Good vs Evil, Law vs Chaos Reboot - Game Over, Good wins

[Tammy]

Tammy, I'm still waiting for you to explain who my logic falls apart.

*counting to 10*

Zdenek - You didn't have any logic to begin with. None of my questions were pointless. Fine if you want to consider some of them stupid, whatever...don't care. I had a reason to ask every single question I asked. Furthermore, none of the questions were designed with the various underhanded crap you accused me of.

But, it's nice to note that after I pointed out that my questions couldn't be pointless and doing this random crap that you want to say I'm doing, you come back with a "Oh well, some are pointless, some are defending, and some are redirecting suspicion." Backtrack all you want...throw whatever random crap at me all you want. The fact will never change that I'm not doing what you are accusing me of.

And with this I'm done. This argument has been going on since Wednesday. I can't prove to you that I've told you the truth about everything: That asking questions in order to evaluate people is just how I play the game, and that there isn't anything underhanded about any of the questions I've asked. That asking questions is how I develop my reads on people.

You can keep on trying to prove you're right all you want. You're wrong, by the way, but whatever. Or you can actually act like town, if you are, and work towards our common purpose: finding scum. Because really all you're doing is causing a distraction. I've had to answer for your stupid crap for nearly a week now. I'm tired, and I'm sure everyone else is tired of reading it. The only people who benefit from distractions like this are scum, which is perfect for you if you are scum. In that case go ahead and keep up this crap.

If you like to repeat yourself over and over again, great that's good for you. I don't find that fun; I find that tedious. You are like talking to a brick wall because you don't listen to anything. And if you aren't going to bother listening to anything I say, I don't know why you keep it going.

But yeah, done with this argument, and done with this game for the night.

[LimMePls]

Been away for the weekend. Will post tomorrow.

[Mastermind of Sin]

What about MoS? He doesn't seem to be an active scum hunter. Why are you almost exclusively attacking tammy for this.

That is a very good question.

Not it's not, since that isn't what I was doing. Considering that I'd answered CD's question before you made this comment, you are clearly misrepresenting what I've said.

LMFAO

I didn't even fucking read whatever it was you said, and I didn't put ANY spin on it. How am I "clearly misrepresenting" you?

Tammy, I'm still waiting for you to explain who my logic falls apart.

Erm...if your logic is as good as your grasp of English grammar, I don't think Tammy even needs to try.

[Zdenek]

So MoS is scum who's decided to not read the thread and snipe from the sidelines.

[Mastermind of Sin]

LoL

[Norman]

What about MoS? He doesn't seem to be an active scum hunter. Why are you almost exclusively attacking tammy for this.

That is a very good question.

Not it's not, since that isn't what I was doing. Considering that I'd answered CD's question before you made this comment, you are clearly misrepresenting what I've said.

LMFAO

I didn't even fucking read whatever it was you said, and I didn't put ANY spin on it. How am I "clearly misrepresenting" you?

Tammy, I'm still waiting for you to explain who my logic falls apart.

Erm...if your logic is as good as your grasp of English grammar, I don't think Tammy even needs to try.

MoS is scum or Cecil the Druid. I'm thinking Cecil... But idk.

[MaguaofIllusion]

Trekker and Haze are players outside of Foxace that both of our heads would support lynching at this stage.

As a reminder – at least 1 of trekker / Haze / Skenvoy’s slot / AV are confirmed scum.

Cooldog continues to get more obv-Town as the Day goes on. At this stage (page 32 as I write this) those players on his wagon are likely scum or the worst level of Mafia player we have on site.

Moneybags can DIAF for taking the Anti-Town that we’ve already seen and ratcheting it up a notch.

@Greenknight

– So you are inferring it’s scummy that Pine (no matter how dumb the claim timing / reasoning) has claimed a role highly speculated to be in the game and not currently counter-claimed. Do I have that right?

@AV

– Not lynching someone who you think is obv-scum because they will ‘only be a goon’ is so beyond dumb I’m not sure I read that right. Did you actually intend to say that?

