Jack of All Trades Mafia -- OVER!

[MrBuddyLee]

Hey everybody! Has anyone seen my rocket-powered rollerskates?

vote: BabyJesus

[MrBuddyLee]

unvote BJ, vote Fritzler

[MrBuddyLee]

Pretty sure Fritzler encoded something important in that thar post.

[MrBuddyLee]

unvote, vote: viper

[MrBuddyLee]

He's refining a strategy.

[MrBuddyLee]

cliff notes:
voting viper for lurking?
why not me, i lurk too
oh what the heck

vote viper

You're lucky viper's such an attractive target today...

[MrBuddyLee]

unvote, vote: Bogre

[MrBuddyLee]

pooky
harry potter
spamwise
tss
fuldu
coron
mos
armlx

all somewhat suspicious.

mlaker was scummy. From Bogre's words, I think he'll turn up pro-town. Just a hunch. His "you'll be sorry" act sounds genuine.

[MrBuddyLee]

Back with a beter post tomorrow when I get back in town.

ps. I'm not scum

[MrBuddyLee]

vote: Harry Potter

I believe there should be a wagon awaiting his response when he returns from vacation.

[MrBuddyLee]

I'm sure some ADD patient will off him before we get a chance to learn more, but it wouldn't hurt to get opinions on other people. Some folks seem in a bit of a rush to off bluemonick before he rats them out lol.

protip: hurrying to kill off the wackjob does not make you look more pro-town

[MrBuddyLee]

Hey Brian, of all the rest of the people in the game, who seems the most likely to be scum based on their posts?

[MrBuddyLee]

More like MrBuddyLee's last ditch attempt to get more information out of this day. Please point out in my posts where I want to NOT lynch bluemonick today.

I think he should be gone based on his lack of will to live and his claim of being scum, facetious or not. He's proven himself useless.

Your rush to end the day is noted. What's so terrible about being asked to voice your other suspicions for us to use should you not survive the night? Or are you planning to survive the night?

[MrBuddyLee]

I can think of no reason I was moved, so it's either random or a player's doing it.

[MrBuddyLee]

I'm guessing a townie moves people from office to office and a scum is destroying offices he thinks are useful to town.

[MrBuddyLee]

Back. Will read and post tonight...

[MrBuddyLee]

Not to divert from the BJ wagon, but rather to spur the kind of discussion we need to have in order to catch scum, I'd like to see everyone's thoughts on whether or not the following people have done anything pro-town yet in this game:

MBL
Harry Potter
Max
mmod
BJ
Pooky
Coron
Colonel Kurtz
zu_Faul

If calls for prods or replacements are appropriate, go for it.

There were also a lot of people accusing Spamwise of general badness, and I think everyone would benefit from people's analysis of Spamwise/mathcam's actions as well.

[MrBuddyLee]

vote: HarryPotter

[MrBuddyLee]

If he is town and we can settle our differences, it could turn out to be a strength.

Do you really believe you can settle your differences and gain much insight on BJ's alignment through a few night PMs? Your line of argument is not ringing true to me, Ibby.

[MrBuddyLee]

Not to divert from the BJ wagon, but rather to spur the kind of discussion we need to have in order to catch scum, I'd like to see everyone's thoughts on whether or not the following people have done anything pro-town yet in this game:

MBL
Harry Potter
Max
mmod
BJ
Pooky
Coron
Colonel Kurtz
zu_Faul

If calls for prods or replacements are appropriate, go for it.

There were also a lot of people accusing Spamwise of general badness, and I think everyone would benefit from people's analysis of Spamwise/mathcam's actions as well.

[MrBuddyLee]

this comment makes me sure BabyJesus is a lying liar scum.

Yes, I've voted between HP and BJ. Why, because I think both are scum, but can't work out which is the scummier. I think BJ is trying to throw his scum partner under the bus for a later attack.

I don't like the certitude of these statements.

[MrBuddyLee]

unvote, vote: BJ

[MrBuddyLee]

Actually, BJ, my PM doesn't reference my alignment either so your statement was quite possibly either a lie or a wisecrack that put you at risk of being killed. Your rolleyes don't amount to a hill of beans in that light.

[MrBuddyLee]

Still Know Jack (15):

armlx -- Jack Quinn, formerly Jack Kay
Uraj45 (replacing Colonel Kurtz) -- Jack Thomas
Coron -- Jack Evans
Fuldu -- Jack Hall
Harry_Potter -- Jack Adams
ibaesha -- Jack Johnson, formerly Jack Quinn
Mastermind of Sin -- Jack Lincoln
Max -- Jack Phillips
MrBuddyLee -- Jack Nelson, formerly Jack Fox
mystery meat of doom -- Jack Davis
PookyTheMagicalBear -- Jack Macdonald
spectrumvoid (replacing Shamrock) -- Jack Irving
mathcam (replacing SpamWise) -- Jack Kay, formerly Jack Quinn, formerly Jack Johnson
TheCesspit -- Jack Zimmerman
Yosarian2 -- formerly Jack Xavier

Again, I took the time to point out horrid lurkers yesterday:
MBL
Harry Potter
Max
mmod
BJ
Pooky
Coron
Colonel Kurtz (Uraj)
zu_Faul

From that list, please note that the two deceased were pro-town. This means one of two things about the remaining people:

A) They're town doing next-to-nothing during daytime to help find scum.
B) They're scum sitting back and not being hassled in the least while town picks itself apart.

Six out of the 15 remaining are megalurkers (not including me). It's surprising that scum would target lurkers like zuFaul, seeing as how lurkers are so easily attacked, they're not a threat, and killing an active poster would seemingly make more sense.

So perhaps zuFaul was killed for a reason related to the office he held.

I suggest we start today by dragging these lurkers into the sunlight, unless someone has investigative results they wish to share. If any of them are scum, we really haven't made their jobs difficult thus far.

[MrBuddyLee]

Will do.

[MrBuddyLee]

I'm thinking Ibby is scum. There's something about her attitude that's disconcerting. Vague threats without delivering on the specifics.

FOS: Cesspit

for helping scum narrow down the officer mover. I think it's more than likely that the office mover is protown.

[MrBuddyLee]

We've hit one scum and one SK out of 26 players, leaving:

armlx -- Jack Quinn, formerly Jack Kay
Uraj45 (replacing Colonel Kurtz) -- Jack Thomas
Coron -- Jack Evans
Fuldu -- Jack Hall
Harry_Potter -- Jack Adams
ibaesha -- Jack Johnson, formerly Jack Quinn
Mastermind of Sin -- Jack Lincoln
Max -- Jack Phillips
MrBuddyLee -- Jack Nelson, formerly Jack Fox
mystery meat of doom -- Jack Davis
PookyTheMagicalBear -- Jack Macdonald
spectrumvoid (replacing Shamrock) -- Jack Irving
mathcam (replacing SpamWise) -- Jack K, formerly Jack Q, formerly JackJ
TheCesspit -- Jack Zimmerman
Yosarian2 -- formerly Jack Xavier

There are five or six scum left, most likely. It's pretty amazing that we have like squat for night results. It's even more amazing that we're basically at panic time and yet you're all acting like this is a tea party.

Here's the discussion today, summarized:

Fuldu wonders what's in MBL's office
Coron throws out three suspicions with no evidence
MoS wonders what's in jack quinn's office
Ibby expresses suspicion of mathcam
spectrumvoid asks about lurker replacement
cam: defensive post
yos: explains bj's lynch, mild attack on cam re: bj
mathcam: 100% defensive response
spectrum: brief bj comment
MoS: back to office talk
Uraj: content post pointing at Coron
fuldu: more office speculation
coron: defends his indefensible record this game
yos: more on BJ
ibby: more on BJ, more suspicion of cam
MoS says "Interesting"
cesspit: office speculation
ibby: defensive post, reiterates cam suspicions
uraj: office talk
yos: office talk
armlx: suspicious of ibby

Lurking today:
HarryPotter
Max
mmod
Pooky

The lurkers are useless--they should be replaced immediately. cam, Mos and cesspit are not trying to find scum at all--they are probably scum. Everyone else just isn't trying. And I'd rather not lose, so if you're town, kick it up a notch please.

[MrBuddyLee]

The point that made me sure that BJ was scum was this

I think mathcam is scum and cesspit's protecting him for whatever reason. Cam's smarter than to lynch BJ primarily on that claim. He's a highly logical player and that reasoning simply doesn't cut it.

unvote, vote: mathcam

[MrBuddyLee]

MoS has just demonstrated that he actually reread the thread. In light of everyone else's apathy, I choose to see that as a pro-town move on his part. Nice work mang.

[MrBuddyLee]

No, no I'm not scum. Please explain to me, Fuldu, why trying to drag the (not one, not two) SEVEN megalurkers we have in this game into sunlight is a bad idea. And it's not all I've done--I've commented on the scumminess I see in cam, cesspit and Ibby, primarily due to their indifferent tone. I'm also surprised Yos is taking the impending loss as well as he is, and I'm thinking there's something not quite right with that either.

I'll admit that I'm losing faith in the possibility that town can win this game. But I'll tell you one thing--if you kill me as town, you'll have the same lurker problem tomorrow as you face right now. How do you plan on sorting the scum from the lazy then?

[MrBuddyLee]

NOW you want to come in here and act like you're all high and mighty and no one else is doing a fucking thing to catch scum?

a) no, I'm not acting like I'm high and mighty
b) correct, no one is doing a fucking thing to catch scum. they're playing pattycake about bj's death when it's pretty clear he himself was the one most responsible for it

[MrBuddyLee]

OK. Here are the people I've outposted in this game.

more than twice as many as
armlx
colonel kurtz
harry potter
mmod
pooky

more than
fuldu
max

as many as
coron

Those top five have lurked HIDEOUSLY this game. Fuldu and Max lurked pretty badly. You've called ME out for lurking three or four times, Ibby, even though I've posted more than all of those people. Now the question is, did you and the others who took potshots at one or two lurkers SELECTIVELY avoid a few other lurkers...

I will be back in a few with the answer to this question. I'm sure you're all in suspense.

[MrBuddyLee]

You have no excuse for how you behaved the first three days.

Actually, I was out of town for eight days and again for twelve days which is not the worst excuse in the world for only being #6 out of the remaining 15 posters. I thought the town was in good hands and I was wrong. Somehow I doubt a replacement would have helped much, so I'm who you're stuck with and I'm going to try to help pull us out of this death spiral.

And uraj, lighting a fire under this town's ass IS going to help. Read these people's posts from the perspective of "are they really looking in every direction for not only this scum but the next one and the next, or are they just looking for the most convenient lynches and distracting arguments?" I think most have been indifferent to the bigger picture.

[MrBuddyLee]

OK. Here are the people I've outposted in this game.

more than twice as many as
armlx
colonel kurtz
harry potter
mmod
pooky
fuldu
max
coron

I'll start with Ibby.

She's made zero comments on Pooky in three months and one day of posting. Pooky has made 14 posts in that time, exactly one of which contained anything remotely resembling logic.

