Jack of All Trades Mafia -- OVER!

[Mastermind of Sin]

Original Roll String: 1d25

1 25-Sided Dice: (5) = 5

Man, I'm envious of Masterchief. He got to sleep with Seven of Nine =O

[Mastermind of Sin]

vote:dippinggoofball

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'm voting DGB because if she's town, she'll probably lie and do scummy/bad for the town things anyways. Figure if we lynch her we can avoid all that.

that's actually a good reason to keep my vote where it is. It's been a long time since I've seen DGB do something that actually turned out to be helpful for the town.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I PM'd the mod. Last post.

i hope you're not trying to put me on a guilt trip or anything, cuz it's not gonna work. After that bs I've had to go through with you the last couple games this is fully deserving.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'm gonna be gone from Thurs-Mon. at MeMeMeet, fyi

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'll be here for 2 days, then I'm going on vacation possibly through July 3rd/4th.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'm guessing that's american

*goes to corner to ponder on this*

What does this mean?

in referense to Deadwood the TV show

[Mastermind of Sin]

I've got company (other people from MafiaScum, actually) over for the weekend, so don't expect me to post much.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Sorry for my absence, I was at a wedding the first half of the week and have been catching up since then. My first inclination was to read through the mlaker/Bogre bandwagon, but that, itself, wasn't as useful as I had hoped. However, it did turn up the following when I went through the posts of each of the bandwagoners individually.

unvote: viper0933

vote: DGB

I'll unvote when the mod replaces. Never trust anyone within the thread. If DGB is scum, I'll FOS ibashea and MoS. This could all be a ruse.

Cesspit was on the "Well, we have to kill

someone

" viper wagon at the beginning of the day, and then voted DGB when she posted that she had asked to be replaced, claiming that it might be a ruse. I have to ask, a ruse aimed at accomplishing what, precisely? Drawing attention to herself with something that would eventually be shown to be a lie? It actually surprises me a little that no one else has jumped on this for the obviously horrible argument that it is.

unvote: ibaesha; vote: TheCesspit

Now here's a guy who's got the skillz to pay the billz.

unvote, vote: TheCesspit

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'm here and reading the thread.

that really doesn't help us much...

[Mastermind of Sin]

unvote, vote: SpamWise

for his most recent post. I was thinking much along the same lines as TheCesspit here.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Hi guys! Just checking in for now. 12 pages on a D1 is a lot! I'll post my view + vote later.

You obv didn't read primetime mini

12 players
17 pages
1 day

Oval Office 2 >_>

[Mastermind of Sin]

Why the vote on Ibby? Because she's suspicious of people trying to out her role abilities for no reason? That's a load of bull.

Vote: Lordy

[Mastermind of Sin]

yeah I highly doubt alignment will change. I'm more inclined to believe that your role abilities change as you change offices, but it's ludicrous to assume that alignment changes, too. I am also waiting for Lordy to answer Ibby, since that was the main reason for my vote in the first place, and he seems to be avoiding the question, which makes me want to keep my vote there even more.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I DID NOT CLAIM!!!! NOR DID I CLAIM ALIGNMENT! DO YOU GUYS EVEN BOTHER TO READ MY POSTS, OR ARE YOU ALL JUST SCUM WHO JUST WANT TO CONJURE A LYNCH OUT OF YOUR ASRE SO YOU CAN MOVE ON TO NIGHT AND KILL?

Why are you squirming so much? If you are protown, it shouldn't be so hard to answer the questions we've put to you, but you're avoiding them like they're the gates to Hell or something. It's really not that difficult...

[Mastermind of Sin]

unvote, vote: armlx

I'm not buying the confused play. There has been plenty of discussion that shows he DID NOT claim. Even if he did mistakenly think Lordy had claimed, there has also been a lot of discussion that casts reasonable doubt upon the alignment of such a claim, yet armlx chimes in by saying Lordy's role makes sense as if that's the most natural thing in the world.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'll be out of town for the next 6 days or so, btw.

[Mastermind of Sin]

well that was a fast bandwagon...

[Mastermind of Sin]

We are really losing people at an astonishing rate. So Fritz, BMQ and lordy are town... hm...

3 a night isn't THAT astonishing...look at Committee mafia...

[Mastermind of Sin]

Who has been reassigned so far?

[Mastermind of Sin]

FoS: Cesspit

Don't ignore the other conversations going on just so you can push a quicklynch.

[Mastermind of Sin]

My guess is that ibby or Spamwise was the office destroyer, or that person got blocked last night. This makes me lean towards Spamwise, given his reactions regarding Bluemonick.

[Mastermind of Sin]

or put one of their own into it.

vote: spamwise

If he lied about the contents of his office, that just tops of everything else against him, enough for me to push my FoS to a vote.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Then why the fuck did you say you had info at all? All you're doing is making yourself a target for the mafia while not giving the town a SINGLE ounce of help on the matter. Now that you've claimed info, you might as well tell us what it is before you become a victim.

[Mastermind of Sin]

hrmmm. the problem is the setup of this game. If not for the offices, we could probably figure out his information upon his death, since we'd see his role. But with abilities linked to the offices, we wouldn't see what it was.

[Mastermind of Sin]

you're assuming the abilities are linked to alignment. The way this game is set up, abilities were randomly assigned to you regardless of alignment. Plus, even if the mafia don't have a mover role right now, it's possible that one of them (since there seems to be more than one) could move a scum into the other mover office by accident.

[Mastermind of Sin]

That's exactly the point, MMoD. Why do you think that Yaw said that even he wouldn't know what would happen in this game? Everything is completely random. 2 things were randomly assigned, independant of each other: office and alignment. So yes, if we got unlucky, the scum could have a lot of the power roles. That's why this setup is crazy. We knew this before signing up for the game, that it could end up imbalanced through the randomness.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Well, that's a fair point, MOS, but if the scum can switch or destroy offices, there really is some information it might be better for them not to have.

What he said. MoS was hounding me for ignoring the conversation, I was merely pointing out I was ignoring for good reason.

I wonder if the third level is what the office contains.

level 1) alignment
level 2) office role
level 3) office equipment not applicable to the role

It's fairly easy to do one of 2 things here.

a) Introduce your information subtely as ideas regarding the conversation
or
b) Contribute to the conversation without actually referring to or using your information at all

Either method would've been acceptable and not tipped off anything to the scum or helped them (with the exception of a), depending on the nature of your information. Not knowing what information you have, I can't know for sure if a) is applicable. But b) definitely is). So you did NOT have a "good reason" to ignore the conversation. There is never a good reason to ignore conversation.

[Mastermind of Sin]

TheCesspit, I'd like you to confirm that one of these scenarios is true (don't say which one, just that it's one of them).

a) when you die, your information will be obvious to everyone so it's not worth it to reveal it any earlier, since it would help the scum, too
b) this information is so devastatingly helpful to the scum that it far outweighs anything the town would get out of it
c) there is some sort of consequence (game mechanic-wise) of you sharing this information in thread that you are trying to avoid

If any of these is true, please acknowledge this and I'll drop the subject.

[Mastermind of Sin]

vote: BabyJesus

I suggest that everyone do a "see all posts" for BabyJesus. For someone who coined :not helpful: on MS, he's been a model contender for his own phrase. I'm not gonna give him benefit of the doubt anymore, since he hasn't done anything useful so far. I get the feeling that the only reason he voted bluemonick yesterday is that he felt bandwagon material and decided to throw him under the bus.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Baby Jesus? Pooky? You guys are in this game? Heh...I'd forgotten that either of you were playing. As I look back...Pooky's only posted 3 times since July 6th, and BJ's only posted a few times this month while saying almost nothing. You're two of the more experenced players in this game, we need to hear from both of you guys a lot more then this.

this is a bit more normal for pooky than BJ, esp. since he's been in China and had off and on access

[Mastermind of Sin]

Spamwise: were you kidding or for real about the surfboards?

Leading question much?

FOS: Spectrumvoid and SpamWise.

I will poke around the bandwagon and see what can be found when I have my laptop settled into my new law school. (This is why I didn't post since last week. I'm home for the weekend.)[/quote]
TSS, Ibby has specifically said that there are no surfboards in her office, which used to be Spamwise's, so it's a relevant question that needs to be asked.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'm guessing the 3rd layer is blowing up offices. Just a guess though... We've been assuming that blowing up offices is due to a tool that can be found in somebody's office, what if it's independent of everything? As in, the mod just randomly chooses someone each night and asks him/her to choose an office to blow up?

I'm thinking role claiming is a bad idea with these game mechanics. Since roles/abilities change every night, knowing that a person is cop doesn't mean that he'll be cop next night, and doc should protect him. So power roles shouldn't claim anyway.

Pooky has checked in some of his other games that I'm also in. I think BJ is more lurk-ish, since he has no RL excuse.

I doubt that the 3rd layer is blowing up offices. It makes a lot more sense as an ability.

[Mastermind of Sin]

confirm vote: BabyJesus

We have our play for the day.

[Mastermind of Sin]

confirm vote: BabyJesus

We have our play for the day.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Harry_Potter, you're not going to get more than that. That's how BJ is. However, in addition to him being generally unhelpful as usual, I don't think his voting has been particularly protown, since that's about the only thing of substance we have from him.

[Mastermind of Sin]

While I agree that H_P isn't the best one to talk on this matter, I would like to point out to anyone that didn't realize it that he has been away on vacation or something for a while, so his lurking seems a bit more aggravated due to that. Regardless, there is still a point here. Hopefully, H_P will post soon and contribute.

[Mastermind of Sin]

My point is, we are going after a lurker with little reason (HP) or the standard last resort lynch (BabyJ/Fritzler). Neither one appeals to me, and I feel we would be better served finding a real target. Mathcam is on the right track here.

Erm, we're voting BabyJesus for being particularly unhelpful, more than the norm. This is NOT a standard last resort wagon. Also, there were as many votes on me as on BabyJesus or HP, so why did you make comments on both of those "wagons" (there were only 2 votes anyways) but not mine?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Note: I'll be out of town from tomorrow until Monday evening

[Mastermind of Sin]

The fact that BJ is not only acting weird, but is also on mathcam's list of possible suspects leads me to think he would be a suitable 4th prospect. He was the penultimate voter on that wagon. I'm going with my instincts on this.

vote Baby Jesus

piling on to get a train going on an innocent noted. Your instincts suck. Actually you are scum, but if you weren;t scum, you're instincts would suck.

vote scum Harry Potter

git er done.

your attempt at diversion/derailing and its "success" at getting armlx to vote HP instead of you (yes I know he claims it was b/c HP voted BJ) while not bothering to answer any charges against you is noted.

[Mastermind of Sin]

you voted for armlx for no reason, then your next post called bogre scum, and you spent the next 3-4 posts talking about how we are lynching bogre, but you never once voted him. That kind of play is someone who wants to get a bandwagon started while seeming to join later when he finally votes them. You were also on the bluemonick wagon, jumping on there to make yourself look less scummy when he came up protown.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Ibby, not to derail you from your current vote, but would you care to share your thoughts on BabyJesus and the fact that he is ignoring the charges brought against him?

[Mastermind of Sin]

My point is that his play SEEMS consistent, but if you look at the content (such as WHO he's voting for rather than just the fact that he's votehopping), you see that he looks decidedly less protown than usual.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Very interesting how easily ibaesha is willing to hop on though, for crap reasons....

At least if you all lynch me you will know how Mastermind of S

P

in got his name...

quite interesting how BJ calls everything crap without bothering to actually refute anything put against him. Classic scum avoidance tactics.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'm not the only one who's said things against you.

Alrighty: BJ's votes and a bit of what happened around them.

random vote

channel (lordy)

vote max because of bad play in another game
unvoted because it was

viper (bluemonick)

that played badly
voted

viper

because he realized viper was in the game (was this a ruse?)
voted

mlaker (bogre)

following the next wagon that began forming
(says pooky is scum,

blackberry

questions why he doesn't vote him then, he responds saying pooky isn't getting lynched right now)
jumps on the

lordy

wagon - no reason
says 'we're all scum' after lordy gets angry
switches to

bluemonick

when lynch looks inevitable
votes pooky - no reason
votes spamwise/mathcam - no reason
votes harry potter calling him scum - omgus

+ a possibility of being scum partner bluemonick was referring to.

