New York 146 Zach's Insane Mafia World (OVER)


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Post Post #375 (ISO) » Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:14 pm

Post by Tammy »

In post 36, havingfitz wrote:

One of Alice and Jason are probably lying. I do not think there is a tracker AND a watcher. That combined with the fact they have both at one time or another raised my suspicions. Of the two of them I am probably leaning towards Jason as being the fakeclaimer based on the fact he (iirc) claimed way early when he didn't need to. Though as I type this...if I recall...Alice claimed when she didn't have to at all. But Alice's circumstances were more believable so I go back to leaning towards hers being legit vs jasons. If they are both telling the truth I will be at a loss for words. I know we are still waiting to hear Jason's 2nd visitor from N1. How his D4 starts will probably determine whether I vote him or not.



Do you think you could recall the circumstances of this claim for me?
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Post Post #376 (ISO) » Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:17 pm

Post by Tammy »

In post 373, Alicewondering wrote:Yeah, that's what we're saying. If there's an SK, Snake's the only possibility for him. Look at his previous posts. He really has not been online that much. It's not a matter of incompentency--it's a matter of real world issues. Now you're just trying to WIFOM.

More votes on Tammy errybody.


So, the post in which he votes for someone and the post in which he asks to replace out?

All right. You make a world of sense.

<-----------Not as easy of a target as you seem to think I am btw.
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Post Post #377 (ISO) » Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:54 am

Post by havingfitz »

Looks like a welcome burst of activity. Unfortunately I am going to have to go
v/LA until Monday.
Easter activities (family, cleaning, cooking, Eastering) are keeping me from addressing some MOI and Tammy comments. Welcome Magua and Tammy. If I can sneak some (additional) posting in I will.
Town 57w-66l :: Not Town 29w-16l:: TBD 2
V/LA on weekends (i.e. RL > mafia)

The shortest GTKAS thread ever!
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Post Post #378 (ISO) » Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:00 am

Post by Tammy »

All right let's try this again. So sorry for nonsense posts - really should remember to eat dinner before going to the neighbor's party to avoid brain shutting down. I have no idea what I was trying to say up there. *idiot*

Really hate mass claims as I almost always get stuck with a role that makes me look bad or no role which also makes me look bad *see here*. Also, the roles tend to be used to figure out alignment rather than behavior which is just meh.

That being said it looks like there's a tracker, a neighborizer, an FBI agent (investigator?), a watered down finder, a jailkeeper, a bodyguard, and a two shot healer? Hmmm in a sea of VTs. Sounds a bit overpowered for town. Are roles distributed randomly here? So the vanilla cop and JK were definitely town. Still looks overpowered. At least one of those roles belong to team evil, or one of the VTs is lying *welp, not me*.

Is anyone alive CI'd?

I still don't know what to make of the SK theory; there should be at least one night that there was more than one kill.

When my head stops pounding I'll read the thread and try to make sense of the SK theory.
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Post Post #379 (ISO) » Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:03 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

MOD – I’ll be LA this weekend staring at 1pm EDT today for Easter and regular family duties.


--

Alice wrote: Which is what I said? He vanilla copped people, not VT cop. MOI is the one who says he was VT cop. But yeah, MOI, this is why you're wrong.


Are you really arguing the nomenclature thing here? Fact – muffin was a Vanilla Cop who could bust ANY Mafia who claimed VT. As he did with IAI. That’s what I’ve been saying for awhile and I wonder why you keep arguing with me that I’m wrong.

--

UNVOTE: Darth
VOTE: Tammy

Where was this support when I was voting Snake earlier?

Tammy’s play this game looks nothing like my previous experience with Tammy-Town.

Tammy wrote:But yeah, put some more of your valuable votes on my wagon...that makes sense...you should probably speed lynch me before I get a chance to really read the thread and make sense of it.


So instead of doing just that and taking your time reading you have been responding to every little post from an ill-informed position?

