Random Mafia 2 Game Over

[Coron]

He claimed "he turned out to be one shot", not explicitly in his role he was one shot.

Cam, would it hurt the town for you to say why you were one shot?

[WellofLostGnomes]

WoLG: you are forgetting 1shot roles for the town. there are probably more 1shot pro town roles then 1 shot mafia roles.

Hmmm. Really now? The whole point of that post was to illustrate that:
A. There are more 1 shots available for the town to use.
A[1]. The mafia has a chance to disrupt many of these abilities.

B. The mass roleblock will hurt the town more.
B(1). The mafia *may* be able to deny the town a 1 shot investigation, 1 shot vig, 1 shot roleblock, 1 shot protect

Thus having the role as a mafia is feasible, if not likely.

[WellofLostGnomes]

I think you're on crack.

Well not litterally on crack, but still.

Aparently you don't realize what my role does.

IT IS MASS ROLE BLOCKER IT BLOCKS SCUM AS WELL AS TOWN

IF I BLOCK EVERYONE THAT MEANS IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT YOU CAN JUST NO LYNCH THE NEXT DAY IF YOU WANT,

I DON'T SEE HOW THIS IS ANY WAY HELPS SCUM, IT GIVES THE TOWN MORE OPTIONS.

So yeah, I'm pretty sure I've outlined how you're full of shit. Let's get on with the no voting for me. k?

*Bolding by WoLG.*

The way it helps the scum is by possibly eleminating any 1 shot abilities the town may or may not be using that night. Because they are 1 shot, you blocking them means that they can not use them again. (Less information for the town to use against the scum)

[Coron]

As I've pointed out before, out of the 4 protown dead, not 1 is one shot, and we're not even certain if the 1 shot roles are blocked they use the shot...

As I understand mathcam wasn't a true one shot but rather "turned out" to be one shot. This leaves it with me, the only claimed or dead protown one shot. Let's see, am I gonna have a problem if I block myself? I'm sorry, but I think think I will.

As far as I can tell there is at least if not more basis for the scum having a large number of one shot roles than town.

[WellofLostGnomes]

As I've pointed out before, out of the 4 protown dead, not 1 is one shot, and we're not even certain if the 1 shot roles are blocked they use the shot...

As I understand mathcam wasn't a true one shot but rather "turned out" to be one shot. This leaves it with me, the only claimed or dead protown one shot. Let's see, am I gonna have a problem if I block myself? I'm sorry, but I think think I will.

As far as I can tell there is at least if not more basis for the scum having a large number of one shot roles than town.

Is this asking for more 1 shots to come out? [/sarcasm] I'm just pointing out that there *may*, if not most probably *are*, more 1 shot abilities out there.

[Coron]

As I've pointed out before, out of the 4 protown dead, not 1 is one shot, and we're not even certain if the 1 shot roles are blocked they use the shot...

As I understand mathcam wasn't a true one shot but rather "turned out" to be one shot. This leaves it with me, the only claimed or dead protown one shot. Let's see, am I gonna have a problem if I block myself? I'm sorry, but I think think I will.

As far as I can tell there is at least if not more basis for the scum having a large number of one shot roles than town.

Is this asking for more 1 shots to come out? [/sarcasm] I'm just pointing out that there *may*, if not most probably *are*, more 1 shot abilities out there.

Duh, the question wasn't at all about that though, it was more about the projected ratio of scum to town shotted abilities, which I contend with this game's current info on the dead is at least as likely for scum as town(though I admit there is no law of small numbers).

and my blocking might not even consume other people's one shot abilities, I'm not sure.

[three word name]

I hadnt thought about how it might not take the shot out of the 1-shots. that is indeed a possibility.

but i still think telling us is smart because I think that it is a good protown ability.

if you all insist on having an extra night then go ahead and lynch him. but I think that the day is more importaint than the night to the town.

[mathcam]

Here's your quote, Coron:

I'd have to be hell of dumb to do it as scum or town without the ability and as scum with that ability

It seems to indicate that you think it would be "hell of dumb" to claim the role you claimed if any of the three cases hold:

1) You are scum without the ability.
2) You are town without the ability.
3) You are scum with the ability.

I suppose there's little harm in revealing my full role at this point...I got to investigate until I found a scum. Since that was night one, I turned out to be one-shot (as opposed to finding a couple of innocents before my one scum).