I think I see what you're saying here now that I look at it like this.

unvote; vote BJ

Why don't you try explaining some of your actions, eh?

[Mastermind of Sin]

OMG URAJ!!!!! <3 <3 <3 MEANIE IS BACK!!!!!!

[Mastermind of Sin]

@Baby Jesus- you jump all over with your votes every game is true, but normally your votes start out looking random and then ending up serving a purpose. Your voting here just doesn't have that flavor. The more I look at how things happened, the more positive I am that you are the scum buddy bluemonick was talking about.

confirm vote Baby Jesus

Echo echo echo. You just restated MoS's argument and part of mine. Do you have thoughts on anyone/anything else in this game, or are you just going to continue lurking and piggy-backing other people's arguments? I'm heavily considering moving my vote back to you right now.

While I agree with this somewhat, would you like to point out something NEW that he could've introduced as an argument against BJ that hadn't been said already?

[Mastermind of Sin]

@Baby Jesus- you jump all over with your votes every game is true, but normally your votes start out looking random and then ending up serving a purpose. Your voting here just doesn't have that flavor. The more I look at how things happened, the more positive I am that you are the scum buddy bluemonick was talking about.

confirm vote Baby Jesus

Echo echo echo. You just restated MoS's argument and part of mine. Do you have thoughts on anyone/anything else in this game, or are you just going to continue lurking and piggy-backing other people's arguments? I'm heavily considering moving my vote back to you right now.

While I agree with this somewhat, would you like to point out something NEW that he could've introduced as an argument against BJ that hadn't been said already?

While I suppose you're just trying to make the point about what BabyJ is doing (or lack thereof), your comment almost seems like you want to just pile something else on top of BabyJ, but that you yourself won't be doing that. What you are accusing BabyJ of right now does not convince me, because of the player he is, that he is scum, and the fact that you keep pushing that one point detracts from your argument.

And iba, good post on H_P. Now, vote him.

Umm, wtf are you implying here? I was making the point that there wasn't much more to be said about BJ that HP

could've

contributed, so it makes perfect sense that he would be agreeing with other people when he placed his vote.

That being said, I am very curious as to the sudden drop in support for the BJ wagon, especially TheCesspit's. I don't believe that BJ has put up a very good defense at all. All he's done is dismiss everything against him as if it was inconsequential. Nothing has

changed

, but all of a sudden people are "rethinking" their opinions of BJ. I find this highly suspect.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I don't believe that BJ has put up a very good defense at all. All he's done is dismiss everything against him as if it was inconsequential. Nothing has

changed

, but all of a sudden people are "rethinking" their opinions of BJ. I find this highly suspect.

That's because your little "case" against me IS highly inconsequential. The fact that you don;t believe I have put up a good defense has no bearing on the actual truth of the matter - which is that nothing I have done is a scum indication. The fact that you are continuing to try and push my lynch rather then attempt to find scum is telling.

your voting pattern is highly suspect, and since you've done nothing to convince me that you had actual reasoning for those votes that would show a protown thought process, I'm still inclined to believe that your votes were based off of a scum agenda.

[Mastermind of Sin]

your voting pattern is highly suspect

No, it isn't.

No content.

You see it's posts like that make me want to return my vote on BJ. Your voting pattern is poor, and there is a case to answer. Your dismissal of it as beneath you make you look unhelpful. Unhelpful players are scum, wether it says so in their role description or not.

My original vote on BabyJesus was about lack of content and vote hopping. This may well be standard play, but play I don't like. he's then go on to start posting and providing some info. While it's not the mostest helpfulish ever, Harry Potter's voting looks worse.

I'd say more pressure on BJ tomorrow is the correct play, while HP today is the lynch.

Your mileage may vary.

wow...I think I have my play for tomorrow...just...wow...

Baby Jesus accusation only holds water if Harry is scum. In fact, that sort of comment is setting up an argument for a later claim that mathcam (or anyone else deflecting) is scum as well.

Pretty happy with either BJ or Harry Potter as the lynch now, as it provides information on a fair few people's motives.

your voting pattern is highly suspect

No, it isn't.

No content.

You see it's posts like that make me want to return my vote on BJ. Your voting pattern is poor, and there is a case to answer. Your dismissal of it as beneath you make you look unhelpful. Unhelpful players are scum, wether it says so in their role description or not.

My original vote on BabyJesus was about lack of content and vote hopping. This may well be standard play, but play I don't like. he's then go on to start posting and providing some info. While it's not the mostest helpfulish ever, Harry Potter's voting looks worse.

I'd say more pressure on BJ tomorrow is the correct play, while HP today is the lynch.

Your mileage may vary.

wow...I think I have my play for tomorrow...just...wow...I don't even know where to start with this...O.O

[Mastermind of Sin]

those two quotes were right after this one from a page or two earlier...

Oops, it was silent speaker.

Unvote: BabyJesus

Vote: Harry Potter

I half like BJ's defence, and I was originally voting for lack of content. I admonish both the Masons for not talking as even not knowing the alignment, I'm sure you could help each other, or while away the nights with some info passing.

I don't like Harry Potter's vote on BJ, along with the rest of his play.

I have some concerns on ibashea's pursuit onto BJ, as there's a little bit of desperation sounding in their posts. However, it has got BJ posting.

which is interesting, especially since BJ hadn't put up an even remotely decent defense yet...I also want to know why TheCesspit thinks Ibby sounds

desparate?

[Mastermind of Sin]

His pm probably says something like "you are mafia" so he most likely assumed that everyone else's said "you are protown". Busted, lolz.

[Mastermind of Sin]

So is anyone besides me noticing that people keep trying to put people in Jack Quinn's office? First mathcam was switched with Ibby and became Jack Quinn, now Armlx was made Jack Quinn in mathcam's place. Interesting. Not sure what to make of it.

[Mastermind of Sin]

But why switch unless he has a reason to distrust the current occupant? And what makes him trust the new occupant more, only to distrust them later?

[Mastermind of Sin]

How's this for a theory? The office changer is scum with mathcam, and he switched mathcam to a new office to try and get him a better role, but now that office is no longer useful to him, so they are trying to move him to yet an even better office.

[Mastermind of Sin]

that's true.

[Mastermind of Sin]

interesting...

[Mastermind of Sin]

We've hit one scum and one SK out of 26 players, leaving:

armlx -- Jack Quinn, formerly Jack Kay
Uraj45 (replacing Colonel Kurtz) -- Jack Thomas
Coron -- Jack Evans
Fuldu -- Jack Hall
Harry_Potter -- Jack Adams
ibaesha -- Jack Johnson, formerly Jack Quinn
Mastermind of Sin -- Jack Lincoln
Max -- Jack Phillips
MrBuddyLee -- Jack Nelson, formerly Jack Fox
mystery meat of doom -- Jack Davis
PookyTheMagicalBear -- Jack Macdonald
spectrumvoid (replacing Shamrock) -- Jack Irving
mathcam (replacing SpamWise) -- Jack K, formerly Jack Q, formerly JackJ
TheCesspit -- Jack Zimmerman
Yosarian2 -- formerly Jack Xavier

There are five or six scum left, most likely. It's pretty amazing that we have like squat for night results. It's even more amazing that we're basically at panic time and yet you're all acting like this is a tea party.

Here's the discussion today, summarized:

Fuldu wonders what's in MBL's office
Coron throws out three suspicions with no evidence
MoS wonders what's in jack quinn's office
Ibby expresses suspicion of mathcam
spectrumvoid asks about lurker replacement
cam: defensive post
yos: explains bj's lynch, mild attack on cam re: bj
mathcam: 100% defensive response
spectrum: brief bj comment
MoS: back to office talk
Uraj: content post pointing at Coron
fuldu: more office speculation
coron: defends his indefensible record this game
yos: more on BJ
ibby: more on BJ, more suspicion of cam
MoS says "Interesting"
cesspit: office speculation
ibby: defensive post, reiterates cam suspicions
uraj: office talk
yos: office talk
armlx: suspicious of ibby

Lurking today:
HarryPotter
Max
mmod
Pooky

The lurkers are useless--they should be replaced immediately. cam, Mos and cesspit are not trying to find scum at all--they are probably scum. Everyone else just isn't trying. And I'd rather not lose, so if you're town, kick it up a notch please.

You clearly aren't reading very well.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Alright, we just went back to the: not a good reason stage.

Outing more masons than will confirm you masons=bad idea unless there is only one known mason alive.

I'm fine with his play.

I'm not. He could have stated 'I can talk to certain people at night'. This would have been the truth and not outing anyone.

He didn't. I don't like the way he played, and think he could have claimed smarter. It looked like a good lynch to me. It wasn't, but I wasn't alone.

Now, why are you questioning the play yesterday? Why not question it then, rather than today now it's over and it's easier to second guess? You've been quiet and called on it, I reckon, and trying to youself look good. For what end, I don't know.

I need to jog the grey cells, but wasn't there a long finger of suspicion over mathcam ealry on Day 2 as well?

Coron didn't post from Jul 31 until Sept. 16 or so. Up until his return for lurkerland, his biggest contribution seems to have been clamoring for Spamwise to get lynched, who was replaced by mathcam and still seems to be one of his top suspects. But that's another debate. He clearly wasn't here for the last day, so he couldn't have posted when the wagon was actually happening. Now, whether he lurked purposefully or on accident, that's something we'll have to determine.

[Mastermind of Sin]

your voting pattern is highly suspect

No, it isn't.

No content.

You see it's posts like that make me want to return my vote on BJ. Your voting pattern is poor, and there is a case to answer. Your dismissal of it as beneath you make you look unhelpful. Unhelpful players are scum, wether it says so in their role description or not.

My original vote on BabyJesus was about lack of content and vote hopping. This may well be standard play, but play I don't like. he's then go on to start posting and providing some info. While it's not the mostest helpfulish ever, Harry Potter's voting looks worse.

I'd say more pressure on BJ tomorrow is the correct play, while HP today is the lynch.

Your mileage may vary.

wow...I think I have my play for tomorrow...just...wow...

Baby Jesus accusation only holds water if Harry is scum. In fact, that sort of comment is setting up an argument for a later claim that mathcam (or anyone else deflecting) is scum as well.

Pretty happy with either BJ or Harry Potter as the lynch now, as it provides information on a fair few people's motives.

your voting pattern is highly suspect

No, it isn't.

No content.

You see it's posts like that make me want to return my vote on BJ. Your voting pattern is poor, and there is a case to answer. Your dismissal of it as beneath you make you look unhelpful. Unhelpful players are scum, wether it says so in their role description or not.

My original vote on BabyJesus was about lack of content and vote hopping. This may well be standard play, but play I don't like. he's then go on to start posting and providing some info. While it's not the mostest helpfulish ever, Harry Potter's voting looks worse.

I'd say more pressure on BJ tomorrow is the correct play, while HP today is the lynch.

Your mileage may vary.

wow...I think I have my play for tomorrow...just...wow...I don't even know where to start with this...O.O

I almost forgot about this. Combined with Cesspit's vote on Coron not making ANY sense (you say he's trying to set up the lynch with no support from anyone, and think he's scum because school kept him too busy to post? wtf?), I believe a

vote: TheCesspit

is in order.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Ibby's actions yesterday seemed to be that of "I'm pissed off I have to talk to someone other than my scum group." IMHO.

That's complete bullshit and shows that you aren't reading this game thoroughly. I unvoted BJ for quite a while yesterday on the basis of WANTING to give us a chance to talk in the case he was pro-town. An action for which I had to explain more than once and took quite a bit of heat over. His unhelpful attitude continued. He refused to defend cases against him. Then he lied about his role. Even if it wasn't for all of that, it's not even in my nature to be as you describe. I'm not sure what you're trying to pull here Coron or if you are simply being completely stupid.

Can ibby talk to Inhim or was he the middle man between you two?