Tammy wrote: That being said it looks like there's a tracker, a neighborizer, an FBI agent (investigator?),
a watered down finder
, a jailkeeper, a bodyguard, and a two shot healer? Hmmm in a sea of VTs. Sounds a bit overpowered for town. Are roles distributed randomly here? So the vanilla cop and JK were definitely town. Still looks overpowered. At least one of those roles belong to team evil, or one of the VTs is lying *welp, not me*.


Why does the bolded appear in your list when no-one has claimed anything of the sort?
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Post Post #380 (ISO) » Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:55 am

Post by Alicewondering »

In post 374, Tammy wrote:Please tell me how your theory of Snake...(me) as a serial killer fits here. I mean it's a wonderful theory and all...built up from the ground, it just doesn't fit with the evidence now does it. Sure the flavor of the kills is different, but please explain to me why there isn't more than one kill per night. Has anyone claimed guarding my VT character? NO? Oh geeze, I wonder why not. Perhaps that's because I don't have the capability to kill people at night.

Why? We already explained why. Snake flaked so he didn't submit any NKs or were blocked by doctor. This means that none of his kills went through. Why then, would we have a claimed FBI agent? (You seem unsure as to what this is. An FBI agent is an investigator that ONLY finds serial killers. Thus, it is likely that a setup with FBI agent also has an SK). I believe now that DY is town, so if he is telling the truth, I don't think that there is a chance of his role being a red herring. I have never seen that done before, and I don't think it is part of this game. So then what other explanation for the lack of SK kills is there? Magua has provided a perfectly reasonable one that pretty much solves all of my questions about the DY claim/SK.

You're not even close to getting lynched, so stop playing that card. Read the thread. If you're really town, which I doubt,

In post 375, Tammy wrote:Do you think you could recall the circumstances of this claim for me?

Under pressure at L-4, Jason claims Watcher. I track him that night to see if he is telling the truth, and I find that he has watched himself. Thinking that he is scum, and afraid that I will get NKed without giving town any information, I claim (while not under pressure), pushing for a Jason lynch.

In post 378, Tammy wrote:Really hate mass claims as I almost always get stuck with a role that makes me look bad or no role which also makes me look bad *see here*. Also, the roles tend to be used to figure out alignment rather than behavior which is just meh.
Maybe you're just mad Snake didn't do a better fakeclaim for you. VT shouldn't look bad unless you are suspicious.

Yeah, I feel like a Tammy lynch is good. Maybe we should just speedlynch her and ask questions tomorrow so that scum has less to work with.
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Post Post #381 (ISO) » Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:05 am

Post by Tammy »

In post 379, MagnaofIllusion wrote:

So instead of doing just that and taking your time reading you have been responding to every little post from an ill-informed position?

Tammy wrote: That being said it looks like there's a tracker, a neighborizer, an FBI agent (investigator?),
a watered down finder
, a jailkeeper, a bodyguard, and a two shot healer? Hmmm in a sea of VTs. Sounds a bit overpowered for town. Are roles distributed randomly here? So the vanilla cop and JK were definitely town. Still looks overpowered. At least one of those roles belong to team evil, or one of the VTs is lying *welp, not me*.


Why does the bolded appear in your list when no-one has claimed anything of the sort?


Yeah, shouldn't have done that. I tend to cycle through threads and comment as I go through, but I shouldn't have done that in this case. I was operating under an incorrect assumption that the thread started at day 5 and didn't realize I was wrong until I got to the Tracker/Watcher thing. That and replacing into a game so late without having a clear picture, it was stupid of me not to adjust my normal approach. (That and the wine I drank on an empty stomach hit me a lot harder than I expected it to and was getting worse as I was reading. I mean I can form a coherent sentence even when I'm scum.)