In any case, my suspicion of Coron is waning (but, of course, not gone).

Unvote: Coron

for now. Though I find several things about Coron suspicious, I certainly believe that he has the ability that he claims, and I think I'd have to concede it's not an extremely useful role for the mafia to have.

Maybe no lynch is the best option for today. We can test Coron's role, and if he's not totally making up this role, then there's no harm done...we won't lose anyone overnight.

Cam

[HezLucky]

Unvote

Story checks out with what he said earlier ("something tells me I'm sane")

[Coron]

oh, yeah I guess I was kind of ambigious there, my bad mathcam, but I didn't mean it like that so I guess we're on the same page in terms of that now.

[Lloyd]

mathcam,

I disagree with a no lynch.

In post 278, Coron wasn't sure if he could block one-shots.

By no lynching, we risk giving scums an opportunity to make a move tonight.

---

Coron,

When you use your mass block, what happens if someone else roleblocks you?

Are you both blocked?

If not...Are blocks time sensitive, with the earlier block receiving higher priority?

[WellofLostGnomes]

mathcam,
I disagree with a no lynch.

In post 278, Coron wasn't sure if he could block one-shots.

By no lynching, we risk giving scums an opportunity to make a move tonight.

---

Coron,

When you use your mass block, what happens if someone else roleblocks you?

Are you both blocked?

If not...Are blocks time sensitive, with the earlier block receiving higher priority?

I also disagree with a no lych.

By not being sure, he meant that there is no sure-fire way of knowing that they will fire on the night he blocks. If they don't fire, he can't block them.

The plan was to no lynch and then use his ability. If he uses it, they can't do anything.

---
This is all fishing and un-nessacary questioning.

It also seems like a claim.

Completely not nessacary, as the only one that would want to really block him would be a scum wanting to have a nightkill.

[Lloyd]

You are making an assumption about Coron's alignment.

[WellofLostGnomes]

You are making an assumption about Coron's alignment.

No, I'm assuming that he actually block's everyone.

[Coron]

Coron,

When you use your mass block, what happens if someone else roleblocks you?

Are you both blocked?

If not...Are blocks time sensitive, with the earlier block receiving higher priority?

Heck if I know, but personally I think my role would resolve first. *shrugs*

[three word name]

Coron,

When you use your mass block, what happens if someone else roleblocks you?

Are you both blocked?

If not...Are blocks time sensitive, with the earlier block receiving higher priority?

I am curious about that as well.

[armlx]

Mod Butts In:

In all of my games, role blocks are all im the same layer of effects. You can't role block a role blocker (unless the role specifically says so).

[mathcam]

I guess there would have to be a rather large number of things

not

going wrong to make the no lynch thing work, and the best thing we get out of it is that Coron's telling the truth about his ability, which doesn't even give us his alignment. So yeah, forget the whole no lynch thing. There's just too many unknowns to be able to draw any sort of meaningful conclusion from whatever result we get out.

Cam

[armlx]

Vote Count
m00c0w- 1 (Ibaesha)
Hez- 1 (PBuG)
Coron- 1 (xGreyJoyx)

Not Voting: Thoth, Fritzler, Sotty, HairyCarey, m00c0w, Lloyd, Coron, WoLG, Mathcam, TWN, Hez

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch

[XGreyjoyX]

Hmmm, I do believe I misjudged Coron, what appere to me as scummy may just be his play style.

Unvote: Coron

However I will leave a

FoS:Coron

m something about his claim seems off to me

[mathcam]

Okay, time to go lurker-hunting. This is fair warning for those of you who like to lurk and then claim "Oh, I wasn't lurking...I just didn't have anything to say." Post or perish.

Cam

[HezLucky]

Vote: PBug

scum still hasn't unvoted me yet.

[ibaesha]

I think that the game has been rather narrowly-focused, this bothers me. I'm slightly guilty of it as well, however, so I decided to go back and re-read to see what I could find. In order to not make a huge post that has stuff that people might consider irrelevant, I left out some things that I kept in my own notes, so feel free to ask why I didn’t mention this or that. I might have a note about it. I also split this into 2 posts. 1 for D1 and 1 for D2. If D2 seems kinda jumbly, I apologize. It's kind of hard to make something coherent out of my notes.

Day 1

Fritz kills Chamber.