Zero comments on armlx. He's also made 14 posts over that period.

Zero comments on Col. Kurtz, who made 12 posts before being replaced a few days ago. His last useful post was a month and three weeks ago.

Zero comments on mmod, who's also made 14 posts and one of any use in the last two months.

One comment on max, who did absolutely nada for three months before being replaced.

View all posts by Harry_Potter.

vote: Harry Potter

I believe there should be a wagon awaiting his response when he returns from vacation.

vote: Harry_Potter

Ibby's made seven posts attacking Harry Potter for his lurkiness. Legitimate case, but why single him out over the above five?

Ibby's made five posts in July, August and September attacking the lurkiness of moi, MBL. Again, reasonable, but why the distinction?

One possible conclusion is that Ibby is scum and is avoiding attacking Pooky, mmod, Kurtz, armlx, max, some or all of whom are her scumpartners. I am not drawing that as a firm conclusion at this point.

I think the same exercise should be run on a few other posters to see if any pattern emerges. Who's letting who skate?

[MrBuddyLee]

Coron, looks like you woke up about the same time I did.

Also, I love how I get "lurker pressure" after I STOP LURKING.

I didn't fully appreciate this line at the time, but it's spot on and made me crack up.

Let's catch us some scum.

[MrBuddyLee]

THE LYNCHING OF OUR ONLY SCUM

PART I: THE WAGON

Huh? I don't understand BMQ's argument against Yosarian and I

really

don't understand bluemonick's jump to that bandwagon. It seems like BMQ is suggesting that Yosarian's playstyle is different from past games, which I don't see, but if he'd care to elaborate a bit more, I might. But bluemonick is new enough that that can't be what he's saying. And the comment about "less of an investigator" and "more like 'laying back'" is, frankly, nonsense. Yosarian seems to me to be pushing as hard at the issues he finds important in this game as he usually does. I happen not to find the particular issue he's chosen to be especially noteworthy, but I can see the logic behind it. Coupled with the fact that he got himself blowed up, which seems likely to be a scum mechanism, I think this looks like a scummy pair of votes.

vote: bluemonick

Many things that I agree with.

unvote; vote bluemonick

Bogre claimed vanilla townie at like 4 votes or something.

Oh, I forgot about that.

Can we just lynch him, then?

I'm up for that. I really doubt a major change before deadline.

unvote; vote Bogre

I think that puts him at lynch -1. Anyone got a hammah?

I think these posts need to be reread and looked back on. Bogre claimed townie but yet he was still lynched by this two towards the end. Yosaiain2, that is really suspicious, you just saying, "Can we just lynch him, then?" Isnt that what a Scum wants to do, Lycnch Townies.

Ibaesha, you seem to be following the footsteps of Ibaesha as these posts I quoted were 3 posts right in a row. To me both of you are Suspiciosus right now, and seem to be working as Scum Partners. I already voted for Yosaiain2 so:

FOS: Ibaesha

And this is the main reason I voted for Yosaisin2 but didnt explain it then all of a sudden people start to bandwagon me for no apparent reason than "I seemed to agree with so and so to easily". Im sorry I just didnt explain myself better.

Ibaesha, you seem to be following the footesteps of YOSAIAIN2.........

More than likely..........ibaesha.
Because he's very Scumadeltic
You want a Claim? Im Scum. the Last Post was Committing Sucide already.
Btw, Nabbed by my Own Scum Partner.

bluemonick (12): Fuldu, ibaesha, PookyTheMagicalBear, spectrumvoid,

Fritzler, Brian McQueso

, TheCesspit,

Masterchief

, Colonel Kurtz,

BabyJesus

, Max,

the silent speaker

Anyone who doesn't think scum jumped on that wagon as quick as possible is a monkey's uncle. There was very little reason not to bus bluemonick.

Pooky, spectrumvoid, Cesspit, Kurtz, Max all piled on the bluemonick wagon with little ado. It was a wagon that evolved, if you believe in conspiracy theories, to take the heat off Colonel Kurtz who was one of the leading vote getters at the time.

Of the various reasonings for votes on bluemonick, Kurtz's was the oddest.

Also, note that while Fuldu made the case against bluemonick, it was Ibby who bluemonick zeroed in on and tried to implicate. It's such a bizarre transposition that you'd almost have to think that either he was genuinely pissed at his scumpartner or that he intentionally picked Ibby to "cleverly" conceal the fact that it was scumpartner Fuldu who really nailed him.

I'll be VERY surprised if neither of {Fuldu, Ibby} are scum. I'll also be surprised if both are.

PART II: THE AFTERMATH

The next day, no one talked about the strange goings on at the end of yesterday. I imagine it had been the hot topic amongst scum the night before:

(a)"Wow, he tried to set up pro-town Ibby, at least he went out half smart."
or
(b)"Wow, he tried to take you out, Ibbs. What a complete jackass."

If (a), I'd expect scum to have at least taken a poke at her the next day.

If (b), I imagine the gameplan for the next morning was to talk about something else entirely and see if people would just forget the nasty goings on.

What happened?

Kurtz
spectrumvoid
Yos
MoS
Cesspit
All come out quick with distractions. "Jeez, I thought Lordy was scum," followed by a long two-page dissertation on the office-blower-upper.

I feel terrible for Ibby if she got outed by her scumpartner, but it easily could have been WIFOM as well. The reaction the next day makes me more likely to believe, however, that her scumpartners pushed an agenda of distraction in the morning.

I am open to alternative interpretations.

[MrBuddyLee]

I believe I addressed every single one of those people in an earlier post. So your accusation is that because I didn't go after every lurker in this game, I'm scum with them? Good work there. That's heavy thinking. Please.

"earlier post" meaning an hour ago after I posted:

You've called ME out for lurking three or four times, Ibby, even though I've posted more than all of those people. Now the question is, did you and the others who took potshots at one or two lurkers SELECTIVELY avoid a few other lurkers...

So my accusation is that you treated Pooky, armlx, mmod, Col. Kurtz and Max with kid gloves, yes. While going after Harry and I five or more times each. Statistical anomaly. Do you just love Pooks too much to throw an FOS his way? You're probably not the only one...

[MrBuddyLee]

Why didn't you comment the morning after bluemonick tried to out you as his scumpartner? I'd have figured you'd be furious.

[MrBuddyLee]

Ok if that's what you believe, you guys Lynch me already.

What BLUE Monick says he wants to be lynched

seems scummy

I sense a claim

we're 3 from lynch does bluemonick realise that

vote: bluemonick

This is not typical Max behavior. Max looks for any excuse to hop aboard, not wait several days and three posting opportunities before reluctantly putting bm at -1. This is "Max is avoiding lynching his scumpartner" behavior.

I tend to think Loudmouth Lee(Max) is scum. Besides, the Paragon of Mafia Hunters would have stepped up to the challenge by now.

[MrBuddyLee]

Ok if that's what you believe, you guys Lynch me already.

What BLUE Monick says he wants to be lynched

seems scummy

I sense a claim

we're 3 from lynch does bluemonick realise that

vote: bluemonick

This is not typical Max behavior. Max looks for any excuse to hop aboard, not wait three days and three post opportunities before giving bm what he begged for. This is "Max is avoiding lynching his scumpartner" behavior.

I tend to think Loudmouth Lee(Max) is scum. Additionally, the Paragon of Mafia Hunters would have stepped up to the challenge by now.
================================================================

Coron's basically been invisible this whole time. And invisible is bad.

Vote: Coron
(three days pass)
Unvote Coron
He's talking now which is basically what I wanted.

Oh? I'd figure you'd want him to address the accusations you made when you voted him. Which he didn't. He just said he "must have had some other criteria" since he picked a subset of the BJ wagon, but he gave no further explanation. And you unvoted him for that? Maybe you never thought he was scum in the first place...

Vote ibaesha

. Here's why.
(buses scumpartner)

FOS: MrBuddyLee

. You seem to be pulling this word "indifferent" out of your ass, because it certainly doesen't describe any of the three people you mentioned. And if you think this fire and brimstone act of yours is helping anything you're quite wrong.

Finally, I'd really like to hear from LML and Pooky soon.

So you find ibaesha suspicious enough to vote for, and you FOS me, the person on her ass right now. That makes a load of sense. And then you DISCOURAGE me from getting into the game with "fire and brimstone"? I'd think you'd be excited to see a fellow scumhunter diving in with sleeves rolled up...

And then you send out a signal flare for backup from your other two scumpartners.

guys... heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelp...

Too funny.

[MrBuddyLee]

first of all, we got to figure out how many mafia groups there are and try to target them, breaking them up.

OK, was this quote from confirmed scum ever discussed? I'm gonna take this noob at face value, and hypothesize we probably started with two scumgroups of three and an SK for a total of 7/25 scum. Bluemonick's two partners are still alive and the other scumteam of three is intact.

I tend to agree, he's seems less of an "investagator" in this particular game and more like 'laying back'.

Im feel comfortable:

Unvote, Vote: Yosarian2

A noob choosing to single out a player like Yos based on a playstyle history he knows NOTHING about is curious.

To me both of you(Ibby and Yos) are Suspiciosus right now, and seem to be working as Scum Partners. I already voted for Yosaiain2 so:

FOS: Ibaesha

And this is the main reason I voted for Yosaisin2 but didnt explain it then all of a sudden people start to bandwagon me for no apparent reason than "I seemed to agree with so and so to easily". Im sorry I just didnt explain myself better.

This looks like a baldfaced lie. So why did he vote Yos in the first place? And why'd he single Yos and Ibby out? I'm sorely tempted to believe Yos and Ibby were bluemonick's scumpartners.

Watching Fuldu react to bluemonick's meltdown, (replacement calls out the fact there are multiple scum groups, then attacks his scumpartner) it almost looks like Fuldu spots the utter disaster about to happen and decides to launch the S.S. Bluemonickbus. It's really tough to say, but there are clearly some nervous reactions to bluemonick's implosion. (And bemused reactions from Pooks and other members of the opposite scumteam.)

I am always against townspeople adopting the "alright, then lynch me" attitude when they have a case against them. I think this is scummy. Since my earlier vote didn't count because I screwed up the tags...

unvote thesilentspeaker, vote bluemonick

This is scummy behavior by Kurtz(mathcam). He implies bluemonick is a townsperson giving up, and says it's scummy and votes to lynch. I'm guessing he's on the opposite scumteam with LML and Pooky.

And there's this gem, just about the only question Max asked anyone, smashed in between flippant remarks.

Yos Have you lost your role now your room is gone

I'm saying did your role change when you moved room

Is there any specific reason you think it'd help if I say what my role is at the moment?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Max shows an unusual curiosity here--as if he had been the bomber or, less likely, a partner of Yos's who knew what his role was.

Worse, Yos is in the process of grilling lordy for fishing (Yos grilled Spamwise for fishing earlier as well) yet Yos treats Max here like a country gentleman despite the utter blatant nature of Max's fishing attempt.