Why don't you try reading the game? This has already been explained. I cannot talk to mathcam. I have NEVER been able to talk to mathcam. I was able to talk to BJ and InHim. They were able to talk to me and each other. The only thing mathcam has to do with it is that he (Spamwise) used to have my office. In addition, I gave a complete rundown of what myself and InHim discussed last night which you have also apparently failed to read.

erm, i think Coron was asking if BJ was the middle man between you and inhim, or if it was a 3-way mason. Which, you seem to have answered, even though you didnt' understand his question.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Wait Wait Wait. WTF? On the front page it says mathcam used to be jack johnson.

??

???

Confused.

Also I thought you said you could never talk to Mathcam and so he WOULDN'T know the mechanic for sure. Pretty much I'm confused as to why you think it was "pretty clear from that"

When mathcam was Jack Johnson, Ibby was NOT, so she couldn't talk to him, obv.

[Mastermind of Sin]

those two quotes were right after this one from a page or two earlier...

Oops, it was silent speaker.

Unvote: BabyJesus

Vote: Harry Potter

I half like BJ's defence, and I was originally voting for lack of content. I admonish both the Masons for not talking as even not knowing the alignment, I'm sure you could help each other, or while away the nights with some info passing.

I don't like Harry Potter's vote on BJ, along with the rest of his play.

I have some concerns on ibashea's pursuit onto BJ, as there's a little bit of desperation sounding in their posts. However, it has got BJ posting.

which is interesting, especially since BJ hadn't put up an even remotely decent defense yet...I also want to know why TheCesspit thinks Ibby sounds

desparate?

sorry, add this quote to the pile, and the three together should show what I meant. this one came before the other two, as I said in the quote.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Huh? What did I do?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Yeah, i don't know where armlx got that logic. Up until the last 2 paragraphs it was at least somewhat logical, but that last stuff is ridiculous.

[Mastermind of Sin]

HarryPotter, what do you think of bluemonick's actions in the days leading up to his lynch? Who do you think he was implicating, and do you think he was telling the truth about there being multiple scum groups?

Armlx, what do you think about Max's "un-Maxlike" actions this game. What do you think about the fact that scum didn't try to wagon him at all?

Out of curiousity, what makes you think that there is even a question of multiple scum groups or not? In any large game, I go into the game assuming that we have multiple scum groups, because I have yet to see one where we didn't, unless that was the premise of the entire game (which it isn't in this instance).

Since you're asking questions, I've got a few for you.

MoS has just demonstrated that he actually reread the thread. In light of everyone else's apathy, I choose to see that as a pro-town move on his part. Nice work mang.

As nice as it is to get complimented, you failed to actually comment on my suspicions. Do you agree with my assessment of TheCesspit? Do you believe he's scummy as well?

THE LYNCHING OF OUR ONLY SCUM

PART I: THE WAGON

Huh? I don't understand BMQ's argument against Yosarian and I

really

don't understand bluemonick's jump to that bandwagon. It seems like BMQ is suggesting that Yosarian's playstyle is different from past games, which I don't see, but if he'd care to elaborate a bit more, I might. But bluemonick is new enough that that can't be what he's saying. And the comment about "less of an investigator" and "more like 'laying back'" is, frankly, nonsense. Yosarian seems to me to be pushing as hard at the issues he finds important in this game as he usually does. I happen not to find the particular issue he's chosen to be especially noteworthy, but I can see the logic behind it. Coupled with the fact that he got himself blowed up, which seems likely to be a scum mechanism, I think this looks like a scummy pair of votes.

vote: bluemonick

Many things that I agree with.

unvote; vote bluemonick

Bogre claimed vanilla townie at like 4 votes or something.

Oh, I forgot about that.

Can we just lynch him, then?

I'm up for that. I really doubt a major change before deadline.

unvote; vote Bogre

I think that puts him at lynch -1. Anyone got a hammah?

I think these posts need to be reread and looked back on. Bogre claimed townie but yet he was still lynched by this two towards the end. Yosaiain2, that is really suspicious, you just saying, "Can we just lynch him, then?" Isnt that what a Scum wants to do, Lycnch Townies.

Ibaesha, you seem to be following the footsteps of Ibaesha as these posts I quoted were 3 posts right in a row. To me both of you are Suspiciosus right now, and seem to be working as Scum Partners. I already voted for Yosaiain2 so:

FOS: Ibaesha

And this is the main reason I voted for Yosaisin2 but didnt explain it then all of a sudden people start to bandwagon me for no apparent reason than "I seemed to agree with so and so to easily". Im sorry I just didnt explain myself better.

Ibaesha, you seem to be following the footesteps of YOSAIAIN2.........

More than likely..........ibaesha.
Because he's very Scumadeltic
You want a Claim? Im Scum. the Last Post was Committing Sucide already.
Btw, Nabbed by my Own Scum Partner.

bluemonick (12): Fuldu, ibaesha, PookyTheMagicalBear, spectrumvoid,

Fritzler, Brian McQueso

, TheCesspit,

Masterchief

, Colonel Kurtz,

BabyJesus

, Max,

the silent speaker

Anyone who doesn't think scum jumped on that wagon as quick as possible is a monkey's uncle. There was very little reason not to bus bluemonick.

Pooky, spectrumvoid, Cesspit, Kurtz, Max all piled on the bluemonick wagon with little ado. It was a wagon that evolved, if you believe in conspiracy theories, to take the heat off Colonel Kurtz who was one of the leading vote getters at the time.

Of the various reasonings for votes on bluemonick, Kurtz's was the oddest.

Also, note that while Fuldu made the case against bluemonick, it was Ibby who bluemonick zeroed in on and tried to implicate. It's such a bizarre transposition that you'd almost have to think that either he was genuinely pissed at his scumpartner or that he intentionally picked Ibby to "cleverly" conceal the fact that it was scumpartner Fuldu who really nailed him.

I'll be VERY surprised if neither of {Fuldu, Ibby} are scum. I'll also be surprised if both are.

PART II: THE AFTERMATH

The next day, no one talked about the strange goings on at the end of yesterday. I imagine it had been the hot topic amongst scum the night before:

(a)"Wow, he tried to set up pro-town Ibby, at least he went out half smart."
or
(b)"Wow, he tried to take you out, Ibbs. What a complete jackass."

If (a), I'd expect scum to have at least taken a poke at her the next day.

If (b), I imagine the gameplan for the next morning was to talk about something else entirely and see if people would just forget the nasty goings on.

What happened?

Kurtz
spectrumvoid
Yos
MoS
Cesspit
All come out quick with distractions. "Jeez, I thought Lordy was scum," followed by a long two-page dissertation on the office-blower-upper.

I feel terrible for Ibby if she got outed by her scumpartner, but it easily could have been WIFOM as well. The reaction the next day makes me more likely to believe, however, that her scumpartners pushed an agenda of distraction in the morning.

I am open to alternative interpretations.

I noticed you mentioned my name somewhere in this mammoth of a post, and i was wondering if you could point out what you were referring to me about, since I don't understand.

[Mastermind of Sin]

still waiting for MBL's replies.

[Mastermind of Sin]

the "Huh? What did I do?" was the equivalent of my third question, which you obviously didn't understand, hence why I restated it in a later post.

1. I for one have never seen a single scum group in a game this large, and it's certainly not

common

. The general assumption is NOT that we have one scum group, then certain things may point to having two. If anything, you assume 2 scum groups, then you may get clues that point to only one, or even more than 2.

2. Yet when I quoted TheCesspit and voiced my suspicions of him multiple times over multiple days (which invalidates your assumption that I'm not trying to find scum at all), you failed to address my points against him. Saying you think a person is scummy means nothing at all unless you have some sort of argument to back it up. I was asking you to comment on his actions, and since you said you found him scummy, I expected it would be fairly easy for you to produce and argument to support that view. Instead, I see you skirting the issue by hiding behind small accusations of scumminess and attacking me as well.

3. To be perfectly honest, I wasn't really paying attention to the thread during the whole bluemonick thing, which is why I was only posting occasionally. The reason I never said anything about it the next day was because I didn't know there was anything to say, since I hadn't really paid attention to the previous day. I would greatly appreciate it if you could articulate where bluemonick "screwed up the sunset before", as you put it, since I still haven't read that part of the thread, and I don't have the time to go back and review it.

[Mastermind of Sin]

the "Huh? What did I do?" was the equivalent of my third question, which you obviously didn't understand, hence why I restated it in a later post.

1. I for one have never seen a single scum group in a game this large, and it's certainly not

common

.

Huh? You've never seen it?

Look at Stephen King mafia; just one scum group and a SK. Or Kingmaker I. Or several other games.

I'm sure you've seen it before. It's not that uncomon.

I wasn't in either of those games, hence the not seeing.

[Mastermind of Sin]

FoS: Harry_Potter

If there was more there, what was it? I'm not saying there wasn't, but i want to hear it from you.

[Mastermind of Sin]

So you think that spectrumvoid could be scumand happen to take a random guess, one that could completely backfire and get her killed right away, that protown role pms don't state alignment either?

[Mastermind of Sin]

I disagree with Uraj's case, but to each his own, i guess.

[Mastermind of Sin]

???

[Mastermind of Sin]

Do you think Cesspit is suspicious?

Do you think Cesspit is lying?

Do you think Cesspit has information?

yes; possibly; information on what?

[Mastermind of Sin]

>< relating to those three scenarios...that was directed at Cesspit, correct?

i don't remember. You'll have to put it in context for me, I don't have time to reread.

[Mastermind of Sin]

oh wow.

Unvote, Vote: MMoD, IGMEOY: TheCesspit

[Mastermind of Sin]

waiting for what?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Quick Summary of TheCesspit:
Day 1:
Post 0 - votes viper
Post 1 - changes vote to DGB
Post 2 - unvotes
Post 3 - votes viper again
Post 4 - unvotes
Post 5 - correcting someone's statement
Post 6 - posting away notice
Post 7 - votes mlaker
Post 8 - changes vote to Bogre (replacement)
Post 9 - mentions Deadwood the TV series
Post 10 - more non game-related stuff (actors in the TV series)
Post 11 - Defends himself by arguing that his vote on DGB wasn't scummy. Changes vote to Spamwise
Post 12 - Agrees that he misunderstood Fuldu and tries to rexplain his vote. Makes note of mlaker/bogre and Spamwise's actions
Post 13 - Asks spamwise for a case on scummier people and asks about non-voters
Post 14 - Lists lurkers/non-posters
Post 15 - Claims the suspicion on Spamwise built after he started getting attacked
Post 16 - Asks about Fritzler post listing some random people who he says aren't suspicious
Post 17 - More comment on non-posters
Post 18 - Sarcastic reply to Fritzler's reply to his question
Day 2:
Post 19 - Speculation on the three levels assigned to players (Which brings me to a revelation I just had. What if the three levels are as follows: alignment, role(office), player?)
Post 20 - Takes back his speculation
Post 21 - Speculation on office moving; Not sure who is scum, wonders why were aren't going after Spamwise again, defends lordy
Post 22 - Claims on

Day 2

that he should be expected to use craplogic (when he defended lordy), states that he's seen nothing change in Yos's play, calls bluemonick's weak vote/follow-up

interesting

, Goes into detail about how BMQ's "I'm trapping" should be looked into and discussed, then

votes bluemonick

Post 23 - Random claim that he's a mechanic that attaches turbo boosters to bandwagons.
Post 24 - Comes back to Spamwise again, questioning why he's avoiding the bluemonick wagon and diverting attention from it
Day 3:
Post 25 - Votes spamwise (Next Day), saying he was protecting bluemonick
Post 26 - claims insight on the office moving, doesn't share it, after i attack him for ignoring the discussion of it
Post 27 - speculation on the third level of role assignments
Post 28 - Claims that one of the three scenarios I presented was true (which STD quoted just a little while ago). Votes BabyJesus, saying he's :not helpful:
Post 29 - Calls BJ's vote on Harry Potter spurious, confirms his vote
Post 30 - comment on bluemonick's "sellout", thinking it referred to Ibby but was WIFOM anyways
Post 31 - Changes vote to Harry Potter, says he likes BJ's defense, was only voting him for lack of content, admonishes Masons for not sharing information. Says he doesn't like HP's vote on BJ, says Ibby sounds desparate.
Post 32 - Says BJ is posting no contect, we should pressure him after we lynch HP
Post 33 - Comment on BJ's accusation of HP; Happy with BJ or HP lynch
Post 34 - Changes vote to BJ because of the "my pm sas I'm protown" post. Says he thinks BJ and HP are both scum and BJ must be trying to bus HP. Says I should "realize" that he says stupid things all the time. Backpedals on his comment on Ibby's desparation.
Post 35 - Response to MBL not liking his Post 34
Day 4:
Post 36 - Speculates on triangulation of office mover in order to find out who it is
Post 37 - Can't see a reason why office mover is more or less likely to be scum then states a reason why he would expect it to be scum
Post 38 - Explains why he still doesn't like BJ's play (defense of Coron's attack on everyone that went after BJ). Calls attention to there being suspicion of mathcam on Day 2
Post 39 - Agrees with mathcam that people need to remember the randomness of the game and votes Coron for trying to set up a lynch, especially since he confessed to missing yesterday on purpose
Post 40 - Asks MBL how he is protecting Mathcam (MBL said he was protecting cam in a previous post)
Post 41 - Says he wants to know what he's done so he can defend himself in response to MBL's promise to post an in depth analysis of TheCesspit (you'll finally get your chance, eh? Even though you had a chance yesterday and didn't take it)
Post 42 - Votes pooky for lurking and says he can't figure out the Ibby/MBL/MoS interaction, but he's sure the scum are getting by through lurking.

