The game of the year: town won!

[syndromeofadown]

k. I've just played a few mm games with him and haven't had any trouble so I just wanted to know why people didn't like him.

Anyway let's keep this going.

VOTE: The Mini Librarian

Wait, so you don't know why people dislike him, in fact you never had any trouble with him, yet you want to quicklynch him before he gets a chance to post? Sounds pretty opportunistic to me.

[syndromeofadown]

@soad: yep. If people as a whole don't like him I will bow down to the judgment of the masses.

Especially

in this game. Taking my one vote off isn't going to stop chess from getting lynched.

How is just going along with whatever wagon seems to have the most traction protown? Maybe it's chesskid, and maybe your vote didn't matter, but I just cannot fathom how anyone would support a policy lynch for a player they have no problem with, especially to the point of wanting to actually quicklynch him and not get a single post in at all.

[syndromeofadown]

Jahhog is probably a mime. Look at his comment on what roles are in the game and his position on the wagon. actually, mini librarian might be a mime too.

[syndromeofadown]

I am going to keep this Vote Count going like chesskid is dead. As such, I won't be counting AGar's vote.

FunkmasterFritz's Unofficial Vote Count

3 - the mini-librarian (syndromeofadown

(offended my sensibilities with username, Modkill pending)

, YYR, Rhinox)

1. I don't really like my name either, sorry if it offends you. I don't think people can get modkilled over usernames so good luck with that.

[syndromeofadown]

Okay I can already tell this game is going to be a bitch. I'm gone for 2 days and there's already like 37 pages to read through and a bunch of people are dead. I'm going to read through what I missed right now so I'm not completely lost or someone can be nice and give me a tl;dr version in the meantime.

[syndromeofadown]

any reason why my name's on the chopping block?

[syndromeofadown]

Okay that helps a lot, now I won't be lost. I'm still gonna read up just so I can get my own opinion on things but if I don't get fully caught up in one sitting at least I'll be able to know what's going on.

[syndromeofadown]

So you're saying he's scum that has been buddying so much that he fooled himself into thinking he had actual town reads?

What the hell.

[syndromeofadown]

Town do generally have similar thought processes. His first two points are kind of stupid, but I'm not sure why you're rolling your eyes at the last one.

[syndromeofadown]

Okay, so if your thought process was a town thought process, you shouldn't have trouble explaining it. What part of hammering someone before reading the thread seemed like a town thing to do? Don't say because "he was likely getting lynched anyway" because that's bullshit, frankly.

[syndromeofadown]

Because he was a generally useless claimed VT, I know he's usually useless and I wasn't going to get a sudden message from God telling me he was town.

Well I've played with Moneybags too and I know he gives off very blatant town-tells when he's town and blatant scum-tells when he's scum, but I guess that's just a difference in opinion. (I also hate that we burned a lynch on him because I find him very easy to read usually for this exact reason. If you had just waited he would have probably townslipped a bunch ).

Eh, I guess I can follow what you're saying, but for the record I think it's very stupid and anti-town, not necessarily scummy though.

[syndromeofadown]

I think he's saying his chances of being scum are slightly higher than random. (ε being epsilon, in math a constant of infinitesimal value)

[syndromeofadown]

^isn't that against the rules, even if joking?

in other news I have finished reading (well skimming mostly) and will now be working on my wall of text

[syndromeofadown]

I meant asking the question, not your answer, which was funny.

[syndromeofadown]

Reads so far

Spoiler: town

TeChNoWC

:
His thought processes very closely mirror my own in a lot of ways as I was rereading the thread and I see him questioning things I would question in the same situation. I often find myself agreeing with him on a lot of accounts. He's been pro-town and scumhunting consistently. One of my Biggest townread.

chevre

:
Town gutread because he's LEGIT scumhunting, and bringing up good ideas to the table.

Callforjudgement

:
Another town gutread, same reasons as above pretty much. Also your vote counts are better than the mod's since they link to the vote, so thanks for that.

kairyuu

His claim, Town.