So with five-ish scum out there on two separate teams, they're looking to knock off easy townies but they also really need to knock off members of the opposite scumteam before they get hit themselves. If there really are two scumteams, we're not at as much risk of massive scum-led wagons since all five of them aren't voting as an aligned unit.

In sum, I think the most likely scum are:
Pooky
Max(LML)

quite possibly:
Kurtz (Uraj)
Yos
mathcam
ibby or Fuldu

Apologies for the scattershot, but there's a lot to work with.

Ibby, I'm not in a voting mood right now, I'm just gettin started understanding this game.

Fuldu, rather than take potshots at my fluff from June-August, how about responding to some of the ideas I've laid out here tonight?

[MrBuddyLee]

Still waiting for that vote, MBL.

And if Uraj is scum, he's not bussing me. However, he is defending his partner Fuldu.

Why wait when you could be commenting on all this scattershot bullshit I'm chucking out there?

Two scumteams. Whaddaya think? And who looked nervous as bluemonick was imploding and implicating you?

What do you think of Yos?

[MrBuddyLee]

Cam,

Two scumteams? Sound about right? Do you see any scumhunting or wagoning behavior that has the hallmark of 2,3 instead of 5 scum remaining?

Do you find Uraj/Kurtz scummy?

[MrBuddyLee]

I also don't like MBL's behavior as he seems to be posting a lot of "here is what so-and-so said/did" The result is that he ups his post count without actually saying anything.

Hmh, so posting my observations on relationships between people is "not actually saying anything". Pointing out deathmonick's comment on multiple scum groups isn't adding to the game? Noting Max's behavior is different from usual, or that people NOT WAGONING MAX is WAY different than usual... that's not helpful either?

If you're town, maybe let us townies know what kind of posts you find helpful, cause you sure don't lead by example.

[MrBuddyLee]

I know he's wrong about some of his suspicions; he's certanly wrong about me

You know, eh? Which other suspicions do you KNOW I'm wrong about, and why? I was under the assumption that you're in a powerless office.

[MrBuddyLee]

I took the words literally. You're generally a person who chooses the words he means to choose. Therefore I suspect you know I'm wrong about more than one of my accusations.

Your sentence was two parts. The second part said I'm wrong about you. The first part wouldn't say the same exact thing as the second, so it's implying that you know I'm wrong about other people's alignments.

It may be nitpicking, but it feels like you slipped there. I might not be so paranoid if it wasn't for bluemonick's and Max's odd behavior towards you.

[MrBuddyLee]

HarryPotter, what do you think of bluemonick's actions in the days leading up to his lynch? Who do you think he was implicating, and do you think he was telling the truth about there being multiple scum groups?

Armlx, what do you think about Max's "un-Maxlike" actions this game. What do you think about the fact that scum didn't try to wagon him at all?

[MrBuddyLee]

Of all the things in this game to discuss right now, the thing you find the pressing need to comment on is MBL's replies to your itty bitty questions?

Pretty certain you're scum now.

[MrBuddyLee]

Here are MoS's posts since I posted a series of comments on Max, Pooky, and ibby/yos's reactions to bluemonick trying to take them down:

Huh? What did I do?

Yeah, i don't know where armlx got that logic. Up until the last 2 paragraphs it was at least somewhat logical, but that last stuff is ridiculous.

Out of curiousity, what makes you think that there is even a question of multiple scum groups or not? In any large game, I go into the game assuming that we have multiple scum groups, because I have yet to see one where we didn't, unless that was the premise of the entire game (which it isn't in this instance).

Since you're asking questions, I've got a few for you.

As nice as it is to get complimented, you failed to actually comment on my suspicions. Do you agree with my assessment of TheCesspit? Do you believe he's scummy as well?

I noticed you mentioned my name somewhere in this mammoth of a post, and i was wondering if you could point out what you were referring to me about, since I don't understand.

He's clearly avoiding the topics because his scumpartners are involved and it's risky to talk about your scumpartners.

The answers to his questions anyhow:

1. There could just as easily be one big scum group and an SK. I've seen it before. So when bluemonick rattled on, I thought it was significant, and people's reactions to that (ignoring it) were also significant.

2.

cam, Mos and cesspit are not trying to find scum at all--they are probably scum.

I also commented on Cesspit's scumminess twice earlier in the thread. So a negative nineteen points to MoS for not reading the thread to see that I've already said Cesspit is scummy three times. Scum is too lazy to read the thread. But then again, so's this whole damned town...

3. You had no response the next day to the bluemonick thing. Instead you helped move the conversation in another direction entirely, which appeared to be an attempt to bury whatever bluemonick had screwed up the sunset before.

[MrBuddyLee]

I made the bluemonick case in my past few posts, but to get the full impact you need to go back and read the thread from the moment he entered the game.

Same with Max... read his posts and people's reactions to him and give your impressions. It's just... not right.

More in depth on Cesspit to come.

[MrBuddyLee]

unvote, vote: Pooky

[MrBuddyLee]

Ibby, lousy reading comprehension hon.

This is scummy behavior by Kurtz(Uraj). He implies bluemonick is a townsperson giving up, and says it's scummy and votes to lynch. I'm guessing he's on the opposite scumteam with LML and Pooky.

If you're scum, I suspect you and Pooky are on opposite teams.

[MrBuddyLee]

And while I accuse you of poor reading comp, I should be fair and accuse Pooks of not reading the thread at all. He's been less helpful than Max this game.

[MrBuddyLee]

Alright, when you were bitching me out for not even FoSing Pooky, what were you implying?

So who do you think I'm scum with again?

I was implying that you're not playing to win as town... ignoring so many obvious scumbags. And I'd say if anything it's most likely you were on the bluemonick scumteam after the way he went after you.

And yeah, I suppose Dr. Pooks can tell us now what he's diagnosed and we can see if he's been studying his Forensic Pathology.

[MrBuddyLee]

Bluemonick used a craplogic attack on me and was a total idiot who got run up for doing so. I actually found it humorous that he could've possibly believe anyone would fall for his BS. He fell apart when his attack on me failed. It's just as humorous that you're attempting to draw this connection from something so ridiculous.

If it was that ridiculous, why'd you try to sweep it under the rug instead of addressing it?

[MrBuddyLee]

Actually I did miss that because it took you a full day and night and a prodding from another player to address it. You get like 1/4 credit for that, and you know it.

Let's lynch Pooky and get this over with. Or Max/STD. How about if each of your scumteams debates for five minutes about which one should go first. Start... NOW.

[MrBuddyLee]

So basically, it was alright for you to do nothing because you were gone. And because I didn't respond to this topic WHILE I WAS AWAY, I don't get credit for it. EVEN THOUGH, I responded IMMEDIATELY upon my return.

Nice hypocracy there pal. I'm starting to really wonder what you're trying to pull here...

unvote; vote MrBuddyLee

Absolutely. Terrible. Argument.

AGAIN, I'll remind you that my problem with you and other scummy people was that the next day after bluemonick's implosion, you immediately pranced off to another topic, ignoring what he had said. Your vacation argument is a bunch of hooey, because you posted TWICE in that new day before posting your vacation post, and BOTH of those posts of yours completely ignored the goings on the day before.

So my comments aren't the least bit hypocritical. I'll tell you what, if you really think I'm the most likely person to be scum, you're semi-retarded, because the winning play for scum at the start of today was to sit on their ass and let this lazy-ass town lynch, um, let's see, probably Harry Potter. Nice that you jumped on and off Pooky in the span of 4 hours, that wasn't suspect or anything.

And cam, I'm happy to be an ass in this game if it helps town win. Clearly the game of pattycake D1-D3 wasn't getting the job done. Time to go back and see who's responded to the recent post barrage and who's decided to wait it out in cryo-freeze.

[MrBuddyLee]

This was a comment made while MBL had his vote on Bogre and the hammer had not yet been placed on the lynch. If you didn't think Bogre was scum, why didn't you unvote, MBL?

Because we were a day away from deadline and nothing was happening, as best I can recollect. The vote was 11-6 and if I had switched over to Spamwise it'd have been 10-7. I suppose it could have made a difference, but the intensity of my guess that Bogre was town was low and its factual backing was minimal.

I see I'm attracting some votes, which is interesting. Let's take a look at the reasons for voting:

The more I hear MBL talk, the more convinced I am that his posts are of no value to the town and that he's spouting utter BS.

Vote MrBuddyLee

Attention remaining town: Are "posts are of no value" and "spouting BS" what you'd consider to be good reasons for a vote? Are they reasons that make it sound like Uraj really thinks I'm scum? Not particularly--he's either scum hopping on what he sees as a safe upcoming opportunity or lazy, annoyed town. Also, is it reasonable to find that my posts have had

no

value to town?

If you're not willing to put your vote where your mouth is, then you obviously don't believe what you're saying.

Hmm? Why would someone not believe what they're saying? Oh! Because they are SCUM!

unvote; vote MrBuddyLee

So I'm not voting for Ibby right now because... I've found Pooky and Max scummiest. And she thinks I'm scum cause... I'm not voting her. Is THAT a reasonable reason to vote someone? Not particularly.

And Ibby, the part where you say I don't believe what I say is just silly. There are five scum or so out there. I intend to try to point out all of them before I die. I can only vote for one, does that mean I don't believe the cases I lay against the other four? Ridiculous statement by you, and I don't care if cam thinks I'm an ass for saying so. It's true--it's ridiculous.

[MrBuddyLee]

Well, care to contemplate out loud for us, then?

Who do you think is scum? Why? Etc. C'mon Pooks. Let's hear it.

I mean, do you realize that MBL is accusing us of being scum together? I know that's not true. You know that's not true, yet you're allowing him to spread such foolish notions without a word?

This statement reeks of "Hey Friend o' Mine not on my scumteam, MBL doesn't think we're on the same scumteam but ima pretend he does in an attempt to get you to defend me."

Mind you, Ibby just voted Pooky 12 minutes earlier. Does this post of Ibby's read like the post of someone who just decided that Pooky was scum?

And Pooky's laughable response:

i wanna see who listens to him

If Pooky really wanted to see who listened to me, he'd not have sent up the flag that he was watching people's reactions to my posts. He'd have defended himself and then watched who at least listened to what I had to say. The fact that he announced his "strategy" defeated the strategy, meaning it was just a load of BS he came up with that sounded ok.

Spectrumvoid, you're thinking Ibby and I are scummy... can you please elaborate on why you find me scummy? It's not Ibby's argument that swayed you, because you said her argument about my failure to vote was not very strong.

[MrBuddyLee]

Didn't almost everyone prance off to a different topic? I remember when I was doing my read to catch up in the game when I replaced that I was pretty surprised at how little air time that had received.

I don't find Uraj/Kurtz more scummy than anyone else at the moment, but I also don't have my game notes with me to look back at things I've found scummy about them so far.

Cam, what do you think of Kurtz/Uraj at this point?

