Mini 304: This is NOT Any Kind of Mafia (Mod Abandoned)

[Drummer]

I personally think that so far, the TLB issue, and more particularly people's responses to it, are all we have to go on. I've been away from the game this weekend, so I'll look over again and make a real post, but I think EmpTyger has a point that we should look at people who are trying to distract from TLB...

Thanks Ryan, I wasn't too sure about my Bacde vote. Now I've got you for my close second choice. Just in case.

First, I didn't get the impression that EmpTyger thought we should look at those who are "trying to distract from TLB". And the way you worded that is making it sound like it's something sacred that must be the only topic of discussion. Why do you think that the only way to find scum is by talking about the TLB issue? An issue that still isn't going anywhere(a fact that has already been pointed out)?

The way you're trying to guide this game back into a dead end is really worrying me. There is no reason at all to ignore our gut instincts, even if it is day 1. I'm really really inclined to vote for you, but I'm not fond of jumping around with my votes so quickly. I'll wait for everyone else's input first.

So...what do the rest of you guys make of that weird post?

[VitaminR]

I think that in a game where you give the majority of players the same role name, the mod would tend to make sure nothing can be gleaned from it by the town.

I don't think more speculation in that area will reveal pertinent information.

[ryanjunk]

I'm not trying to make any sacred cows over TLB. All I'm saying is, the reactions of people to it are still important. I'd agree that the mod wouldn't give away the whole game with an obvious setup, but the way to figure out people's motives is in their reactions. That's what Day 1 is all about. Conversation about TLB has shown a number of reactions. So, we should pay attention to that, and not be distracted from it.

So, if someone has something better to focus on, fine. But most of the discussion thus far has been TLB; it's discussion that will show people's motives and scum tendencies.

EmpTyger said he had an "odd feeling" about Yosarian for discouraging the TLB issue, and that he doesn't feel we should quickly dismiss our discussions about flavor. Maybe that's not outright saying "we should all vote for anyone who doesn't want to talk about TLB" but it's certainly within the realm of "we should look at people who are trying to distract from TLB". I don't see how you can honestly say you didn't get that impression from Post #248:

Tamuz:
It’s Day 1, in a game starting in daytime: I’m not sure discussion about flavor should be quickly dismissed as irrelevant. Though to be honest, I have nothing besides that at the moment other than my feelings about Drummer. I’ll do a reread later and see if I find anything else.


Yosarian:
I really have an odd feeling about how discouraging you have been about the TLB issue. You seem awfully sure that it can’t be helpful for the town. At the very least I would like an explanation for why you referred to LTB rather than TLB in [197].

You read that and don't get the same impression as me? How pray tell do you read it? So, you claim that I'm misreading what is a fairly obvious post, and use that as evidence against me? Psh.

Vote: Drummer

[Yosarian2]

Just so I understand: you were thinking that the mafia aren’t TLB, but were given that as a safe claim?

(shrug) I think it's possible. There are several possibilites, like I said before. I would tend to think that the mod would set up the way in some kind of fair way that wouldn't set the scum up for failure, but we don't know.

As I said before, when we catch a scum and find out what the scum's role names are, we might have a better idea. Until then, I'm not really going to worry about it, unless someone has a suggestion for some way in which you think the TLB thing is going to catch us a scum today.

[inHimshallibe]

Vote Count - Day 1

rajrhcpfreak - 2 (micigante, Yosarian2)
Tamuz - 1 (rajrhcpfreak)
inHimshallibe - 1 (cropcircles)
Drummer - 3 (EmpTyger, Adele, ryanjunk)
Bacde - 1 (Drummer)

Not voting, soon to be fooled - 4 (Bacde, JechtMurray, Tamuz, VitaminR)

12 alive, 7 to lynch

I have a replacement, I think, in the wings; I'm just awaiting confirmation. That one's for micigante. I'll start working on cropcircle's replacement.

[Drummer]

Let's see if I can get the tags right.

