The game of the year: town won!

[Chevre]

I actually did see merit in Rhinox's plan. It was certainly better than lynching someone without having a chance to post at all, even if it is chesskid3.

[Chevre]

What do you mean? didn't he just go down the playerlist and divide it into 5 groups of 10?

[Chevre]

If we were to implement a plan of this sort, who do you suggest divides and why?

[Chevre]

PAGE 1

sup

I think this is the shadiest first post ever. If I got the first post, I would either say "first" or make a very strong random vote. This screams to me, "hey guis what are we doing, because I'll just mindlessly follow"

redFF or petapan seem like better policy lynches if we're going to play that game.

VOTE: redFF

I quoted this pending flip, but now I think it's null. If Hoopla was a Mime, she'd want chesskid3 lynched.

I agree. We have 5 lynches today.
at least 3 of them should be towards policy lynches.

vote: chesskid

I think ANY policy lynches is an outrageous idea.

Alright, lets use the first two lynches to policy lynch. I'll switch to chesskid if we get redFF afterwards.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: chesskid

Ditto what I said above to this.

Out of the two, I would much rather lynch redFF based on what I have seen of each of their play so far.

@ theamatuer: *shudder* ... you just made me afraid to vote for anyone. congratulations.

UN's hesitancy is not very town-sounding, even if this is just a joke.

Keep discussion light until the game actually begins. If someone is super confident someone else is scum, maybe we could let them use a lynch and be put to the test.

Keep discussion light?

Even though chesskid3 is antitown I think the quickwagon was shady; we do have five weeks, after all.
As I have already said, I think Rhinox's idea is a good approach to this, even if it's apparently not the most "fun."

[Chevre]

PAGE 2

k. I've just played a few mm games with him and haven't had any trouble so I just wanted to know why people didn't like him.

Anyway let's keep this going.

VOTE: The Mini Librarian

Wait, so you don't know why people dislike him, in fact you never had any trouble with him, yet you want to quicklynch him before he gets a chance to post? Sounds pretty opportunistic to me.

This is a fabulous point.

Given IceGuy's posts on this page, I'm wondering if he is a Mime as well, or possibly, scum with information that the Mime role exists.

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PAGE 3

There are going to be lurkers. If we're looking in a group of 50, its easy to hide. In a group of 10, call out lurkers in that group. Of the other 40, I don't care if half of them aren't saying much when its not their group. They'll get their licks when their group is up.

If we were to utilize the plan, I think we could also benefit from seeing who lurks when their group is not under scrutiny but then comes out of the woodwork when they are up for lynch.

IceGuy is looking more obvimime with every post. I think we should leave him alone at this point; if he is a mime, and we don't lynch him, Mimes can't win, because anti-town factions have no motivation to kill him. Unless of course, Mimes have a kill themselves that they can use to fix situations like this.

[Chevre]

So now we have to wonder or not the hasty beginning of the game lead to an unorganized Mime faction which made themselves horrendously obvious, or if we were just unlucky. Some people were hesitant to have chesskid3 as the first policy lynch, but along those lines, I don't see Captain Corporal and AGar as mimes who introduced the idea of chesskid3 lynch and just hoping everybody would latch on.

It is quite likely that at least one mime is on that lynch, but I definitely think there are mimes who haven't posted yet, or were intelligent enough to realize the implications of the flip.

[Chevre]

MattP: I agree that IceGuy would look scummy under normal circumstances, but with the existence of mimes he is looking pretty shady. I totally agree that he could be a mime which did not realize that mykonian would reveal the win condition of the mime faction, but I also wonder if he is acting this way because he knew of the mimes, or simply because it is, after all, a 50-player game.

There definitely needs to be a more thorough discussion on the "most likely mime" so that a vig can kill them. If I had to choose, I would say Milk is the player the most likely to be a mime.

[Chevre]

I was beginning to think that maybe we should just leave likely mimes alone, but seeing how they exit after one of them is removed from the game in a non-lynch way, I maintain that any potential vigilantes or other town-sided killers should kill the most likely mimes.

MattP is probably my #1 town read at this point and playing up NOT A MIMMEEE is silliness ex machina.

Could you elaborate on this? I kind of see it but I'm not sure he's my #1.

BBmolla's play is really icky but not really scummy, that's the worst kind. Still, I think Milk is the most likely mime.

Goodness, mykonian gives you guys FIVE RULES to read and there is still confusin? smh.

Vote: UberNinja

- His Page 1 posts plus his more recent posts are suspicious, and I'm not so into the whole "Milk is scum" thing. I think Johhog is more likely scum than mime too.

[Chevre]

This game is already hard enough to follow, gotta get rid of spammers. Posting is happening faster than I can read.

VOTE: redFF [/unvote]

Why would you complain about how hard the game is to follow, and then vote? I'd want to be as informed and as clear as possible before I'd make a commitment like that, especially on a wawgon that is looking as though it could head towards lynch.

idk i can see reasons for softclaiming like bbmolla did as town and scum but if i explain why i think a townie would do it it literally defeats the purpose

QFT.

Vote: redFF

Reasonless vote on a growing wagon? Yet another reason to vote UberNinja.

petapan: I don't think we can fully stop worryiing about mimes until a mime has been removed from this game in a method other than lynching.

MattP: You shouldn't be freaking out about nobody listening to you about TML. It only takes 10 people to lynch, so even a majority of people could've been listening to you and the lynch still would've gone through. I think you're trying to get town cred in a very illogical way.

[Chevre]

I must continuously reiterate that Milk is most likely to be mime and should be any potential vigilante's #1 target.