Adele reacts like OMG!!! (Fritz reads her scumtell and kills her; pretty funny stuff)

*** Fritz starts collecting votes.

Adele - scum
WoLG (unvotes after adele shows up scum)
PBug (unvotes after adele shows up scum)
Pooky - scum unvotes after moocow FoSes - might be nothing

------------------------------------------------------------

Pay attention to this

[65]
moocow 1st post: "I'm so confused" - Scummy, it's not that confusing. Fritz killed 2 people, one was scum. A FOS on Fritz (pretty doubtful Fritz is scum at this point) AND mentioning that Bad Idea mafia was a scum win.

If confused, why would he have gone and checked on Bad Idea Mafia. Newbie to the site, he checked it because he did read the thread, thoroughly. Plus, moocow isn't an inattentive player.

Yes, my point is that moocow saying he is confused is scummy because I don't believe he was confused at all. It was a fake reaction. Scum fake reactions.

Scummy 1st post vibes explained, kthx
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Fritz kills Adele (who was scum)

Lloyd [73] - He votes for WoLG - And actually I see his reasoning (amazing).

Thing is, if WoLG was mafia, would he join the same wagon with 2 scum buddies that quickly? WIFOM thinking I'm sure, but it's a question.

threewordname: 1st post [75] - Another 'overreaction' to Fritz's daykills - noted. It almost sounds like he's worried about the mafia. Maybe he was upset his scum partner was killed. Makes a point of saying how Fritz is going to be killed by the mafia. Also random votes my prime suspect. I usually ignore random votes, but gotta note this.

mathcam cops Pooky - votes come in

I didn't bother voting Pooky since I didn't have a vote, therefore voted for my top suspect so that it would be in the thread, and my vote not counting would show on a vote count.

Note: moocow responds to my 'vote' that's not really a vote in a pretty strong manner and actually explains his random vote which was the only thing not scummy about his first post - heh.

Hmm... Greyjoy: Interesting interesting - random vote wasn't bolded, vote on Pooky wasn't bolded (newb mistake or... ?)

Pooky tries to save himself: This was pretty funny. Pooky is so adorable, even when he's scum.

moocow: [117/118] - analysis of Pooky and mathcam. Note: this is after the Hammah! IMO - analysis posts after the hammer like this are prob scum trying to muddle the waters before night. (he noted that he was doing it knowingly) Notice, while Fritz’s blaringly obvious daykills were confusing, moocow gathers LOTS from a more complex issue: mathcam's results on Pooky (not innocent or guilty - weapons instead) and Pooky claiming doc, while at the same time trying to make mathcam out to be innocent.

1.

"Then again. Lloyd, you mentioned that it was suspicious that Pooky roleclaimed without a name. I'd like to point out that cam didn't offer up a name either. Can you give us one so we can be more confident in you, Cam?"

This is fishing. Fishing is scummy.

2. The possible scenarios. As I said in an earlier post, I feel that this was over the top. Essentially

someone trying to look pro-town when they're really not.

Also, take into account this was done in twilight. What was the point? And yet, he even answers 'what the point is'. If he was consciously doing something he knew was futile, why do it?

At the end of D1 re-read - My top suspects are moocow, 3word, and greyjoy. In that order.

The question of if mathcam was selling out his partner... I think Pooky's entire 'mathcam is innocent!' was so blatant that Pooky was attempting to cast suspicion on mathcam on his way down. I note Fritz's argument about mathcam having sold out a scum partner on d1 in the past and mathcam's response. At this point, I'm willing to believe mathcam is innocent.

[XGreyjoyX]

Hmm... Greyjoy: Interesting interesting - random vote wasn't bolded, vote on Pooky wasn't bolded (newb mistake or... ?)

This is my very first game on this server, it was truly newb mistakes.

Good post, but that last bit of logiv I don't agree with, that is total WIFOM as pooky could have just done that to get people to react as you did.

[ibaesha]

Day 2:

Lloyd goes back to voting WoLG - I don't really think he's scum. I think Lloyd had founded suspicions, but it's not really that much.

[140]
**Greyjoy joins the vote on WoLG and FOSes mathcam. No reason given for either.**

In [145]
mathcam claims one-shotness, but does not reveal why. What follows is pretty interesting IMO.