Tamuz:
It’s Day 1, in a game starting in daytime: I’m not sure discussion about flavor should be quickly dismissed as irrelevant. Though to be honest, I have nothing besides that at the moment other than my feelings about Drummer. I’ll do a reread later and see if I find anything else.


Yosarian:
I really have an odd feeling about how discouraging you have been about the TLB issue. You seem awfully sure that it can’t be helpful for the town. At the very least I would like an explanation for why you referred to LTB rather than TLB in [197].

You read that and don't get the same impression as me? How pray tell do you read it? So, you claim that I'm misreading what is a fairly obvious post, and use that as evidence against me? Psh.

Vote: Drummer

This is bull. Exactly what I'm beginning to expect from you. You aren't even paying attention to

your own words.

The point isn't that we should forget TLB. I've said that, uh, at least once already. The point is that there ARE other things to be focusing on as well. You should be aware that it is a scum tactic to use only part of what another player says to try and incriminate them. If you're gonna make some weak argument against me, at least get your facts straight first.

Vote:Ryanjunk

. Heck, whatever your role is, I'm not sure that there's anyway your death will hurt the town. He's either mafia or a...wow, that's about as close as I usually go to insulting a person. You can fill in the rest, I'm sure.

Anywho, he's a better choice that Bacde by far. Everyone was suspicious of him. He threw out a role that could be on the town or mafia's side. And he hasn't had any good argument for himself the whole game. The only reason he hasn't been lynched yet is 'cause he used a rolename that part of the rest of us have as well. Obvious candidate as far as I'm concerned.

[Drummer]

Hmm...apologies if that post sounded offensive. You'll find that it is characteristic of me to respond this way when presented with the argument that I saw. Not to say that I'm changing my vote, but I don't want an actual argument to come about.

[Bacde]

Drummer makes more sense to me than Ryanjunk. I just read over their posts in the game and Drummer does not give me an anti-town feeling at all. Quite the opposite, he seems genuinly looking for scum.

Ryan, on the other hand, I am not quite so sure is scum, but I can say that I haven't been getting a strong gust of feeling in the other direction. Since IMHO a vote is always better than no vote at all, I will give it a go and

Vote: Ryanjunk

[Adele]

I'm sorry for my absence; I don't need replacing, I'm just kind of away. I'll be back on Wednesday, and I'll be opinionated

[ryanjunk]

The only thing I have in my defense is that I named Taco Liberty Bell before I knew anything about what it meant. Of course, if you believe scum were given this as a safe claim, that doesn't mean much; but if it were, I wouldn't have come out with it relatively early. Anyway, either way I'm a safe lynch for today, as I'm vanilla; but it'd be better to get scum.

As for the rest of Drummer's points:

This is bull. Exactly what I'm beginning to expect from you. You aren't even paying attention to your own words. The point isn't that we should forget TLB. I've said that, uh, at least once already. The point is that there ARE other things to be focusing on as well. You should be aware that it is a scum tactic to use only part of what another player says to try and incriminate them. If you're gonna make some weak argument against me, at least get your facts straight first.

I don't see how I'm getting any facts straight. In your post #250, you say that talking about TLB is "a dead end" and that it's "an issue that isn't getting us anywhere". I'm sorry if you think it was a gross mistake for me to summarize your position as "forget talking about TLB", but that's the way I read it.

You haven't answered my questions about how exactly I so horribly misread EmpTyger's post. If nothing else, that's a bit odd as you go on to lecture me about how it's a scum tactic to misquote other people.

I went back to read your other recent posts, and you did say that it's still important to keep TLB in mind, so my vote is a bit of overreaction. I get a bit frazzled as Day One goes by, because of the extreme lack of information. As by your apology, I see you probably do too.

I'm willing to change my vote, but I'd like you to answer my questions regarding your reading of EmpTyger's post. That's my only sticking point right now, you're basically showing your own scum tell by misrepresenting what EmpTyger said.