@Foxace

– I don’t particularly care if you like to only deal with one person at a time. This is a Large game in the big boy playground. If you can’t keep up that’s not my problem.

In regards to your list of our Town posts I’d like to remind you of your original quote that brought up this question from you –

Im getting so confused by him. One of his heads seems obv town to me and the other is iffy.

So here you hopped on the “One head is scummy, one is Obv-Town” sentiment floating around. So let’s examine 819’s list of Town posts (14 in total) –

Head One (the obv-Town cuddly head) – 6 posts (19, 327, 464, 607, 610, 772)
Head Two (the ‘mean’ and scummy head) – 8 posts (80, 184, 189, 350, 491, 511, 656, 730)

So more of the posts have been made by the head you claim was giving you scum vibes. While we are on the subject answer me some questions –

What is Pro-Town about Post 19?
What is Pro-Town about Post 491?
What is Pro-Town about Post 511? Why did it take you so long to complete the task (given 5 of the 14 posts you call Pro-Town came after my first request for you to explain why one head was Pro-Town and the other scummy)?

@Haze

– Let’s talk about Post 829.

1. I’ve consistently listed trekker, yourself, Skenvoy and AV as having at least 1 scum. Why did you fail to list trekker in 829? He’s in the list just like you every time?
2. Why are you asserting we are focusing on lurkers when the majority of my posts are directed to active players?
3. Again – please explain why you did not post in the thread until conveniently just after Post 491 where I called you out for such and you were not being prodded.

Furthermore your Post 831 contains some very scummy elements –

Calling Tammy scum for posting detailed and readable explanations and responses?
No explanation for why Jackal is scum?
Whining about Pine’s claim making things ‘unfun? Is it unfun because his claim removes him from the possible mislynch category for you?

@Zdenek

– You seem confused. You keep framing the issue regarding your suspicion of Tammy as this head making statement he can’t possibly believe based on my past. That’s continually dodging the issue.

The facets of your ‘case’ on Tammy are as follows per the thread

1. Asking pointless questions – you haven’t proven that the questions Tammy are asking are pointless and not valid scum-hunting.
2. She isn’t taking stances – not valid.
3. That questioning Player A’s attack on Player B is scummy if Tammy isn’t Player B – again it isn’t scummy to point out scummy attacks players are making on others. That’s usually scum-hunting, especially if her points are valid (which they are, IMO). For example I’ve been doing that with you in regards to Tammy.

My position on why you are either terrible Town or scum is rooted directly in the fact that you’ve been making scummy attacks on Tammy. She’s a pretty solid Town read for both heads and the manner you are approaching her is scummy IMO.

@Lord M

– are you specifically trying to play stupid? Lemon picked up 5 votes by Post 29 of this very thread. That’s as many votes as the wagon on Norman (who you have since voted) picked up. Again – why were you not worried about that wagon?

Lord M’s empty ‘Townie’ posts continue to help build my scum-read on the slot.

[Pine]

Cecil the Druid is dead, Norman. He was the pre-game NPC. Please, please stop being a moron.

[Foxace36]

@Mod

I got on to let you know that I will be absent until sunday. I have rehearsals tomorrow and I have to perform in my actual play wednesday, thursday, friday, and saturday.
And on top of all of that, I have school. I MIGHT be able to make small posts here and there but don't count on it.

Thanks.

[Norman]

Cecil the Druid is dead, Norman. He was the pre-game NPC. Please, please stop being a moron.

No, Cecil the Druid is what you think he is, if you believe.

[Zdenek]

@Zdenek

– You seem confused. You keep framing the issue regarding your suspicion of Tammy as this head making statement he can’t possibly believe based on my past. That’s continually dodging the issue.