Analysis:
Day 1 -
He changed his vote status way too much in the beginning of the game for my tastes. He doesn't have a contributing (defending himself doesn't count) post until his interaction with spamwise late in Day 1. To me it looks like he had about 2 contributing posts all of day 1, while still posting often enough that he seemed to be saying a lot. If he hadn't had so many posts that contributed

nothing

, I don't think this would be as big a deal.

Notes:
Pressured Bogre/mlaker, who was protown
Pressured spamwise

Day 2 -
I really take issue with post 22. First off, you can't just say "I use craplogic all the time early game" and expect that to exonerate you. That's just trying to get an excuse for bad behavior. Also, you barely mentioned bluemonick's actions, went into more detail about BMQ's scumminess, but hopped on the bluemonick wagon in the SAME POST. THEN you turn around attack spamwise for diverting attention from the bluemonick wagon, which I see as an attempt to bring attention back to spamwise and divert attention from the bluemonick wagon.

Notes:
Was on the bluemonick wagon, who was scum
Pressured spamwise

Day 3 -
I see Post 28 (and i did back then as well) as him either telling the truth or claiming it because it was convenient as scum. And he may well have scum info about office moving, which would correllate with his expectation that the office mover would be scum. Then began the series of posts that caught my attention. He jumps on the BJ wagon, criticizing BJ's vote of Harry Potter. Then he changes his vote to Harry Potter, claiming to like BJ's defense (although there was none to speak of), and criticizes HP's vote on BJ. Then he equlizes his position, giving him to opportunity to join either wagon by claiming that he's now suspicious of both of them. When BJ makes the critical "mistake" that was garnering him a lot of votes, he takes the opportunity to hop back over to the wagon, while still saying we should lynch HP, too. He also says he'll respond to my accusations about this on the next day, but he has done nothing to mention it so far on Day 4.

Notes:
Pressured spamwise/mathcam

Day 4 -
He hasn't done much yet today. He still needs to defend himself from yesterday's attacks. I'm also interested by the fact that he randomly calls attention to the fact that people (especially himself) were suspicious of mathcam/spamwise back on Day 2 or so, out of the blue. I would be interested to see if MBL can justify that TheCesspit was protecting mathcam, because i'm not really seeing it. If he can convince me otherwise, that would be REALLY inconsistent on TheCesspit's part. And now even though he's been calling for spamwise to be lynched practically all game, he wants to go after Pooky for lurking all of a sudden. That doesn't sit well with me, not at all.

Notes:
Called suspicion on mathcam/spamwise

Also,

unvote, vote: TheCesspit

since mmod has promised (with threat of replacement if he fails) a full reread plus contribution, in a addition to the fact that I've discovered several more reasons that I think TheCesspit is scum, so my conviction is strengthened.

Is this what you guys wanted? Sorry it's so long, I know some people don't like full PBPAs, but in TheCesspit's case I believe that part of the argument against him is looking at the total volume of his posts compared to the actual contribution, so it needed to be documented.

[Mastermind of Sin]

*poke* cmon ppl, 2 posts in 24 hours ain't cuttin' it.

[Mastermind of Sin]

TheCesspit needs to post NOW, and everyone else needs to stop lurking plz.

[Mastermind of Sin]

WTF, no posts in 24 hours!?

MOD: Requesting a Deadline, please, as well as prods on everyone in the game except me, spectrumvoid, mathcam, Fuldu, Yosarian2, and Save The Dragons.

[Mastermind of Sin]

It wasn't a US holiday this weekend, and I severely doubt that all 9 or 10 of the people who weren't posting are from Canada or are Jewish (I believe there was a Jewish holiday on Saturday). There is no good excuse for people to say almost nothing for 72 hours in a game. As for my prod/deadline requests, that was specifically to get people posting. It's not like a deadline isn't retractable if activity picks up, and my requesting it has already picked up on activity. Look, we've had another 4 posts in the last 3 hours, where we only had like 6 posts in previous 72. I'd say my request served it's purpose, if you ask me. When things get out of hand, extreme problems require extreme measures. That's what I did, and if you have a problem with it, live with it.

Armlx, you're going to have to do better than just a general statement of displeasure. Which "wagons" do you take issue with, and why? I spent an hour doing a PBPA of TheCesspit because people kept asking me to rehash my suspicions, and I'm sure as hell not gonna let you just sit aside and ignore it. If you don't agree with me, give me a reason why, don't just say it's not "overly useful". That's a bunch of crap, and you know it.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Today's Columbus Day, MoS, which for whatever reason is a federal holiday. Lots of schools are closed, most people with government jobs have the day off. Basically, anything associated with the government is out today, though very little else.

Oh damn, that came and went without me even noticing. I'm used to having a break for the weekend, but my college is ev0l and didn't give us anything

[Mastermind of Sin]

Major FoS: MBL

If I wasn't already voting scum, and if you hadn't made me even more sure that he's scum based on your actions, I'd be voting you now.

2.

cam, Mos and cesspit are not trying to find scum at all--they are probably scum.

I also commented on Cesspit's scumminess twice earlier in the thread. So a negative nineteen points to MoS for not reading the thread to see that I've already said Cesspit is scummy three times. Scum is too lazy to read the thread. But then again, so's this whole damned town...

Let's look at that, shall we?

this comment makes me sure BabyJesus is a lying liar scum.

Yes, I've voted between HP and BJ. Why, because I think both are scum, but can't work out which is the scummier. I think BJ is trying to throw his scum partner under the bus for a later attack.

I don't like the certitude of these statements.

Then TheCesspit responds to you, and you never address this issue again.

I'm thinking Ibby is scum. There's something about her attitude that's disconcerting. Vague threats without delivering on the specifics.

FOS: Cesspit

for helping scum narrow down the officer mover. I think it's more than likely that the office mover is protown.

Again, Cesspit defends himself and you leave him alone.

The lurkers are useless--they should be replaced immediately. cam, Mos and cesspit are not trying to find scum at all--they are probably scum. Everyone else just isn't trying. And I'd rather not lose, so if you're town, kick it up a notch please.

You group TheCesspit in with cam and I in a generally accusation of scumminess, and never come back to it.

The point that made me sure that BJ was scum was this

I think mathcam is scum and cesspit's protecting him for whatever reason. Cam's smarter than to lynch BJ primarily on that claim. He's a highly logical player and that reasoning simply doesn't cut it.

unvote, vote: mathcam

This accusation still doesn't make sense to me. You have been questioned on it multiple times, and have chose to ignore it completely.

No, no I'm not scum. Please explain to me, Fuldu, why trying to drag the (not one, not two) SEVEN megalurkers we have in this game into sunlight is a bad idea. And it's not all I've done--I've commented on the scumminess I see in cam, cesspit and Ibby, primarily due to their indifferent tone. I'm also surprised Yos is taking the impending loss as well as he is, and I'm thinking there's something not quite right with that either.

I'll admit that I'm losing faith in the possibility that town can win this game. But I'll tell you one thing--if you kill me as town, you'll have the same lurker problem tomorrow as you face right now. How do you plan on sorting the scum from the lazy then?

Here you lump TheCesspit in with Ibby and cam, talking about how you're already commented on their scumminess, for a reason that you've

never accused of him.

THE LYNCHING OF OUR ONLY SCUM

PART I: THE WAGON

Huh? I don't understand BMQ's argument against Yosarian and I

really

don't understand bluemonick's jump to that bandwagon. It seems like BMQ is suggesting that Yosarian's playstyle is different from past games, which I don't see, but if he'd care to elaborate a bit more, I might. But bluemonick is new enough that that can't be what he's saying. And the comment about "less of an investigator" and "more like 'laying back'" is, frankly, nonsense. Yosarian seems to me to be pushing as hard at the issues he finds important in this game as he usually does. I happen not to find the particular issue he's chosen to be especially noteworthy, but I can see the logic behind it. Coupled with the fact that he got himself blowed up, which seems likely to be a scum mechanism, I think this looks like a scummy pair of votes.

vote: bluemonick

Many things that I agree with.

unvote; vote bluemonick

Bogre claimed vanilla townie at like 4 votes or something.

Oh, I forgot about that.

Can we just lynch him, then?

I'm up for that. I really doubt a major change before deadline.

unvote; vote Bogre

I think that puts him at lynch -1. Anyone got a hammah?

I think these posts need to be reread and looked back on. Bogre claimed townie but yet he was still lynched by this two towards the end. Yosaiain2, that is really suspicious, you just saying, "Can we just lynch him, then?" Isnt that what a Scum wants to do, Lycnch Townies.

Ibaesha, you seem to be following the footsteps of Ibaesha as these posts I quoted were 3 posts right in a row. To me both of you are Suspiciosus right now, and seem to be working as Scum Partners. I already voted for Yosaiain2 so:

FOS: Ibaesha

And this is the main reason I voted for Yosaisin2 but didnt explain it then all of a sudden people start to bandwagon me for no apparent reason than "I seemed to agree with so and so to easily". Im sorry I just didnt explain myself better.

Ibaesha, you seem to be following the footesteps of YOSAIAIN2.........

More than likely..........ibaesha.
Because he's very Scumadeltic
You want a Claim? Im Scum. the Last Post was Committing Sucide already.
Btw, Nabbed by my Own Scum Partner.

bluemonick (12): Fuldu, ibaesha, PookyTheMagicalBear, spectrumvoid,

Fritzler, Brian McQueso

, TheCesspit,

Masterchief

, Colonel Kurtz,

BabyJesus

, Max,

the silent speaker

Anyone who doesn't think scum jumped on that wagon as quick as possible is a monkey's uncle. There was very little reason not to bus bluemonick.

Pooky, spectrumvoid, Cesspit, Kurtz, Max all piled on the bluemonick wagon with little ado. It was a wagon that evolved, if you believe in conspiracy theories, to take the heat off Colonel Kurtz who was one of the leading vote getters at the time.

Of the various reasonings for votes on bluemonick, Kurtz's was the oddest.

Also, note that while Fuldu made the case against bluemonick, it was Ibby who bluemonick zeroed in on and tried to implicate. It's such a bizarre transposition that you'd almost have to think that either he was genuinely pissed at his scumpartner or that he intentionally picked Ibby to "cleverly" conceal the fact that it was scumpartner Fuldu who really nailed him.

I'll be VERY surprised if neither of {Fuldu, Ibby} are scum. I'll also be surprised if both are.

PART II: THE AFTERMATH

The next day, no one talked about the strange goings on at the end of yesterday. I imagine it had been the hot topic amongst scum the night before:

(a)"Wow, he tried to set up pro-town Ibby, at least he went out half smart."
or
(b)"Wow, he tried to take you out, Ibbs. What a complete jackass."