I think UberNinja is shadier than izak because Uber was very noncommiting on Page 1. But if someone could explain the izakthegoomba case I'd be happy to listen.

[Chevre]

I think the reaction to BBmolla was not right. As irrational as it was, his impulsive vote wasn't necessarily out of character. I think everyone was all, "OH MY GOD AN HONEST TO GOODNESS SCUMMY THING!!! WE DID IT!!!"

Kairyuu's initial post is so dumb. "Oh a fifty player game /in " "Ohmigoodness! Lot's of posts! lolnope" Kairyuu, read the whole thing and tell us your thoughts.

I think T-Bone's 11-player list is kind of weird, because he adds 3 people at the end that he "just likes" and then he's like "IF ANY OF THIS LIST IS ANTITOWN I WILL BE SHOCKED :O :O :O"

BBmolla's vote on redFF and Kairyuu's vote on izak are pactically the same thing.

MattS, could you explain why I was in your "potential voting block," and then removed from it?

On YYR.

He pushes the mini librarian lynch, calling him scummy when most people were on it for quicklynch fun. Scum try to fabricate reasons to be on fast moving wagons that townies jump on without a second thought.

The whole wagon was bad, and it probably contain some mimes. We should at least reach a consensus as to whether lynching the mimes is worth the effort or let them get killed in the night phases.

This is you talking about the Chesskid wagon right? I don't see why you think the chesskid wagon, purely a policy lynch(he hadn't even posted), is bad while you then jump on my policy wagon when I'd barely posted

The whole wagon was bad, and it probably contain some mimes. We should at least reach a consensus as to whether lynching the mimes is worth the effort or let them get killed in the night phases.

hahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahaha
it was a policy lynch

this guy next

vote:YYR

K

VOTE: redFF

Policy lynch. No need for explanation.

and say "no need for explanation".

What is the difference between chesskid's policy lynch wagon, which you called "bad", and my policy lynch wagon, which you jumped on and said "no reasons needed"?

This sort of contradiction is very scummy, he knew(or thought at the time) that chesskid would flip town, so he stayed off that wagon at the time. Also, he didn't touch the wagon, or even oppose it, before ck was lynched, but then as soon as CK was lynched, YYR called the wagon bad. Seems very opportunistic.

Oh and his vote for me and hop on my policy wagon came as soon as I voted him.

vote:YYR

I agree with this a lot. I think YYR has been kind of fishy all the ding dong day.

peta there must be some errors with your post-count list, because I'm not on it at all, lol. Anyway, post count is a horrible way to measure content.

We need revelation on the lynchedness of izakthegoomba.

Also, I would like to note that lynching UberNinja has been an idea which has been generally agreed with but keeps getting the "nah let's get XXXXX first" treatment. Maybe we should go with something a lot of us actually agree with before of fighting over other issues.

[Chevre]

Deary me, 17 pages since I last posted? I shan't have a real life while I'm in this game!

So old news, but with the mimes leaving Milk and UberNinja are obvscum. What do we do with Kairyuu?

This game has a huge problem with cockiness. Players declaring other players a faction left and right, late players refusing to read the multitude of pages. I understand this is a different experience but you shouldn't sacrifice good playing strategies for that.

I CONTINUOUSLY forget that Elmo is in this game, only to recall him when people vote him. Therefore, he must be doing some shady stuff yet maintain a under-the-radar presence. I need to see what he has posted later.

I think Rhinox's list of "fluff" on BBmolla in post 718 is very suspicious; some of those, like the uberninja vote, and the question to the mod (given BBmolla's proliferance). Additionally, he specifically asks that only BBmolla looks at it, which is kind of like saying "THIS IS FALLACIOUS SO DON'T LOOOK"

Oh look, a wagon I can jump on.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: T-bone

I still want UberNinja lynched. If this fails, I'm hopping back.

Jumping on a wagon instead of pushing one on someone he thinks is scum.

This is a spectacular point.

Skimmed everything since last night. Going to come right out and say that this game is moving too quickly for me to be willing to commit to anything more than reactive play (responding pretty much only to people who jump out at me as scummy or mention me in some way during skim sessions, and commenting on what I feel is pertinent while I'm actually following) until it slows down. Potentially more on days I don't work (Sunday-Tuesday). Not that I didn't expect this, but yeah.

@Chevre:

Kairyuu's initial post is so dumb. "Oh a fifty player game /in " "Ohmigoodness! Lot's of posts! lolnope" Kairyuu, read the whole thing and tell us your thoughts.

Nope.avi

Or, to elaborate a bit more, we got 18 pages over the course of about 8 hours. The likelihood that there was enough pertinent information in those pages to warrant reading them, especially right now, is approximately 0%. I can say WITH CERTAINTY that the VAST majority of it consists of spam and mindless bandwagoning. There is literally no other way that 2 people could have been lynched in that period of time.


On a final note, anyone using activity to justify literally anything in this game is chasing shadows.

BBmolla's vote on redFF and Kairyuu's vote on izak are pactically the same thing.

Nope.avi

But you probably know that already.

I still feel you should read the pages in preparation for future days where they may have value.

And yes, I generalized hastily there. I guess a little bit of the general reek of disillusioned swagger emitting from this game got to me.

Thinking about it, isn't their some sort of ploy Kairyuu can use to confirm his angelfriends at a later date? Like he can post the answer to a question in the thread and then give them the question, so that when he dies they can post the question and they will be confirmed as an angelfriend?

Agree with Luffy's 940 about the Moneybags wagon being the oddest of them all. I have little idea as to where it came from or why it even happened. :/

I feel like Muffin's hammer on Money could be scum trying to eliminate a member from another faction.