The facets of your ‘case’ on Tammy are as follows per the thread

1. Asking pointless questions – you haven’t proven that the questions Tammy are asking are pointless and not valid scum-hunting.
2. She isn’t taking stances – not valid.
3. That questioning Player A’s attack on Player B is scummy if Tammy isn’t Player B – again it isn’t scummy to point out scummy attacks players are making on others. That’s usually scum-hunting, especially if her points are valid (which they are, IMO). For example I’ve been doing that with you in regards to Tammy.

My position on why you are either terrible Town or scum is rooted directly in the fact that you’ve been making scummy attacks on Tammy. She’s a pretty solid Town read for both heads and the manner you are approaching her is scummy IMO.

I haven't dodged anything. If that's what your comment was meant to mean, it's incredibly vague.

Here's more evidence of what Tammy is doing, and since you seem to not believe that is something that scum would do, here's an example:

Compare Tammy's play to Darth Yoshi's play in Nexusville Mafia.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=16263

Darth Yoshi questioning other people's attacks:

Nameless--what exactly is bothering you about Ninja's posts (I presume you're talking about the ones directed at WoMC and Neko)?

KTS--how does being eager to accuse work as a scumtell for you? Really, how do all those other behaviors you describe of Saint work as scumtells

Tammy questioning other people's attacks:

Have you found that scum is more likely to not read the rules?

Why should I vote AVox? Because you say so? Give me a better reason than OMGUS. Give me a better reason than the crap you provided.

This one is specifically bad, since she'd previously agreed with me about AVox's quote saying that everyone against the mass claim was fear mongering.

Darth Yoshi using questions to get other people to do his dirty work:

Like Ice, I really don’t like Implosion’s #152, in part because of what Ice says in #158, but especially because one could say the exact same thing about Mongoose being an “easy target” as one could about _over9000, and that is who Implosion’s vote is on at the moment. Implosion, why point this out in _over9000’s case and not Mongoose, especially when your vote is on Mongoose?

I’m also curious about your read on Mongoose—you say in #224 that he lurks as scum, but you also say in your very next post that you played with Mongoose and this wasn’t his scum play—but Mongoose has spent a lot of time lurking or just not being around (including, I would consider, the present moment, with him having checked in some time ago, but w/ still no content). This looks odd.

Tammy usinging questions to get other people to do her dirty work:

What are your reasons for wanting to lynch Pine?

How are his word choices any different than trekker's which I'm to take you have a good opinion of?

Darth Yoshi asking questions instead of taking stances:

Nameless, the coin flip seems really odd when you basically went ahead and did quick reads of the players right after you voted anyways. Why didn't you just do that before you voted?

why were you casting suspicion on one bandwagon when you explicitly encouraged the other?

Tammy asking questions instead of taking stances:

Congratulations. Do you have a contribution to make?

He asks in post 212 why people always get a newb reading on him, but in post #669 in response to Pine's vote on him, he says "Probably thinking it's be easy to get a noob townie like myself lynched." Why originally sound annoyed to have people getting a newb reading then characterize yourself as a noob?

Why is he doing it in such a similar manner as Norman did? Is he hoping it's going to get him less heat or something. Also, what's up with building a case on Pine afterwards and not bothering to move his vote from himself to Pine?

I've already posted other examples of Tammy doing these things, so these are not isolated events.

The fact that there is scum motivation in playing like this is plain to see, so the fact that you are attacking for attacking Tammy is ridiculous.

I also want you to explain your town read her.

[Haze]

Trekker and Haze are players outside of Foxace that both of our heads would support lynching at this stage.

KK. Anything in particular you want me to say?

@Haze

– Let’s talk about Post 829.

1. I’ve consistently listed trekker, yourself, Skenvoy and AV as having at least 1 scum. Why did you fail to list trekker in 829? He’s in the list just like you every time?

Good catch. I have no idea. It was a mistake. Read what you will

2. Why are you asserting we are focusing on lurkers when the majority of my posts are directed to active players?

No, I just notice that out of all the other players you seem to enjoy poking the lurkers a lot. Not asserting that you are focusing on lurkers, but you tend to pay extra attention.

3. Again – please explain why you did not post in the thread until conveniently just after Post 491 where I called you out for such and you were not being prodded.