Also to cam and others interested:
It only took a few people running off on another topic to drag people's attention away from the bluemonick/max behavior. It even tricked me--I followed the shiny ball of foil they laid down, so I'm not saying others weren't tricked too. But as you've stated a day and a half later, that stretch of posts was FULL of content, and some people started off the new day with what either ignored it entirely (showing a lack of awareness/curiosity in findng scum) or a malicious intent to bury it by distraction.

Don't you think scum would have discussed that fiasco and agreed that the plan was to distract from it the next day? And if so, which posts at the start of D3 look fishy to you?

[MrBuddyLee]

Now then: Let's see.

Why didn't you comment the morning after bluemonick tried to out you as his scumpartner? I'd have figured you'd be furious.

I figured his entire play was idiocy, including when he went after me. I also knew he wasn't referring to me since I am -not- his scumpartner. Why would I be furious when I know that's not the case? I was looking at Fuldu as the best possibility there.

Do you believe this defense or not? Yes or no is fine.

No, I do NOT believe that defense. It's not a reasonable explanation for your silence at the start of D3 on the topic. If you really thought bluemonick outed Fuldu as his scumpartner at sunset, why didn't you comment on it at sunrise?

[MrBuddyLee]

vote: Harry Potter

I believe there should be a wagon awaiting his response when he returns from vacation.

Please explain this vote and why you placed it mid-way through the bluemonick wagon.

OK. Here is bluemonick's post history at the moment I placed that vote:

I tend to agree, he's seems less of an "investagator" in this particular game and more like 'laying back'.

Im feel comfortable:

Unvote, Vote: Yosarian2

I think these posts need to be reread and looked back on. Bogre claimed townie but yet he was still lynched by this two towards the end. Yosaiain2, that is really suspicious, you just saying, "Can we just lynch him, then?" Isnt that what a Scum wants to do, Lycnch Townies.

Ibaesha, you seem to be following the footsteps of Ibaesha as these posts I quoted were 3 posts right in a row. To me both of you are Suspiciosus right now, and seem to be working as Scum Partners. I already voted for Yosaiain2 so:

FOS: Ibaesha

And this is the main reason I voted for Yosaisin2 but didnt explain it then all of a sudden people start to bandwagon me for no apparent reason than "I seemed to agree with so and so to easily". Im sorry I just didnt explain myself better.

Did that(lynching Bogre) work out on the Town's side for the Better or Worse?

Yes I know this, but I wanted to know, from your perceptive, Why was you still targeting Bogre? After all, he did turn out a Innocent, seems like your sorta dodging around the questions.

That series of posts earned him eight votes. Forgive me for finding that response a bit disproportionate. Or as MoS said:

well that was a fast bandwagon...

So yeah, I feel quite justified in my behavior that day. For the record, here's the votecount at the point where I decided that Harry Potter needed a wake-up call:

bluemonick (8 ): Fuldu, ibaesha, PookyTheMagicalBear, spectrumvoid,

Fritzler, Brian McQueso

, TheCesspit,

Masterchief

[MrBuddyLee]

Sorry, I just can't get past this:

WHY WOULD IBBY CALL ON A PLAYER OF UNKNOWN ALIGNMENT, WHO SHE JUST VOTED FOR, TO SAVE HER?

[MrBuddyLee]

Update:

Two more stated reasons for voting MBL. Fuldu's, which I missed cause it was a week or so ago:

MrBuddyLee has spent the entire game complaining about lurkers, player apathy, and the incoherence of everyone else's arguments without bothering to offer any real substance of his own, I'm increasingly convinced that he's scum.

Looks like a decent reason on its face, but ultimately it's not anything more than a shoddy lurker lynch. "MBL demands better from people but doesn't deliver, so he's a hypocrite and therefore scum." Pretty weak, but the best of the four reasons currently on my wagon.

You know, the more I read over his posts, the more I think that MBL is scum trying to lead the town.

vote Mr Buddy Lee

MBL is trying to mistate Ibby's case against him. I read it over and I feel there was more there than voting him for not voting her.

Actually, Harry, her 98th post states her reasons for voting me, and that's all there is. She's pitching a bizarre fit because I'm prodding at her but won't vote for her. She's since listed more reasons, but that was the stated reason at the time, and her vote should be viewed in that light. As suspect.

Ibby:
You and I are going to have to agree to disagree here. I think your behavior has been exquisitely bizarre in this game, particularly your demanding that I vote for you, your vote/appeals to Pooky and asking me to answer questions and then telling me you're tired of hearing the same answer over and over again. Note I didn't go after you for offing BJ, cause I think it made sense. I am not willy-nilly out to get you, I am bringing legitimate observations to light. And yeah, you act fairly scummy, especially that Pooky stuff. I don't think I've ever played with the two of you before, but when MoS cozied up to Pooks in my first big game, I called him out on it. Nothing's changed, and I'll call you out on it too, cause it's weird.

I agree I haven't played the cleanest game, but something just clicked D4 after we killed BJ and I looked at the state of the game and said DAMN THIS SUCKS. So I'll try not to get lynched, but more importantly I want to be right about who the scum are. The people voting for me are doing so for pretty crappy reasons, but it's heartening to see that a few have the right read. Unfortunately, a few of those are people I think may be scum.

[MrBuddyLee]

Pushing a strong case against someone, while voting someone else based on a weaker case is flat out scummy.

Once again, explain your opportunistic bandwagon votes on Harry Potter and BJ yesterday. You claimed the Harry Potter wagon was opportunistic, why did you join it?

As far as the Pooky thing, you had -already- made posts that focused on me being scum. You had already pushed me hard, so acting like you suddenly find me scummy for -that- is silly. You can add it to your other suspicions but don't act like you suddenly decided I was scummy when I did that.

1. I think the cases against Pooky and Max/LML/STD are stronger, and I've made that very clear. Since neither was posting, it's not like I could have a conversation with them about it, so I've been prodding the next few in line ABOUT them. Including you, cam, Yos, Uraj/Kurtz, Fuldu. You get more follow-up questions because your responses have been the most curious.

2.

@Baby Jesus- you jump all over with your votes every game is true, but normally your votes start out looking random and then ending up serving a purpose. Your voting here just doesn't have that flavor. The more I look at how things happened,

the more positive I am that you are the scum buddy bluemonick was talking about

.

confirm vote Baby Jesus

That's my explanation for my Harry vote. Harry was COMPLETELY wrong there, particularly the bolded part, since BJ was the

10th

vote on bluemonick, made NO other comment on bluemonick, and thus it's unfathomable that Harry thought BJ was the scumpartner bluemonick said "nabbed" him. Simply not fathomable. Harry was either terribly careless town there or lazy scum inventing a TERRIBLE reason to pile on.

And my BJ vote was because of what spectrumvoid pointed out about the PMs, which was very valid.

3. I found you scummy for your actions before, and I find your Pooky vote/appeal scummier.

[MrBuddyLee]

It almost as if he's setting her up for the lynch so he can come back tomorrow and play the "I must not be scum, no scum would argue so hard for the lynch of a townie" card.

I'm not setting her up for a lynch. I'm not voting for her. Your argument falls flat. What I'm doing is getting the people I find suspicious to talk more about their actions and about other suspicious people, in hopes it'll help find scum. It's certainly an improvement on how things have gone the past few days.

What're your takes on my suspicions of Pooky and Max/STD, Harry? Did you find Ibby's interaction with Pooky normal? Do you find Pooky's reapparance and explanation for his lurking pro-town?

[MrBuddyLee]

spectrumvoid, quit pushing Ibby's false argument and pretending it makes me scummy.

Again, I think Pooky and Max/STD have been scummiest. As I just reread the thread, I realized that mmod should be on there (last observation of another player August 8th) and only one person's called him out as well. If anything YOU'RE the one who's scummy for being too lazy to look these things up on your own. If you hadn't made that comment about pro-town PMs I'd wonder a lot more about you...

I can criticize Ibby all I want, find her play suspicious, and still have nagging doubts about her alignment. I DO NOT HAVE TO VOTE FOR HER. ME VOTING FOR HER IS NOT SCUMMY. I CAN CONTINUE TO PRESS HER WITH QUESTIONS IF I WANT. END OF STORY.

[MrBuddyLee]

I'm starting to get that feeling, those poor kitties. I'm also getting that reverse psychology feeling my mom used to use to get me to eat spinach.

[MrBuddyLee]

Seriously, it's highly unlikely that was a bluff. spectrumvoid would have to have balls of steel to make that leap of faith if all she had to work with was a scum pm. Guessing wrong would be a death sentence.

[MrBuddyLee]

I've been trying to move on, looks like it may have been agreed to.

[MrBuddyLee]

Three people out of fifteen have commented on mmod. WTF?

[MrBuddyLee]

Does lurking = scummy? I think possibly, but not definitely.

FOS: whoever is jumping on this wagon.

His last three posts there (completely useless) were August 31st, September 9th, September 21st. Did you even read his post history to see when he last contributed anything of substance, spectrumvoid?

Those are mmod's total contributions for the past month and a half, and you want to let that slide?

mod

, please replace mmod.

[MrBuddyLee]

As shitty as many people are in this game, Pooky takes the cake. He last appeared to tell us his master plan two weeks ago, then disappeared.

It's clear this town doesn't have a clue. If Pooky was town, he'd see that and offer guidance based on the amazing three days of info he's dredged up with his "Dr. House" plan. But he doesn't offer a thing, and it's not like holding back is helpful at this point. If we lynch wrong today, we're pretty much fucked.

I say we lynch Pooky. Based on his behavior, there's almost no way he's pro-town. I do want to hear from mmod first.

[MrBuddyLee]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

you're 100% wrong.

I reread a week or so ago, expecting that since you were SO convinced, MoS, that Cesspit's utter scumminess would leap off the pages at me and I'd stab him in the heart personally.

Instead, he just appeared a tiny bit scummier than the rest of you, and probably less scummy than a few including Pooky.

If it tickles you, maybe I'll read again and post details of my modest indifference on the issue.

[MrBuddyLee]

So you're saying Pooky's actions look protown then. Nice.

[MrBuddyLee]

Guys, please isolate MoS's posts and do a search on "Pook".

Classic avoidance and/or protection. Look at the energy he's putting into attacking Cesspit while COMPLETELY ignoring the serious Pooky problem we have.

MoS, your opinion on Pooky this game please. Do you buy the "Dr. House" thing? Why have you avoided addressing the Pooky issue until being forced to discuss it?

[MrBuddyLee]

That was a month and a half ago...

[MrBuddyLee]

ps. MoS should know that Pooky's been at school in the U.S., at least as far as I know, since early September. So the China excuse really doesn't hold.

[MrBuddyLee]

MoS, you demand that I address your accusations of The Cesspit and yet you refuse to touch Pooky despite being asked to address him specifically several times. I hope you realize how scummy that appears.

Please share with us your take on Pooky.

[MrBuddyLee]

you do realize how hypocritical you sound right?

You do realize that if you're town you've done less than zero to help win this game? You've been an utter hindrance.

Which is why I'm pretty certain you're scum.

[MrBuddyLee]

I'm gonna read the cesspit's post history without looking at mos's comments, then see how the observations line up. The hyperaggressive way you're pursuing him on what I recall as slight evidence makes me very suspicious, but we'll see.