Ellibereth: do you still have intentions of attempting to daykill Trevor?

The Captain Corporal wagon confuses me as I see little rationale for it.

Final note: I am suspicious of UberNinja, Mastermind of Sin, Ellibereth, Muffin Wednesday, YYR, and Milk.

[Chevre]

I guess I can understand not wanting to read, but can someone provide a legit reason for

placing a vote

without having any sense of an understanding of what's going on? NUMEROUS times I have seen someone say, "oh totally not caught up, but lolvote this guy," and I fail to see the logic in that.

I agree with TeChNoWC's case on SpyreX in 1018, except for the part about OMGUSing Milk. Milk has been quite obviously suspicious all game, and except for when mimes were knowledgeably in play, there really hasn't been a bad time to vote Milk.

Page 42 is a treasure trove of fun, by the way:

However, TBone is activate trying to be on every major lynchewagon he was here for

I don't think someone would actively try to do this, seeing how eager the players in this game are to analyze vote counts.

Vote: SpyreX

FOS: Everyone not voting SpyreX

VOTE: SpyreX

These are two posts apart, and I feel it is the shadiest thing ever.

VOTE: T-bone

On the other extreme, I feel this is a very town thing to do.

In a game this large, most/all of the big wagons will have scum pushing them.

Look at some of the smaller wagons e.g Milk/uberninja. If you're town you should jump on a slower forming wagon because all the fast forming wagons will inevitably be scum led.

As a proponent of both of these wagons, QFT. Like I said earlier, UN has been a suspect all day yet his wagon has been relatively small and the one peak it did have was small and easily deterred by a few "content-filled" posts form UN.

I think a lot of people are mistaking "I hate that there are 50 people in this game and I can't keep track of anything and until I can idgaf" with "I'm careless scum"

I've been a major proponent of "please reread what you've missed," but I don't think I've ever said this. And I shouldn't; I agree with you wholeheartedly. Of course players, both scum and town alike, are going to be deterred by the bulk of reading, but the most pro-town thing to do is read it all. In this sort of game, we need all the information we can get.

Suspect thoughts:
- I have in no way changed my opinion on UberNinja due to his spurt of content. However, I feel there are more likely suspects.

Unvote

.
- Milk is still very suspicious.
- Muffin Wednesday, SpyreX, and YYR are shady, but to a much lesser extent.
- However, Elmo has captured my attention. Something about his activity seems scummy. He began with inconsequential posts that I failed to remember in reading, then right after Fritzler says everyone not voting SpyreX is scum, he votes SpyreX. Finally, his "come at me bro" post just reeks of a scummy ploy.

Vote: Elmo TeH AzN

- I think the Captain Corporal random is still lolrandom, but I'm a bit intrigued by the fact that he did nothing but point out those who had even less posts than him when he actually noted the wagon.
- I still see little reasoning behind a T-bone lynch, and when I look at the wagon I am not surprised because I am suspicious or unsure of those voting him.

[Chevre]

I agree with MattP's suspicions of funkybike1 in 1092.

- However, Elmo has captured my attention. Something about his activity seems scummy. He began with inconsequential posts that I failed to remember in reading, then right after Fritzler says everyone not voting SpyreX is scum, he votes SpyreX. Finally, his "come at me bro" post just reeks of a scummy ploy. Vote: Elmo TeH AzN

No fucking shit. It was meant to get your attention.
*Throws hands in air*
This isn't rocket science. Hell it's not that I'm not interested in this game it's we had 50 fucking people and were down to 42. YOU EXPECT TO HAVE GOOD SCUM READS THIS FAR IN?!

I'll fucking vote myself if town nails scum out of 42 people.

Look at the first 2 lynches. What were they?

Okay. You have my attention. Now why did you want it?
That Negative Nancy mentality isn't going to help additionally.
And that italicized line: it doesn't sound like something a town-sided player would say.

you could say the same about me to an extent, hell even this very vote, but i'll be damned if it doesn't apply to t-bone even more.

I don't get why this had to be in a spoiler. In fact, I'm darn tired of the use of spoilers in this game AT ALL.

Zdenek: I also got the feeling kondi was playing in this game as an alt and just forgot to switch accounts.

[Chevre]

Additionally, T-Bone's rebuttal to Luffy makes a good point, but they are not the only perpetrators; about a kajillion players in this game have hopped on wagons with little to no reason.

[Chevre]

Sorry I haven't posted yet guys!

Back on Day 1: The end of 1175, or T-Bone's points about Luffy, make a lot of sense. This continues in 1176. Actually, page 48 is a whole lot of T-Bone making sense.

Okay. You have my attention. Now why did you want it?
That Negative Nancy mentality isn't going to help additionally.
And that italicized line: it doesn't sound like something a town-sided player would say.

So you can get my wagon rolling. At this fucking point it's all mudslinging back and forth this day needs to end

Elmo TeH AzN:

so let me get this straight: You want to be lynched, simply so this day can end and a new day can begin? I'm confused.

redFF:

I understand kondi2424 has a reputation elsewhere on the site, but given our ineffectiveness so far we cannot lynch someone because of that alone.

I'm not sure how to respond to the imaginality kill. She only 2/10s of the way through her reads, I don't know if that indicates anything at all.

I never ever got the T-Bone wagon. On Day 2 it seemed like a lot of the votes were fueled by his spat with Amrun, but that didn't really seem indicative of alignment. SpyreX's complete 180 in 1314 is very fishy though.

VOTE: Hoopla for this:

What...

Only one death? Strange.

You know I'm not a newbie, right? I kinda know that tell already.