The watered down finder is the vanilla cop. As I understand it, it just tells you if someone is vanilla, right? Doesn't actually tell you what role they have if not vanilla therefore is not a full-fledged finder.
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Post Post #382 (ISO) » Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:21 am

Post by Tammy »

In post 380, Alicewondering wrote:

Maybe you're just mad Snake didn't do a better fakeclaim for you. VT shouldn't look bad unless you are suspicious.

Yeah, I feel like a Tammy lynch is good. Maybe we should just speedlynch her and ask questions tomorrow so that scum has less to work with.


Thank you. I didn't know what an FBI Agent was.

Why would I be mad at Snake? He didn't fakeclaim anything. VT doesn't look bad except some people think it's cause for autolynching.

Speedlynching me would just be silly. You'd be lynching a vanilla townie anyway, not your serial killer or a member of the mafia.

I'm making my way through the thread right now, but seeing as how you have an FBI Agent, why don't you just have him investigate me tonight? The results will come back not a serial killer.
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Post Post #383 (ISO) » Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:31 am

Post by Zachrulez »

8th vote count of day 5:


Tammy - 3 (Magua, Alicewondering, MagnaofIllusion)
DarthYoshi - 2 (DeasVail, Nobody Special)
redff - 2 (havingfitz, Snakeplissken)
Nobody Special - 2 (redFF, Jon_h61)
MagnaofIllusion - 1 (DarthYoshi)

Not Voting: ()

With 10 alive it's 6 to lynch.

Day 5 will end no later than Friday, April 13th at 6pm CST
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Post Post #384 (ISO) » Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:55 am

Post by Magua »

Hey.

Tammy.

Hey.

Tammy.

I want to explain a simple thing to you, and I want you to understand it and then not bloody reply until you've read the thread, which is seriously not that long.

I'm not looking to lynch you because Snake claimed VT. I'm not looking to lynch you because either you or Snake are or were an easy target.

I'm looking to lynch you because I believe there's an SK in the game, and all of the evidence points at that SK being you.

If you're town, you need to do something other than "Welp, not me." That is what scum do. Scum only care about survival -- lynch anyone but them and they're happy. Town need to worry about lynching right. So far all of your posts have been "Don't lynch me, I'm just a VT," and nothing about who should be lynched in the meantime.

Your posts have literally zero value until you have some idea of an answer to the question of who *should* be lynched.

Seriously. Don't respond to this post (or any others) until you've read the thread and have any opinion at all other than "Welp, not me".
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Post Post #385 (ISO) » Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:18 am

Post by Tammy »

Geeze dude, back off. Don't need a lecture. Had an issue last night, back to my usual self.

Does the bodyguard role keep someone alive? I've never seen this role before. So, if redff is the bodyguard and if he would have guarded Kamrun, would Kamrun still be alive?
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Post Post #386 (ISO) » Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:27 am

Post by redFF »

Yes and I would have died.
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Post Post #387 (ISO) » Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:47 am

Post by Tammy »

You would have died, but you didn't. Which action resolves first here? The assumption is that you guarded Kamrun and Kamrun jailed you and that's why it failed, correct?

Sorry for posting before I'm actually *allowed* to, but can someone explain to me how this process works?
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Post Post #388 (ISO) » Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:03 am

Post by redFF »

Yes.
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Post Post #389 (ISO) » Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:10 am

Post by Tammy »

So in this situation if you guarded someone who guarded you, you both effectively stared at each other leaving both of you vulnerable?
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Post Post #390 (ISO) » Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:11 am

Post by redFF »

well no, kamrun jailed me, which means I was roleblocked and unable to be killed, which left them vulnerable.
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Post Post #391 (ISO) » Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:18 am

Post by Tammy »

So the jailing is the action that resolves first then?
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Post Post #392 (ISO) » Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:19 am

Post by redFF »

Roleblocks usually block roles, yes.
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Post Post #393 (ISO) » Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:10 am

Post by Tammy »

Yes, I understand that. I was trying to make sense of which action resolved first. At my site, if two guards target each other they basically just stare at each other because their actions resolve simultaneously. However, there are other roles that resolve in a specific order and that determines who blocks, heals, etc.
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Post Post #394 (ISO) » Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:49 am

Post by Magua »

Hey.