If (a), I'd expect scum to have at least taken a poke at her the next day.

If (b), I imagine the gameplan for the next morning was to talk about something else entirely and see if people would just forget the nasty goings on.

What happened?

Kurtz
spectrumvoid
Yos
MoS
Cesspit
All come out quick with distractions. "Jeez, I thought Lordy was scum," followed by a long two-page dissertation on the office-blower-upper.

I feel terrible for Ibby if she got outed by her scumpartner, but it easily could have been WIFOM as well. The reaction the next day makes me more likely to believe, however, that her scumpartners pushed an agenda of distraction in the morning.

I am open to alternative interpretations.

Here's the first semi-strong attack you made on TheCesspit. He piled on the bluemonick wagon and then seem to want to distract away from it. However, you had, up to this point, completely ignored all of the charges I had brought against TheCesspit, one which I had specifically asked you to comment on. This was your response to my request, as quoted earlier in this post:

2.

cam, Mos and cesspit are not trying to find scum at all--they are probably scum.

I also commented on Cesspit's scumminess twice earlier in the thread. So a negative nineteen points to MoS for not reading the thread to see that I've already said Cesspit is scummy three times. Scum is too lazy to read the thread. But then again, so's this whole damned town...

None of your accusations against Cesspit had anything to do with my points against him, so you completely sidestepped the issue.

I made the bluemonick case in my past few posts, but to get the full impact you need to go back and read the thread from the moment he entered the game.

Same with Max... read his posts and people's reactions to him and give your impressions. It's just... not right.

More in depth on Cesspit to come.

This was the last post you ever made regarding TheCesspit. Now I came along and put in effort to restate my arguments against TheCesspit in full, and you not only completely ignore me AGAIN, you try to push a lynch on a lurker to distract from the charges against him. So far this game you have just lightly pressured TheCesspit without ever following up on your suspicions, which has effectively been a distancing tactic designed to not get TheCesspit under fire from other people too much. Other than your weak distancing arguments, you have completely ignored anything having to do with TheCesspit, even when directly asked to comment on him. At first I was just annoyed that you weren't paying attention, but this is way too much to be coincidence. I'm pretty sure now that you are TheCesspit's scumbuddy, so I'll be sure to vote you tomorrow.

[Mastermind of Sin]

You certainly haven't done a good job of posting a reasonable argument to convince anyone that those people you speak of are scummier. Here's the point where Seol would say "gotcha on dwa". The only exception is that rather than it being a weak argument, it was just the easiest one to answer to. So, "gotcha on dea" is more appropriate. Gotcha, MBL!

[Mastermind of Sin]

Great. Now you're misrepresenting me while STILL ignoring the arguments against you.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I try sometimes. Skipping class is fun.

[Mastermind of Sin]

What do you think of TheCesspit? Or Pooky (to humor MBL)?

[Mastermind of Sin]

kk, thnx.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I GIVE UP!

[Mastermind of Sin]

MoS, you demand that I address your accusations of The Cesspit and yet you refuse to touch Pooky despite being asked to address him specifically several times. I hope you realize how scummy that appears.

Please share with us your take on Pooky.

Actually, if you had actually read my posts, I've already explained that I think your argument against Pooky is nothing more than an attempt at diversion. You're using his reputation to try and get him lynched, picking him out of a multitude of lurkers. I know that pooky will come through eventually. The fact that he's not posting much only makes him slightly scummier than everyone who is posting, so he's right in line with the rest of the lurkers that you failed to call out. I certainly don't intend to give him leeway for too many more days, but right now I have a lot scummier people to deal with, such as your scumbuddy, TheCesspit.

Ball's in your court, MBL.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'm gonna read the cesspit's post history without looking at mos's comments, then see how the observations line up. The hyperaggressive way you're pursuing him on what I recall as slight evidence makes me very suspicious, but we'll see.

And you clearly have no interest in addressing the Pooky issue.

I know that pooky will come through eventually

You take it that he's town on faith? What the fuck is that?

If he's town he'll come through, if he's scum he won't. It's certainly not a pressing issue now when I have scum sitting right in front of me.

[Mastermind of Sin]

MMOD's last past sounds scummy. So basically he just said that he didn't read through the post carefully, and that's his excuse. I also don't think a 'strong reaction' is needed. I have usually needed to do a reread to get a better read on someone because I generally don't have 'strong reactions' the first time.

FOS: MMOD

Like MBL, I'm also suspicious of why MoS is thinking Pooky is town. Pooky has been around too little for me to get a good read.

FOS: MOS

Actually, I'm not thinking that Pooky is town, but I AM thinking that there isn't nearly strong enough evidence to justify going after him when there are much better candidates to pursue. It's certainly worth pressuring him to stop lurking, but that also applies to all the other lurkers that MBL has paid next to no attention to, singling out Pooky just because Pooky is

usually

more prolific. There is no excuse for letting the other lurkers slide by. If you're going to call out one, call out the rest as well.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Does someone else want to field MBL's post? I could break it down and show how utterly scummy it is, but I'm tired of having to carry the weight around here. Seriously, MBL and I are the only ones doing anything in this game. I really don't want to have to go through the effort of pointing out everything that's wrong if the only person who's even around to respond to it is MBL, and we all know he's going to disagree anyways, so what's the point in even trying? MBL and I might as well agree to disagree, because our arguments aren't helping anything as long as no one has anything of substance to say about them.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Does someone else want to field MBL's post? I could break it down and show how utterly scummy it is,

O.o

Umm...his post was his take on everyone in the game. I'm not going to sit here and say scum wouldn't do that, but I'm not going to accuse such a post of being scummy when I fail to see what's wrong with it.

If you think MBL is town, don't bother.

If you think he's scum, show it.

I am not convinced, so I won't vote him.

I'm more convinced of either Cesspit or MMoD. I have stated my case against harrypotter, and I fos:pooky to see who would respond, not to fos him. MoS said nothing, which makes me wonder.

I'd be willing to go after Fuldu or Coron. Right now I think the play is Cess or MMoD.

Still, we may need some prods.

I didn't mean that you had to disagree with him, I was just hoping that someone would respond to what he said. I can't respond to everything that's said, i just don't have that kind of time. I didn't even see you fos pooky, I'll have to look back and find that. I just wish that more people would speak up so I don't have to do this by myself, it's rather frustrating.

[Mastermind of Sin]

FOS: Pooky

there is no reasoning to go with this, what do you want me to say about it? I can't comment on something that has no substance.

ps. MoS should know that Pooky's been at school in the U.S., at least as far as I know, since early September. So the China excuse really doesn't hold.

I really hate how you're trying to implicate me with statements like this. I never even said Pooky had an excuse to lurk, i never mentioned the fact that he'd been in China for the summer, especially since I know it's an irrelevant fact. The fact that you would try to link it to me specifically as if I had been implying that he was still in china and should know otherwise just rings of scum tactics to me.

[Mastermind of Sin]

lmfao, so you disagree with EVERYTHING in my post from start to finish, MoS? I gave my opinions of all 14 people... surely you concur on a few?

The fact that you find the need to blanket disparage me is yet another good reason why you're probably scum, MoS. Town see things in greys, not black and white.

I agree that other people still need to step it up, but god MoS you're looking worse by the minute. Your tapdance on Pooky is getting more amusing with every defense of him you post.

Sad thing is, I have a feeling you'd defend him blindly if you were town too...

Oh, and your claim that I've singled out Pooky amongst the lurkers is absurd. Please recall my attacks on all lurkers yesterday and earlier today, including posts with details on how each lurker differs in their scumminess. Pooky just happens to be the one who, oh I dunno, FABRICATED a complete fake strategy to cover for his lurking. The Dr. House thing is classic Pookyscum, from what I've seen.

stop misrepresenting me, please. I never said I disagreed with everything, but I do know that when i looked it over I saw a lot of stuff i took issue with. I'm just fucking tired of having this ping pong argument that's doing nothing but convincing us that the other is scum, and no one is even bothering to comment on it one way or another, so we aren't even accomplishing anything. It's funny that you accuse me of being scum for blanketly disparaging you, because that's exactly what I would've said about you. For the most part, you're responses to me have been just repeating that I'm probably scum and I'm acting wierd, and parroting the same damn things you've said over and over without ever responding to the actual points against you.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Baby Jesus? Pooky? You guys are in this game? ...Pooky's only posted 3 times since July 6th

this is a bit more normal for pooky than BJ, esp. since he's been in China and had off and on access

Dude, I said this in

August

. He had only posted 3 times since July 6th, which was all during the time period when he WAS in China. Since then, I haven't considered that to be a factor, since he would have had to be back at school by the beginning of September.

For the record, I thought you were referring to this recent post, which upon reading I failed to notice that it was a quote I had made.

I did the search... While I agree that MOS has been attacking TCP, he did mention this:

Fri Aug 25
this is a bit more normal for pooky than BJ, esp. since he's been in China and had off and on access

Hence probably why he didn't talk about the Pooky issue.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'm not parroting a thing and I'm not misrepresenting you, at least intentionally. I find you scummy primarily for your bizarre response to the raised Pooky issue. Also because you found Cesspit scummy for diverting from the BJ lynch, which we now know could easily be a pro-town act, and despite that you CONTINUED to push the Cesspit lynch based on the same argument (quoting the post where he diverted the BJ lynch). You've since levied other accusations, but that stretch was bizarre.

I'll see if there are any accusations you've levied against me that I haven't substantially addressed.

Actually, it is not the fact alone that he "diverted" from the BJ lynch that makes me suspicious. It's the fact that he diverted from the wagon (using the reasoning that he liked BJ's defense,

of which there had been NONE

), which would make him look more protown, then

rejoined

the wagon at a convenient moment, even though BJ was still acting about the same. the only difference was his "My pm says i'm protown" remark, which I don't consider to be a great reason to think he's scum IF you think the rest of his actions were protown. I accept that reason because it is scummy and it adds to the rest of his scummy actions, but TheCesspit was using it as the

catalyst

for his vote, even though he'd already declared BJ to not be worth voting based on his previous actions.

Does that explain it better for you?

[Mastermind of Sin]

there is no reasoning to go with this, what do you want me to say about it? I can't comment on something that has no substance.

Why do you say this now when I have explained it in a later post?

Because you said you found it

strange

that I didn't say anything about it when you did it originally.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Well if the Quinn office is the vig, then people have been moving people in and out anyways.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Actually, all we're doing is identifying that it is or is NOT the vig office since people keep getting moved into that office. It narrows the list of possible vig offices from hella many to hella many - 1. Big whoop.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Each team of scum probably knows the identity of 6-7 offices right now if they're doing the moving. That leaves 7-8 unknown, and eliminating one as a possible power office gives scum a pretty significant advantage in looking for power offices to move people into. If they have info based on people's slip-ups, it's an even bigger advantage.

Please knock off the office outing. Pooky, MoS, ibby, you should know better.

If the scum are doing the moving, they probably already KNOW what was in that office, unless they're just moving around random protown people for no reason. Which, by the way, wouldn't make a lot of sense.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Still waiting for MBL to answer the questions I've posted to him. He also fell for the "deliberately weak argument", answering the easy argument while ignoring the stronger stuff against him. That's classic scum play there. If I didn't think MBL was just trying to distract us from lynching scumbuddy TheCesspit I'd be voting him right now. Although, unless he comes up with something really good really soon, I might be willing to lynch either of them equally.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Addressing MoS's post where he did NOT ask me questions, but rather made some

WEAK

accusations of ties between Cesspit and I:

You major FOSed me, MoS, for several reasons.

A)

You first take issue with the three suspicions I expressed of Cesspit this game.

1) I took issue with the overly confident Cesspit statement:

this comment makes me sure BabyJesus is a lying liar scum.