Fritzler:

is playing too carefree and free flowing just saying whatever comes to mind. I don't think scum would have the balls to be this care free and would be more careful. Leaning town.

Uberninja

: I think he's like fritzler is being too ballsy and careless to be scum. The fact that he's posting more content and with more effort later on is null, since I often find myself putting varying levels of effort into games as town just depending on my mood. Don't agree that it's "too little too late" for him.

T-bone:

FoS people saying he copied his reads from random.org, I think there's clearly some sort of thought process behind them. I get the feeling he's genuinely trying to help town, even if the idea of a day 1 voting block is dumb. Also, adding people with <5 posts to a theoretical town death squad is just >_< Not the shining beacon of towniness, but still more likely town than scum

BBMolla

: First instinct I thought he was being way too carefree and free flowing to be scum, but then he started bringing all this WIFOM into play and I thought he was a mime, then the mimes were dead and I thought he might be scum because of what hoopla said, but then I came full circle and thought this is how town BB plays so he's town.

Spoiler: Not sure how to feel about

RedFF

- I don't really see how claiming VT is ANYTHING but WIFOM. Yeah, I get it, you don't think he would be clever enough to WIFOM the town like that, but given the possibility of DAYTALK he might have scumpartners that WOULD think of this and tell him to claim that with the promise of bailing him out. Specifically looking at the interaction between Hoopla and RedFF, if redFF ever flips scum Hoopla looks really bad, and if hoopla ever flips scum take a closer look at Red. Speaking of which:

Hoopla

- has been pretty logical and pro-town this game, but at the same time my gut is telling me to look out for her, can't really explain it. If I had to put it into words it would be that it feels like she has too much information - like she mentioned daytalk and multiple scum teams (specifically of size 5, WHY?) and keeps trying to guess the exact setup BASED ON NOTHING. But this is only gut feeling mostly, other than that she's been okay.

Also if you're not in the town or scum list you probably fit in here (either that or I just forgot about you)

Spoiler: scum

Spyrex

First he yells at town for policy lynching, then he advocates a policy lynch on RedFF big WTF there. I don't know what motivation a town have to ask for themselves to be the final lynch of the day so nonchalantly, and it seems more like a gambit to keep himself alive. Leaning scum

Muffin Wednesday

:
You've been riding T-bone for having bad town reads and claiming he got his reads from random.org WHEN YOU YOURSELF have inconsistent reads and you hate him for having a long list of town reads he doesn't explain when YOU YOURSELF do the same.

Your case on me is horrible. Your whole thing was based on the fact that you think I'm a mime, but then you call me non-mime in the exact same post and now you say I'm scum even though the mimes are all dead! Complete inconsistancy.

But it's not just me. Your case on Chevre is equally bad. You actually gave no reason for hating him so much other than "I disagree with him". Actually, I could go on, you're pushing so many BS cases at once, your scumreads are my town read and you've given town-reads to people I think are blatantly scummy and I generally dislike that.

MattP

:
Something feels off about Post 135 . You went through all the trouble of searching through 50 games to find games where hoopla is scum, and then searched through the posts to make sure nobody said anything about daytalk, and did it all in the 15 minutes since hoopla mentioned daytalk ITT?

I guess I could believe that, BUT why did you go through all the effort of reading through other threads for this one "town-tell" AND NOT even bother to read THIS thread? (As evidenced by not knowing there are mimes in your very next post) It just doesn't make sense to me at all. Seems like you kind of just BSed the "town-tell" (which really isn't a town-tell) on the spot. And you know who does that? Scum.

Petapan

:
Half of your posts are completely useless active lurking bullshit.
Post 546 in particular is just straight up useless IIOA. The thread hadn't even been open for a day, and you're trying to call people out for lurking. Ugh, it's like, some people have lives you know?? Your excuse given later is that you needed to review them BUT why the need to post this junk in the thread then? The thing that seperates him from others posting white noise is I really get the feeling he's

trying

so hard to look like he's doing useful things and contributing while not actually doing anything at all.