[EmpTyger]

I have a very busy couple of days ahead of me, and cannot guarantee I will have time to post. Things should be better Thursday. Sorry. (Mod, replace if you feel necessary.)

[Drummer]

I don't see how I'm getting any facts straight.

I agree with you there.

You haven't answered my questions about how exactly I so horribly misread EmpTyger's post. If nothing else, that's a bit odd as you go on to lecture me about how it's a scum tactic to misquote other people.

You say that it's plain as day that EmpTyger meant one thing. I say it's plain as day that he meant another. Let's review the post again.

Tamuz:
It’s Day 1, in a game starting in daytime: I’m not sure discussion about flavor should be quickly dismissed as irrelevant. Though to be honest, I have nothing besides that at the moment other than my feelings about Drummer. I’ll do a reread later and see if I find anything else.


Yosarian:
I really have an odd feeling about how discouraging you have been about the TLB issue. You seem awfully sure that it can’t be helpful for the town. At the very least I would like an explanation for why you referred to LTB rather than TLB in [197].

I still have not seen your explanation for how he DID mean that TLB should be the only topic of discussion. It appears to me as if he has the same general opinion that the rest of us have. TLB shouldn't be the only thing we look at, but it shouldn't be ignored either. He says nothing about a witch-hunt after all those who have discouraged the idea of TLB. He simply feels that Yosarian is discouraging the idea too much.

[ryanjunk]

You're continually misrepresenting what I said. I never said TLB should be the only thing we discuss, and I confirmed that in 252. Here's what I said:

I personally think that so far, the TLB issue, and more particularly people's responses to it, are all we have to go on. I've been away from the game this weekend, so I'll look over again and make a real post, but I think EmpTyger has a point that we should look at people who are trying to distract from TLB...

I said that TLB was the only hard information we have so far, and I said we should "look at" people who are trying hard to distract from it. I never mentioned a "witch-hunt", nor did I in any way imply that EmpTyger is trying to start a "witch-hunt". I just said we should "look at" those people. EmpTyger said one such persion gave him "odd feelings" and I agreed. For you to characterize that as me advocating that "TLB should be the only topic of discussion" is at best a misreading of my post and at worst scummy. For you to imply that I read EmpTyger as saying "we should start a witch-hunt" is at best a misreading of my post and at worst scummy.

I'm repeating myself here. Things have been attributed to me that I didn't remotely say. I never called for a "witch-hunt" and I never said TLB should be the only thing we talk about, nor did I ever imply that EmpTyger said either of those things.

Perhaps my language that TLB and its responses are "all we had to go on" is confusing you; here I just mean that this is the only hard evidence we have so far; who claims TLB and who doesn't, and that multiple people are TLB. Plus the myriad of responses and statements about it. In no way did I mean to say this is the only thing we discuss; merely that outside of TLB it's all the typical Day One "gut feelings", random bandwagons, and so on. We should certainly keep our eye on our one hard source of evidence, and we should certainly keep an eye on people trying to distract from our one hard source of evidence.

So, I ask again: where in any of my posts do you find language that in any way says "witch hunt" or "ignore everything that isn't TLB"? Where in any of my posts do you find me saying that EmpTyger said those things?

[Drummer]

::SIGH::

I KNOW you didn't use the exact phrase "witch hunt." I chose that phrase. Just because your EXACT PHRASE wasn't "ignore everything that isn't TLB", doesn't mean that it wasn't your meaning. You are incredibly difficult to communicate with. The entire basis of your current argument is that I didn't use exact wording. As usual, you're missing the whole meaning of my statements. That's another point all in itself. I said that you were misinterpretting my posts. Then surprise, surprise, you tried to use the same thing, saying that I was doing that to you. I'm sick of arguing with you. You've got no points to your argument and you've certainly got no logic, so I'm done. My vote's gonna stay on you today.

Everyone else:You can try to decipher his posts if you wish, I can't get anything useful from them.