2) I took issue with Cesspit trying to pinpoint a possible office mover.
3) Start of today, I said

cam, Mos and cesspit are not trying to find scum at all

Your problem is not with my suspicions, but with the fact that I made these observations and didn't grill Cesspit further about them. At the start of today I found the entire damned town scummy, and I've been going after most of them in an attempt to find scum and get us out of the lackadaisical rut that was going to lose us the game. If I haven't lingered on each one long enough for your tastes, go ahead, find me suspicious for it.

Summary: I've addressed Cesspit's scumminess proportionally and you're incorrect that I'm scummy for not pushing him harder.

No, because you've ignored all the other scummy things he's done.

B)

You didn't like my observation:

I think mathcam is scum and cesspit's protecting him for whatever reason. Cam's smarter than to lynch BJ primarily on that claim. He's a highly logical player and that reasoning simply doesn't cut it.

At the time of this post, ibby, Yos, Coron and I all found cam suspicious, and inHim found him suspicious, all for the way cam pushed the BJ lynch. Cesspit's two posts before my comment didn't address specifics about cam, they just said the BJ lynch was justifiable in general terms and diverted the attack onto Coron for not stopping the lynch the day before. Then, Cesspit insinuates someone tried to cook up suspicions on cam day two, and then votes Coron for the BJ lynch instead of cam, which can easily be viewed as a protection of cam who was under pressure.

Summary: my observation of cess protecting cam was reasonable

Mathcam

replaced

Spamwise. If you had either read the game or read the notes I posted about Cesspit, you would know that Cesspit had been trying for most of the game to get spamwise/mathcam under suspicion and to get them lynched. He wasn't insinuating that someone tried to cook up suspicion of cam on day two, he was reminding us that HE had tried to make cam look suspicious, which is exactly why i took issue with his statement. You have once again proved that you aren't actually reading what I'm posting, because I already covered this in my analysis of TheCesspit.

C)

You didn't like my observation:

I've commented on the scumminess I see in cam, cesspit and Ibby, primarily due to their indifferent tone. I'm also surprised Yos is taking the impending loss as well as he is, and I'm thinking there's something not quite right with that either

because you say:

Here you lump TheCesspit in with Ibby and cam, talking about how you're already commented on their scumminess, for a reason that

you've never accused of him.

Actually on September 19th, MoS, I made the post you took issue with above where I said you cam and Cess weren't trying to find scum at all. Indifference and not trying to find scum mean the same thing.

Summary: your accusation here that I never accused Cess of indifference is FALSE.

So then where does Ibby fit in? If you're going to say that your accusation of Ibby, cam, and TheCesspit was a follow up of your accusation of TheCesspit, cam, and myself for not trying to find scum, then you're guilty of lumping in Ibby with Cam and TheCesspit, claiming to have commented on scumminess for a reason you didn't accuse her of.

D)

OK, on to your next attack on me for "protecting Cesspit".

None of your accusations against Cesspit had anything to do with my points against him, so you completely sidestepped the issue.

OK, so your argument is that I'm bringing up unique problems with Cesspit that you didn't notice. That's bad? I guess you're saying that my points are invalid because I didn't also give a thumbs up to your specific accusations of Cesspit.

Summary: MoS's claim that I am sidestepping the Cesspit issue is BLATANTLY FALSE.

No, my argument is that you aren't making substantial arguments against TheCesspit. That is, you're throwing weak and sometimes blatantly false accusations at TheCesspit in a distancing attempt, while ignoring the more seriously scummy things he's done because you don't really want to contribute to the amount of pressure being put on him, since he's your scumbuddy.

I'm going to take a time out here cause I'm halfway through MoS's post accusing me of collaborating with and defending Cesspit.

To this point MoS's argument has been pretty shitty and in some cases blatantly false.

Hallmarks of a cooked up case. And note that he chose to major FOS me over this case. Reasonable? You decide.

Nice try with the whole emotional appeal thing, especially since you just got on Pooky's case for the same thing. I just love the hypocracy.

[Mastermind of Sin]

The end of MoS's case associating me and Cesspit:

This was the last post you ever made regarding TheCesspit. Now I came along and put in effort to restate my arguments against TheCesspit in full, and you not only completely ignore me AGAIN, you try to push a lynch on a lurker to distract from the charges against him. So far this game

(A) You(MBL) have just lightly pressured TheCesspit without ever following up on your suspicions, which has effectively been a distancing tactic designed to not get TheCesspit under fire from other people

too much.

(B) Other than your weak distancing arguments, you(MBL) have completely ignored anything having to do with TheCesspit

,

even when directly asked to comment on him. At first I was just annoyed that you weren't paying attention, but this is way too much to be coincidence. I'm pretty sure now that you are TheCesspit's scumbuddy, so I'll be sure to vote you tomorrow.

A)

MoS says

my pressure

on Cesspit has been designed to

not get Cesspit under pressure

from others? That's a mindbogglingly illogical, dumb, false, misleading observation by MoS. How does pressure on him by me result in less pressure on him from others? Defy logic and explain your nonsense, MoS.

Like I said in my last post, you've been using weak and sometimes false arguments against TheCesspit to distance yourself from him. Since these attacks are rather weak, they are not likely to garner support from a lot of people, effectively allowing you to attack him for distance without adding more pressure by having people agree with you and start voting him or w/e. Oh, and there's another emotional appeal, Mr. Hypocrit.

B)

MoS says that other than my arguments, I've ignored anything Cesspittish. Not only did I post 8 separate criticisms of Cesspit before this accusatory post of MoS's, but I posted a six sentence summary of Cess's play after this post of MoS's. Yeah, other than those fourteen sentences, I've had no comment whatsoever on Cesspit. What the fuck? Do you expect everyone to play only with the toys you brought, MoS?

Please quote these so-called criticisms for me, because I recall nothing of the sort worth mentioning.

Summary: Basically, MoS's argument comes down to the fact that I, specifically, posted fourteen separate comments on Cesspit, but since I didn't point-by-point MoS's argument against Cesspit, he's sure Cess and I are scumpartners.

Don't be shy. Raise your hand if you think MoS is more than a little off his rocker on this one.

Blatant misrepresentation by using assumptions and conclusions of your own to alter my own statements in order to present them in a light that is entirely different from my actual argument. Good job.

Does it make him scummy? Well, depends on his intentions for raising it OVER and OVER. He keeps pushing this case for the Cesspit+MBL love connection and avoiding discussing Pooky substantially at all. Eight other players have commented on Pooky's scumminess but not MoS.

ROFL. Now you're just lying. I specifically commented on Pooky

at your request

, just so we could get past your bullshit stalling and ignoring my case just because I hadn't commented on your diversion.

In my eyes, Pooky has been a 9/10 of scumminess and Cesspit maybe a 4/10. I've made comments about both proportionally. MoS has made NO comments about Pooky and a zillion about Cesspit and MBL. Does that imply that MoS finds Pooky 0/10 scummy and Cesspit and MBL 10/10 scummy? We may never know, because MoS refuses to address the Pooky problem.

I am torn--is MoS protecting Pooky because they're scum together, or because he has some blind faith/love for Pooky from outside the game?

Also, fast forward to tomorrow. There's a 1/5 or so chance I'll be dead, probably more like 1/2 since I've kind of put a bullseye on my back today. When I come up dead town, MoS, you will have to justify why you pursued me with such vigor and failed to address so many other worthy targets.

And to everyone else, the above paragraph is not intended to get MoS off my back. It's intended to frame the bigger picture: I am trying to roust all scum from their cozy hideaways, and MoS is relentlessly hurling false accusations at one townie(MBL) and is way overly certain about the alignment of another player (Cess).

Given that I HAVE commented on Pooky, the above quote is completely pointless. What we really have here is you doing almost exactly what you've accused me of. You're avoiding the bigger issues involving TheCesspit and relentlessly focusing on your diversion wagon, while continually misrepresenting me and even resorting to blatant lying in an emotional appeal to attempt to blind people from what's really happening by convincing everyone that all the scum are lurking and that you didn't do what you've clearly done.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Just in case there was any question about the issue, that is the correct discription of the townie office.

All offices have a desk and a chair IIRC. Not to say Ibby is lying, but I'm not going to say this looks any better on her, especially since she's been in an office with a desk, a chair, and something.

STD: Aren't you just waffling a bit much?

<SNIP>

Why isn't Fuldu lynched yet?

I like waffles.

<SNIP>

I concur.

Unvote, Vote: Fuldu

As for Pooky: I'm not liking what you're spewing. I'm loving the fact you are participating, but the whole appeal to emotion thing isn't doing it for me.

As for MoS: First of all, the point was that I was giving you a ball and I wanted to see how you played with it. When I revealed that, there's no point is seeing what the result is because it could easily be falsified.

Second of all, I don't see how you can link one living person with another and call them scum. If MBL is scum and Cesspit isn't, then he can use what you've said against you. If MBL is town and Cesspit is scum, (and you are too) then you could just reiterate what you're saying.

STD, all I'm asking you, is what did you expect me to do with the ball? You gave me a deflated ball, so I ain't gonna go around bouncing it, surely you should know that. You come in and make this comment on how you "wonder" about me because I didn't comment on a reasonless FOS of Pooky (why would I even care if you want to make pointless FOSes against another player? Until you start making bad cases or something trying to get someone lynched, it's not my business what wierd stuff you do) and then when I ask you what exactly you expected out of me that I didn't do, you try to shove it under the table like it's a moot point. If it was a moot point, then why did you try to place a seed of suspicion by making the comment about me in the first place? Your statements don't seem consistent here. You either have to admit that one of your statements is wrong, or you gotta explain what I'm missing here.

[Mastermind of Sin]

So you admit that you were wrong about Cesspit

protecting

mathcam?

[Mastermind of Sin]

No, I just explained that I saw two different behaviors from Cesspit. I saw him attacking Spamcam weakly over several days, but I also saw him protect cam via diversion from the four players coming after him day three.

Seriously, MoS, if you're going to ask me questions at least take the time to read and understand the responses. It honestly looks more like you're interested in winning arguments than you are in uncovering the truth of what's going on here.

If he was protecting cam on Day 3, then why did he bring up the fact that there had been suspicion on cam the previous days? That's a completely illogical conclusion on your part.

[Mastermind of Sin]

MoS, you demand that I address your accusations of The Cesspit and yet you refuse to touch Pooky despite being asked to address him specifically several times. I hope you realize how scummy that appears.

Please share with us your take on Pooky.

Actually, if you had actually read my posts, I've already explained that I think your argument against Pooky is nothing more than an attempt at diversion. You're using his reputation to try and get him lynched, picking him out of a multitude of lurkers. I know that pooky will come through eventually. The fact that he's not posting much only makes him slightly scummier than everyone who is posting, so he's right in line with the rest of the lurkers that you failed to call out. I certainly don't intend to give him leeway for too many more days, but right now I have a lot scummier people to deal with, such as your scumbuddy, TheCesspit.

Ball's in your court, MBL.

Way to misquote me and edit out half my comment on Pooky.

The difference here, MBL, is that you are blaming me for not immediately responding to things that are happening currently with Pooky, whereas I have been waiting for DAYS for you to comment on TheCesspit, which you have been avoiding. I'm sorry if I can't comment on everything going on right when it happens, especially when I have to deal with responding to posts directed specifically AT me. You have no excuse for avoiding the Cesspit issue for days on end. THAT is the difference. If you find people scummy just because they don't have the time to comment on every little thing that happens WHEN it happens, then you have problems, my friend.

I doubt you'll be seeing another post from me in this thread until Tuesday, since I have a Midterm tomorrow that I need to study for, among other things. At the very least, I won't have time to do a thorough analysis of Pooky's recent posts, so I won't cheapen it by making a half-assed one.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Fuck, I'm not going through those arguments again. Anyone who was actually reading the game already knows that I was ready to

unvote, vote: MBL

. I'll leave it at that.

[Mastermind of Sin]

By the way, just thought I'd note, I DID do an analysis of Pooky before the crash that explained why I didn't think he was the best lynch candidate for today, and of course MBL disagreed with it. Just pointing it out because I'm not gonna go through all this again. It took me way to long the first time.