And you clearly have no interest in addressing the Pooky issue.

I know that pooky will come through eventually

You take it that he's town on faith? What the fuck is that?

[MrBuddyLee]

OK, so every time I read this thread I just get more and more pissed.

Why? Because I know there are about ten townies left including me, and for the life of me I can't fathom why they aren't trying to find scum. Here's a rundown, focusing on today (the past 21 days):

armlx -- minimal content but somewhat genuine suspicions of ibby, then cam and MoS.

mystery meat of doom -- after lurking for three months, his analysis is so terribly off base it looks like he spent 30 seconds skimming a 45-page long game. his post is the MS equivalent of asking the governor for a two-day stay of execution.

PookyTheMagicalBear -- I will be FURIOUS if Pooky turns up town this game. He's done absolutely nothing, I repeat, NOTHING pro-town. And smirks when accused of being scum rather than making any kind of legitimate defense. How can a town ignore such bullshit defenses? They can't, and if he's town, all he's done is distract scumhunters rather than help them.

Coron - Disappeared and posted NOTHING for 1 1/2 months, then explode with activity and now has disappeared for another three weeks without a post. Went after Ibby, MoS and mathcam who happened to be the three who kind of led the BJ lynch. Could be a valid observation or the easy "fly under the radar" observation. He claims to like to sit back and figure out who scum is. After disappearing for 1 1/2 months and again for 3 weeks it's hard to believe he's really trying.

Harry_Potter - Only four suspicions this entire game: Bogre, Kurtz, BJ and MBL. Curiously, the votes were 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd on those players, so even though Harry seems like a follower this game, he's been pretty early on the wagons. I could see hapless townie.

TheCesspit - Piddles around with office talk start of day. Owns up to bad vote on BJ. Good point to Coron on Coron's failure to halt the lynch. Then says pretty much nada for three weeks besides a Pooky vote that I can't argue with. Hopped off the BJ lynch yesterday because he didn't like the smell of the wagon, particularly Ibby and Harry.

Uraj45 -- entered the game, made some logical points. Hasn't posted in two weeks. My view of him is tainted because he's still voting me and completely misinterprets my intent in exploding today: he thinks it's to obfuscate when it's actually to light a fire under this town. But his comments to sv and ibby and about Coron are proportional. He has completely avoided probing many of the game's scummiest players, though, which is a major black mark against him.

Fuldu - Spectacularly, the only people Fuldu has expressed suspicion of today have been MBL and Cesspit. With all the mention of other scummy people he's bought none of it and maintained his dogged focus. His last three posts were dedicated to explaining the Columbus Day holiday.

spectrumvoid - Finds pretty much everyone scummy and posts about it. I feel genuine frustration from her about this shitty town. Absolutely positively protown vibes to me, especially when you add on the "Role PM" thingy.

mathcam - last four vote/suspicions: BJ, max, mmod, cesspit. Seems to be looking for a wagon with traction. Shows sound judgment on a few of today's issues but seems to be avoiding other major ones, like the Pooky thing.

Save The Dragons - Replacing Max must suck, starting one foot in the grave. Decent votes but seems to be happy with any lynch, which is weird. Isn't really trying to get the right one.

Yosarian2 - A ton of posts, but a ton of fluff and speculative stuff about offices. His only two major suspicions today have been Max and Cesspit. August 6th, August 24th, September 9th observed that Pooky was lurking but has never followed up on it an ounce. VERY unlike Yos, who is normally intolerant of lurkers from what I've seen. He likes to know people's alignments, and his indifference to Pooky and mmod bothers me. If Yos were town, I'd expect him to be much more pissed off about the state of this game.

ibaesha - Went on an exquisitely omgus rampage after my initial and followup posts probing her. Her 90th post of the game, buddying up to Pooky, the player she just voted for, creeps the hell out of me. And I don't use terms like that lightly because I ordinarily view hyperbole as scumtells. But yeah, I find it really difficult not to see that as a slip, especially considering how scummy Pooky's been this game and considering he had just dumped his load of manure "Dr. House" post on us. After dropping her issue with me for the time being, she's voted mmod and laid the groundwork for a cesspit vote. Meh.

Mastermind of Sin - Yesterday: Calls BJ his play of the day, then calls Cesspit his play of tomorrow for trying to derail the BJ lynch. Then today QUOTES that Cesspit derail of the BJ lynch as EVIDENCE towards a

vote: Cesspit

. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Since then, lots of activity. Dogged focus on Cesspit, except that he's willing to unvote and move over to mmod for a few days, then back to Cesspit after mmod "promises" to post something. And sprinkles some goodies on MBL for absolutely positively being Cesspit's scumbuddy. Protection of Pooky. AND, (this is interesting as hell) after the mislynch of BJ that he helped drive, today his first five posts are about obscure arcana about offices as if he's trying to distract from the mislynch. Expresses no curiosity about whether ibby or cam's push on BJ was genuine. COMPLETELY ignores that BJ mislynch at the outset today.

I'm probably missing one or two, but I'm wagering on the five scum remaining being:

Pooky, MoS, Fuldu, STD

, one of {

ibby

, mmod, cam, uraj, Yos, coron} in that order of suspicion.

[MrBuddyLee]

lmfao, so you disagree with EVERYTHING in my post from start to finish, MoS? I gave my opinions of all 14 people... surely you concur on a few?

The fact that you find the need to blanket disparage me is yet another good reason why you're probably scum, MoS. Town see things in greys, not black and white.

I agree that other people still need to step it up, but god MoS you're looking worse by the minute. Your tapdance on Pooky is getting more amusing with every defense of him you post.

Sad thing is, I have a feeling you'd defend him blindly if you were town too...

Oh, and your claim that I've singled out Pooky amongst the lurkers is absurd. Please recall my attacks on all lurkers yesterday and earlier today, including posts with details on how each lurker differs in their scumminess. Pooky just happens to be the one who, oh I dunno, FABRICATED a complete fake strategy to cover for his lurking. The Dr. House thing is classic Pookyscum, from what I've seen.

[MrBuddyLee]

Liar.

[MrBuddyLee]

Also, ibby, I hope you'll forgive me if I don't wipe your slate clean because of your recent posts. I put a lot of thought into my previous post, and particularly the order of likelihood that various people are scum. You were 5th in my eyes, and if you can't handle that, tough cookies.

Pooky has played a ridiculously scummy game. His latest post attempts to place the burden of scumhunting on me (and the rest of us) rather than sharing it--he basically says we need to bring the cases to him. I see nearly no way to reconcile his behavior this game with township.

MoS has been truly bizarre today. He defends the indefensible in Pooky. He focuses on Cesspit to nearly no end, though Cesspit in my eyes isn't anywhere near as scummy this game as Pooky or Max/STD. MoS is so willing to proclaim Cesspit scum that he's already assigning scumpartnership to me despite the fact that I called out Cesspit as moderately scummy several times yesterday and today before MoS started freaking out on him. MoS is completely and utterly wrong about me, and it therefore wouldn't surprise me in the least if he was way off base on Cesspit either.

STD and Fuldu seem to be looking for convenient next lynches and not really addressing the big picture as much. STD appears to have read me correctly, but that could be as much appeasement as anything, and I'm not willing to trust his intentions in clarifying my points. Fuldu ignores some players who just shouldn't be ignored, and that's not really a pro-town hallmark right now. He's exclusively pushing two lynches I have little faith in, to the exclusion of even remarking on other issues. Looks like selective avoidance.

So yeah ibby, I still find you suspicious largely due to the way you interacted with Pooky. Not much I can say... your scumhunting success today will tell everyone a lot more about your alignment.

[MrBuddyLee]

Pooky, I've asked you specifically what info your "master plan" has dredged up. I've attacked the logic behind your plan, as have others. I've attacked Ibby for her interactions with you. I've stated that your actions have absolutely not bee pro-town to date. If you don't think I've been begging you to address these concerns in an attempt to ascertain your alignment, you're being intentionally blind.

Here are my answers to your questions that have been scattered through your somewhat flippant posts.

when's the last time you've seen Pookyscum lurk?

I'll defer this question to others--I haven't played with you enough to know.

how long will it take before I am attacked for my behaviour? Who will do the attacking? Who will choose to leave me alone? Would they make such an action as a protown role?

I pointed you out as troublesome each of the first three days I believe, but not til today did I come after you with any significant aggression. I haven't seen many people remark upon your absence--Yos did but never followed up on it, and a few others did as well but not many. I think by day four your performance had been so lackluster in this game that only irresponsible town would leave you alone. Scum would leave you alone for several reasons--as you say you're probably not ultimately as easy a lynch for them as some. And you've been scummy--scum prefer to kill innocents I believe.

Did they skip over someone prominent?

"Prominent" meaning a well-known player? I think BJ got jumped, so people didn't defer to his prominence. Ibby's somewhat prominent and she got jumped. Cam is reknowned and has attracted some suspicion this game so he's not being entirely ignored. All of these people have been ignored bysome though, and I've tried to point out many cases of selective omissions in my previous posts.

Who would attack Pooky if he didn't have information, but didn't attack Pooky and yet still is alive?

This doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I think you're asking who isn't attacking you who should be, and the clearest answer to that is MoS. Fuldu has also avoided attacking you, as have a few others. There's no way they're all cops with info on you either, so in general I am seeing Pooky avoidance as suspicious, since the pro-town act would be to attack Pooky today, I sincerely believe.

Are you pursuing me because you want to see me lynched or because you want to see me post?

I've called you out a good 20 times in this game by now, so I think it's obvious I'd like you to post. I have ZERO other way of determining your alignment, other than relying on a personal theory that lurking is generally anti-town. If your comments continue to obfuscate, yes, I want to see you lynched. You are muddling this game, not making it clearer, to date.

What are your intentions this game?

At this point, I think this game is nearly lost for town due largely to indifference. BJ for example took pride in goading us into lynching him yesterday--showing a nearly complete apathy for the health of the town. And I can barely find 5 people today who appear remotely pro-town let alone ten. If mmod's town, for example, he should be beaten over the head with a sockeye salmon for his failure to do anything whatsoever that would make him look pro-town.

So I primarily want to be right today--I'd like to figure out who all five scumbags are so I can at least say "told you so" later. And there's a chance, albeit slim, that finding one scum will result in a cascade that unravels their team due to their carelessness these past few days. Yeah, I'd like town to win, but it's looking like long odds. Eight to lynch, only ten town around, and of that only 5 or so at most remotely attentive, responsible town.

What do you think my intentions have been this game?

Your intentions, Pooky, have been to lie low and contribute zero while watching lynches and arguments fly by. If you're pro-town, you're planning on somehow "saving the day" on day five when the count is five scum remaining and seven town. Which is completely absurd to the point where I can't see an intelligent person formulating that master plan.