I also think that given my relatively short list of scum-reads compared to town reads and given the nature of this game a whole bunch of scum are probably not posting or are just coasting under the radar.

And with that:

VOTE: petapan

just because out of my scumreads he contributes the least. I'll support other wagons though if this doesnt pick up I guess. I think he should be lynched though

[syndromeofadown]

Are you going to do something besides insult me? This isn't helping your case bro

[syndromeofadown]

Why is Peta town, like at all?

I'm not really opposed to CC wagon though, better than uberinja or t-bone

[syndromeofadown]

It seems like you're problem is that you think I'm super-suspicious of the people I put in my scum list. I'm not super-suspicious of ANYONE. My scumlist consists of people who have done small suspicious things and haven't given me any town vibes. My TOWN list is concrete.

See this seems like backtracking to me, because I never got this impression from reading your posts. You seem really bloodthirsty and eager to lynch over these "small suspicious things", and actually there's proof of this in your hammer on moneybags. (P-edit: and now your vote on Spyrex who you NEVER had a scumread on). Pressure votes over small things to get better reads every now and then are fine, but you seem like you really just want lynches on whoever you can find any little reason to suspect.

[syndromeofadown]

So spyrex can't misread people? Good to know

[syndromeofadown]

He's already said he's fine being the final lynch of the day like a long time ago. He's also said T-bone is a town read which implies he wouldn't want to lynch him. Putting 2 and 2 together means he's fine being lynched before T-bone. This isn't a groundbreaking discovery.

[syndromeofadown]

Spyrex could be buddying or trying to build false connections to t-bone and his "I don't care if you lynch me" is just to fuck with the town. At least that would be my explanation for spyrex-scum/t-bone town, but my reads of those players are mostly independent of each other.

[syndromeofadown]

well that was a waste of time. how are you supposed to win against a lyncher team of 6 when its 10 to lynch?

[syndromeofadown]

@BBMolla: what is your case against Amrun besides "town amrun doesn't act like this" because as far as I know scum Amrun doesn't act like this either. Actually, if you want to argue meta I would say this is NOT scum amrun. I really just absolutely hate the "GOODPOSTING" thing though.

VOTE: BBMolla

[syndromeofadown]

SOAD why do you hate it

I think in general posts like "good posting/A+/good job" etc. that only serve to compliment the poster usually come from scum.

Do you think you have to wholeheartedly and completely disagree with everything your scumread says?

No, you can agree with scumreads and disagree with town reads, but like I said your post doesn't serve any purpose other than to congratulate amrun. You could have said "I agree that techno's points against UN are bad" and left it at that or maybe said "Amrun has been making good posts which make me reconsider my scumread on her" but as it stands you're just bringing up something obvious and patting amrun on the back for it. Which is scummy as fuck.

[syndromeofadown]

I lied, three mafia, one town.
Still a playstyle thing.

Yes, 3 mafia, 1 town. I didn't say it was a solid 100% scumtell, but you've proven my point that it comes from scum more than town. Playstyle... maybe. But I don't know how much more "playstyle" I can take from you before it starts wearing on my suspicion, which lately you have been to be honest.

Post 1608 - YYR. Don't know what it is, but this post gives me scummy vibes simply because simply because saying "lynch me if you really want to" while at L-7 and pressure is dissolving seems like he's overly paranoid and may be trying to get people to unvote him since spyrex said the same thing and somehow magically his wagon dissolved.

Don't feel like quoting the posts since its a lot of back and forth, but MattP's pressure on kondi is good, and kondi's defense feels like handwaving and pretty much trying to discredit Matt. ("you honestly suck at this game" "look at my scum record I can't be scum")

Post 1707Still not liking petapan. He posts IIOA, gets called out on it, responds with ad hominem attacks and this post feels like an excuse to lurk. His next posts aren't any better, see Post 1708, Post 1841. If he's not scum he's entirely useless to town.