Coincidence? I have to say points 1 & 3 that you have against me are very circumstancial. 2 is fair enough.

Furthermore your Post 831 contains some very scummy elements –

Calling Tammy scum for posting detailed and readable explanations and responses?

That's the thing. You could be scum and still be calling out reasonable scumtells. I'm just finding things that differentiate you from the town scumhunter. Things like calling out lurkers all the time. Oh and its' funny you mention readable: does a readable argument make it more credible and more town?

No explanation for why Jackal is scum?

Jackal? Doesn't make much sense + hardcore sheep?

Whining about Pine’s claim making things ‘unfun? Is it unfun because his claim removes him from the possible mislynch category for you?

No. Pine was being...was complaining about people like Norman ruining the game. I got pissed because he was the one throwing the game by giving up and just claiming. And his hypocrisy really go to me so I was like "Yo STFU you're the bastard here for just throwing your wincon" I don't think you can call it whining. Also the game is also more fun when civil, which Pine doesn't seem to appreciate.

Eh. I'll answer in bold ^

[CooLDoG]

@Pine, before making such a big step as a claim shouldn't you read the whole thread first?
@Pine's 820, One, you had no good reason to claim. Ypur reasdon was that you were to goddamn lazy to read the thread. Is lurking a scum tell for you?

1) Fuck you, 13 out of 26 people ready to lynch me, regardless of actual number of votes, was enough to make me panic.
2) Lurking is never, ever a scum tell on D1. Complete absence from the thread is actually a weak Town tell, as it indicates that there's no scum QT to remind you, no pressure to prove yourself, and the person isn't excited about the challenge.

Yeah, only scum are going to see false pressure when you had zero chance for a lynch at the time. Also, only scum would so hard core lurk that they wouldn't even know what situation there wagon is in.

@Zdnek, the only thing that would make me think that you are scummy is your tunnel vision on tammy. It seems to me that you are almost exclusively attacking her/him. Also, your meta arguments are not very convincing in my opinion. That's partly because I don't put much stock in meta (especially related some one entirely different) and also because you have really only made one argument against tammy. If I don't buy that one argument (Sorry, I don't) you will never get me to vote for tammy. I want to see more varied scum hunting from you.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Yeah, only scum are going to see false pressure when you had zero chance for a lynch at the time. Also, only scum would so hard core lurk that they wouldn't even know what situation there wagon is in.

I very much disagree with this second statement. Lurker scum are far more likely to be aware of what's going on in the game while they are lurking.

[greenknight]

Me too...but that requires giving a fuck. I'll let you know if something piques my interest.

How about making yourself useful and voting AV then.

Green, I never said I'm not reading the thread closely, I said I'm not reading the 30 pages I missed out on. So suck it.

Actually I don't care if you read it or not, because you are scum.

Note: AV again trying to push the idea that his inactivity is the only reason he's considered scummy.

@Greenknight

– So you are inferring it’s scummy that Pine (no matter how dumb the claim timing / reasoning) has claimed a role highly speculated to be in the game and not currently counter-claimed. Do I have that right?

Remember Pine's initial RB claim in AFFC? Naturally I'm suspicious of another clumsy Pine claim since he has shown himself to be capable of playing dumb as scum. If pine is scum then he or one of his teammates needs to have the power, but it's certainly one that would be useful to both town and scum. Basically he doesn't get any townpoints for claiming and I view pine as mildly suspicious currently. As it stands though, he should not be lynched today because his claim commits him to providing hard information at a future time.

[Tammy]

Jesus effing Christ. Are you serious Zdenek? Remember how I told you if you're scum, then to keep this crap up? Guess you decided to follow that piece of advice.

You know a couple weeks ago I went head to head with an entire scum team in a finder battle and they didn't mischaracterize and twist the things I did as badly as you are doing right now.

Why is my play being compared to someone's whom I don't know? Are you that lost for how to scum hunt?