Tammy.

Hey.

Tammy.

How much of the thread have you read?

I only ask because the jailkeeper jailing the bodyguard is discussed on pages
1
,
2
, and 7.

Seriously. Page 1.
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Post Post #395 (ISO) » Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:09 am

Post by Tammy »

All right finally done. This has been an interesting experiment. I've never replaced into a game so late before and with so little information; reads are also hard to get as I get my reads mostly from interaction I have with people rather than reading.

This incarnation of the thread began at day 4, correct? After I Am Innocent was lynched on day 3? Did anyone do any potential partner analysis or wagon analysis on Innocent? If so, do you recall what your most likely assumptions were and why? I don't see much of that in the case of Jason either. The only thing I remember is the wagon analysis MoI did to show Alice why the theory of DV being his partner doesn't work due to the competing wagons.

So, during Jason's lynching he claims to have caught DV making a kill and tries to remind everyone that redff has been a suspect for the SK role. Now either he was pulling one of those last "I'll throw crap at my partner to get people to think he's not my partner thing" or he was just going after an easy target. Don't really know what to do with DV. He seems rather jumpy and the not wanted to be tracked thing is a bit weird. Sure, he explains it, but not wanting someone to verify your claim, at least as much as is possible, is odd.

However, the fact that he claims that he was thinking about a fake claim makes me feel lots better about him. I don't know why someone said that town doesn't fake claim; they do it all the time. There was no reason for him to say that he was thinking about a fake claim if he's scum. Admitting to something like this is a thing I've only ever seen from town. It's not impossible to come from scum, but still I have a weak town read on him.

HF - Really think he would have backed off the DV thing by now if he were scum, particularly since it's not picking up any steam.

Darth Yoshi is town. His posts read town to me as does his concern over MoI still being alive. The only time I've ever gotten a reaction like this in a game, in which players are getting paranoid and suggesting I should be lynched out of paranoia that I'm still alive days after they think I should be dead, is from town. This reads as town driven paranoia and his interaction with Alice reads as town driven frustration.

What I find odd is MoI's reaction to his suspicion. When MoI replaced into the Kirby game, and he said who would probably be scum if they remained alive for too many more days with the player list, he said that he would say the same thing about himself. So if he knows he's going to get suspicion when he remains alive for a little while, why does he seem surprised or frustrated by it? (Although he handles it a lot better than I do when it happens to me.)

I want to have a town read on MoI, but can't quite get there. Mostly it's because the impression that I get from his scumhunting is that it's a bit too objective in presentation...too focused on verifiables that while are important are a really safe place for scum to hunt. I need to think about this one.

Other than that strong town reads include Alice and Magua. Alice because of role purposes and behavior. Magua by way of Ghostlin, and because he's rude - which I tend to associate with town. Yes, Magua I finished reading the thread. Are you rude because you think I'm scum, or is this just your natural play?

Haven't decided what I think about redff and jonh61. Leaning town on jon and not town on red at the moment though.

Vote: Nobody Special


NS is my best candidate for scum though. Other suspicions about him have already been talked about namely his testing the waters to see if anyone would buy the Alice was bussing Jason thing. Two other things stuck out to me though, and that was his overexplanation in 155 for why he was suddenly being helpful in the game and lack of pretty much anything else. One of the last things NS says is that there's no way he and DV can be scum together in post 333, which is just an odd post altogether.
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Post Post #396 (ISO) » Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:19 am

Post by Tammy »

Oh meant to mention the SK thing. I have no idea. I've only played in one game before with a serial killer and it was advertised as such. Do you guys routinely not know the setup to your games? I've never played in a multi-factional game and that information not given out beforehand. It doesn't make much sense as that kind of information is necessary so that you can adequately judge the players behavior.