Post 1902Callforjudgment Can you post thing specifically you don't like about him? How about an actual case or specific post you don't like. Actually, this goes to everyone voting Chevre. Just saying "look at his ISO it's bad" is not a good reason.

@ syndrome, theamateur, Staeg, your 1-person wagons are pretty useless. Whether they're scum or not, if you're not actively campaigning for their lynch while wasting your vote on them, you're doing it wrong and you need to switch to a better wagon. I recommend switching to Chevre.

BBMolla wasn't a 1 person wagon when I joined it, I just haven't been keeping up with the thread. Also, I generally like to keep my vote on whoever I think is scummiest at the time and disregard wagons unless it's close to deadline, but I can see that probably won't work in a game this large. Also I'm not voting Chevre, I think he's probably town haven't seen any good reason to vote him. I like kondi wagon better

VOTE: Kondi

[syndromeofadown]

kondi, why would you request a modkill for a player you think is town? Or do you not think red is town anymore?

[syndromeofadown]

Why do you think?

Honestly? Half of me suspects you don't like the pressure he puts on you and that would be a simple way to get him out of the way. I have seen RedFF call you names before and you never requested a modkill over it. And if you are town asking for someone else you have a town read on to get killed is suspicious to say the least. But then again RedFF is kind of a dick, so the other half of me can see why you don't want to play with him.

Chronopie's "k by me." is kind of weird after Fritzler's flip.

Also suspect callforjudgment as buddy. Totally, 100% completely ignores the Fritzler wagon despite posting votecounts, trying to support a counterwagon here.

What is more towny behavior - not seeing a case and voting someone else you think is scummy or not seeing a case and voting that same person anyway? Because that's exactly what you did. Also, what's your deal with Trevor? I'm not following your case a all, if you even posted one.

There's not much I can do. The only thing worth mentioning is that you said that you didn't understand the Fritzer votes, and then proceeded to vote him anyway even though no one really gave you a reason after you post. Instead you chose what seemed to be an arbitrary target from the current lynch wagon in the event that Fritzer flipped town.

You're saying Amrun is suspicious/scummy while at the same time are saying Fritzler + Amrun aren't scumbuddies? Explain.

[syndromeofadown]

nstead you chose what seemed to be an arbitrary target from the current lynch wagon in the event that Fritzer flipped town.

What event would Fritzler flip town but also be scumbuddies with Amrun? I guess that's the part that confuses me

[syndromeofadown]

VOTE: Spyrex

[syndromeofadown]

and we can learn a lot based on his flip, regarding plenty of other players and their attitudes towards him, and his attitudes towards them.

This is true. Post 1999 in particular will give us a lot to go off of depending on his flip. Look at his comments on Fritzler and Manho. Fritzler he just mentions hoopla, and manho he just gives half a sentence on. I have a feeling if SpyreX is scum his partners will have short comments like that with little real analysis.

[syndromeofadown]

VOTE: Nobody Special

[syndromeofadown]

hahahahaha

this game is too good

@techno in a game this big nobody should be counterclaiming if they have the same role, since having multiple of the same roles is a possibility.

[syndromeofadown]

VOTE: callforjudgement

[syndromeofadown]

and now his posting recently is scummy. plus we're sheeping mattp/amrun.

[syndromeofadown]

I believe that's L-1 actually

[syndromeofadown]

We're mass age-claiming.

[syndromeofadown]

I'd hold off on Kondi for now; a Kondi wagon wouldn't prove anything. Yes, I do have few posts, but that is no reason to lynch me when I have at least CONTRIBUTED, rather than quite a few other players.

Nobody said anything about lynching you.

[syndromeofadown]

CFJ's ISO makes it really fucking hard to find relationships between players, it's hard to skim with all the votecounts and then ctrl+F gives you like 100 results, but I noticed he's voted BBMolla multiple times before this, and each time only when his wagon had few players.

[syndromeofadown]

I don't feel good about lynching Kondi or spyrex anymore since MattP died, since I agree with kondi's logic.

I would think keeping a VT you know is fakeclaiming alive would be better than killing them.