[ryanjunk]

I'm not looking for exactitude, or anything like that. I just don't believe that anything I posted went anywhere NEAR with-hunt territory. Find me a single thing I said that even implies "witch hunt". I'm telling you right now that wasn't my meaning, and I'm asking you to show a single thing I said which ever implied it.

[Drummer]

I've told you that I'm done and I wasn't lying. Here's what you'll get every time you bring it back up.

I personally think that so far, the TLB issue, and more particularly people's responses to it, are all we have to go on. I've been away from the game this weekend, so I'll look over again and make a real post, but I think EmpTyger has a point that we should look at people who are trying to distract from TLB...

You DO state that TLB is the only thing to go on. That means that there's nothing else to discuss. Stop pretending you didn't say it. Then you say that we must look at the people "who are trying to distract from TLB". Just the wording shows that you think TLB is the only issue at stake.

I hope that that doesn't get repetitive, but if you keep bringing it up, you'll be seein' it a lot.

[Yosarian2]

Ok...why is there a bandwagon on Drummer, exactally?

Anyway, I'm definatly keeping my vote on Raj until he starts participating. I still think he's more likely scum then not, and the way he was posting fairly often when the spotlight was on him, but has vanished since we moved on, has made me even more suspicious of him.

[ryanjunk]

Aha. Just because something's the only thing we have to go on, does not mean by far that we should only discuss that. Just means we shouldn't ignore it. By all means, we should discuss any other information people have or think they have. So you see, now you've answered my question. You interpreted my saying something is "the only thing we have to go on" to mean "never discuss anything else". This is not what I'm saying. I'm just saying because it's the only thing SO FAR that we have to go on (no cop investigations, no people doing really scummy things, no real vote history to look at because we don't have any verified town or scum), we shouldn't completely dismiss it.

Your completely aggressive response notwithstanding, I'm going to

Unvote

because I now understand what you were misinterpreting. But I maintain an

FoS: Drummer

for said aggressiveness.

[VitaminR]

After re-reading the thread, this seems like the thing to do:

Vote: rajrhcpfreak

Seems to be stuck on his initial votes which weren't based on much. Has not commented on the TLB-thing at all. He basically voted Tamuz for disagreeing with him and is sticking to it when there is a lot more substantial stuff to comment on in the meantime.

I am not sure I see the reason behind the ryan vs. Drummer thing. A lot of discussion based solely on the interpretation of one post.

[Drummer]

Yep. Can't argue with that.

Ryan: I read "aha" at the beginning of your post and skipped the rest of it. Hope you understand. It looks like we misinterpretted

each other's

posts to some degree. I don't want to talk about it anymore.

Now that I've reviewed and ignored any angry thoughts I have about Ryan, I'm finding that it looks more and more like a toss-up with him. He's suspicious in my eyes, but then there's the way that he claimed TLB and seemed unaware of anyone else having the same role. Makes me rather less sure of myself. All the same, he's the best vote choice at the moment.

But I also agree about Raj's oddness. I wondered about him earlier in the game and if he ever shows up again, he might rekindle my suspicions. He could be another good possibility if I have more doubts about Ryan.

[rajrhcpfreak]

checking in for the day...

unvote

i went back and i was going to attack tamuz but i didnt see any evidence, or atleast hard evidence. and the i tried with vitR and then drummer.

right now suprisingly i havnt found anything.

and yes drummer i am usualy odd in games.

[Tamuz]

Why did you choose VitaminR, Drummer and myself to reread and look at?

[rajrhcpfreak]

you all were the ones attacking me. so if your attacking me then you must be bad.

[Tamuz]

OMGUS logic, if that isn't a great scumdar I don't know what is.

But what baout Yossarian2, he also attacked you with similar points to myself. You make no mention of him, perhaps this will be telling when one of you are dead?

[inHimshallibe]

IMPORTANT GAME ANNOUNCEMENT

Welcome elvis_knits, our replacement for micigante!