I don't know what to make of the different flavors of the killings. Jason dropped a gun when he died right? Did Innocent also drop a gun? I would imagine the last killer would have a gun as well because Kamrun was shot like the other two. How do you all perform night kills here? At my site typically the entire scum faction completes the kill as one. They can also use whatever roles they have and kill simultaneously. However, once in a game I modded I limited the use of roles and kills so that one had to perform the kill alone if the other used their role. Is the night kill submitted as a team here or is it submitted individually? If it's submitted individually, is it possible that not everyone has the same type of killing power?
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Post Post #397 (ISO) » Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:25 am

Post by redFF »

Jason dropped a gun when he died right? Did Innocent also drop a gun? I would imagine the last killer would have a gun as well because Kamrun was shot like the other two.

How are you so sure there are 3 "killers"?
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Post Post #398 (ISO) » Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:33 am

Post by Tammy »

In post 397, redFF wrote:
Jason dropped a gun when he died right? Did Innocent also drop a gun? I would imagine the last killer would have a gun as well because Kamrun was shot like the other two.

How are you so sure there are 3 "killers"?


I'm not. You started with 18 players though. Three killers in an 18 player game is what I'm accustomed to.

I forgot about the balance discussion earlier in which MoI and Magua talked abou what was typical for this site.
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Post Post #399 (ISO) » Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:36 am

Post by Magua »

In post 395, Tammy wrote:This incarnation of the thread began at day 4, correct?


Yes.

Tammy wrote:Magua by way of Ghostlin, and because he's rude - which I tend to associate with town. Yes, Magua I finished reading the thread. Are you rude because you think I'm scum, or is this just your natural play?


That's not rudeness. That's condescension. I'm condescending towards bad play (<--- ok,
that
might be rude). Replacing in and saying, "Guys, don't vote me, I'm not scum" repeatedly is bad play.

Tammy wrote:
Vote: Nobody Special


NS is my best candidate for scum though. Other suspicions about him have already been talked about namely his testing the waters to see if anyone would buy the Alice was bussing Jason thing. Two other things stuck out to me though, and that was his overexplanation in 155 for why he was suddenly being helpful in the game and lack of pretty much anything else. One of the last things NS says is that there's no way he and DV can be scum together in post 333, which is just an odd post altogether.


Why do you say DV is town for saying he was thinking about fakeclaiming, but NS is scum for testing the waters on an Alice lynch? In both cases it's someone openly doing a scummy action.

More specifically, why do you have a townread on Jon_h61 and a scumread on NS when they seem roughly comparable in terms of contribution to the thread?

Second, do you think NS is mafia or the SK? If you think he's mafia, who do you think is the SK?

Tammy wrote:I don't know what to make of the different flavors of the killings. Jason dropped a gun when he died right? Did Innocent also drop a gun? I would imagine the last killer would have a gun as well because Kamrun was shot like the other two.


Traditionally, "shot" is a Mafia kill flavor. That's reinforced here by the Mafia having guns in the lynch flavor. SK kill flavor is traditionally "stabbed" or similar, but "murdered" as SK flavor doesn't surprise me.

Tammy wrote:How do you all perform night kills here? At my site typically the entire scum faction completes the kill as one. They can also use whatever roles they have and kill simultaneously. However, once in a game I modded I limited the use of roles and kills so that one had to perform the kill alone if the other used their role. Is the night kill submitted as a team here or is it submitted individually? If it's submitted individually, is it possible that not everyone has the same type of killing power?


With a factional kill like the Mafia, one member is specified as performing the kill. Typically, they cannot use any other role at the same Night that they kill, but this is not a set-in-stone rule. If a Mafia who is performing the kill is tracked, they are seen going to the person who died; if they're roleblocked, the kill fails, etc. Those things don't occur if done on a Mafia member who didn't perform the kill.

Modnote: Quote tag fixed.
Last edited by Zachrulez on Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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