[syndromeofadown]

Nah, if you were scum, you could have killed him to be able to make that argument. It's all WIFOM.

This makes me hesitant too.

[syndromeofadown]

wait, mattp said spyrex was town?

i am confuse.

MattP claimed daycop with an innocent on Kondi and Spyrex and a guilty on NS. MattP died the next night. If kondi or spyrex were scum I don't think they would have killed MattP

[syndromeofadown]

VOTE: Mastermind of Sin

[syndromeofadown]

I considered all that, of course - but I asked myself, "Would I trust this in endgame?" and the answer was no.

You're implying you would trust MoS more in an endgame situation?

[syndromeofadown]

Yes. He doesn't have any special reason to be scum beyond lurking.

Yes, but even if you think MoS is more likely to be town than hoopla, would you really want someone who hasn't read the thread at all with you in lylo? Would you really trust someone with no reads at all? At least hoopla keeps up, and if she's scum there's plenty of time for her to slip. MoS isn't going to contribute anything at all, ever. If there are any doubts it's best to get rid of him now.

[syndromeofadown]

@PV: nononono read more. Doc had two targets on MattP's claim; Delta and MattP.

Wait what? Please explain to me why a doctor would protect Deltawave over a claimed cop...

[syndromeofadown]

Are we not doing the whole claim thing anymore?

[syndromeofadown]

i don't know. because techno said so?

[syndromeofadown]

ok

[syndromeofadown]

Well I just saw him on the users browsing this forum so I thought he might have come to check on this thread.

[syndromeofadown]

how is sykedoc wagon bad?

[syndromeofadown]

I'm offended you put me on the same list as YYR/zoraster/elmo/trollie

[syndromeofadown]

YYR - see below
Chevre - town

UNVOTE:

VOTE: YYR

??????

[syndromeofadown]

oh I get it now

[syndromeofadown]

I thought you were calling him town there for a second

[syndromeofadown]

I just have access to Lowman's.

[syndromeofadown]

Clearly me buddying a dead player means I'm scum. Clearly it would help a scum win condition.

There are about a half a dozen other reasons of why I should be lynched, so why choose that one?

It's not buddying a dead player, but it is a form of "complaining" about the night kill, which is what scum do to seem like you're trying to distance yourself from the night kill. Also this post feels like scum getting angry for being caught "for the wrong reasons"

VOTE: YYR

[syndromeofadown]

I'd add Trevor, but thats not an interaction thing. Like you, he can live.

SOME of that list I'm not happy about on a fundamental level but.

name names

[syndromeofadown]

VOTE: PeregrineV

[syndromeofadown]

VOTE: zdenek

funky is a good lynch too. look at his knee jerk reaction after Peregrine's flip. Doesn't even stop to think about what BB's scum motivation would be and just tries to get what he thinks would be an easy quicklynch.

zdenek hasn't posted in like 15 days though. Cut the deadweight.

[syndromeofadown]

Not feeling zdenek scum. Who the fuck would buddy their scumbuddy that hard when they know he is going to die?

Why are you willing to vote funky, who you think is town, but only as a counterwagon to BB, yet unwilling to vote zdenek, who hasn't posted for 16 days?

[syndromeofadown]

I thought you were implying you didn't have a scumread on him when you voted him "just to counter BB wagon"

[syndromeofadown]

VOTE: Fun. Key. Bike. One.

still feeling funky

[syndromeofadown]

I think he meant literally the act of SOMEONE stopping the lynch is public. Read myko's flavor. It says SOMEONE stepped in and stop the lynch. Why mention claiming credit at all if absolutely everything, including specifically who caused the lynch, was public in the first place?

[syndromeofadown]

Let me see if I understand this correctly:

(1) if his lynch is redirected then that indicates DW is town since that would mean he has angel partners (and he wouldn't have to out them)
(2) if his lynch isn't redirected and DW is scum... we lynch scum

The problem I find with this is there's no point in testing (1) right now. I would agree maybe if there were fewer people alive, but there's 21 alive. There's still plenty of time to wait out and see if an angel gets nightkilled or has to claim later on to prove (1) without having to waste a redirect.