If you know that it's a tell, then you know it's likely to garner some attention. Obviously, 1 kill in a 50-player game is strange. Why did you make that post, Hoopla?

The lyncher scare on pages 55 and 56 is so strange. I can say I wouldn't fall for it, but I wasn't there so I'll never know. I feel as though there is some sort of analysis begging to be done on those posts. On one readthrough I feel like I found a few things:

Did anyone actually FOS T-bone? People were just voting him because they thought it was inevitable.

I thought T-bone was scum. I am a VT.

MattP says "I am a VT" instead of "I was a VT." In retrospect that seems really minor, but it jumped out to me, so I'd thought I'd note it.

Oh god this is turning out bad.

I was trolling. Don't claim.

FUCK YEA. I knew it. You were role fishing too much. "Oh, so who was really scum?" "What other third parties were out there".

I almost outed myself as scum too.

However, as Trevor has already noted, these posts reek of "YES! I'm scum who was not fooled by kondi's tricks!"

Hoopla's setup speculation in 1456 is marvelous and I'm not sure why it is getting a lot of hate. I mean I understand that setup discussion is generally discouraged, but this is something that has never been done before. Hoopla's perspective is a good start, even though it could be completely and totally off.

Page 59. Trollie votes UN, but the moment UN defends theirself, he hops off. UN was under much scrutiny Day 1; it could be that Trollie was looking for a safe place to put his vote but the lack of support + UN's defense scared him away.

Perhaps players that have tried to keep their hands clean (not be on any mislynches) should be ISOd. There are about ten of them.

As someone who has not been on any mislynch wagon, I don't know what I think about this. My immediate reaction was that this was the complete opposite of the truth: In my opinion, all of the lynches so far (except maybe The Mini-Librarian's) have made little sense. However, I guess there are really strange players, such as Nobody Special, who haven't been on a lynch yet. I would conclude by saying this a good venture; one I may pursue if it get the time. Obviously someone else would have to do me.

Elmo TeH AzN

explain your vote in 1524.

I've been thinking about Callforjudgment's votecounts ever since they've started. At first I thought he looked town because of them and the effort he put in to do them, but then he revealed that there was a bet involved or something. Anyway, he's obligated to do them, so I think it's a null tell.

I'd be up for policy lynching MoS because he is intentionally playing in a way that makes him impossible to read, and he is doing nothing,

QFT.

luffy's town. so that's 1 or 2 ot of amrun, elmo, and peregrine who are scum

bank on it

If you think Luffy's town...why are you not looking at the Luffy wagon for scum?

Suspicions:
I will vote Luffy. I say "will" because SpyreX recently posted and if I vote he'll vote and I won't get a chance to say why I think this is a good wagon.
Nobody Special has been really fishy. He hasn't been on many wagons at all, and he posts rarely even though I know he's more active than that.

Something needs to be done with MoS.

He's choosing not to make any content at all, and I feel he's scum who is easily heading towards a win and is going to rationalize this as "scum's best strategy was to lurk herp derp" I think this would make a nice target for Elli's daykill that she supposedly has.
Don't see merit in lynching PeregrineV or LowMan ATM.
UberNinja, Elmo TeH AzN, kondi2424, YYR, and Milk are still worthwile ventures but I'd rather see what Luffy flips.
I'm a little bit suspicious of Amrun, funkybike1, SpyreX, TheTrollie, and Hoopla.

Luffy case and vote coming soon!

[Chevre]

THIS. So much this. Can the 'One-Line Post Peanut Gallery' stop posting or perhaps...and bare with me, this is a crazy idea...stop posting or GASP scumhunt. Either or would be fine.

OMG…. *GASP*.

How do you prefer people should scumhunt, sir? By taking random.org, generating random numbers, and then blocking them? Excellent technique, I must say.

This post seems like useless snark directed towards T-Bone. One-line posting ISN'T useful. And that point, I could see reasoning for thinking everyone in his town voting block was town, and some of those reasons still persist.

Oh look, a wagon I can jump on.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: T-bone

I still want UberNinja lynched. If this fails, I'm hopping back.

Later on, Luffy calls out T-Bone for sporadically jumping on wagons. Also: I did not see Luffy ever rationalize his initial vote for UberNinja.

i'm saying what the oracle would say were she here: you need to make up your damn mind

what you are saying is inconsistent and thus puts you on *my* witch burning list

Unvote; Vote: Luffy

This is the conversation:

Uber: Blah blah blah. People shouldn't be justifying their votes Day1. More scummy stuff. Whatever.
Me: *votes*
T-bone: *votes Uber out of nowhere*
T-bone: Lalala. Let me throw these weird random.org blocks out there.
Me: o.O *votes T*
Uber: Oh lookie! He's voting the person who was voting with him against me! He must be scum!

You're suggesting that because T-bone was also agreeing with me on your vote, that I should see him as innocent? When he didn't justify his vote at all? Nor any of his lists? No, the enemy of my enemy is

not

my friend. You are not both mutually scummy. It's independent cases.

Where is my inconsistency? For saying both of you are scummy?

More bringing up the "random" voting blocks.

Techno, thoughts on Milk please. And why you decided to first say that moneybags is scummy, then say that you think Milk is more scummy, but still end up voting money.

This is a very random out of the blue request. Luffy had not mentioned Milk AT ALL before this post.

Think about it this way; is there any situation where SpyreX is town and T-Bone is scum?

