Outwitted - Mini 1254 (Game Over)

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Don't try and take the high ground here Yos. "Gave me a chance?" Bullshit. You were going to vote me regardless of what I said.

Of course I wasn't. If that was true, I would have voted for you last page. I had a town read on you earlier this game, and I actually was hoping you'd give me a reason to think you were town so I could lynch GreyICE or someone instead. But you still can't seem to give me a pro-town reason for why leaving the doc at lynch -1 could possibly be a pro-town move in a situation were you yourself said that you now believe him because he wasn't counterclaimed, so I have to conclude that you're probably scum.

This whole exchange has basically solidified my scum read on you.

Ok, so you don't like it when I question you, suspect you, or point out the holes in your logic. Fair enough, that's a pretty typical scum reaction.

No, I have to conclude you're scum when you try to push certain agendas based upon shitty halfassed scum logic.

Like Andrius conf. town.

Or "I'm scum for leaving Andrius at L-1".

None of these hold water. At all.

[Yosarian2]

No, I have to conclude you're scum when you try to push certain agendas based upon shitty halfassed scum logic.

Like Andrius conf. town.

When someone claims doc on day 1, you don't lynch them.

When someone claims doc on day 1 in a game where the mod has told you that there is a doc and where the setup logic dictates that there is a town doc, you both don't lynch them and you assume they're telling the truth unless you have reason to think otherwise.

It's really not that complicated.

Or "I'm scum for leaving Andrius at L-1".

None of these hold water. At all.

Really?

If a major town power role is at lynch -1, and it looks like they might be quickhammered, you really don't think that scum would have a motive to leave their vote on that person and hope that they get quickhammered by some dumb townie? You really don't understand why that looks like possible scum-motivated behavior to the rest of us?

[Zang]

Don't try and take the high ground here Yos. "Gave me a chance?" Bullshit. You were going to vote me regardless of what I said. .

You have no reason to assume that.

[Yosarian2]

Anyway, taking a step back, I really think that the Andreus wagon was strongly scum-pushed. I'm betting there were at least two scum on the wagon. Based nothing, no new evidence and on no new arguments, the wagon suddenly went from nothing to lynch -1, and there's no way that happens to a weak wagon like that unless the scum voting block are putting their weight behind it. I mean, take a look at how it went:

Well that was fun

Unvote:
Vote: Andrius

SPYREX OBEY YOUR BLOOD CONTRACT

Well that was fun

Unvote:
Vote: Andrius

SPYREX OBEY YOUR BLOOD CONTRACT

I can support this.

Vote: Andrius

THE CONTRACT WILL BE FULFILLED

Unvote, Vote: Andrius

Unvote, vote: Andrius

Andrius wagon... hmmm...

OH NO FATE I'M BUSSING

Vote: Andrius

Oops, you done cocked up.
Now you get to squeal.

Vote: Andrius

And all this happened in less then 11 hours.

The only person who seemed to have any reason at all for his vote was Darox, who apparently didn't like Andrius's post # 256 or 257 for some reason. The rest of it was based on nothing.

No way in HELL is that a town-driven wagon without at least some scum on it. I mean, just look at the SPEED of that basically logic-free wagon.

Fate is probably town, since at least he unvoted as soon as the claim happened. Darox I have mixed feeling about, but he dosn't look as bad as some people on the wagon. And a lot of CES's other posting looks pretty townish to me. So I'm guessing that out of (Spyrex, GreyICE, Lambdadelta), that at least two are scum.

[Fate]

Tell us WHICH ones your scumbuddy

PLOX

[Yosarian2]

Tell us WHICH ones your scumbuddy

PLOX

Lady Lamda, obviously. I tried to defend her earlier, but now we're distancing from each other. Help me bus her.

[SpyreX]

I never voiced any suspicion of Andrius before that vote. True story.

(I'm also still not very suspicious)

[Zang]

A lady lambdadelta lynch is seeming much more appealing now but I'm going to wait for a votecount before I vote for her.

I never voiced any suspicion of Andrius before that vote. True story.

(I'm also still not very suspicious)

So why did you vote for him?

[GreyICE]

This gets more words later but the leap from "there is a protective role" to "WE KNOW ANDRIUS IS A DOC" is somethin else.

This.

Bodyguard and Jailkeeper, off the top of my head, are still fucking protective roles. In point of fact I think Jailkeeper is a lot more interesting with this mechanic than Doctor, as Cop+Doctor is still fairly fucking effective with this mechanic, while Jailkeeper+Cop is a LOT more interesting (consider that a Cop can fire out ABOVE a jailkeeper - at the cost of large amounts of points). I have this nightmare vision of a Jailkeeper an a Bodyguard claiming and finding ourself left with, I dunno, a tracker and a bulletproof when the smoke clears from the corpse of Andrius.

I want Yos fucking deep sixed.

If any of you think I'm voting for LLD, btw, you can bite me. She's not the lynch today.