I know I said I wouldn't continue with this argument, but as you've now pulled out quotes and are again making up ridiculous crap I'm really not interested in having to answer for this crap from any other enterprising young idiotic scum hunters later. Nice way to continue the distraction and not actually hunt for scum. I really do hope you're scum, because if you're town you are making the biggest idiot out of yourself.

In 697, I'm not questioning other people's attacks. In fact, you should probably look up to the preceding paragraph to find that I did directly question his attack. But, in what you posted, I'm actually just wondering if he's found that it's more likely that scum won't read the rules. Don't know what more you can make of it. Asking the exact question I want to know.

In 582, yeah I questioned your attack directly. Yes, I said I thought the fear mongering quote was bad. But, nice way to pull out a statement that came at the end of me asking you several questions, in which you increasingly answered poorly about your suspicions on AV. Besides, me agreeing with you on one statement does not mean that I have to accept that your whole case and your entire suspicion is golden.

In 587, you seriously think it's too much to ask someone why they want to lynch someone they want to lynch? I'm not trying to get anyone to do my dirty work for me. I never need anyone to do my dirty work for me. I often ask people why they want to lynch people if they don't provide a reason...or if it's someone I don't have a read on...or I have a town read on. I'm not sure if you're aware, but this is a team game. I also like to keep myself out of confirmation bias. Considering I don't want to lynch Pine and never once indicated that I did, please tell me why asking someone why they want to lynch someone is me getting them to do their dirty work. Again, asking exactly what I want to know...why someone wants to lynch someone. Seriously, this isn't rocket science.

In 592, Norman wanted to vote Pine because of the language he used (IIRC...I'm not going to go back and look; I'll correct it later if I'm wrong.) I was asking him what makes Pine's language any different than trekker's who I thought Norman had a good opinion of. You know the exact fucking question I asked.

In 433 - who cares. That was in response to MoS being proud of himself for reading the thread. I asked him if he cared to make a contribution. What was I supposed to say? "MoS, you're scum because you read the thread and are proud of yourself for it?" Seriously dude, get a grip. I asked a question.

In 697 - Again who effing cares? I'm wondering why he's doing the things he's doing. I don't read people's minds and I don't pretend to. I don't tell people what they're doing because I don't know. And I'm not a complete jackass to think I do.

[MaguaofIllusion]

Zdenek

– you get a full response with quotes … you’ve made me do it … hope you are happy!

I haven't dodged anything. If that's what your comment was meant to mean, it's incredibly vague.

You keep trying to re-frame the discussion in every response in the manner that suggests you are absolutely correct and everyone who takes issue with you is crazy / scum.

Here's more evidence of what Tammy is doing, and since you seem to not believe that is something that scum would do, here's an example:

Compare Tammy's play to Darth Yoshi's play in Nexusville Mafia.
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=16263

Let’s being by saying the following – the basis of your ‘tells’ on Tammy is a single game of DarthYoshi’s meta? Have you looked to see whether Town DarthYoshi plays as demonstrated here? I doubt it very much since you very much look like you are trying to frame a playstyle as scummy. I’m not going to ask you to provide Tammy scum meta since I doubt very much there is any here on MS.

In fact given the following line from Post 310 I’m seeing some significant Cognitive Dissonance from you –

I can see where MaguaIll is coming from regarding Shadow1psc's play being similar to his play in AFFC, but I wouldn't wnt to lynh Shadow1psc because of this meta arguement.

So you agree that you can see where my other head is coming from in regards to Shadow1psc but ‘don’t want to lynch him for meta” while here you are pushing Tammy strongly on meta that isn’t even her own meta. That makes zero sense from an honest, Town scum-hunting perspective.

And let’s not mis-rep Zdenek – the point is not that I don’t believe scum would possible do what you are asserting.

I don’t believe you have proven at it is behavior MORE LIKELY to come from scum or that you have even proven your points are valid at all. Why the continued attempts to state things that are not accurate about my posting?

