Nomic

For completed/abandoned Mish Mash Games.
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Post Post #225 (ISO) » Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:46 am

Post by CoolBot »

There are other way of getting points than passing amendments:
  • Vote against a successful proposal (R.204)
    Post the rule set at the beginning of a page (R.301)
    Win a Trial by Combat as Player B (R.304)
To gain points so far, a player must do
something
that affects the game. If P.305 passes with any value of x, players don't have to do anything but finish turns, which is going to happen anyway.
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Post Post #226 (ISO) » Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:47 am

Post by CoolBot »

The Rule Set


101. All players must always abide by all the rules then in effect, in the form in which they are then in effect. The rules in the Initial Set are in effect whenever a game begins. The Initial Set consists of Rules 101-116 (immutable) and 201-213 (mutable).

102. Initially rules in the 100's are immutable and rules in the 200's are mutable. Rules subsequently enacted or transmuted (that is, changed from immutable to mutable or vice versa) may be immutable or mutable regardless of their numbers, and rules in the Initial Set may be transmuted regardless of their numbers.

103. A rule-change is any of the following: (1) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of a mutable rule; (2) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of an amendment of a mutable rule; or (3) the transmutation of an immutable rule into a mutable rule or vice versa.

(Note: This definition implies that, at least initially, all new rules are mutable; immutable rules, as long as they are immutable, may not be amended or repealed; mutable rules, as long as they are mutable, may be amended or repealed; any rule of any status may be transmuted; no rule is absolutely immune to change.)

104. All rule-changes proposed in the proper way shall be voted on. They will be adopted if and only if they receive the required number of votes.

106. All proposed rule-changes shall be written down before they are voted on. If they are adopted, they shall guide play in the form in which they were voted on.

107. No rule-change may take effect earlier than the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it, even if its wording explicitly states otherwise. No rule-change may have retroactive application.

108. Each proposed rule-change shall be given a number for reference. The numbers shall begin with 301, and each rule-change proposed in the proper way shall receive the next successive integer, whether or not the proposal is adopted.

If a rule is repealed and reenacted, it receives the number of the proposal to reenact it. If a rule is amended or transmuted, it receives the number of the proposal to amend or transmute it. If an amendment is amended or repealed, the entire rule of which it is a part receives the number of the proposal to amend or repeal the amendment.

109. Rule-changes that transmute immutable rules into mutable rules may be adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among the eligible voters. Transmutation shall not be implied, but must be stated explicitly in a proposal to take effect.

110. In a conflict between a mutable and an immutable rule, the immutable rule takes precedence and the mutable rule shall be entirely void. For the purposes of this rule a proposal to transmute an immutable rule does not "conflict" with that immutable rule.

111. If a rule-change as proposed is unclear, ambiguous, paradoxical, or destructive of play, or if it arguably consists of two or more rule-changes compounded or is an amendment that makes no difference, or if it is otherwise of questionable value, then the other players may suggest amendments or argue against the proposal before the vote. A reasonable time must be allowed for this debate. The proponent decides the final form in which the proposal is to be voted on and, unless the Judge has been asked to do so, also decides the time to end debate and vote.

112. The state of affairs that constitutes winning may not be altered from achieving n points to any other state of affairs. The magnitude of n and the means of earning points may be changed, and rules that establish a winner when play cannot continue may be enacted and (while they are mutable) be amended or repealed.

113. A player always has the option to forfeit the game rather than continue to play or incur a game penalty. No penalty worse than losing, in the judgment of the player to incur it, may be imposed.

114. There must always be at least one mutable rule. The adoption of rule-changes must never become completely impermissible.

115. Rule-changes that affect rules needed to allow or apply rule-changes are as permissible as other rule-changes. Even rule-changes that amend or repeal their own authority are permissible. No rule-change or type of move is impermissible solely on account of the self-reference or self-application of a rule.

116. Whatever is not prohibited or regulated by a rule is permitted and unregulated, with the sole exception of changing the rules, which is permitted only when a rule or set of rules explicitly or implicitly permits it.


Mutable Rules

201. Players shall alternate turns in alphabetical order by screenname.

202. One turn consists of two parts in this order: (1) proposing one rule-change and having it voted on, and (2) throwing one die once and adding the number of points on its face to one's score.

In mail and computer games, instead of throwing a die, players subtract 291 from the ordinal number of their proposal and multiply the result by the fraction of favorable votes it received, rounded to the nearest integer. (This yields a number between 0 and 10 for the first player, with the upper limit increasing by one each turn; more points are awarded for more popular proposals.)

203. A rule-change is adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among the eligible voters. If this rule is not amended by the end of the second complete circuit of turns, it automatically changes to require only a simple majority.

204. If and when rule-changes can be adopted without unanimity, the players who vote against winning proposals shall receive 10 points each.