[Mastermind of Sin]

*sigh*

[Mastermind of Sin]

I like my vote where it is, I've said enough.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Vacation until a week from monday

[Mastermind of Sin]

i'm still here, but very busy for the next few days

[Mastermind of Sin]

I need to get caught up.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Sorry, things have been busy lately. I'm slowing catching up with all my games. I'd like to see a response to the arguments I put against The Cesspit, from whoever eventually replaced him. I guess that's, KingEnigma, so I'll

vote: KingEnigma

for now.

[Mastermind of Sin]

cmon people. We're having like 2 posts a day here, that's unacceptable.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Wow, no posts for 2 days, GJ peeps.

I agree with Thok about Coron.

If I were in mmod's position, I would move offices every night just to see what happens. It's kinda boring to have a role like this (which he'll probably never see again) and not use it. It makes the game more interesting. I doubt anything he does this early in the game will lose the game for us, so why not?

Pablito, would you like to present your reasons for suspecting Uraj and spectrumvoid? I seem to recall feeling slightly suspicious of Uraj as well, but I can't remember why. I'll need to reread and gather my thoughts. In the meantime, it would be nice to get some reasoning if you can.

[Mastermind of Sin]

k, thanks for the clarification.

Mod, could you prod everyone who hasn't posted lately, especially King Enigma?

[Mastermind of Sin]

If everyone is here, why are there only like 4 of us posting?

[Mastermind of Sin]

No, I see it too; Fuldu basically admitted that he was trying to get you to out yourself yesterday (under the false impression that you were a cop).

That's a pretty good point. I was almost ready to believe Fuldu's post. It seemed reasonable, but I didn't notice that.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Vote: Cogito Ergo Scum

because my vote disappeared somehow.

[Mastermind of Sin]

And why are you voting for me?

Read my previous posts about your predecessors. I believe the main analysis was around Day 3ish

[Mastermind of Sin]

You're talking about Cesspit, aren't you?

yes

I don't particularly see how you can defend yourself like 3 replacements later, although you're welcome to try, but just because it's unfortunate that you were replaced isn't going to make me change my vote just because of that. I still feel that his actions were incredibly scummy, and I have yet to see someone else act scummier.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Maybe they all had shitty offices?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Childish nearly incomprehensible babbling

So if you're pro-town, Uraj, I don't know, but don't attack me. I'm pro-town.

Forgive me if I don't find this to be a very convincing argument.

This coming from the man who claimed that the game is all about logic and that becoming emotional is just a pitfall, and etc. How ironic.

I'm going to

FoS: Uraj

for now. I haven't really liked his posts lately, but I don't want to put him at lynch -1 until I get a chance to post my thoughts a little more. Given my current schedule, that could be this afternoon, or it could be in a week. We shall see.

[Mastermind of Sin]

What happened to my old office? It's not listed as being occupied, and it's not on the unoccupied list. Did it get blown up?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Still Know Jack (10):

pablito (replacing armlx) -- Jack Campbell, formerly Jack Quinn, formerly Jack Kay
Uraj45 (replacing Colonel Kurtz) -- Jack MacDonald, formerly Jack Thomas
Coron -- Jack Thomas, formerly Jack Evans
Quagmire (replacing Harry_Potter) -- Jack Bennett, formerly Jack Adams
Thok (replacing ibaesha) -- Jack Evans, formerly Jack Johnson, formerly Jack Quinn
Mastermind of Sin -- Jack Gallagher, formerly

Jack Lincoln

Save The Dragons (replacing LoudmouthLee, who replaced Max) -- Jack Johnson, formerly Jack Phillips
mystery meat of doom -- Jack Zimmerman, formerly Jack Davis
PookyTheMagicalBear -- Jack Adams, formerly Jack Macdonald
spectrumvoid (replacing Shamrock) -- Jack Kay, formerly Jack Irving

I was Jack Lincoln...

[/quote]Open Office:
Jack Quinn
Jack Phillips
Jack Davis
Jack Irving
Jack Hall [/quote]

[Mastermind of Sin]

Agreed.

[Mastermind of Sin]

The following is a list of relevant quotes to the Fuldu wagon. Feel free to skip over them if you've been reading the thread.

unvote, vote Fuldu

to force him to post. I've seen him in this forum, and this is the only game he can be looking at.

One of the reasons that I was trying to push Coron yesterday for his reasons for voting mathcam was that while his actions seemed to suggest "I know something you don't" (e.g. cop investigation), his approach seemed to be drawing far more attention to him than a cop normally would. But since he was never able to articulate an argument, I came to assume that he must just have been doing a bad job of hiding it and that he really did know something. Otherwise, it's hard to justify his profound insistence on lynching mathcam on the basis of nothing whatsoever. Now that we know mathcam wasn't scum, and that Coron therefore didn't know anything of value, I'm inclined to attribute it to scummy behavior.

vote: Coron

I'll bite. I also thought he was the most scummy, hence my block.

vote: Coron

No, I see it too; Fuldu basically admitted that he was trying to get you to out yourself yesterday (under the false impression that you were a cop).

Oops.

unvote, vote Fuldu

Trying to get a cop = scummy.

I'm about 33-33-33 for voting Fuldu, Spectrumvoid, Uraj45.

Yay! I finished my read.

I like the Fulduwagon.

Unvote, vote: Fuldu

I very much like my vote on Quagmire/Harry Potter, I think that's something to look back at tomorrow.

unvote: Quagmire

I think that right now, we have to lynch someone. There's no way around it. We squandered the day away and now we have to deal.

vote: Fuldu

.

Simply, I'm voting for the top vote-getter and it's not the best way of doing things. I may move if someone I find scummier gets votes as well

To respond to SV:

If I'm not supposed to block the person who I think is most scummy, wouldn't that be something like random blocking then?

I think you just came up with that question yourself independently right now. But I would hope it's in response to:

So why'd you roleblock him [mathcam] then? My read on you was that you were kinda trusting mathcam.

Because when I re-read the thread, I got the sense that you complimented mathcam and thus was finding him pro-town. So then it begs the question for tomorrow about why you bothered to block mathcam. I want to see where your thoughts changed. But right now, it pretty much seems like SV is blocking reasonably and I don't see enough to convict SV now.

So my options are voting for spectrumvoid, who I largely believe is pro-town, or getting deadline lynched myself? Frankly, I'd rather see STD lynched, since his posts against spectrum have been pretty much unjustified, and spectrum was one of the few people he felt he had reason to trust the last time he went through the players and indicated his views. Or Coron, for reasons I've already stated and that have apparently gotten me in trouble.

unvote: Coron; vote: Save The Dragons

unvote, vote: Save the Dragons

I like this vote very much. Unlike Uraj, it was StD's addition to the SV wagon that alarmed me.

Vote: Fuldu

I will switch to Fuldu if no one's going to be jumping over to StD.

unvote, vote: Fuldu

Unvote, Vote: Fuldu

acceptable alternative

I actually did voice concern about spectrumvoid today. I don't think she's pro-town, either an anti-town RB or just flat out lying.

The wagon, while seemingly justified, didn't really have a lot of meat to it. Fuldu made about two relevant posts that made him seem pretty scummy, but most of the votes on him weren't accompanied by any reasoning that pointed this out. I'm quite interested by Pablito's flipflopping and willingness to follow Fuldu as he tried to get STD lynched, then jumping back at the end to get on the Fuldu-wagon. I think it's also possible that SV could be connected to Fuldu, although her actions are plausible as protown that was mislead. I don't think STD is one of Fuldu's scumbuddies, since he was Fuldu's attempted scapegoat. However, if Fuldu was convinced he would die anyways, I suppose he might've attacked a buddy to throw us off, so I'm not very sure about it. I'm more sure of Thok's innocence, or at least that he wasn't Fuldu's scumbuddy. He brought attention to Fuldu unnecessarily, so I don't think they were working together.

Vote: Pablito

[Mastermind of Sin]

Re: Pablito

Hey, MOS, tell us what you thought of the Fuldu wagon yesterday.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'm interested in hearing Pablito's explanation for his actions yesterday.

[Mastermind of Sin]

*sigh* can we lynch Pablito already?

[Mastermind of Sin]

lol jk, I'm satisfied with his response

unvote

[Mastermind of Sin]

yeah, he should roleblock the office switcher

[Mastermind of Sin]

SV?

[Mastermind of Sin]

lol jk, I'm satisfied with his response

unvote

Nice try, Quagmire.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Mastermind of Sin wrote:
lol jk, I'm satisfied with his response unvote


Nice try, Quagmire.

Weakest argument ever, MoS. If you don't get an

FOS

for that I'd consider it a crime.

No, I think your vote on me was the weakest argument ever, so weak that I didn't even have to post anything new to have a counterargument.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Twilight means we can talk unless the mod posted a rule saying we can't, but the lynch is already decided.

[quote=Yaw]• Once you have been killed, stop typing. [/quote]

You're the one that needs to stop talking.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Twilight means we can talk unless the mod posted a rule saying we can't, but the lynch is already decided.

[quote="Yaw"• Once you have been killed, stop typing.

You're the one that needs to stop talking.[/quote]

*fixed*

[Mastermind of Sin]

Twilight means we can talk unless the mod posted a rule saying we can't, but the lynch is already decided.

• Once you have been killed, stop typing.

You're the one that needs to stop talking.

*fixed*

damnit!

[Mastermind of Sin]

Yea, it seems pretty solid to me. Where is everyone? We may need some prods already.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Indeed, we should be skeptical at best, but I think that this theory is easier to deal with now than trying to wrap our brains around how else it could've happened.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Prod Pooky please

[Mastermind of Sin]

thank you

[Mastermind of Sin]

feel free to contribute, pooky. That'd be a change.

Gah, I need to reread this game eventually :/

[Mastermind of Sin]

I wouldn't mind a Quagmire lynch, but I'd like a chance to reread to confirm this.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Looks like I've got STD.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I know this wasn't supposed to be a PBPA, but this is more notes for myself, so ignore if you want and go to the bottom of this post.


STD's first serious post does a pretty good analysis of several players in the game, calling out Cesspit and Mathcam as scum, with Pooky and SV to a lesser degree, and Yos/Ibae as confusing scumtownies. He brings up a decent point about Yos in this post, but since Yos was town, I guess it really didn't mean much.

He votes Cesspit a few posts later.

I'm confused by his argument against Mathcam, but he was protown, too, so I guess that one was wrong anyways.

Unvotes Cesspit, no reason why. Quotes a couple of my posts with a "?" after them, I don't know what he was getting at with that.

Asks me some questions about Cesspit, then asks me another question that I didn't understand and asked for some context about.

Ignores my request and moves on to vote MMoD when it's pointed out that he keeps saying he'll reread but never does.

Goes back to Cesspit, no reason given.

FoS's Pooky, no reason given

FoS's HP, gives some sort of reason, I'd have to read in context to understand it.

Willing to vote Cesspit and MMoD

Responds to my argument with MBL, where I asked someone else to field his post for me, but since he's not convinced of MBL's scumminess, he won't. Wonders why I didn't respond to him FoSing Pooky.

Wonders why I reacted to his Pooky FoS after he pointed it out. (I explained that I didn't think the FoS meant anything, so there was nothing to respond to, but then he said that it meant something about me that I didn't say anything in response to a baseless FoS, so I responded to him asking what he was expecting)

Unvotes (confused)

Votes for Fuldu, no reason given

Doesn't like Pooky appealing to emotion

Further response to me about the Pooky issue. (I don't know why STD was expecting me in specific to respond to the FoS: Pooky, but apparently that's what he wanted to see)

More discussion about the Pooky issue

Not seeing MBL as scum

Makes a kill/no kill list:
Kill - armlx (Protown), Uraj (Protown), Coron (Alive), Fuldu (Scum), H_P (Alive (Quagmire)), MBL (Protown), MMoD (Alive), Pooky (Alive), mathcam (Protown), Oberon (Protown)
No Kill - ibaesha (Alive (Thok)), Mastermind of Sin (Alive), Save The Dragons (Alive), spectrumvoid (Alive), Yosarian2 (Protown)
Gives reasons for putting people on the list.