Tammy questioning other people's attacks:

You still have not established why questionining other player’s attacks is scummy on its’ own or in any way shown how Tammy is showing scum intent in here attacks.

Case in point – your examples are the following:

Post 697 – Do you think it was reasonable for Shadow1psc to use ‘Not reading or understanding the rules’ as a scum-tell. Furthermore you clipped the following lengthy post where Tammy explains quite clearly her problems with Shadow’s post in your ‘case’ here –

@Shadow1psc - I reread CoolDog, here and in the other thread, and I don't get why you think he's scum. I understand your original point. I've seen scum in almost every game I've been in feign ignorance about the setup or some aspect that they should definitely know about, so it's good to be a bit weary about it, but the thing is it looks like pretty genuine confusion, and that coupled with his posts in this incarnation, which look quite town, I don't see the accusations. I don't know why you keep harping on it either. A good number of your posts are harping on CoolDog, this situation, and anyone who hasn't acknowledged it. Are you basing your suspicion of him solely on his confusion in the original thread?

Post 582 – Once again you’ve clipped significant content where Tammy discusses AV and your read on him –

3. I'm confused. You say that suggesting an alliance isn't scummy but buddying can be. What I read in re-reading Avox was him suggesting a voting alliance, which you've just stated isn't scummy. You've interpreted it as buddying, but can you point out anything more than AV suggesting a voting alliance, which you've stated isn't scummy, to show that he's buddying?

I'd also like to you to explain your logic on the wagons. You say that scum will avoid getting on wagons early? *shakes head in mass confusion* What? Are you serious? Is that really what happens here at this site? I'm lost at your attempts at logic because it's my experience that it's the complete opposite, especially if there's an easy target around. It's a very few scum who won't jump into a wagon or come up with a perfectly reasonable reason to vote somewhere just to have a vote out to avoid the great mafia fundies who ridicule people who hold onto their vote. Not jumping into a wagon makes them stand out, which is what most FM do not want. Your logic is flawed. Day one is the easiest day for them to get on a wagon early if they want to because they can easily make up some crap reason to be there.

4. Why should I vote AVox? Because you say so? Give me a better reason than OMGUS. Give me a better reason than the crap you provided. Eh...I like my vote right where it is.

Furthermore – why is agreement with you on 1 point about AV indicates she has to have a scum-read on him? It’s pretty clear from what you clipped that she has serious concerns with your statements.

Tammy usinging questions to get other people to do her dirty work:

Aside from the fact that this isn’t a scum-tell or even valid (Tammy is certainly providing plenty of scum-hunting content independently) the examples you give ( Post 587 and Post 592 ) are examples of her scum-hunting via digging into the motives and statements made by others.

Tammy asking questions instead of taking stances:

Are you suggesting that Tammy is taking no stances with your selective quoting here?

You specifically snipped two small nuggests from Post 697 as ‘examples’ of asking questions and not taking stances while ignoring all the stances in that exact post –

1. She doesn’t think Cooldog is scum with reasonsing. Solid stance.
2. She thinks that Peregrine actually fits the profile of Shadow’s claimed scum-tell on Cooldog. Calls Peregrine a very likely scum slot. Solid stance.
3. States she dislikes Foxace’s self-vote and that his converstation prior regarding Norman’s self vote (excusing it as a Town tell) makes Foxace look disingenuous.
4. Take strong stance that trekker is a policy lynch and states she isn’t a policy lynch fan at all and that she feels like a hypocrite for even considering it. Solid stance and not something that makes any sense coming from a scum slot.
5. States she doesn’t believe scum like early policy lynches. Solid stance.

So I, in just the post you selectively snipped content from, have found 5 very solid stances and opinions provided by Tammy.

In fact at this stage I’m going to say it very much looks like you are scum looking to selectively harvest out of context snips of posts to bolster your case as opposed to actually scum-hunting.

Zdenek is also an acceptable lynch for me at this stage.

The fact that there is scum motivation in playing like this is plain to see, so the fact that you are attacking for attacking Tammy is ridiculous.