Why, I can think of so many:

1) Spy and T-bone are Neighbors, and T-bone has "convinced" Spy that he is town.
2) Spy has confused a Neighborhood and a Mason group, and thinks that in the former, all people are guaranteed to be town.
3) T-bone hacked Spy's account.
4) Spy is a townie who genuinely believes that T-bone is town, when he is truly not.
5) Spy is just doing this so he can get an alternative lynch in other than T-bone.
6) Spy was first town, then he got day-culted, and is now under T-bone's control.
7) Spy is trolling us.

Yea, I think I'll stop trying now But some of those make sense!

Note how eager Luffy is to rationalize this here...

What...

Only one death? Strange.

One scum team might have withheld so it will look like that we don't have multiscum, or the different scum groups cannot kill on the same nights (ex, one is on even days, the other on odd days). I am not ready to believe that we have just one big huge scum group yet.

...but he can't even consider the possibility of one scumteam!

alternative: scumteam too slow to send kill
thoughts?

Agree with kondi. Not a whole scumteam (unless they have shit luck or something). Maybe a SK or something.

And this too. It seems like he agrees with every reason against there being one scumteam. As someone said, it's unlikely that NO ONE was on within the 24-hour time period.

Oh god this is turning out bad.

I was trolling. Don't claim.

FUCK YEA. I knew it. You were role fishing too much. "Oh, so who was really scum?" "What other third parties were out there".

I almost outed myself as scum too.

FUCK YEA HE DIDNT CATCH ME THOUGH - Luffy

I know, I'm too smart

Oh, FFS.

Someone deserves rope for that...

And is lucky I'm not a role with a kill ability.

VOTE: Kondi2424

Luffy came out as bad in this gambit, not kondi.

Oh yea, totally bad. I almost claimed scum

The above posts are all, as I said in my previous post, "YAY I'M SCUM WHO DIDN'T FALL FOR THIS GAMBIT. HAHA" This celebration of sorts doesn't look town-motivated at all.

Oh cool. I'll be hiding in a corner from now on. Right down to your left if you need me. Which everyone should prob forget about me. Like, forget I'm playing for the next few game days.

And this looks like scum who realizes they were horribly obviously advocating a lynch they knew was a mislynch, and doesn't want to be under scrutiny.

ISOs of random people, from my little hiding corner:

Fritz - null leaning towards scummy
Trollie - scummy
manho- townie
Zdenek- scummy. Too much snipping from the sidelines and fence-sitting.
Milk- scummy. Too much deflection.
funkybike- null leaning towards scummy out of too much nullness
syndrome- swingy/null. Can go both ways really.
Chronopie- leaning towards scum. Seems to have too much fake contribution.
Elmo- swingy
amatuer- leaning towards town
Chevre- null leaning towards town. Has some tl:dr -__-
dramonic- 3 posts, two are random votes, and one is asking about game mechanics. Screams scum. But then again, too few posts to actually judge.
sykedoc- Null leaning towards town.
NS- Null

Most are pretty much the combo of gut and skimming of ISO.

Luffy talks of T-Bone making "random" blocks, when he randomly ISOs a smattering of people, and doesn't really provide much information on them. No quotes or anything. :/ Plus why ISO me and then say my posts are too long?

Hey, can someone who is bored do ISO Zdenek, Trollie, and Chronopie, and give thoughts please? I think all 3 can fit the flying under radar scum profile.

He then posts this, which given his lack of clarity or reasoning on his reads in the previous random ISO, looks like an attempt to get someone to form suspiicions on these three and be like "OH! I totally saw that on my readthrough. Vote soandso"

This is preposterous. Can I please get a decent argument for my suspicion? I can't even grasp why I'm being wagoned. Like, at all. I can't defend against air. You're giving me nothing to work with, and I'm suppose to look townish? The only person who actually gave me something was Techno, and I answered all of his accusations, which turned out pretty horrible, and I think he sensed that literarly >90% of them were trolololsucky.

Whatever. Lynch me. But please do lynch Syprex after. Because I'm done with his bs. "Oh, let me just throw out baseless reads out there. Call T-bone town. Call Luffy scummy. Call UN scummy. Amrun scummy. And the funny thing, is no one is catching on!"

Oh wait. Nvm.

Try

lynching me.

But really, I'm not getting lynched. No really, it won't happen. Try it. You'll fail

^

Bleh. Luffy is the one person on that wagon I'm unsure of because I had them as town before. That Lowman vote was awful though.

Please ISO Lowman and tell me how he didn't manage to go from null to scummy in seconds:

He came on, and jumped on the T-bone wagon >>> "T-bone is at L-2 I believe after my vote. Let's see more votes people." Pretty hard pushing there. >>> Jumped on Kondi for the gambit, saying "Someone deserves rope for that", and if he was vig, he would kill him >>> Retracts, saying he overreacted, and jumps on Red, saying "And based on my own past experience with him, I'm fine with a redFF PL even if he's town. In a game this big we can still afford plenty of VT mislynches"

Rope, please.

Matt,

Luffy is the kind of lynch that if I cant get it through RIGHT NOW its going to take the moons aligning for it to happen again. Work with me and we can make something beautiful. UN, Amrun, Kondi? Dead.

I'm right about this one we can start running roughshod and forge a masterpiece through fire and flames.

Kondi is on drugs and needs to go. I'd say hes more likely t o be town than luffy but work with me it doesnt matter. Theyre all deaddd

Do you not see that (a) you don't have the momentum to lynch me and (b) you have shitty reasons for pushing my lynch (if you have reasons at all, which I must have missed somewhere).

I'm not getting lynched. Live with it. And if it makes you feel any better, you would've lynched a townie anyways.

Also, don't deceive yourself into thinking that you ever gained the spark to get a lynch on me. You never did, and you never will as long as you keep up with your bad reasoning (not that I blame you; I really don't have a lot to condemn me, so you have to work extra hard to come up with the bad reasoning).