Forgot reason for voting Fuldu, unvotes

Confused

Thinks MBL is town, slowly becoming more suspicious of Mathcam (I like his analogy)

Points out that SV blocking MBL and Mathcam doesn't clear them, asks when SV blocked them. FoSes SV, close to voting SV

Equally split between voting Fuldu, SV, and Uraj

Votes SV

Unvotes, Votes Fuldu

Votes Uraj for metagaming this late in the game (This is where the money for dragon preservation starts, in case you care)

Wants Uraj to be lynched, thinks MoS is scum

Asks questions and reads thread to answer them

Still wants Uraj dead.

Wants his old office back.

Nothing in his new office. Wants back in Jack Phillips' Office

Analysis/Questioning of STD begins here:

Unvotes Cesspit, no reason why. Quotes a couple of my posts with a "?" after them, I don't know what he was getting at with that.

Asks me some questions about Cesspit, then asks me another question that I didn't understand and asked for some context about.

Ignores my request and moves on to vote MMoD when it's pointed out that he keeps saying he'll reread but never does.

Goes back to Cesspit, no reason given.

I would like an explanation of this, both the lack of reason for unvoting and revoting Cesspit, plus the ignoring my clarification request when you had apparently unvoted Cesspit based off something I said/did, then moving straight to MMoD and disregarding the whole thing with Cesspit.

I'm still confused somewhat by the whole FoS Pooky thing, but I think I kinda see where STD was coming from, so I guess that's fine. I think it was mostly miscommunication between us, anyways.

I'd like to hear what STD has to say about Coron, Quagmire, MMoD, and Pooky (those four in particular).

I also want to know why STD went from saying that he felt I was genuine and shouldn't be lynched, then was stating I was scum while wanting Uraj lynched, but today, the only posts he's made have been about his new office and wanting his old one back. If you really think I'm scum, why haven't you voted me or presented reasoning to get me lynched, since your #1 suspect, Uraj, was lynched yesterday?

Also, why has SV bounced around in your suspicion list? You had her on your no kill list, but then you wanted to lynch her, Fuldu, and Uraj equally, and even voted her. Then, yesterday, you went after Uraj and mentioned that I was scum, but never even talked about SV at all.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Also, my reread of STD caused me to go look at MMoD's posts, and I'd like him to post some pretty good content soon, or I'd be willing to put him on the chopping block.

The same goes for Pooky, who had 42 posts between June 21st and Oct 31st (4 months), but only 11 posts since then (another 4 months).

[Mastermind of Sin]

I would've posted mine earlier but I had to leave for a bit while I was working on it.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Whoo for backpedaling!


(Don't read this as a serious statement, I just couldn't resist. I haven't actually thought through whether or not the above statement is something that should really be called backpedaling, that was just my first thought when I read it)

[Mastermind of Sin]

Have fun, Yaw!

[Mastermind of Sin]

Wha?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Hi.

[Mastermind of Sin]

That's a good deal.

[Mastermind of Sin]

STD, I'd appreciate a response to my analysis when you get time. I don't want the game to slow down again.

[Mastermind of Sin]

good luck ^_^

[Mastermind of Sin]

I hope some more people can post their analysis' soon.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Who else are we waiting on? Has Pooky posted his?

[Mastermind of Sin]

wow.

Vote: Quagmire

Way to not pay attention. If you had been paying attention, you would know that you're supposed to do an analysis of the person below you on the mod's player list, which happens to be Thok. What you just posted isn't helpful at all and just makes me think you are scum, especially with the "i don't know how to defend myself against nothing" argument, when that wasn't even what we are talking about. It seems like you have a guilty conscience to me.

[Mastermind of Sin]

By the way, does anyone have a theory as to why my former office has disappeared? Maybe I'm blind, but I can't find it anywhere...

[Mastermind of Sin]

Quagmire, if you think the reasoning against you is that you've been useless, then why don't you give us a reason to think otherwise? Unless, of course, you admit to being useless... It's a valid argument that you've been useless, so you can't just dismiss it. If you don't think you've been useless, then explain to us how you haven't been useless.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I have an explanation for why Pooky did it (besides what Pooky already said), but I'll wait for him to give further reasoning so as to not let him answer for himself.

[Mastermind of Sin]

*not not

[Mastermind of Sin]

Ok, Pooky gave the explanation that I figured it was.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Ok, Pooky gave the explanation that I figured it was.

Why do you belive Pooky to be protown? How many scum do you think are left?

I don't know if Pooky is protown yet. What gave you that impression? If I thought he was protown for sure, I wouldn't have bothered making him speak for himself. Otherwise, I could've given my theory and if I was wrong he could've corrected me. Since it's possible that he's scum, I wanted to let him speak for himself first to see if it correlated with my theory.

[Mastermind of Sin]

We need more participation if we're going to convince the mod to extend the deadline.

[Mastermind of Sin]

How many people are we waiting on from Pooky's assignment?

[Mastermind of Sin]

I think close to everybody needs to go. I mean I haven't even done you yet. I think you, STD, and Pooky are the only people to go.

As for my earlier question-I can't see what benefit there is for you as town to suggest that there is a protown reason for what Pooky did, especially since I had already commented about that reason (I had said that using me as a sanity check this late in the game is dumb, unless you felt it important to defend Pooky. Given that Pooky falls into my collection of people that I have little to no read on, this makes me wonder why you would be confident enough in Pooky to do that.

Notice this isn't the first time this has come up; you defended Pooky earlier in the game also (from MBL, for example).

@Pooky-I would have strongly prefered you let STD react to my comment without you making a massive accusation on him.

I didn't say his reasoning was necessarily protown, but it was what I would expect as a genuine answer. Whether he's scum or not, his role is separate, and if his answer didn't feel genuine to me, then that would be a point in favor of him being scum.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'm not understanding you, Thok. Whether or not Pooky was right in the decision he made, that doesn't make it any less genuine. If I had been in Pooky's place, that's what I would've done, and that's the reason I would've done it. Therefore, if he gave the same reasoning, I can believe that he was genuine in that explanation. I don't see how you think this has any bearing on alignment, however. Both scum and town can tell the truth when it comes to their roles.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'm not understanding you, Thok. Whether or not Pooky was right in the decision he made, that doesn't make it any less genuine. If I had been in Pooky's place, that's what I would've done, and that's the reason I would've done it. Therefore, if he gave the same reasoning, I can believe that he was genuine in that explanation. I don't see how you think this has any bearing on alignment, however. Both scum and town can tell the truth when it comes to their roles.

I'M NOT USING THIS DISCUSSION AS A WAY TO ASSESS POOKY!!!!

I'M USING IT AS A WAY TO ASSESS YOU!

I want to know why you are letting Pooky know that there is some sort of "right answer" to my question.

I understand you're trying to assess me. What I'm trying to point out is that you were assuming that I was assessing Pooky in a positive way based on his response, when I did no such thing. Had he given another answer, I might have been able to use it to assess his guilt, but given the circumstances, it shows nothing one way or the other. You don't seem to be understanding that.

[Mastermind of Sin]

2 scum and 1 sk dead, so I'm guessing 1-2 scum left, probably two. Since that would put us at lynch or lose, I'm not going to put my vote back on Quagmire. I'm not sure why everyone let you slip through the cracks yesterday, and now we're in a bit more of a bind.

FoS: Quagmire

, at least. TBH, I'm thinking that our best strategy at this point would be to go for No Lynch, since we're at an even number of people, with 1 NK per night. This will reduce the number of suspects we have to sort through, and probably gives us the best chance of winning. In addition, if any of us have offices that actually do anything, it'll give us more time to utilize them and gather information. Of course, if anyone has a better idea, I'm all ears, but standard procedure is telling me that our best bet is a No Lynch, given the circumstances.

[Mastermind of Sin]

No, the front post hasn't been updated to include Pooky's death.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Oh, so it does.

Vote: Quagmire

, then. I'm going to need a really good reason to let you slip by another day.

[Mastermind of Sin]

mmod, Coron, where are you?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Thanks for your contribution.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I wouldn't mind an office claim, although I'm not sure what the usefulness of that would be. Does it have any positive effect for the town?

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'll try to post next week, I have a final tomorrow and then I have to move out the next day and move in on Sunday. I want to take a look at the rest of the players before we lynch Quagmire.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'm going to try and post something around Monday, but iunno. I've got a lot of work to do. We'll see.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Work sucks. I've got a big project due Friday, so I'll try to read on Saturday.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Make that Sunday. Things came up for Saturday.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Coron:

Vote: MoS

FoS: Ibby, Mathcam

Bagged 3 scum for the price of 1.

Do you still think myself or Thok (replacing Ibby) are scum?

I feel like I've referenced this before, but you said this in thread a while back:

overview of who's scummy and who's not.
Scummy: Oberon, mathcam, Uraj, armlx
Middle: Spectrumvoid, fuldu, MMoD, MBL, Yos
Not: Ibby, pooky, Coron, STD, H_P, MoS

What caused you to move Ibby and myself to the "not scummy" list, without giving any reason to stop suspecting us?

How do you feel about this list now? Of your "scummy" list, all four were protown. One of your "middle" list was scum, and all of your "not scummy" list is still living save Pooky. ThAdmiral and SV are the two remaining people from your "middle" list.

I don't remember exactly what happened but I remember a lot of people were voting Mathcam and he was very suspicious.

Vote: Mathcam

Why did you make this post? Looking back on your own posts, you gave reasons to vote Mathcam yourself...

Who do you think is scum right now? Do you approve of the Quagmire-wagon?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Thok:

I was going through Thok's posts, but I can't really find anything that I have a question about. I don't really feel like asking him to explain Ibby's actions, because that line of questioning is always lame. Unfortunately, with everyone besides myself and Coron being replacements, this is going to be a problem.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Spectrumvoid:

Early in the game you said you felt Harry_Potter was suspicious, but I'm not seeing a reasoning for it. Would you care to extrapolate on why you felt H_P (not Quagmire) was suspicious? The only thing I've found so far is lurking, but that reasoning came well after you originally said you felt he was scummy.

Later you defend MMoD (not ThAdmiral) by saying that you think lurking is possibly scummy, but not definitely, and FoS the people who are voting him for lurking. What caused your change in stance between H_P's lurking and MMoD's lurking?

Then a few posts later you say that you're going after Pooky for lurking. Why did you change your mind once again?

You claimed Roleblocker and having blocked Mathcam. You then voted for him, but unvoted, saying you believed his claim. However, a few posts later you put him at lynch -1 saying "Since I'm the roleblocker who first brought it up, I'll follow this wagon." Can you explain your actions regarding this? Also, why did you say that you blocked Coron for pushing the Mathcam wagon? Considering that you yourself gave evidence against Mathcam and supported his lynch, I don't see why you claimed suspicion of Coron. Please explain this.

[Mastermind of Sin]

ThAdmiral:

Just replaced MMoD, so I'm not going to ask him any questions about his actions, since he has yet to make any. MMoD's actions may reflect on him, but it's no use asking him to explain the thoughts of someone else.

I do have a few questions, actually.

You agree that Quagmire is scum. However, after reading through the entire game, you haven't said anything about anyone but Quagmire. If Quagmire is scum, who do you think are his scumbuddies? Also, if Quagmire comes up town, who would you suspect next?

This is probably something that we should all think about.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Can I get a

prod

on Coron, ThAdmiral, and Save The Dragons?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Thanks

[Mastermind of Sin]

unvote

I don't want to risk anyone dropping the hammer while we're getting good discussion in.

[Mastermind of Sin]

That would kinda suck, because then we can't look at actions related to bluemonick and Fuldu to figure out their scumbuddies. *sigh*

[Mastermind of Sin]

Where is STD?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Thok, what do you think of Quagmire?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Indeed. You said you would vote him eventually, but you never did, and other people unvoted him before you could hammer, since discussion was going along so well.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Yaw, could you prod Thok, please?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Thanks

[Mastermind of Sin]

Alright, thanks for clarifying.

[Mastermind of Sin]

The problem with ThAdmiral is that his predecessor pretty much lurked the entire game, from what I can remember, so we basically have to go on his few posts he's made since replacing.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'd like Coron to explain why he voted ThAdmiral out of the blue after not posting for 5 days.