We should be focusing our efforts on lynching scum. Period. If you think DW is scum then go ahead, but if you're only voting him to confirm what could easily be confirmed naturally over the course of the game then just stop.

[syndromeofadown]

VOTE: sleepykrew

this is what we're doing now

[syndromeofadown]

any better ideas?

[syndromeofadown]

VOTE: DW


I think this is a dumb idea ftr, but whatever it's not like anything else is happening

[syndromeofadown]

not really except funkybike BUT NOBODY WANTS TO LYNCH HIM

[syndromeofadown]

please shoot me then

[syndromeofadown]

I honestly don't want to play anymore and don't think I'll be NKed

[syndromeofadown]

nonsense animate the shelf for we all got to be done this month for myself

acknowledging pretty much does the same thing but you'll make useful you are saying they don't pay cash prizes still tight and they don't tell me

[syndromeofadown]

did you fucking seriously?

[syndromeofadown]

VOTE: ellibereth

[syndromeofadown]

I'm wondering where the hell this elli counterwagon just came from

3841

1) predicting a town-flip on a player that's L-1 about to get lynched. He's put no effort into actually stopping the lynch or counterwagon and only mentions it when zoro's at L-1... could be trying to gain town credit if zoro flipped town
2) Trying to direct away from lurker lynches while also being in the lurker pool - seems like it could be self-preservation
3) Blanket statement about "active players are scum" while not calling out specific players
4) In general just trying to spread paranoia

[syndromeofadown]

A mild scumread all game. I'm still not sure how he escaped rope yesterday.

he must have stocked up!

VOTE: funkybike1

[syndromeofadown]

hey, I'll post something later.

[syndromeofadown]

I believe that's L-1

[syndromeofadown]

VOTE: theamature

[syndromeofadown]

why is zaj scum?

[syndromeofadown]

VOTE: ellibereth

[syndromeofadown]

don't really think it's ellibereth because of inactivity

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22589

scenario that happened with me in a game in the past:

I'm scum.
I was in the period where I couldn't post on weekends.
During weekdays when I could post, I would purposefully post once on monday, once on thursday/friday (something like that), staying within prod dodge range and all that
so the V/LA complemented the lurking and all that.

[syndromeofadown]

..... _______
.....|/------|
.....|
.....|
.....|
.....|
.....|
..__|___

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ || _ _ _ _ _ _

[syndromeofadown]

VOTE: spyrex

[syndromeofadown]

..... _______
.....|/------|
.....|------(_)
.....|
.....|
.....|
.....|
..__|___

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ || _ _ _ _ _ _

no Y

[syndromeofadown]

VOTE: syndrome

just promise me funky/theam/elli are next to go. also zajnet is town, don't be stupid. good luck!

[syndromeofadown]

finally

its over.

[syndromeofadown]

for laughs

and we suck >_<

[syndromeofadown]

don't post the scum quicktopic it will make us(me) look stupid lol
(though in my defense this was my first scum game ever on MS)

though I am curious of what was going on in the angel QT

[syndromeofadown]

I'm not going to post the angel QT.

I'll show you mine if you show me yours

[syndromeofadown]

Vote Count

• CFJ's Title (1)
  : Rhinox
  
• Not voting:
  AGar BBMolla callforjudgment Captain Corporal Chronopie Ellibereth funkybike1 Gregory Kairyuu Lupo manho Mastermind of Sin Milk Muffin Wednesday petapan Robotnick2 SleepyKrew Staeg sykedoc TeChNoWC theamateur The Mini-Librarian Zajnet Zdenek zoraster refFF MoneyBags IceGuy Johhog NobodySpecial PeregrineV Amrun Hoopla YYR SpyreX MattP ElmoTehAzn

With 49 alive it is 10 to support the title Rhinox is proposing for CFJ.

where do I vote