If you still want to push the lynch, then go ahead and rally the troops. I'm going to put you on ignore till you stop the bs. Then maybe you can refocus your attention on actually scumhunting; of course, assuming you are town. Which is becoming more and more less likely.

These posts read like the speech of a villain at the end of movie, who is caught, and frustrated, but is like all "you'll never catch me!" There is a TV Trope for what I'm saying, I'm sure, but I don't know what it is off the top of my head. Anyway, he is super smarmy and a big part of his defense as to why he shouldn't be lynched is because it isn't possible. What???

I realize that this is a lot of quotes, but I wanted to rationalize why I was voting Luffy.

Vote: Luffy

Elmo:

But if you died...then you wouldn't be around for day 2...Explain your motivations in a more specific way. Also, you were purposefully sheeping Amrun?

[Chevre]

I did feel like the case was very rushed and ramshackle; maybe ISOing him and quoting the scummy parts was not the best manner of presenting my case. But I still feel he is scummy. Let me try again:

A) He accuses T-Bone of baseless votes and votehopping, yet does it himself. He doesn't provide any reasoning as to why he is voting UberNinja, he just does. And then he hops back and forth between T-Bone and UberNinja. T-Bone and Luffy are not the only ones doing this, that is for sure, but Luffy is being hypocritical when he calls out another person. Even still, he is not the only person doing this, but this is not the only reason I am voting him.
B) He calls out T-Bone's lists as random, especially the town voting block. However, they don't appear that random to me; At that time, I could see reasoning for why everyone in his block could be considered town (Amrun and SpyreX make less sense now).
C) Luffy's posts immediately following the revelation that the lynchers are not real feel like scum celebrating. I don't think town would react that way.
D) 1429. With the combination of his reaction the lynchers and the T-Bone flip, this looks like scum wanting to avoid scrutiny for his glaring fumbles.
E) His posts when his bandwagon is beginning. Most of it is "you simply can't lynch me," which is a very odd position to take. I don't get how town could be so confident that they aren't going to be lynched.

I don't feel the need to mention that both town and scum could do everything Luffy did. That's obvious. In fact, 4 townies have been lynched, which means that everything they were scummy for could be done by a town-sided player. I'm not saying that everything is 100% certain; however, I feel that Luffy's play has been very scummy.

And I stated that I didn't want to just vote him without explaining myself. There really wasn't a true case, but I felt like the stuff was out there to produce one, and it is. So I made it.

[Chevre]

Peregrine, I made a case on Luffy because I felt like the material was there but it hadn't been formally collected into a "case." While the idea of vote-count analysis has been floating around for a while, Ellibereth made a post that really pushed for it following the Luffy lynch. I wasn't really sure of it, and I am still not sure of its merits given the fact that these wagons consist of less than a fourth or even fifth of the players.

I have not posted since the lynch because I am personally stuck. Of course I want to look at my multitude of suspects more in-depth and potentially pick one to vote, but I've noticed two flaws with the current game that concern me:

1) Lurkers are simply going to continue to lurk, and there is very little we can do about it. Seriously. We have players who pop in every few days or so and say, "oh 20 pages? Not reading trololol" . Even worse, this waste of a post is sometimes accompanied by a vote, which is ridiculous considering they have NO OPINION on the game whatsoever. In normal games there would be conventions to remedy this issue, but these solutions are out the window. First of all, prods are only dished out weekly, which means that a person posting once or twice per week sneaks by these prods. Would it be inappropriate to ask mykonian to prod more frequently? Second, with each page that fills up, it will become increasingly hard to find a player who would replace into this game. However, I think this is silly in the first place because we don't really have players flaking, we have players that simply do not have the motivation, time, or interest to read the game and post thoughts. I'm not sure there is a solution for this, but it leads to my third point: in a typical game, lurkers can be pressured to post via bandwagons. However, that doesn't really work in this game. When Captain Corporal was bandwagoned, he did not post his thoughts about the game, he instead pointed out other lurkers to target instead of him. Luffy's main reason as to why he shouldn't be lynched is because he COULDN'T be lynched because he would never attain enough votes. This was refuted, but it shows that players aren't going to respond to bandwagon pressure the same way they would in a normal game. I'm not sure there is a solution for this either, so we need to do something with prods.

2) There is an outrageous amount of deal-making going on. "Lynch X and then we'll lynch Y" has been all too common in this game, and I think it is ludicrous, not only because it requires dealmakers lay off their #1 suspect, but because I don't recall a single deal so far coming to fruition. I don't know if it's a more colloquial way to convince people the person your voting is more suspicious than their suspect, but I don't like it any case. We should utilize detailed cases to convince people to vote for someone not "vote with me I'll vote with you" nonsense.

Tomorrow I plan on looking into my other suspects further. One I will be focusing a lot of attention on is Mastermind of Sin, as he is the #1 culprit of prod-dodging no-content lurking. I want to hear suggestions as to what we do with him if a request for more frequent prods is deemed inappropriate or denied.

[Chevre]

@Chevre- Then, think about getting a scum role in a 50 player game. How much do you post to get by?

If you signed up for the game

and got a VT role

and really didn't want to play anyway

, how much do you post?
I think we should lynch from those areas.

MoS may be a good candidate, but what do you think of any of the current wagons?

The deal-making is not real, and it's between all of 3 people, and they are still accountable for any votes they make.

It's hard to ask questions about 50-player games when this is the first one. We have no idea how mafia are playing because one hasn't died yet.
As for the second part...well the bolded part is problem isn't it? People signed up who didn't want to play? Of course they are going to post very little, if any at all; people who don't want to play should be replaced.