So given the fact that the examples provided don’t support a scum perspective I don’t think your attempt to dismiss out of hand my concerns as ‘ridiculous’ is anything other than scummy rhetoric.

I also want you to explain your town read her.

She’s posting solid, readable content. The questions she is asking make complete sense from a Town perspective … I’ve found myself nodding my head at various points she is making in her posts. Her stances are very much Town stances – being open to discussion in the course of scum-hunting but not afraid to share her opinion.

--

KK. Anything in particular you want me to say?

Who are your partners?

Good catch. I have no idea. It was a mistake. Read what you will

I’ll read it as lazy scum who actually isn’t interested in scum-hunting but is trying to ‘make points’ with short pokes you think look 'good'.

No, I just notice that out of all the other players you seem to enjoy poking the lurkers a lot. Not asserting that you are focusing on lurkers, but you tend to pay extra attention.

So what is the point of your comment then? Do you think it isn’t Pro-Town to constantly keep lurkers on their toes and pushing them for content? Do you think scum don’t lurk?

Coincidence? I have to say points 1 & 3 that you have against me are very circumstancial. 2 is fair enough.

Yes, it is complete coincidence that right after I call trekker, Skenvoy and yourself out (and note – you were not prodded in this time frame) and suddenly all three of post within 12 hours (and I screwed up the original link – it was Post 323 where I first called you out)

Trekker responds in 5 minutes with fluff.
You prod dodge 7 hours later.
Skenvoy prod dodges 10 hours later.

I doubt very much it just happens to be coincidence that all of you ‘suddenly’ found the thread without a Mod prod right after being collectively called out. A couple of you flip scum and I'm thinking we have confirmation that Norman is scum also. Because the most logical explanation for your collective sudden appearance is a Daytalk QT "Get your asses in here and post" prod from a partner. And Norman has already stated he thinks there is Daytalk despite Town having no reason to know existst or not.

But while we are on the subject of your ‘sudden appearance’ – please explain what you meant in Post 346 where you said the following –

Oh I'm on page 2 where the bandwagon on norman is and IMO he's probtown from meta

There is no bandwagon on Page 2 re: Norman. Page 2 starts with this post and ends with this post.

Norman has a total of 2 votes by the end of the page. Please explain how you are generating a ‘Town read’ on Norman from page 2 when he has 2 votes and Lemon had 5 a that stage.

That's the thing. You could be scum and still be calling out reasonable scumtells. I'm just finding things that differentiate you from the town scumhunter. Things like calling out lurkers all the time. Oh and its' funny you mention readable: does a readable argument make it more credible and more town?

So the one thing that ‘seperates’ me from Town who scum-hunt is calling out lurkers. Is that right?

Yes, a readable argument if it is logical is more credible and more Town than one that is not. That’s the basis of forums Mafia. Do you get that now? For the record – Tammy’s arguments are readable, logical and solid Town scum-hunting.

Jackal? Doesn't make much sense + hardcore sheep?

1. Care to point out why he ‘doesn’t make much sense’ instead of just making generalized fluff?
2. The irony of you calling out what is effectively one of our biggest lurkers while knocking me for calling out lurkers is not lost on me. In the fact that it’s a sign of Cognitive Dissonance.

--

@Greenknight

– In regards to Pine and AFFC I think you are mixing up Chesskid (who claimed RB) and Pine (who claimed JOAT, which he was). Please link me if I am wrong. Who suggested he was getting Town points for his claim? That’s a straw-man argument. His claim was terrible and anti-Town. Yet you were actively trying to infer it was directly scummy. Your wrapping it in meta doesn’t give me a feeling one way or the other.

[Shadow1psc]

A lot of day one is town pulling itself apart, and the smart scum will sit back and let it happen. My other theory is that scum are also much less likely to care about mechanics and reading first posts/rules because they being the informed minority already gives a sense of security imo. Now, you could say at this point then that why would someone on the scum team bother to question those rules, but then you have one of two things happening; a slip, or fake content.