[GreyICE]

A lady lambdadelta lynch is seeming much more appealing now but I'm going to wait for a votecount before I vote for her.

OH HEY I COULD LYNCH ZANG TOO

[Lurconis]

Everyone needs to get back on the Yos wagon.

After the Andy claim thing Yos posts 298 saying it creeps him out that he was left at L-1 and not believing the claim. At this time this was not enough for him to actually vote darox or LLD who were the ones posting during that time leaving him at L-1 before fates unvote or seraphim who said he was willing to hammer.

He lists Darox and GrayIce as people who seemed scummy on the andy wagon in 301, then in 328 the people he is willing to lynch are Spyrex and GrayIce and asks Darox to explain why he left Andy at L-1 after the claim.

It isn't until 330 he questions LLD and even then he just asks her whats going through her mind not a specific question as he did to Darox.

Long and short is he calls people out on the andy wagon for being scum doesn't mention LLD, specifically asks question to Darox who did the same thing as LLD posting after the L-1 claim but does not ask LLD.

Mentions LLD doesn't make sense to him then bam 3 votes on LLD and Yos goes super aggressive and tunneling all of a sudden and lays down the 4th vote only replying to the parts of LLD's posts he wants and ignoring parts like where she points out she never asked for a hammer.

Scum waiting to join a bandwagon to seem like he isn't wagon hopping.

VOTE: Yos

[Yosarian2]

Bodyguard and Jailkeeper, off the top of my head, are still fucking protective roles.

I already said that, you know. Pretty much word for word.

Sure. If it turns out there is some other protective role in the game (Bodyguard, jailkeeper, I donno, faith healer, who knows), then I'll stop considering Andreus 100% confirmed.

If you're voting for me here while not even reading my posts, then that pretty much confirms for me that you're scum.

[Yosarian2]

Everyone needs to get back on the Yos wagon.

After the Andy claim thing Yos posts 298 saying it creeps him out that he was left at L-1 and not believing the claim. At this time this was not enough for him to actually vote darox or LLD who were the ones posting during that time leaving him at L-1 before fates unvote or seraphim who said he was willing to hammer.

Yes. My first priority at seeing that the doctor was at lynch -1 WAS TO STOP THE DOCTOR FROM GETTING LYNCHED. I wrote that post before I even finished catching up, because I wanted to make damn clear that we were NOT going to lynch the fucking doctor.

He lists Darox and GrayIce as people who seemed scummy on the andy wagon in 301, then in 328 the people he is willing to lynch are Spyrex and GrayIce and asks Darox to explain why he left Andy at L-1 after the claim.

It isn't until 330 he questions LLD and even then he just asks her whats going through her mind not a specific question as he did to Darox.

Yeah; I had a pretty strong town read on LLD earlier in the day, as I mentioned before. I was kind of still in denial at this point, I really didn't want her to be scum. It sucks that it turns out she probably is.

Mentions LLD doesn't make sense to him then bam 3 votes on LLD and Yos goes super aggressive and tunneling all of a sudden and lays down the 4th vote only replying to the parts of LLD's posts he wants and ignoring parts like where she points out she never asked for a hammer.

"super aggressive and tunneling"?

Even after she voted me (which was hella scummy, considering that she was calling me town until I started questioning her) I still kept my vote on SpyreX for another page.

it was only after she proved completely incapable of even faking a pro-town motive for her behavior that I finally gave in voted her. And even now, I've still been questioning her and and trying to confirm her alignment. It's pretty rare that I get an early town read on scum, my early town reads are usually pretty reliable, and even now I'd love to unvote her if she could convince me that I'm wrong and she's town.

Scum waiting to join a bandwagon to seem like he isn't wagon hopping.

VOTE: Yos

...

The irony of you posting this, and then putting me at lynch -1, is pretty painful.

[Darox]

Aaaaaaagh there are to many QUOETS amd WAlLS.

Unvote, Vote: LLD

It's a good vote.

I voted Andrius because he was very clearly one of two things, and the way he was hounding me suggested that he was not the town one. Didn't unvote because I wasn't worried about him.

Suggesting a number claim is anti-town regardless of whether you could combine cards or not.

But that's wrong.

[Lurconis]

Even after she voted me (which was hella scummy, considering that she was calling me town until I started questioning her) I still kept my vote on SpyreX for another page.

You hadn't started questioning her yet when she voted you unless you consider

Um, the mod has TOLD US that there is AT LEAST ONE PROTECTIVE ROLE. That means if somone claims doc and they're not counterclaimed, they're 100% confirmed town.

questioning her?

it was only after she proved completely incapable of even faking a pro-town motive for her behavior that I finally gave in voted her. And even now, I've still been questioning her and and trying to confirm her alignment. It's pretty rare that I get an early town read on scum, my early town reads are usually pretty reliable, and even now I'd love to unvote her if she could convince me that I'm wrong and she's town.