AAAAND

Chevre comes out of hiding to post RIGHT AFTER there are two votes on him

WOOSH

Vote: Chevre

@ Spyrex: Come with me if you want to live

A) how was I hiding?
B) Can I not defend myself against votes I don't feel I deserve?

yep...and now my vote on chevre feels very good. note the descriptive nature of that last post which is unlikely to help us find scum. Total defense mode after a second vote is dropped on him.

So...being descriptive is bad? Sounds more like it's more words than you wanted to read. I feel that I addressed the points I wanted to address in a good way, and I'm not sure how this could be scummy. As I said above with UberNinja, am I not allowed to defend myself? Plus, I promised content today which I am about to provide.

halfway the game muffin wednesday went to play as kondi. Further

I intend to have no replacements in this game, for the simple reason that a game of this size can cope with V/LA's

...
Excuse me for disagreeing with the moderator, but I think the bolded part is ludicrous. People aren't saying, "Oh, I won't have access for a week! V/LA!" It's "Oh, prod dodge, not reading lol." I hope the balance of this game is skewed towards town, because if inactive people cannot be replaced in any way at all we have an uphill battle.

(In short; his recent play hasn't been great, and checking the ISO showed me a whole lot of posts I didn't remember he made that are even worse. And it looks sort-of like he was trying to excuse them by pretending they didn't exist and hoping nobody would check; I honestly thought his first post here was just a few days ago.)

I agree that I probably did not deal with my case on Luffy in the correct way, but otherwise I see no problems with my recent play. Additionally, I think its sketchy to vote me simply because you do not remember my posts, especially when this game has had fifty players. In what ways am I trying to hide my pasts posts? I don't know why I would hide them when all of the reasons I have been voted have come recently.

I've decided to look at one of the most reliable voices we have: the vanilla townies who have been lynched. More specifically, their suspicions, because we know they are coming from a vanilla-townie perspective.

THE MINI-LIBRARIAN:
He provided no suspicions on anyone, except for when he thought IceGuy was a Mime, but that suspicion is moot.

MONEYBAGS:
In 183, he sheeps BBmolla and votes Milk. Not saying it's a good thing to sheep, but he saw merit in voting Milk.
In 218, he shows intentions of voting UberNinja at some point.
In 220, he urges people to vote Milk.
In 740, he states that his sheeping of BBMolla was just joking, but given 220 I think he was still happy with a Milk lynch. Additionally, he asks people to lynch redFF.
In 759, he notes that Hoopla looks like she is scum in this game, assuming based on interactions between the two in other games.
In 763, he further insinuates Hoopla is scum.

CAPTAIN CORPORAL:
Nothing of note, really. He first votes chesskid3, but this is one of the first votes in the game and is baseless. He switches to T-Bone, but we know T-Bone's alignment now.

T-BONE:
In 139, he votes The Mini-Librarian and is suspicious of izakthegoomba. Both are dead, so these are of little use.
In 443, T-Bone has his first list. In this one, the "die by lynch" group is UberNinja, izak, and petapan. Additionally, he says IceGuy needs to die by other means.
In 454, T-Bone quotes hs "die by lynch" group.
In 460, T-Bone reasons izak is scummy because of his approval of policy lynches. He also reasons that UberNinja is scummy because he is not scumhunting, and lists some examples. Finally, he reasons that petapan is scummy because his response to a vote on him was "don't post."
In 482, T-Bone tells MattP that he is a player who is not scumhunting. He also calls for a izakthegoomba lynch, followed by lynches of UberNinja and petapan.
In 518, he once again calls for a lynch of UberNinja, petapan, and izak.
In 541, he updates his lists. MattP is added to the "lynch" list (which formerly consisted of UN, peta, and izak). IceGuy is still in the vig pool for mimes, but another vig pool for so-called "useless" players has been formed. This list includes MattP, petapan, theamatuer, Moneybags, and SleepyKrew.
In 579, he takes izak off the lynch list since Kairyuu saved him, and says there are more immediate issues than UberNinja. He also appears to rationalize putting MattP and theamatuer in the uselessness list: theamatuer for spamming and MattP for spamming and blindly defending petapan.
In 661, he approves the Moneybags lynch, but given this post and 664 it appears to be more like advocacy for lurker lynches.
In 669, he points out players which have only made 1 posts (to review, that would have been Captain Corporal, Robotnick2, funkybike1, Ellibereth, and sykedoc). He also notes dramonic's two posts. After that, he notes players which he says are spamming or offering nothing: SleepyKrew, Moneybags, and MattP. He finishes with a vote on Moneybags.
In 678, he declares that Moneybags and Uberninja are posting little content and once again states that MattP is spamming.
In 723, he once again advocates a UberNinja lynch.
In 784, he votes UberNinja, but states that he would rather lynch Matt or peta.
In 788, he quotes UN's admitting to trolling and insinuates that this is scummy.
In 792, which is in reference to BBmolla's 790, he notes that he is voting UberNinja not because of policy but instead because he believes UN is scummy.
In 861, he once again advocates a UN lynch.
In 1175 and 1176, he switches his vote to Luffy, because he is not scumhunting and bandwagon-hopping.
In 1180, after an ISO of TheTrollie, he says that there is nothing redeeming about him and states that he is probably one of the scum on his wagon.
In 1183, he presents a full case on UN.
In 1234, he adds a new suspect; he thinks that Amrun should be lynched at some point.