Why CD and not me, then?

Cooldog is the person that stuck out due to the short dialog we had directly on day 1 of the original thread. Then the weekend hit, and I don't usually read on the weekends, so then there was the crash, so CoolDog was the one thing that stuck and irked me, even after the re-read. I assume you're not admitting to either fake content or scum slipping, (though please correct me if I'm wrong and we should lynch you :O) but the one game I've played with you, you were town and pretty consistent with how you're posting now.

[CooLDoG]

^I'm going to go read that original dialog. I'll comment on it. Funny how after 35 pages you case is basically on some dialog that happened around page -5.

[CooLDoG]

Okay, this is the short dialog that makes me scum:

Also, it is my impression that there aren't any "scum" in the normal sense of the term.

To me it sounds like this game is actually two games mushed into one big town. Look at the number of players in the game... 2x13=26. But does each faction have equal numbers? Or is it exactly like two minis mushed together?

[quote"shadow1psc He made two back to back posts, so I just combined them."]Good morning everyone. My usual play carries into this very interesting game, I probably won't post a lot fri-sun, but will put forth much effort during the regular week. Also, who in gods name let MaguaofIllusion happen? That's not cool. Cooldog, I would think that there's probably a scum in the normal sense, chaotic evil, and two different towns can win simultaneously should they be vanquished? My wincon implies this. In fact, It's more like there's two towns both split into two because of lawful/chaotic. One doesn't need the other to win, but it doesn't prohibit them from winning should the other fall.


POST2:

Also straight from the rules;

> Game Specific Mechanics
28) When a faction achieves its win condition, all members of that faction 'win' and then leave the game. Any surviving direct opponents also leave the game. The game then continues until the remaining two factions conclude their conflict.[/quote]
How am I scum from that? Like, really, how am I scum from that. I don't think I need to say anything more than that. In fact talking about win cons, does yours happen to be chaotic evil or lawful evil? And does your scum team happen to have 3 people (normal size for a mini normal [3/13]) in it.

[Shadow1psc]

^I'm going to go read that original dialog. I'll comment on it. Funny how after 35 pages you case is basically on some dialog that happened around page -5.

That's not what my case is based on, just what gave me initial suspicion, because lolday1. If you read any of my other posts concerning you, you'd find the other reasons why I placed my vote on you. Very little of it has to do with those first pages, even my last post says as much. It was a hint at either feigning ignorance, or faking content/discussion, and you never really picked up the ball into any relevant discussion the game held.

[greenknight]

@Greenknight

– In regards to Pine and AFFC I think you are mixing up Chesskid (who claimed RB) and Pine (who claimed JOAT, which he was). Please link me if I am wrong. Who suggested he was getting Town points for his claim? That’s a straw-man argument. His claim was terrible and anti-Town. Yet you were actively trying to infer it was directly scummy. Your wrapping it in meta doesn’t give me a feeling one way or the other.

Unfortunately half the history of AFFC is lost, but now that you mention it, I think it was actually chesskid that claimed and I did confuse them, yeah, which invalidates my meta argument. Claiming I was putting forward a strawman argument is nonsense though, since I was simply stating my opinion of Pine and not arguing with anyone about theirs...

[CooLDoG]

^I'm going to go read that original dialog. I'll comment on it. Funny how after 35 pages you case is basically on some dialog that happened around page -5.

That's not what my case is based on, just what gave me initial suspicion, because lolday1. If you read any of my other posts concerning you, you'd find the other reasons why I placed my vote on you. Very little of it has to do with those first pages, even my last post says as much. It was a hint at either feigning ignorance, or faking content/discussion, and you never really picked up the ball into any relevant discussion the game held.

Okay, Answer my questions then. Are you of evil alignment? And does your scum team have 3 people in it?

[Shadow1psc]

Yes, and yes.

[CooLDoG]

SCUMSLIP! Actually, that was sorta a joke. I'll get to whatever you posted about me when I have more time to read and formulate a post.