Hiplop, contribute more instead of just saying 'this makes sense'
You and Tans are disgusting me right now. Play the game before I cut you.
@Kast, with the revelation that there can ONLY be a recruit if ToastyToast lied about blocking Nikanor, how do you react to that? I.e., there's only two mafia left.
THIS IS LYLO BITCHES, DON'T JUST THROW OUT A VOTE AND SAY 'OK'... POST SOME CONTENT.
Been thinking things through, still think it's Kast/Hiplop.
Kast - are you aware it's against the rules to encrypt messages/cryptography into your posts? This is severely frowned upon by most mods. Also to boot, it is especailly against the rules if you are doing so to inform your fellow mafia members of your results.
@Mod - I request a modkill on Kast for encrypting secret messages into his posts AND for doing so to tell his mafia partners of his results. =P
...
Relooking @ Kast's posts, I think it was mafia telling his minions what he found out at night. Why else post it so early and right away? What was Kast's intentions? Kast included it in his very first post, ASAP, after death occured. Would a REAL tracker go through that trouble, or only mafia trying to get a message to their partners?
As stated by the Mafia Specific Rules, cryptography is similar to talking outside the thread, especially if another party (fellow mafia members) know how to decrypt the code.
Do you know anything about law? It's not about the exact wording, it's about the principal and logic behind the law.
In this case, the logic is: Do not use secret code, it equates to talking outside the thread (especially if another party knows exactly how to decrypt the code).
BB wrote:I have mod confirmation that vanillialization happens AFTER roleblocking...
I'm guessing you're making assumptions based on what mod told you, because when I asked, mod explicitly wouldn't answer clearly
despite being a target of the vanilla ability
. Mod would not confirm whether the vanilla ability blocked our tracking result or whether it was the result of another ability. We also were told we don't know when a hypothetical vanilla ability would happen in the order because it would depend on whether the hypothetical ability said it blocked actions or not. This specifically was not clarified at the beginning of D5 when we asked again to try and determine if KJ could be telling the truth or could be cleared.
Since there are abilities that interact with other abilities, then you need to apply NAR's golden rule.
Actions:
-TT JKs KJ.
-??? vanillizes TT
-KJ recruits ?Tans?
Assuming KJ did not use any sort of blocking or redirection on the Vanillizer, then the vanilla resolves first since there are no actions that affect it.
-??? Vanillize succeeds and prevents TT from acting
-TT's JK is vanillized away
-KJ's recruit attempt succeeds
Under NAR, the ordering only matters when there is a conflict of abilities (or if the ability specifically states otherwise).
*IF* KJ had been the vanillizer, then your clarification would be relevant (which is why I asked the same thing to mod at the start of this day...but mod wouldn't give a clear/straight answer). In that case, then ordering would determine whether TT gets vanilla'ed or whether KJ gets blocked. Mod didn't want to clarify before, but I assume that since KJ is dead now, it doesn't clear/directly affect anything.
BB wrote:Regardless, I ALSO have confirmation that if there WAS a culted-person (just one) that the only way he/she wins is if he is one of the last two players standing AND it would result in a JOINT win.
Good idea to ask this; however you realize culted mafia would not get stuck in a situation with just 2 players right? Assuming this game works like BNM, if Black Lanterns culted mafia, the culted mafia retains the mafia factional kill ability. The question/point I made earlier was wondering what happens if black culted one mafia member and the game ended up with that culted mafia and one non-culted mafia. They couldn't lynch each other. They couldn't night kill each other.
It seems reasonable to have a Black Lantern/Mafia joint victory in that case.
A different/mirror situation for this would be the event that one townie is recruited and the only players remaining are the recruited townie and one non-recruited townie. In that case, neither has a kill ability and neither can be lynched.
BB wrote:In other words, if a mafia-turned-cult happened, it is in OUR advantage, because now they can ONLY win if they are in the final two with a TOWN member, not a mafia member.
If a mafia-turned-cult happened, it is a TOWN LOSS if we don't lynch him. The fact that Friend maintained his Mason-Lover status despite being culted, but that Kdub lost his
vigilante
is pretty much proof that cult recruiting in this game works the same way as BNM; recruited player loses his personal PR, but keeps any factional PRs (Mason QT/Lover Ability/Mafia QT/Mafia Factional Kill/etc.).
As far as the early flipped mafia, none of the first three posted much, but they did have the similarity that despite posting very little, they all made a point to protecting Vezok. This might be indication that Vezok is powerful scum (ie. Sinestro, GF-Vanillizer)
Spoiler: Toog - Mostly avoided antagonizing people; defended Andy and Vezok (as well as Kdub and Toast)
Attacked
*LLD - Early vote, claimed RVS/joke
*Muffin - Sheeped CJ's attack
*Ooba - Alternate wagon to his own lynch (no reasons provided really...)