[MrBuddyLee]

The Cesspit(Oberon) wagon bothers me--it looks like people on the wagon think the case is stronger than it is. It could just as easily be scum wagoning scum as scum wagoning town, assuming two scumteams. If you are town, be sure you think Cesspit is scum before voting him, because there is little incentive for scum to stay off that wagon at this point. They've made their (fairly crappy) case while some have behaved strangely towards the competing wagons/suspicions.

Fuldu, if you don't find the majority of the fifteen players suspicious right now, you're delusional. I am calling it like I see it, and if you think that's "spreading suspicions", whatever to you. I did take care to rank my suspicions--a top four I think are above and beyond scummier, and a next few listed in order. I could see any of the {} group as town, but I have a lot of trouble seeing Pooky, MoS, yours and StD's long-term actions as town.

[MrBuddyLee]

-I'd like to figure out who all five scumbags are so I can at least say "told you so" later

how do you know how many scum are left?

For the matter of convenience I'm assuming five.

Is this really the most insight you can muster?

[MrBuddyLee]

Baby Jesus? Pooky? You guys are in this game? ...Pooky's only posted 3 times since July 6th

this is a bit more normal for pooky than BJ, esp. since he's been in China and had off and on access

[MrBuddyLee]

I'm not parroting a thing and I'm not misrepresenting you, at least intentionally. I find you scummy primarily for your bizarre response to the raised Pooky issue. Also because you found Cesspit scummy for diverting from the BJ lynch, which we now know could easily be a pro-town act, and despite that you CONTINUED to push the Cesspit lynch based on the same argument (quoting the post where he diverted the BJ lynch). You've since levied other accusations, but that stretch was bizarre.

I'll see if there are any accusations you've levied against me that I haven't substantially addressed.

[MrBuddyLee]

So yeah ibby, I still find you suspicious largely due to the way you interacted with Pooky. Not much I can say... your scumhunting success today will tell everyone a lot more about your alignment.

Are you trying to imply that if I'm unsuccessful in lynching scum today that I must be scum?

No. I don't find you scummy for the BJ lynch. It's the perceived intent and effort, not necessarily the result, that matters most. Over time the results can add up.

You're awfully defensive.

[MrBuddyLee]

@MBL What exactly should I be doing? Yell and scream at lurkers to get them to post?

Pooky, who are the scum? It's episode 4 of the new season and I'd say you owe us three, since in fairness you did vote for bluemonick. The best way for us to ascertain your alignment is to hear your explanations of your suspicions of others.

The vig talk, office swap talk, etc. might prove useful after that, but I doubt will give us as much to work with as your suspicions. Surely you have a lynch recommendation for us? One that will save this poor town from itself?

[MrBuddyLee]

Who else is scum, Pooky?

[MrBuddyLee]

Doesn't unearthing the vig office allow scum to move their own people in there?

[MrBuddyLee]

And if it's not the vig, doesn't identifying what it is narrow down the possible vig office if there is one?

[MrBuddyLee]

Each team of scum probably knows the identity of 6-7 offices right now if they're doing the moving. That leaves 7-8 unknown, and eliminating one as a possible power office gives scum a pretty significant advantage in looking for power offices to move people into. If they have info based on people's slip-ups, it's an even bigger advantage.

Please knock off the office outing. Pooky, MoS, ibby, you should know better.

[MrBuddyLee]

Ah, ok, I missed that. And apparently Dr. House hasn't been paying attention either.

So Pooks, who are the scum?

[MrBuddyLee]

Distraction.

[MrBuddyLee]

Though your theorizing smells like a distraction technique to me, I'll indulge you by asking what you conclude from that line of thinking.

Who's scum, Pooky?

[MrBuddyLee]

Pooky, it looks to me like you're trying to get people to run off on wild goose chases. After someone who lurked or didn't post at all day one. That's a pretty tenuous interpretation of the n1 results.

If you're really suspicious of someone, name them. Otherwise I think you're full of it and not really trying to find scum. Your posts still reek of Pooky Voodoo.

[MrBuddyLee]

Pooky, you've been unhelpful all game. Then you pointed at Yosarian as your lone suspect for pretty shoddy reasons. Then you came up with a random blah-de-blah about how we should look for some player-to-be-named-later who missed his vig N1. Without naming anyone specific.

You're not pointing us to scum. So I'll keep asking. And drawing attention to your avoidance.

You can find it asinine all you want, and make emotional appeals out the wazoo. Maybe the fact that you've been around this site a long time will earn you sympathy.

But you've played a crappy game and I am now putting the screws to you. I don't expect you to like it. I just expect you to give us your logical reasoning followed up with some names. The fact that you can't give us the names of three people you think are scum and why is pretty lame in my opinion.

You say I've done nothing, but I've actually posted my thoughts on every player. You can use that later when I come up dead town. You can use it now to establish relationships between me and others to determine if I'm town. I've prodded several players into discussions. I've contributed far, FAR more than you, and your attempts to imply otherwise are goofy and disingenuous.

You say I've just called out lurkers. Well, I have called out a few and they're posting more and I will take partial credit for that. You certainly didn't give a rat's ass about getting them involved--you WERE one. And you say the only people I suspect are lurkers, when actually my top five are You, Mos, STD, Ibby and Fuldu, of which only YOU are a lurker.

So yeah, you're still pretty much still full of it--you haven't even read my post history to determine my actual contribution. And you're still not giving us names, only obfuscations and emotional appeals.

[MrBuddyLee]

Still waiting for MBL to answer the questions I've posted to him.

I just reread and

you didn't pose or post any questions to me

. You did make some pretty thin accusations trying to associate me with Cesspit, and if you like I can address those further. But you're trying to make it sound like I'm ignoring some questions you asked of me when actually you didn't ask any.

And the timing of this deceptive post by you is right in the midst of our attempt to get Pooky to say something of value. It's FASCINATING that you show no interest WHATSOEVER in getting him to talk, and you instead distract from the Pooky problem to try to cast aspersions on me. I see Pooky trying to set up an annoyance lynch here and you collaborating by a) diverting from any suspicions on him and b) trying to cook up some crock of shit case against me.

Which won't stick. People are catching on to you guys.

[MrBuddyLee]

Addressing MoS's post where he did NOT ask me questions, but rather made some

WEAK

accusations of ties between Cesspit and I:

You major FOSed me, MoS, for several reasons.

A)

You first take issue with the three suspicions I expressed of Cesspit this game.

1) I took issue with the overly confident Cesspit statement:

this comment makes me sure BabyJesus is a lying liar scum.

2) I took issue with Cesspit trying to pinpoint a possible office mover.
3) Start of today, I said

cam, Mos and cesspit are not trying to find scum at all

Your problem is not with my suspicions, but with the fact that I made these observations and didn't grill Cesspit further about them. At the start of today I found the entire damned town scummy, and I've been going after most of them in an attempt to find scum and get us out of the lackadaisical rut that was going to lose us the game. If I haven't lingered on each one long enough for your tastes, go ahead, find me suspicious for it.

Summary: I've addressed Cesspit's scumminess proportionally and you're incorrect that I'm scummy for not pushing him harder.

B)

You didn't like my observation:

I think mathcam is scum and cesspit's protecting him for whatever reason. Cam's smarter than to lynch BJ primarily on that claim. He's a highly logical player and that reasoning simply doesn't cut it.

At the time of this post, ibby, Yos, Coron and I all found cam suspicious, and inHim found him suspicious, all for the way cam pushed the BJ lynch. Cesspit's two posts before my comment didn't address specifics about cam, they just said the BJ lynch was justifiable in general terms and diverted the attack onto Coron for not stopping the lynch the day before. Then, Cesspit insinuates someone tried to cook up suspicions on cam day two, and then votes Coron for the BJ lynch instead of cam, which can easily be viewed as a protection of cam who was under pressure.

Summary: my observation of cess protecting cam was reasonable

C)

You didn't like my observation:

I've commented on the scumminess I see in cam, cesspit and Ibby, primarily due to their indifferent tone. I'm also surprised Yos is taking the impending loss as well as he is, and I'm thinking there's something not quite right with that either

because you say:

Here you lump TheCesspit in with Ibby and cam, talking about how you're already commented on their scumminess, for a reason that

you've never accused of him.

Actually on September 19th, MoS, I made the post you took issue with above where I said you cam and Cess weren't trying to find scum at all. Indifference and not trying to find scum mean the same thing.

Summary: your accusation here that I never accused Cess of indifference is FALSE.

D)

OK, on to your next attack on me for "protecting Cesspit".

None of your accusations against Cesspit had anything to do with my points against him, so you completely sidestepped the issue.

OK, so your argument is that I'm bringing up unique problems with Cesspit that you didn't notice. That's bad? I guess you're saying that my points are invalid because I didn't also give a thumbs up to your specific accusations of Cesspit.

Summary: MoS's claim that I am sidestepping the Cesspit issue is BLATANTLY FALSE.

I'm going to take a time out here cause I'm halfway through MoS's post accusing me of collaborating with and defending Cesspit.

To this point MoS's argument has been pretty shitty and in some cases blatantly false.

Hallmarks of a cooked up case. And note that he chose to major FOS me over this case. Reasonable? You decide.

[MrBuddyLee]

Shoddy reasons?

Refute them then.

I'll refute them once you've given us three suspects. That's one a day, Pooky. That's not a whole lot to ask you, and your song and dance is tiresome.

[MrBuddyLee]

The end of MoS's case associating me and Cesspit:

This was the last post you ever made regarding TheCesspit. Now I came along and put in effort to restate my arguments against TheCesspit in full, and you not only completely ignore me AGAIN, you try to push a lynch on a lurker to distract from the charges against him. So far this game

(A) You(MBL) have just lightly pressured TheCesspit without ever following up on your suspicions, which has effectively been a distancing tactic designed to not get TheCesspit under fire from other people

too much.

(B) Other than your weak distancing arguments, you(MBL) have completely ignored anything having to do with TheCesspit

,

even when directly asked to comment on him. At first I was just annoyed that you weren't paying attention, but this is way too much to be coincidence. I'm pretty sure now that you are TheCesspit's scumbuddy, so I'll be sure to vote you tomorrow.

A)

MoS says

my pressure

on Cesspit has been designed to

not get Cesspit under pressure

from others? That's a mindbogglingly illogical, dumb, false, misleading observation by MoS. How does pressure on him by me result in less pressure on him from others? Defy logic and explain your nonsense, MoS.

B)

MoS says that other than my arguments, I've ignored anything Cesspittish. Not only did I post 8 separate criticisms of Cesspit before this accusatory post of MoS's, but I posted a six sentence summary of Cess's play after this post of MoS's. Yeah, other than those fourteen sentences, I've had no comment whatsoever on Cesspit. What the fuck? Do you expect everyone to play only with the toys you brought, MoS?

Summary: Basically, MoS's argument comes down to the fact that I, specifically, posted fourteen separate comments on Cesspit, but since I didn't point-by-point MoS's argument against Cesspit, he's sure Cess and I are scumpartners.

Don't be shy. Raise your hand if you think MoS is more than a little off his rocker on this one.