LUFFY:
In 263, he finds TML's 165 scummy.
In 270, he votes TML.
In 363, he questions Johhog's 347.
In 370, he votes for UN and advocates their lynch.
In 571, he jumps on the T-Bone bandwagon, but still wants UberNinja lynched.
In 771, he wants Techno's thoughts on Milk, a player he has not yet mentioned.
In 787, he is still interested in interesting UberNinja...
In 805, he votes UberNinja.
In 940, he analyzes the Moneybags lynchwagon, and finds the votes of Techno, T-Bone, BBmolla, and Fritzler to be most suspect.
In 1022, he contemplates joining the CC wagon, but prefers a UN or T-bone lynch.
In 1025, he points out T-bones "opportunistic votes."
In 1045, he calls out Staeg for sheeping.
In 1070, he agrees with Chronopie's analysis of Elmo's ISO.
In 1444, he produces the results of his ISOs of random people. Fritz, Trollie, Zdenek, Milk, and Chronopie are all suspicious to him.
In 1553, he votes YYR, but he states he could be convinced to vote for SpyreX or PeregrineV.
In 1616, he states that 2/3 (I don't know if that's 2 out of 3 or "2 or 3") of YYR, SpyreX, and LowMan should be lynched, whereas Trevor, Trollie, and PergrineV should be dayvigged.
In 1617, he switches his vote to LowMan.

I understand that a heck of a lot of this is parroting, and that's the point; I just wanted to have a definite list out there for reference. I'm not saying I agree with them 100%, either. In fact, while 3 out of 4 of them would lynch UberNinja, I would not vote UN at this point because of something he said today. If you read him I'm sure you'll see it too.

However, 2 out of 4 suspected Milk (Moneybags, Luffy) and TheTrollie (T-Bone, Luffy) at one point, so they are good places to start.

[Chevre]

TechnoWC, that's exactly the reason they're more meaningful-they're more sincere. I don't disagree that we shouldn't look at who lynched them either.

Also, I forgot imaginality, which is probably the best of them to look at since he was NKed. I'll get to that tomorrow.

Since I'm halfway there, please allow me to claim and post thoughts on everyone before I am lynched.

[Chevre]

IMAGINALITY:
In 161, he votes TML. A very recurring theme.
In 641, he begins with his reads, the first 10 of them. First, he comments on the current wagons, which are Elmo and redFF, and says they are not necessarily bad. theamatuer, Amrun, funkybike1, sykedoc, and Moneybags all get minus signs in this group of ten, and he votes Moneybags.
In 879 are ten more reads; MoS, CC and Robotnick2 receive minus signs. He votes TechnoWC.
In 1082, he switches to Captain Corporal but also shows more interest in an Elmo lynch.

PEDIT: TheTrollie, I've been posting all game. In fact, I posted the whole Luffy thing right before these posts. And "we all know what the thread says?" tell that to MoS or dramonic. And I'm completely confused about what you are saying about the "descriptive" posts? I didn't have time to ISO anyone, so I only posted my thoughts about what I thought was creating so many mislynches. It wasn't summarizing, or clarifying, it was trying to get us to actually lynch scum. And I'm not saying don't listen to yourself. I'm saying that we can also listen to these people who have died because they are confirmed to be townies who had sincere townie motivations. And sure, it doesn't mean they were right, but the people who lynched them thinking they were scum weren't right either.

[Chevre]

33 pages in a day and a half. Fuck this shit, literally. The only reason I don't replace out right now is because I made a deal with myko and I don't think he's going to find that many people willing to replace. Seriously, I'm not going to reread a single post that I miss in this game cuz fuck you guys. Also, still V/LA.

This is Mastermind of Sin's first post. It shows how disinterested he is in the game, which is definitely not a scumtell. But he IS disinterested in the game, which is why we need replacements.

um. apparently this game started. yeah... 41 pages in. Not going to read all of that. will be following now.

I hear you bro. Mod sent the role pms and then started the game without even bothering to tell us he was starting it. Pretty lamesauce...

However, this post did catch my eye. It's been my experience that games start soon after the Role PMs are sent out? It almost reads like ticked off scum who were unable to talk before Day 1.

zoraster might be worse than MoS, as he actually he appears to be interested in the game, but is not doing anything. He votes PeregrineV in 1621 with no rationalization, and then asks SpyreX to join him, still without reasoning. Note that this is all within his meager 4 posts, which are all 3 lines or less (if you count spacing lines as "lines.").

Nobody Special's voting record isn't the greatest:
He first votes IceGuy pre-mime discovery, which isn't too bad. He actually gives reasons.
He then switches to UberNinja, with his only reasoning being that he wanted Trevor to "inexplicably die."
He then switches to Luffy, and even admits that he is sheeping SpyreX.
He then switches to LowMan, in what simply appears to be an attempt to spite UberNinja, who said LowMan wasn't getting lynched.
He switches back to Luffy, still with no reasoning. When Luffy is lynched, he switches to UberNinja, with no further reasoning provided.
He then switches to kondi2424, with no reasoning.
And now he switches to me, in what appears to be sheeping, because he didn't provide any reasons.

Nobody Special:

Why do you think me, kondi2424, and UberNinja are scum? If you have reasons, why did you not say these reasons in the posts in which you voted them?

PEDIT: UberNinja, it's all in my ISO, but my posts so far:
12 posts on May 16, the day the game started
1 post on May 18
1 post on May 19
2 posts on May 20
3 posts on May 25
1 post on May 27
3 posts (including this one) on May 28
And unlike some other people, I've gone back and read where there were gaps. So I have been posting throughout the duration of the game, just not as often as you do. I see merit in SpyreX's suggestion to not post one-liners, and have tried to stick to that.

[Chevre]

V/LA for a few days, as I'm switching internet providers.