Brightest Day Mafia, Part 1 - GAME OVER

[Blackberry]

Errr, just a correction, when I said MAFIA GOON, I simply meant, ORIGINAL MAFIA (vs. recrutied mafia). The goon = godfather in my scenario if it's Vezok, if it's Toasty then it doesn't matter >_<.

@Kast - saying they killed Muffin to implicate you doesn't make sense when I was going to investigate you in the plan >_<

[Killjoy]

Quick phone post

Kast, you are acting as if all of your assumptions are correct. You are flailing and just making noise. Andy did not follow Kdub's plan because he targeted Ludi with a roleblock which was not part of the plan. Unless you are claiming you know he killed Kdub?

How is my understanding of NAR wrong? You act under all of these assumptions and then using those to try and discredit what I am saying.

Blackberry, Toasty is not mafia. He has confirms from others and it makes no sense to have 2 scum roleblockers. if you are using Poe then the scum team lies within Kast Vezok and Hiplop.

I am not scared of Hiplop because his result would turn up town unless he is mafia but I doubt it.

And Kast you are an illogical noise maker.

[Blackberry]

[quote="In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p3479185]Blackberry, Toasty is not mafia. He has confirms from others and it makes no sense to have 2 scum roleblockers. if you are using Poe then the scum team lies within Kast Vezok and Hiplop.[/quote]

Vezok is also a 'roleblocker'-ish role --_--. Confirmed by OS N1.

...

And as I said before, I think Andrius/Toasty claimed Andrius' real roleblocks together is a possibility. And now that Andrius is gone, Toasty is suddenly vanilllialized... hmmmm. Toasty's only confirmed roleblocked is OS N2 I believe.

I don't think ANY of Andrius/Toasy's roleblocks were ever confirmed except for OS N2 and N4 they both claimed to have targetted Ludi.

[ToastyToast]

Thats just a bunch of speculation with crap for proof and you know it.
Even if its a possibility, you cannot in anyway prove it to be more likely than another outcome

[hiplop]

Bb not going to lie i never fully believed you :-$ also the others took priority

I think cop is stronger than bg, consudering itsboth aligments,buti suppose thats subjective

Kast seems townie to me atm, his play really seems like hes mad than hes trying to get peopleto get off him.

Nikanir is reminding me of CJ right now :-\

[Blackberry]

Toasty - what are you even talking about?

Do you know what isn't speculation?
Vezok - innocent result
Tans - innocent result
Kast - innocent result
hiplop - WL
killjoy - WL

Where do you think that leaves you Toasty?

...

You know what, I'm fine with hiplop using his investigation on me. I've stated time and time again that OS used something on me and Ludi clearly states that to indicate I am not aligned with the mafia. If yall are too dumb to see that, waste the investigation on me if it clears your doubts >_<.

I do agree with Kast's idea that, hypothetically, I could still be part of the cult somehow, though, keep in mind, both Toasty and Andrius claimed to have blocked Ludi N3.

[hiplop]

eh for someone whos paid lots of attention to the night roles and stuff: is it possible Andy/toasty are both scum, and andy just roleblocked for what toasty "did"?

[ToastyToast]

It means a cop is lying, BB.

Just like Nikanor lied about having a cop.
Just how Ludi/Oversoul lied and tried to get me lynched
Your playing into the vanillaizers trap bro

[ToastyToast]

And white lanterns aren't confirmed. Cuz there's this thing called FaKe ClAiMs

[Blackberry]

eh for someone whos paid lots of attention to the night roles and stuff: is it possible Andy/toasty are both scum, and andy just roleblocked for what toasty "did"?

I have said this twenty times already -_-

[Kast]

One of

Vezok

/Toasty is mafia
One of hiplop/

Killjoy

is mafia

QFT

[Kast]

@Kast - saying they killed Muffin to implicate you doesn't make sense when I was going to investigate you in the plan >_<

(1) We aren't claiming muffin was killed to prevent confirming me. That nonsensical fallacy was a straw man-paraphrased fabrication crapped out by Killjoy, who has clearly demonstrated an inability to actually address points, and instead just name calls, blatantly ignores posts as "flailing" (despite his definition of flailing being someone in immediate danger of lynch, which we aren't) or blatantly misrepresenting and lying.