Does it make him scummy? Well, depends on his intentions for raising it OVER and OVER. He keeps pushing this case for the Cesspit+MBL love connection and avoiding discussing Pooky substantially at all. Eight other players have commented on Pooky's scumminess but not MoS.

In my eyes, Pooky has been a 9/10 of scumminess and Cesspit maybe a 4/10. I've made comments about both proportionally. MoS has made NO comments about Pooky and a zillion about Cesspit and MBL. Does that imply that MoS finds Pooky 0/10 scummy and Cesspit and MBL 10/10 scummy? We may never know, because MoS refuses to address the Pooky problem.

I am torn--is MoS protecting Pooky because they're scum together, or because he has some blind faith/love for Pooky from outside the game?

Also, fast forward to tomorrow. There's a 1/5 or so chance I'll be dead, probably more like 1/2 since I've kind of put a bullseye on my back today. When I come up dead town, MoS, you will have to justify why you pursued me with such vigor and failed to address so many other worthy targets.

And to everyone else, the above paragraph is not intended to get MoS off my back. It's intended to frame the bigger picture: I am trying to roust all scum from their cozy hideaways, and MoS is relentlessly hurling false accusations at one townie(MBL) and is way overly certain about the alignment of another player (Cess).

[MrBuddyLee]

Thanks Pooky. I think your reasoning accompanying those would be useful as well, but I've asked enough of you and it's good to see you contributing, so I'll let someone else press for them.

You've(MBL) provided absolute crock for reasoning in terms of actually pointing out scumbags

You say my reasons are shoddy? What the hell are yours!? Because he/she didn't post? because he/she lurked?

As for my top five suspicions, I've given specific reasons for all five that go well beyond lurkiness. I've expressed dozens if not a hundred specific suspicions at this point. Let me throw a dart at this thread and find one randomly:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Max shows an unusual curiosity here--as if he had been the bomber or, less likely, a partner of Yos's who knew what his role was.

Worse, Yos is in the process of grilling lordy for fishing (Yos grilled Spamwise for fishing earlier as well) yet Yos treats Max here like a country gentleman despite the utter blatant nature of Max's fishing attempt.

That quote alone proves your statement false, and I've posted dozens like it.

Basically, Pooky, you're full of shit when you say I've provided no reasoning. I would like a few people besides myself to shoot this blatantly false statement of yours down. Not to pump me up, but to demonstrate that you really aren't in tune with this game at all if you think I haven't been posting real suspicions backed by significant facts.

[MrBuddyLee]

As promised, why I thought Pooky's case aginst Yos was shoddy:

My lynch recommendation currently is Yosarian for several reasons,

1) he's been alone at end of day votecounts twice I believe on Days 2/3, notably missing out on both bluemonick and BJ. This is suspicious because having your vote alone on someone doesn't actually do anything, he either has the position that he is against lynching the candidate or for it, if he is for it then he would be voting for that lynchee, if he is against it, then he should be trying to get a different lynch. Voting for a person alone does niether of those things and is inconsistent with how a protown player would use his or her vote at such a time, it's like disguising a nonvote as a vote by making sure it could never matter or be picked up on since it is not a threat.

2) This quote:

Umm...you could try, like, defending yourself? Answering questions people ask you? Acting like you might want to live or something?

I don't know if you're scum or not, but if you continue to act like this, your lynch is probably inevitable.

He made that comment directed at BlueM as BlueM was imploding and getting swept up in a lynching tide.

It sounds rather like something a scumbuddy would say to another scumbuddy to try to get them to wake up and defend themselves. This is notable because he doesn't make such comments towards the other lurkers but he does push for their lynches and express suspicion of them. Also he did not end up on BlueM's lynch.

1) You weren't voting end of Day One, Pooky, so your observation is somewhat hypocritical to begin with.
2) Yosarian and you both voted lordy, then you switched to bluemonick and he didn't. Bluemonick admitted to being scum and Yos didn't move over in time for the lynch. Is that really the behavior of a scumpartner whose partner just claimed scum? Was Yos really trying to avoid scrutiny by staying off the bluemonickwagon? Possible, but so so risky. If there was ever a bus opp that was it.
3) Yos was on inhim all D3 and said he didn't love the BJ wagon. He then switched to Cesspit at the last minute for Cesspit's scummy post:

his(BJ's) comment makes me sure BabyJesus is a lying liar scum.

And I can't really fault Yos for that, nor do I see his actions there as avoiding accountability. He was pretty clear that he didn't like the BJ lynch. I don't see your accusation that he manipulated himself into being a lone vote at lynchtime as valid.

4) Your second point, that Yos showed mild protection of bluemonick at the end of D2... not sure what to say about that.

bluemonick claimed scum.

He was going down in flames. And after bluemonick claimed scum, Yosarian posted three times trying to get bluemonick to express some suspicions, defend himself, and claim.

Pooky, you could be right, but it would pretty much make Yos pretty dumb or REALLY risk-taking scum to associate himself with a scumpartner who just claimed scum.

So yeah, Pooky, that's why I found your case against Yos shoddy. Those four points I just outlined, plus the fact that this is the best "Dr. House" could come up with after three days of clinical detachment. Shoddy.

[MrBuddyLee]

Analysis:
Day 1 -
He changed his vote status way too much in the beginning of the game for my tastes. He doesn't have a contributing (defending himself doesn't count) post until his interaction with spamwise late in Day 1. To me it looks like he had about 2 contributing posts all of day 1, while still posting often enough that he seemed to be saying a lot. If he hadn't had so many posts that contributed nothing, I don't think this would be as big a deal.

Notes:
Pressured Bogre/mlaker, who was protown
Pressured spamwise

Yup, fairly weak day one. He voted viper and mlaker/Bogre and cited other people's reasons. Pushes Spamwise/Bogre and lurkers. Gives no reasons other than "they've got tells" and "looks very suss". Weak sauce D1.

Day 2 -
I really take issue with post 22. First off, you can't just say "I use craplogic all the time early game" and expect that to exonerate you. That's just trying to get an excuse for bad behavior. Also, you barely mentioned bluemonick's actions, went into more detail about BMQ's scumminess, but hopped on the bluemonick wagon in the SAME POST. THEN you turn around attack spamwise for diverting attention from the bluemonick wagon, which I see as an attempt to bring attention back to spamwise and divert attention from the bluemonick wagon.

Notes:
Was on the bluemonick wagon, who was scum
Pressured spamwise

Back on Spamwise, still no reason stated. Hops on bluemonickwagon for no stated reason, finally gives a reason for finsing Spam scummy: "he's avoiding/diverting from bluemonickwagon". Weak D2. I don't flip out on the "craplogic" comment like MoS does, it's relatively innocuous. Seemed to be happy lynching either Spam or bluemonick, I don't see the protection you see, MoS.

Day 3 -
I see Post 28 (and i did back then as well) as him either telling the truth or claiming it because it was convenient as scum. And he may well have scum info about office moving, which would correllate with his expectation that the office mover would be scum. Then began the series of posts that caught my attention. He jumps on the BJ wagon, criticizing BJ's vote of Harry Potter. Then he changes his vote to Harry Potter, claiming to like BJ's defense (although there was none to speak of), and criticizes HP's vote on BJ. Then he equlizes his position, giving him to opportunity to join either wagon by claiming that he's now suspicious of both of them. When BJ makes the critical "mistake" that was garnering him a lot of votes, he takes the opportunity to hop back over to the wagon, while still saying we should lynch HP, too. He also says he'll respond to my accusations about this on the next day, but he has done nothing to mention it so far on Day 4.

Notes:
Pressured spamwise/mathcam

Votes Spam for protecting his scumbuddy d1/d2 but doesnt say who the d1 scumbuddy was. Switches to BJ saying "not helpful". Weak. Switches over to Harry for bad play, lol. Says BJ is scum for being unhelpful whether or not he's actually scum. BJ really gave no defense so that's a bizarre reason for Cess to unvote him. Switches back to BJ in time for lynch. Says BJ lied about his PM. Says Ibby did a good job bringing BJ to justice. Moderately active D3 with relatively crappy backing (admittedly so did everyone else.) This lynch was BJ's fault so no major negatives to Cess for D3.

Day 4 -
He hasn't done much yet today. He still needs to defend himself from yesterday's attacks. I'm also interested by the fact that he randomly calls attention to the fact that people (especially himself) were suspicious of mathcam/spamwise back on Day 2 or so, out of the blue. I would be interested to see if MBL can justify that TheCesspit was protecting mathcam, because i'm not really seeing it. If he can convince me otherwise, that would be REALLY inconsistent on TheCesspit's part. And now even though he's been calling for spamwise to be lynched practically all game, he wants to go after Pooky for lurking all of a sudden. That doesn't sit well with me, not at all.

Notes:
Called suspicion on mathcam/spamwise

Suspects Coron, Pooky, LML, Spamcam. No scintillating reasoning. For the most part ignoring today's debates--says they make his head hurt. Says the scum are gliding by, and in fact Cesspit is pretty much gliding. MoS says Cess is abandoning Spamcam who he's been pushing all game, but the push has been on and off and not founded in the least.

Summary: Cesspit's ultra-weak this game. Gives pretty much no reasons for most of the things he does. Yep, he could definitely be scum, or he could be yet another townie not doing crap and looking scummy cause he aint doing crap. Tough to say.

Cesspit, who did you think spamcam was protecting D1? Do you still think that's the case? Can you please give a few suspicions with your own reasoning? MoS is correct that your play has been subpar, and I'm not sure if that means you're scum or not. Who are the scum? And in particular, can you summarize your case against spamcam, who you've come back to all game long?

[MrBuddyLee]

No, I just explained that I saw two different behaviors from Cesspit. I saw him attacking Spamcam weakly over several days, but I also saw him protect cam via diversion from the four players coming after him day three.

Seriously, MoS, if you're going to ask me questions at least take the time to read and understand the responses. It honestly looks more like you're interested in winning arguments than you are in uncovering the truth of what's going on here.

[MrBuddyLee]

Er, Cess's protection of cam and my observation of such was early D4, not D3.

Cesspit went after Harry Potter and BJ instead of Spamcam on D3 and complimented cam on some good comments:

Mathcam made a very important point that I was going to make. Role is NOT tied to alignment. People are forgetting that.

D4, Cesspit deflected a growing wagon on mathcam by suggeting Coron was scummier on the BJ issue. Because cam just got BJ lynched... Coron avoided the issue altogether. That logic makes ZERO sense--if you don't like the lynch, the person pushing it is probably scummier than the person lurking.

So yes, Cesspit was protecting mathcam. Quit being obstinate, MoS. It's clear as day.

[MrBuddyLee]

Now you're just lying.

I specifically commented on Pooky at your request

, just so we could get past your bullshit stalling and ignoring my case just because I hadn't commented on your diversion.

OK MoS, I assembled your "specific comments" on Pooky:

this(lurking) is a bit more normal for pooky than BJ, esp. since he's been in China and had off and on access

I think your argument against Pooky is nothing more than an attempt at diversion. You're using his reputation to try and get him lynched, picking him out of a multitude of lurkers. I know that pooky will come through eventually.