Several people reacted to mathcam because of his one-shotness. Some believing him to be scum due to his not claiming it D1 and whatnot:

Greyjoy nearly wanted to vote for him because of it.
Hez immediately FoSes him for it.
HairyCarey fishes for info from him due to it, and asks a WIFOM-ish question.
Sotty thought it was weird and also fished for info.
WoLG kinda initially finds it suspicious, but lets it go pretty easily.
PBug actually voted mathcam for it.
3word throws in a FoS about it, finding it odd.

Greyjoy
[147]
Explains his FOS on mathcam but not his vote on WoLG. Interesting. Later, in [151] he explains his vote on WoLG as being his original suspicion from D1, however her never voted, FoSed or commented on WoLG at any point before that vote.

Coron votes Hez and calls him scum. This is where the whole mathcam one-shot thing fades into the background pretty much.

mathcam's [159] actually makes pretty good sense, IMO.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greyjoy: [166] Agrees with the WoLG, drops the cam thing and unvotes. This is where he votes for Coron.

This is pretty interesting, actually.

Greyjoy was voting for WoLG based on his original suspect. He never voted for WoLG day 1. Never mentioned suspicions of him, and never does.

He drops his suspicions of mathcam based on agreeing with WoLG (who he's voting for no reason) and votes Coron who said Hez was scum. (Is he defending Hez here?)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Suspicions of Coron start to rise:

Pbug is suspicious of Coron
mathcam is suspicious of coron

Sidenote: Hez votes for WoLG for bandwagonning... er 2nd vote is a bandwagon, huh? Overreact much Hez?

PBug votes Coron for being more conservative o.O? This is just weird but w/e.

mathcam jumps on this quote from Coron "there is no one thing that says I am scum that I can quote for you, it's just the way he's been acting." calling it a freudian slip

Okay this is v. weird because I read that completely different. And Coron doesn't defend it how I read it so... a point against Coron.

How I read that was: There is no one thing that says "I am scum." that I can quote for you, it's just the way he's been acting. (With the I am scum part referring to Hez)

Punctuation helps. Yet, Coron didn't defend it this way.

Coron presents actual case against Hez in 192.

Unvotes in 194 because hez has an ability? Hmm...Maybe I was premature in believing Coron wasn't scum. (Essentially people who are adamant about other people being scum, then unvote when pressure starts to build on them are suspicious)

WoLG thinks that any voting role must be pro-town. I -really- don't agree so I post a big red x about this. (Based on Star Wars Mafia and Literary Mafia, which both had scum vote-affecting roles)

Now that I'm re-reading this, I don't really like MY post [197] because I find both Hez and Coron suspicious.

216 - Coron claims.
-------------------------------------------------------------
[217]- Oh look! Moocow is back, right after a claim. And I still think he's scummy! Imagine that.

He admits to keeping up with the discussion, but not participating because 'no one looked scummy'. (If no one knows by now, Ibby thinks people who don't find other people suspicious are suspicious!) And mentions how he thought Coron was possibly a Cop. This last thing is particularly telling with how moocow pops in right after the claim. Scum like claims.

Then he goes on to respond to me saying I have no 'real' reasons, yet I did. Then offers possibilities including 'paranoid cop' and asks if I know anything .. /fishing.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
3word agrees Coron should do it whenever he wants

Me, Sotty, and WoLG state that he should use it whenever is best.

Then 3-word decides he doesn't want Coron to use it whenever he wants -starts fretting over 1shot roles. (Note: Pooky had a one-shot thingy and 3word changed his mind after moocow posted a difference of opinion (keeping in mind the small connection I noted between them d1 and that I think moocow is scum)

Then a discussion ensues about whether or not Coron's role is pro-town. Honestly, this entire discussion gives me a headache. I hate speculating on setup type stuff. It comes down to if enough people think Coron is scummy, they should vote and lynch him.

At this point my suspicions are moocow, greyjoy, and 3word in that order. Almost the same as D1! greyjoy shows some signs that he could be working towards the benefit of the town, but I can't get past some things he's done. I'm also suspicious of Hez, but willing to let that be atm. My gut tells me Coron isn't scum, although I can now see a case against him that I was missing before.

We’ve gotten a bit past this point now. I started re-reading/taking notes and trying to make this post a few days back. I don’t think we should no lynch and am not sure why mathcam suggested it. We should go on trying to find scum regardless of Coron’s role. I think that mathcam withholding why his power was one-shot at first was a good idea. There are quite a few reactions we may be able to look back at later.

Maybe I am continuing to be narrowly focused myself, but I still like my vote on moocow and see no reason to change it.