205. An adopted rule-change takes full effect at the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it.

206. When a proposed rule-change is defeated, the player who proposed it loses 10 points.

207. Each player always has exactly one vote.

208. The winner is the first player to achieve 100 (positive) points.

In mail and computer games, the winner is the first player to achieve 200 (positive) points.

209. At no time may there be more than 25 mutable rules.

210. Players may not conspire or consult on the making of future rule-changes unless they are team-mates.

The first paragraph of this rule does not apply to games by mail or computer.

211. If two or more mutable rules conflict with one another, or if two or more immutable rules conflict with one another, then the rule with the lowest ordinal number takes precedence.

If at least one of the rules in conflict explicitly says of itself that it defers to another rule (or type of rule) or takes precedence over another rule (or type of rule), then such provisions shall supersede the numerical method for determining precedence.

If two or more rules claim to take precedence over one another or to defer to one another, then the numerical method again governs.

212. If players disagree about the legality of a move or the interpretation or application of a rule, then the player preceding the one moving is to be the Judge and decide the question. Disagreement for the purposes of this rule may be created by the insistence of any player. This process is called invoking Judgment.

When Judgment has been invoked, the next player may not begin his or her turn without the consent of a majority of the other players.

The Judge's Judgment may be overruled only by a unanimous vote of the other players taken before the next turn is begun. If a Judge's Judgment is overruled, then the player preceding the Judge in the playing order becomes the new Judge for the question, and so on, except that no player is to be Judge during his or her own turn or during the turn of a team-mate.

Unless a Judge is overruled, one Judge settles all questions arising from the game until the next turn is begun, including questions as to his or her own legitimacy and jurisdiction as Judge.

New Judges are not bound by the decisions of old Judges. New Judges may, however, settle only those questions on which the players currently disagree and that affect the completion of the turn in which Judgment was invoked. All decisions by Judges shall be in accordance with all the rules then in effect; but when the rules are silent, inconsistent, or unclear on the point at issue, then the Judge shall consider game-custom and the spirit of the game before applying other standards.

213. If the rules are changed so that further play is impossible, or if the legality of a move cannot be determined with finality, or if by the Judge's best reasoning, not overruled, a move appears equally legal and illegal, then the first player unable to complete a turn is the winner.

This rule takes precedence over every other rule determining the winner.

301. If a player finds they posted the first post on a new page, he or she shall immediately post the numbered and currently active rules. If the player does this before anyone else posts, he or she shall recieve 5 points. If the player does not do this before anyone else posts, he or she shall lose 10 points.

302. Each player has 72 hours from the time their turn begins to submit a new proposal for voting. If he/she does not submit a proposal on time, the turn will move to the next player. If any player forfeits their turn three times during the course of the game, they shall be removed from the game.

303. Every player is an eligible voter. Every eligible voter must participate in every vote on rule-changes.

304. (Trial by Combat) After any vote (proposed, say, by Player A) in which all but one of the eligible voters votes yes (say, Player B), Player A may challenge Player B to a game of Paper-Rock-Scissors (conducted via PM to the current Judge, or the next player up that is not Player A or B). If Player A wins, Player B must change his vote to yes and the proposition pases. If Player B wins, Player A must give Player B one tenth (rounded up) of his current points, with a minimum of five points (this can make Player A go negative). The only bond preventing the game's judge from cheating is his honor at mafiascum.
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Post Post #227 (ISO) » Fri Jan 09, 2004 12:07 pm

Post by mathcam »

Okay, I too now get it: amend "x" into something before voting on it. Got it.

I've been thinking about it...I'm not sure how anyone can win this game at all. Can't whoever's about to win be thwarted by a passing proposition from everyone else reducing their points to zero?

The only way I can see winning this game is if the rules become so technically complicated, that no one realizes that someone's about to win because of some unnoticed loophole in one of the propositions. This sounds fun and all, but we
could
be using our propositions to make the game more interesting.

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Post Post #228 (ISO) » Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:57 pm

Post by PolarBoy »

That's what I was doing. This is going to create complication as even though getting a rule passed gets you points, others get points as well. It makes another factor to keep track of. It's something I think anyone in the game can exploit also. Following is my finalized proposal.

Proposal 305. Directly after the voting on a rule is completed, every player receives 10 points.
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Post Post #229 (ISO) » Mon Jan 12, 2004 8:00 am

Post by mathcam »

Okay, I think we've had enough discussion.

Vote: Yes
.

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Post Post #230 (ISO) » Mon Jan 12, 2004 8:27 am

Post by shadyforce »

Vote: Yes
[size=75][color=darkblue]I'm never wrong... well I was wrong once but that was when I thought I'd made a mistake but hadn't.[/color][/size]
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Post Post #231 (ISO) » Mon Jan 12, 2004 11:35 am

Post by Stewie »

Vote: yes
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Post Post #232 (ISO) » Tue Jan 13, 2004 5:26 am

Post by massive »

Vote: Yes
only because I think it will be interesting to see how people change it in the future.
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Post Post #233 (ISO) » Tue Jan 13, 2004 7:56 am

Post by PolarBoy »

Vote: Yes
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Post Post #234 (ISO) » Tue Jan 13, 2004 8:08 am

Post by Fishbulb »

I don't see anything wrong with it. But I guess I fail to see the point in it as well. Couldn't we just lower the amount of points needed?