Then why are you not responding to the fact that she never asked for a hammer that seemed to be a major reason for your suspecting her.

[zoraster]

Day 1

Andrius ( 0 )

(L - 7 )

Cogito Ergo Sum ( 0 )

(L - 7 )

Darox ( 0 )

(L - 7 )

GreyICE ( 1 ) Zang,

(L - 6 )

Lady Lambdadelta ( 5 ) LLamarble, Cogito Ergo Sum, Andrius, Yosarian2, Darox,

(L - 2 )

LLamarble ( 0 )

(L - 7 )

Lurconis ( 0 )

(L - 7 )

Fate ( 0 )

(L - 7 )

Seraphim ( 0 )

(L - 7 )

SpyreX ( 0 )

(L - 7 )

*** Yosarian2 ( 6 ) ***

Fate, Seraphim, SpyreX, GreyICE, Lady Lambdadelta, Lurconis,

(L - 1 )

Zang ( 0 )

(L - 7 )

No Lynch ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 0 )
Total Votes ( 12 )
Needed to Lynch [ 7 ]


Deadline: 11:00am EDT on Friday, October 14th

Could you clarify

that the two investigate roles, the one protective role, the bulletproof, and the townie are all pro-town roles? Thank you.

No.

[Yosarian2]

Even after she voted me (which was hella scummy, considering that she was calling me town until I started questioning her) I still kept my vote on SpyreX for another page.

You hadn't started questioning her yet when she voted you unless you consider

Um, the mod has TOLD US that there is AT LEAST ONE PROTECTIVE ROLE. That means if somone claims doc and they're not counterclaimed, they're 100% confirmed town.

questioning her?

Yes, that is what I meant. I guess it wasn't actually a question, but I pretty clearly wanted an explanation for why she was having doubts about Andreus' claim, despite what the mod told us.

it was only after she proved completely incapable of even faking a pro-town motive for her behavior that I finally gave in voted her. And even now, I've still been questioning her and and trying to confirm her alignment. It's pretty rare that I get an early town read on scum, my early town reads are usually pretty reliable, and even now I'd love to unvote her if she could convince me that I'm wrong and she's town.

Then why are you not responding to the fact that she never asked for a hammer that seemed to be a major reason for your suspecting her.

No, she never actually asked for a hammer, you're right. She just deliberately kept him at lynch -1 after he claimed doctor and tried to get people to doubt his claim, even though it should have been compeltly obvious to everyone that the claim was legit at that point.

Even if you have doubts about a claim, when a key role like doc claims, the normal townie thing to do is to at least temporally unvote them if they're at lynch -1, just to prevent anything dumb from happening. And I still don't get why she doubted it; her whole "HE COULD BE A SCUM DOCTOR" thing makes zero sense to me; why would there even be a scum doctor in a game where the scum seem to be the only killing rile? How could a "scum doctor" be a protective role the mod told us we had? When's the last time you even saw a scum doctor in a mafia game? As a theory, it seems just so incredibly unlikely, that I really don't believe that she believes it herself.

Anyway, take a look at the Andreus wagon yourself. Do you really think that the town doctor goes from zero votes to 6 votes in 11 hours for no apparent reason without any scum supporting the wagon at all? Think about it.

[Yosarian2]

Could you clarify

that the two investigate roles, the one protective role, the bulletproof, and the townie are all pro-town roles? Thank you.

No.

Fair enough. Didn't really expect the mod to clarify that, but I thought it was worth a try.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

And I still don't get why she doubted it; her whole "HE COULD BE A SCUM DOCTOR" thing makes zero sense to me; why would there even be a scum doctor in a game where the scum seem to be the only killing rile?

Wrong.

[Yosarian2]

Wrong..what? Are you claiming scum doctor, Lady?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

in a game where the scum seem to be the only killing rile?

Wrong.

[Yosarian2]

...

God damn it all to hell.

Are you actually claiming vig now?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

...

God damn it all to hell.

Are you actually claiming vig now?

An Even Night one at that.

Now Yos, you can get your ass lynched today, or I can shoot your ass tonight.

^-^

[Yosarian2]

Motherfucker.

Well, isn't that awesome. The town is now 3 for 3 for wagons that out town power roles, since I am the tracker, and probably the only living town info role.

unvote

We are so fucked.

Only information I have is that either CES didn't do anything night 1, or else he is a scum who outbid me. Since I only used 1 point, that wouldn't have been hard. The way the tracker role works is that if I use any points, I find out what my target did if they were a town power role, but I have to spend more points then the scum do to see if they killed anyone.

Also, my role PM only talks about the scum nightkill and town power roles, so I'm pretty sure there aren't any scum power roles like scum doctor.

[Yosarian2]

Anyway,

Vote:GreyICE

. LLD's role is 100% confirmable in a game with only one scum group, so we can assume she's town until she has a chance to prove or disprove her role. With her being town, then assuming there was town on Andreus's wagon, then GreyICE is almost certanly scum.