Defended
*Kdub - Believed/defended the miller claim
*Andy - Dismissed wagon as RVS/joke
Toast - Dismissed wagon as RVS/joke
Vezok - Defended as a player normally seen as a VI/scapegoat
Spoiler: GW - Sheeps a few people (no mafia); Buddies the obv townies; Defends Andy/Vezok/Tans
Attacked
*Ooba - No reasons
*CJ - Attacks him for "warning scum"
*Friend - Attacks him for disagreeing with Mastin (more buddying)
*WLC - Sheeps WLC as CR case
Defended
*Mastin - Buddied him
*Andy - Buddied him
Vezok - Defended him in the name claim dispute with Hiplop
*LLD - Buddied her
*InHim - Buddied him
Tans - Defended Larfleeze claim as flavor-town
*Nik - Defends D1 gambit
Spoiler: Apok - Initially attacks Andy/Vezok w/o reasons; Later defends both and calls them town; Pushes CJ and weak mudslinging on half the remaining playerbase
Attacked
Vezok - Calls Vezok not scummy then votes and unvotes him
*Andy - Calls him scummy but doesn't vote
*Ooba - Sheeps the main wagon
*Mastin - Attacks his random reads
*CJ - Argued about Mastin
*Tans - claims for reasons previously stated...but the only previous mention was agreeing with Tans...
Defended
Vezok - Defends Vezok from Hiplop but votes him anyway then unvotes and defends him
*Andy - Later calls him pro-town (no explanation on how this changed from before)
inHim - Believes him/buddies him
Post #1042 deserves a separate analysis since it has more content and marks a change in playstyle (to a degree #671 also marks an unexplained change in reads):
Attacks: Muffin, Hiplop, WLC, Peregrine, CJ, Kast
Buddies: Nikanor, Toast
Neutral comments for: BB, Tans, Andy
A string of "catch up" style one liner remarks that don't look aimed at lynching any of the subjects (except CJ) but look more aimed to sow distrust.
Also caught this while reading through:
Vezok wrote:My ability seems stronger after I realized this is double lynch.
Please explain this statement. Your claimed "delay" ability doesn't seem to have anything to do with double lynch.
An ability that is stronger in double day implies some vote/lynch related ability (e.g. Governor, Vote-Stealer). That soft claim almost seems like setup for faking a double voter claim later (presumably coordinating with Apok).
KAST, as I just said, if there is a F#CKING culted mafia, and they are the only cult alive, they can only win if they are the final two with a town member, in which case it is a joint win. THIS IS MOD-F#CKING CONFIRMED.
Why the hell are your arguing against something that is mod-confirmed?
Also, MOD-F#CKING CONFIRMED that roleblocks happen BEFORE vanillialization, so Toasty's roleblock went through and there is no recruit.
If Tans or Kast are the final recruit and you were mafia and know the last mafia, I will guarantee you a spot in the final 2 slot.
Also just got confirmation from the mod because I re-asked both questions to double check:
YOU EITHER MADE A BAD ASSUMPTION OR MISREAD WHAT THE MOD POSTED. IF YOU WERE
BLUFFING
, THEN NOW IS THE TIME TO COME CLEAN, THERE IS ABSOLUTELY ZERO REASON TO INCREASE CONFUSION NOW WHEN WE CAN EASILY CONFIRM THINGS WITH MOD.
@Mod-
-If the game ends with a single culted town member and a single non-culted town member (recruiter already dead), does the Town and Cult have a Joint Win?
(Can't lynch each other and no kills)
-If the game ends with a single culted mafia member and a single non-culted mafia member (recruiter already dead), does the Mafia and Cult have a Joint Win?
(Can't lynch each other and can't kill each other)
-If there was a hypothetical ability that turned a player into vanilla, what part of the NAR order would it fall under:
--If it roleblocks the target?
--If it does not roleblock the target?
-Do actions in this game follow the Golden Rule of NAR or does it JUST follow the order?
--For example,
@BB-
You'd have a point if a TOWNIE got recruited. However, a recruited TOWNIE won't know who the mafia are, so if we're in that situation, then it wouldn't help (also if we're in that situation, it would probably be you or TT).
The PROBLEM with your plan is if a culted mafia recruit comes forward and names someone, then we lynch that person he names; if the person he names is non-mafia, then we're fucked. Mafia/Culted Mafia kills a townie at night. The following day the remaining townies get end-gamed, Town LOSES, and Mafia & Cult Joint Win.
-If the game ends with a single culted town member and a single non-culted town member (recruiter already dead), does the Town and Cult have a Joint Win?
(Can't lynch each other and no kills)
Yes
-If the game ends with a single culted mafia member and a single non-culted mafia member (recruiter already dead), does the Mafia and Cult have a Joint Win?
(Can't lynch each other and can't kill each other)
I will not confirm this either way. It would depend on what culted and non-culted mafia is able to do, which I will not reveal to you.
-If there was a hypothetical ability that turned a player into vanilla, what part of the NAR order would it fall under:
--If it roleblocks the target?
The roleblock part.
--If it does not roleblock the target?
The miscellaneous part.
-Do actions in this game follow the Golden Rule of NAR or does it JUST follow the order?
I think one would say that it follows the Golden Rule AND the order.
--For example,
BLOCKING
happens
BEFORE
REDIRECTING
. However, if PLAYERA
ROLEBLOCKS
PLAYERB and PLAYERC
REDIRECTS
PLAYERA to PLAYERD, then does PLAYERB get
ROLEBLOCKED
?
In this situation, PlayerB would get roleblocked, and PlayerD would not.
"In these revered pages lies all the knowledge of the Guardians. Our rings will ask what it knows, and translate its text into words you understand. Watch and learn..."
Kast: Think about it. I delay someone a night. If it was a single lynch the next night the ability goes on. If it's second lynch it takes twice as much time for the ability to come back.
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In post 3623, vezokpiraka wrote:Kast: Think about it. I delay someone a night. If it was a single lynch the next night the ability goes on. If it's second lynch it takes twice as much time for the ability to come back.