*shrug*

Vote: Yes
[url=http://fishbulb515.blogspot.com/][b]Fishblog![/b][/url]
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Post Post #235 (ISO) » Tue Jan 13, 2004 8:40 am

Post by mathcam »

The reason I voted for it was simply for more complication...though I might have preferred something that depended on the turn number, or somethine like that. I'm sure the number of points needed will change at some point too.

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Post Post #236 (ISO) » Tue Jan 13, 2004 9:57 am

Post by CoolBot »

I've gone back and forth on this proposition. I like the idea of some sort of clock, but I don't really like it being tied in with points, and think it's set too quick anyway. So,
vote: No


Guess I better brush up on my Rock-Paper-Scissors skills...
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Post Post #237 (ISO) » Tue Jan 13, 2004 9:57 am

Post by mathcam »

Mathematics dictates always pick rock.

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Post Post #238 (ISO) » Tue Jan 13, 2004 10:38 am

Post by Fishbulb »

Here's what you need, CoolBot.

[url=http://fishbulb515.blogspot.com/][b]Fishblog![/b][/url]
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Post Post #239 (ISO) » Tue Jan 13, 2004 11:01 am

Post by Scalebane »

Vote Yes
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Post Post #240 (ISO) » Tue Jan 13, 2004 11:51 am

Post by PolarBoy »

Fishbulb, that is amazing.

And here we have it. The first ever trial by combat. Coolbot and I are to send a choice to mathcam, who will judge the result.
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Post Post #241 (ISO) » Tue Jan 13, 2004 12:02 pm

Post by mathcam »

I have received choices from the following players:


PolayBoy.

These are the players who RPS choices have yet to be submitted:


CoolBot

Cam :)
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Post Post #242 (ISO) » Tue Jan 13, 2004 5:30 pm

Post by CoolBot »

Sent.
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Post Post #243 (ISO) » Wed Jan 14, 2004 3:45 am

Post by mathcam »

Tie game! Scissors for both (<--check out this judge's honesty) :)

resubmit.

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Post Post #244 (ISO) » Wed Jan 14, 2004 4:24 am

Post by shadyforce »

*Whispering*: And the tension is building for this magnificent occasion. Two giants of the Rock-Paper-Scissors game standing face to face. Two competitors, only one can be triumphant. I haven't felt tension like this since the great Bobby Aldridge, the RPS champion back in 1963. The prize for these 2 modern day giants of the game is huge, and both are desperate to get it. Standing like statues, each trying to psyche the other out. They raise their arms slowly, trying their best to supress any emotion other than sheer determination. As they judge signals the start, and counts out loud the number one, they both raise and drop their arms in unison, with the rest of their bodies standing so still. I don't know how they do it. As the judge calls out two, you can see the tension building in their face, they almost can't stand the tension. And this is it, the moment we have all been waiting for. The judge opens his mouth and the 't' sound starts. The competitors raise their hand for the third and final time. Not an inch of movement from either of their clenched fists. And slowly and carefully they both drop their arms for the final time, about to reveal their choice. The judge still on the 'rrr' part watching closely, and just then the judge finally mouthes 'eee' and the hands spring open to reveal...
[size=75][color=darkblue]I'm never wrong... well I was wrong once but that was when I thought I'd made a mistake but hadn't.[/color][/size]
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Post Post #245 (ISO) » Wed Jan 14, 2004 9:01 am

Post by mathcam »

CoolBot (rocks) beats PolarBoy (scissors). Clearly sub-optimal play by PB. Tsk tsk.

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Post Post #246 (ISO) » Thu Jan 15, 2004 3:08 am

Post by CoolBot »

:D

So when I'm calculating the points I get, do I do so before or after PolarBoy gets his points from this turn?
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Post Post #247 (ISO) » Thu Jan 15, 2004 4:00 am

Post by mathcam »

Isn't it 5 points in either case?

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Post Post #248 (ISO) » Thu Jan 15, 2004 6:05 am

Post by PolarBoy »

Coolbot earns 5 and I lose 5 from trial by combat. That means that now it is Scalebane's turn. He has 72 hours from the time mathcam announced the final results of trial by combat to make his initial proposal. That means he has until Sat Jan 17, 2004 8:01 pm GMT.
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Post Post #249 (ISO) » Thu Jan 15, 2004 7:10 am

Post by CoolBot »

mathcam wrote:Isn't it 5 points in either case?
You're right; that's what I get for overthinking things.

Oh, and I have 20 points, not 10. I gained ten from posting the rule set on this page.

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