sufficient enough to prove that it was part of his play. smells like overreaction to the fullest
- he didn't link to the posts with the ad hominem in them as i requested, but rather supplied sourceless quotes

yeah, VOTE: Kairyuu

[noraaa]

inte that was scummy as fuck, and "most of his posts have been filler that doesn't really get a point across"

ARE YOU. FUCKING. KIDDING. ME.




Pine- I can honestly see where you might see that about Blondie, but I saw.. myself, in my first game. Gung ho, with little experience logicking and mechanicking, and tunnelling strong on my first read (which was Hiraki.. two townies who spent pages bitching at each other for no good end). Blondie even said, when asked by myself, that they were super new to the game. So that should be, in my mind, sufficient enough to answer the "scum or newb" question. And then Kairyuu came in with all sorts of detailed, well-thought out cases. That won him a pretty decent town slot in my mind, which on occasion I second guess (what if he's just good at hiding his scumminess) because honestly I second guess EVERYTHING. (irl too, and it sucks)

[crypto]

@crypto: Could you please explain how anything Techno posted in his defense was "an abundance of evidence that he was town?" I understand that you disagreed with the wagon, but I fail to see how what he did qualified as what you claim.

no.

Your preemptive apology for lynching townies is null at best.

your resume – posting walls of text, boring me to death, leading the single most idiotic and devastating wagon this game has yet seen – is uninspiring at best.

[noraaa]

if my posting is sporadic or weird over the next 12-36 hours I am sorry. I'm not in a good state of mind atm.

[inte]

inte that was scummy as fuck, and "most of his posts have been filler that doesn't really get a point across"

ARE YOU. FUCKING. KIDDING. ME.




Pine- I can honestly see where you might see that about Blondie, but I saw.. myself, in my first game. Gung ho, with little experience logicking and mechanicking, and tunnelling strong on my first read (which was Hiraki.. two townies who spent pages bitching at each other for no good end). Blondie even said, when asked by myself, that they were super new to the game. So that should be, in my mind, sufficient enough to answer the "scum or newb" question. And then Kairyuu came in with all sorts of detailed, well-thought out cases. That won him a pretty decent town slot in my mind, which on occasion I second guess (what if he's just good at hiding his scumminess) because honestly I second guess EVERYTHING. (irl too, and it sucks)

all i see are WORDSWORDSWORDS, but when i don't finish the post with at least a main idea, i've been duped

[UberNinja]

wow hiraki i can't believe you let him do that to you

you know me so well

[crypto]

yeah i considered pulling a cobalt but the urge to retain a modicum of dignity got the better of me

[Matias]

For the record, I believe Kairyuu has completely redeemed Blonde's spot.

I'm not sure if noraaa had meta on Blonde before she made that statement about Blonde just being noobish, I'm not sure if Blonde has been around for that long

[petapan]

just accidentally closed my browser window because i'm a big huge idiot

mogri case tomorrow

[noraaa]

For the record, I believe Kairyuu has completely redeemed Blonde's spot.

I'm not sure if noraaa had meta on Blonde before she made that statement about Blonde just being noobish, I'm not sure if Blonde has been around for that long

No the way Blondie was acting toward you just reminded me hardcore of how I acted in my first game. So I asked about how experienced they were and they responded embarrassedly, and it all just felt like overzealous and underskilled.

[UberNinja]

yeah i considered pulling a cobalt but the urge to retain a modicum of dignity got the better of me

damn you

[UberNinja]

For the record, I believe Kairyuu has completely redeemed Blonde's spot.

I'm not sure if noraaa had meta on Blonde before she made that statement about Blonde just being noobish, I'm not sure if Blonde has been around for that long

why are you recording this? do you feel the need to be accountable to us for your reads changing?

[UberNinja]

just accidentally closed my browser window because i'm a big huge idiot

mogri case tomorrow

see post 375 and go sit in a corner with psyche

[noraaa]

For the record, I believe Kairyuu has completely redeemed Blonde's spot.

I'm not sure if noraaa had meta on Blonde before she made that statement about Blonde just being noobish, I'm not sure if Blonde has been around for that long

why are you recording this? do you feel the need to be accountable to us for your reads changing?

I personally thought he was just adding to the conversation that was quite currently going on about that very subject...

[crypto]

okay, i just put uberninja in timeout. you're not allowed to champion d2 lynches on obvious town players and then unleash whirlwinds of snark.

[inte]

when you guys call someone out on reaction fishing, it fucks the purpose