Actually, I'm not thinking that Pooky is town, but I AM thinking that there isn't nearly strong enough evidence to justify going after him when there are much better candidates to pursue.

So all you've done, MoS, is to say that people are picking on your poor cuddly little friend. You've said nothing whatsoever to address the substance of Pooky's posts.

Given that I HAVE commented on Pooky, the above quote is completely pointless.

No, my pushing you on this issue isn't pointless, it's critical. Your comments on Pooky have been protective, inadequate, and have avoided the substance of his comments entirely.

MoS, what's your take on:

* Pooky's "Dr. House" post to explain his lurking for three and a half days
* Pooky's claim that he didn't answer ibby's questions because he was waiting for MBL to ask those same questions
* Pooky's reasoning for finding Yos his top suspect
* Pooky's top four suspicions
* The list of three people Pooky finds to be protown

MoS, stop avoiding the Pooky issue. Your complete failure to discuss the substance of Pooky's posts makes you look scummy. Any logical person would wonder what you're avoiding. Your quotes above ALL protect him, but give no reasoning for that protection. So of course I'm going to find you grossly scummy. And of course I'm going to keep pressing you on the issue--it's a fulcrum for finding scum in this game.

[MrBuddyLee]

MoS, Pooky resurfaced 2 1/2 weeks ago, made the notorious "Dr. House" post, then disappeared for two weeks.

I've been asking people including you to comment on that post, and you've ignored it. So please don't try and pretend you've been responsive on the Pooky issue when you've actually been dragging your feet for whatever reason.

[MrBuddyLee]

Fuldu day one moves his vote to ibby for laziness, not a terrible reason early in the game.

Apologizes for his absence: wedding

Finds cesspit suspicious for voting DGB after she begged replacement. I see dumb not scum but yes, the Cess play is suspect.

summary: no real comment on validity of Bogretownwagon

Day two: Apologies for a weekend away

Lordy and Kurtz are stupid. No vote yet.

finds bluemonick's "jump to that bandwagon" on Yosarian scummy. (not stupid, scummy.) Says the reasoning is nonsense. Votes bluemonick for nonsense. Curious.

mild handslap of spectrumvoid for reasonless vote.

summary: found stupidity in bluemonick scummy but not in lordy or kurtz.

Day three: disappears for 3 weeks

Apology for absense w/ excuse: "i was waiting for cam the replacement to speak first!" Must reread to see if Spam was so central that he should be waited on there.

(clinical comment on the bluemonick 'scumpartner outing', no real analysis)

Softpedals his post on yos to reiterate there was no vote associated.

If trying to get people to not vote for you wasn't the goal of the claim, then what purpose did claiming serve?

Fine, BJ. I gave you two opportunities to answer my question and you've ducked it without comment both times.

vote: BabyJesus

Hmm, is not answering that question really a serious enough offense to vote BJ? I lean towards yes--BJ looked like he was avoiding issues at the time.

summary: his words never really seem to imply belief that BJ is scummy, just that BJ is making a nonsensical defense. vote stayed to the end though.

day four: is in office-thinkin mode at the start of the day.

Day 4's 6 days old and votes MBL for being a hypocrite (lurkerish d1-3 now calling out lurkers)

I'm increasingly convinced that he's scum.

It's curious--this is only the second time Fuldu's actually stated he's found someone scummy. The rest of his mildest of mild suspicions have been very detached and clinical, other than on bluemonick.

Drops hints that he's happy with MoS's cesspit case and is willing to move.

I'm assuming "may consider shifting my vote" means "if that becomes a safer wagon"? What else could it mean? In case this BuddyLee hypocrisy trend doesn't pan out?

Claims that the quality of his posts dramatically exceeds MBL's. Uses his argument against bluemonick as his primary defense. It's true--that's the only Fuldu post that moved the game forward in a positive direction. The rest of them have diddled around with office logic, not expressed many of his suspicions, and pointed out minor flaws in people's logic but not their scumminess.

Spends a few posts diddling around with an armlx theory.

Then digs up a decent observation on MBL--noted I posted in mild support of Bogre hours before he was hammered, and didnt unvote. This shows that Fuldu actually went back and reread my post history carefully, implying I was his #1 target for lynch. As I try to determine Fuldu's alignment, I ask whether he's going back and looking for dirt with a fine-toothed comb as scum or as town. I haven't played with Fuldu enough to say.

you'll notice a marked difference in the quality of MBL posts from before my vote/post to which he's referring and those after...not that this was the primary intent of the post, my targeted attempt to improve the value of discourse from those I consider suspicious has proven substantially more effective than any of MBL's repeated listing of people he thinks are lurking.

For some reason attempts to detract from any pro-town motives in my September posts and reassign the credit to himself.

Remember above when Fuldu gave signs that if the Cess wagon kicked into gear he'd move back onto it? Let's look at the actual quotes side-by-side:

I agree with MoS's comments on

TheCesspit, who I was uncomfortable with back on Day One, but subsequently began to trust again

. I may consider shifting my vote over there, but for now would prefer this.

Well, I was in favor of a Cesspit lynch back on day one

, so if the MBL bandwagon isn't going anywhere, I'll gladly change to Cesspit.

vote: Cess

1) It's day four. Your day one reason was way weak, particularly now that there're four days worth of posts to work with. Why even make an attempt to rationalize your vote

twice

by reiterating that it's a weak suspicion you dabbled with day one?
2) How sincere were his suspicions of me if he moved his vote? He was "increasingly convinced MBL is scum" cause I was hypocritical. Moving off because a "better wagon" appeared is curious.

Apparently my accusation that he was looking for a convenient lynch stuck, because he counterargued that I listed a zillion people as suspicious. He didn't attempt to defend his vote at all.

Disappears for a week waiting for Oberon to post. This is the second time he's seemed happy not to rock the boat until a replacement had a chance to dig themselves a hole. I'd have maybe asked someone else a question in that time, but that's not how Fuldu's playing this game. He's all about The Cesspit/Oberon. Takes a cheap nonsequitur shot at MBL while asking Oberon for a clearer argument behind his mathcam vote. Fuldu won't unvote unless Oberon:

points to the specific arguments brought against him(mathcam) that you felt were strong

This is fascinating, considering the similarity between Fuldu's argument against Cess and Oberon's against cam:

Mathcam seems to stand out as more scummy then most everyone else here. Plus

the strongest arguements have been brought up against him.

I agree with MoS's comments on TheCesspit

, who I was uncomfortable with back on Day One

Summary: Fuldu demands Oberon lists the specific arguments against cam that were strong, while Fuldu coasts along in MoS's wake without listing a single specific argument against Cesspit that he finds strong.

His actions on the whole feel more like posturing than scumhunting.

FOS: Fuldu

[MrBuddyLee]

supposedly we're getting another revert, may want to hold off on long posts til then but i dunno

[MrBuddyLee]

I'm cool with that, it would be healthy to get on a new tack here. I still think several people (armlx?) owe us their opinions on pretty much everyone else.

[MrBuddyLee]

All it takes is one townie to destroy our chances at this point. Oberon, looks like you're up to the challenge. Then again, if you're scum, do carry on.

[MrBuddyLee]

The vast majority of your posts recently have consisted of poorly constructed attacks. Such actions can, under certain circumstances, be forgiven due to newbishness, but you look like a newbie to me. You look like someone who should know better than to believe the things that you have said.

I've been torn. Despite my observations I've been hesitant to vote for MBL. Mostly, I haven't been aware of the source of my hesitation, but I've come to realize that the primary reason has been Cam's reluctance to vote for him. While it's true that I have generally agreed with a lot of what Cam has said this game, I can attribute the fact that I've allowed his reluctance to hold my vote more to my unfortunate tendancy to give too much trust to those whom I know and respect.

Vote: MBL

I believe you're scum. I'm going withthat.

This is what you're "sticking with due to inertia". A post from over a month ago where you made unsubstantiated allegations and sucked up to cam.

A month. And this is the best you can do. "Inertia". And originally you didn't even list specific posts you found to be "poorly constructed attacks".

I think it's time you do something like that. Your posts and your reason for lynch are so disgracefully careless and indifferent that they're pretty much the textbook definition of scummy coasting. You'll take any lynch, and you don't particularly care to examine any details to help town figure out which one is best.

You're no more convincing today than you were a month ago. You don't give a rat's ass who gets lynched, you just want night to fall so you can send your kill in and move some offices around and stuff.

unvote, vote: Uraj

ps. mmod, if you're town, you're pretty much the worst town ever. You're probably scum too.

[MrBuddyLee]

Mudslinging is not scum hunting. It's a personal attack for the sake of a personal attack.

You haven't read my posts at all if you think they're primarily personal attacks. In fact, please prove it, scum.

[MrBuddyLee]

Uraj, please explain to me how either of those statements are false. If mmod's town he's completely neglected his duty this game, and Oberon replaced into the game for the vote leader only to post nothing of substance. If either are town, they're not playing this game to win. And it sucks.

[MrBuddyLee]

Yes, this line of discussion is a distraction probably better meant for the Mafia forum.

But I consider it an insult when people sign up and disrespect the rest of us by abandoning these games or posting such scant scraps that it's impossible to tell town from scum. It's rude and inconsiderate.

And the place to call them out on it is in thread. Because there's always the chance that the reason they appear to be TERRIBLE TOWN is because they're actually NOT town.

So I'll try to keep it a tad more civil, but I will continue to call a spade a spade, because it's part of the game. And fact of the matter is, a good percentage of this town is playing indifferently this game.

[MrBuddyLee]

And Uraj, I'd appreciate it if you'd clarify why you're voting me, with some specifics please.

[MrBuddyLee]

Coron,

I don't remember exactly what happened but I remember a lot of people were voting Mathcam and he was very suspicious.

Vote: Mathcam

Your last post of substance didn't particularly move me to find you pro-town. Since then, all you've done is bicker about somewhat directionless details without outlining further suspicions. You're a better player than this, and even if you're scum you can do a better job of helping us find the other team's scum. You seem indifferent, which would be a hallmark of scum in the driver's seat. Please throw us a bone.

[MrBuddyLee]

What's wrong with slowing down the game? I imagine you were thrilled with the pace of day 3?

[MrBuddyLee]

I don't really play with this style in every game. But after a day like D3, I think a different approach was required. Maybe today would have been a better day anyway, but I really think that having people so much more on the record today has been a good thing. I think we have a better idea of who to lynch than we did at the start of the day, and I think scum will even have some better ideas of who to crosskill, improving town's chances at victory.

[MrBuddyLee]

Here.

[MrBuddyLee]

I thought Kurtz sounded like the role-switcher too, and he was Uraj before Uraj was Uraj.

Hmm.

[MrBuddyLee]

Can you office switchers please give us the full details of your role? As in, can you blow up offices? What happens if a target of a move dies? Can you be moved out of your office? Anything else that's relevant would be helpful and I don't believe at this point would be detrimental to town.

[MrBuddyLee]

Good luck, scum.