(2) We argued, IN RESPONSE to KJ's accusation, that muffin's plan would have blocked us, thus if we were obviously not trying to coordinate in our favor (other than the general in favor of town winning).
To go into specifics:
KJ:

Kast is suspicious cuz he coordinated night actions to allow him to not get blocked so he can vanillize people

Kast:

What the hell? No I didn't. I suggested a plan that involved BLOCKING ME, so if I was vanillizer, it would have prevent me from even being able to vanillize. Muffin, a confirmed townie, proposed investigating me instead of blocking me. Then BB vetoed that idea and went back to my original plan where I would be blocked, not investigated.

KJ:

Now you are claiming muffin was killed to prevent him from proving you town! You must be mafia.

Kast:

What the hell? That isn't true, and that ignores what my actual point was!

BB:

You know Kast, KJ is right, mafia wouldn't kill muffin to prevent confirming you because they knew I would investigate you. Ya know. Despite the fact that I, BlackBerry, refused to follow Muffin's plan, insisting that I would not investigate Kast, and forcing muffin to go with the block on Kast plan.

and

(3) You investigating me was NOT part of the plan. See the last post by Muffin. You objected to investigating, claiming it was a waste and you wouldn't do it. Muffin agreed to block me instead and have you investigate Tans. You never indicated otherwise, so that's most likely the assumption everyone worked under. Doesn't matter; we aren't using Muffin's block on us as any justification for anything; we probably should, but we try to play in an objective manner that doesn't require making crazy assumptions or the outright false and contradictory craplogic (ala KJ).

[Blackberry]

Vezok... are you still not hunting scum?

My mind keeps racing and thinks we're getting to screw everything up and that I'm missing something. But the pure fact you're not doing anything is similar to what Andrius did when he was like "Oh well, we're going to lose, let's give up, lalala."

...

Toasty, why aren't you voting your scum-partner Vezok? I'm highly curious.

[Blackberry]

Also, Kast, if you say straw man one more time I will unrelentingly vote you until you are dead.

Number 1 scum-tell in my books: Using terms such as WIFOM, etc., etc. Mafia do this to try to make others look bad with a preestablished theory. What they don't realize is that they use it too much, moreso, than normal townies do. You keep saying strawman over and over is making me highly suspect of you >_<.

[Kast]

Andy did not follow Kdub's plan because he targeted Ludi with a roleblock which was not part of the plan.

So instead of

actually

following Kdub's plan, Andy just

claimed to

but actually followed Mr. Subliminal's plan. Your objection is irrelevant to the point and purely an attempt to distract/nitpick instead of responding. You can slice it however you want; your premise is still wrong. IN ADDITION TO THIS, Kdub's plan (and whether Andy followed it or not) has no relevance to LAST NIGHT'S events.

Also to be clear, your attempted nitpicking means you did read my points but just decided to not answer or address them. Can we

assume

your attempt to confuse and distract from my points are admission that you have no valid response to them or would that be a "bad assumption that makes you wrong"?

Unless you are claiming you know he killed Kdub?

This doesn't make any sense. Under what "plan" are you claiming Andy killed Kdub? Did you read your mafia QT and mix-up Andy planning night actions for the mafia team as Andy planning night actions for town?

Additionally, if you have private info confirming/denying who Andy actually blocked on N3, that would be awesome. Even better, if you know for certain that Ludi was blocked instead of Kdub (which you're apparently claiming), then that would clear BB of being a recruit (if you were honest).

Number 1 scum-tell in my books: Using terms such as WIFOM, etc., etc.

And this is

your

pre-established theory?

[Kast]

How is my understanding of NAR wrong?

Delayer is not a blocking action. It is also in miscellaneous.

For actions which combine two other actions

use the first one listed

.

Using miscellaneous INSTEAD OF blocking simply because an action is "also in miscellaneous" demonstrates you do not understand how NAR works.

Claiming a "clear" in a situation where the priority of two actions is

THE SAME

further confirms that you don't understand how NAR works.

And what you just posted as NAR confirms that I cannot possibly be the Vanillalizer.

Attempting to use my brother's post as justification for a false NAR clear ALSO shows that you don't understand how NAR works (my brother did not apply the "Golden Rule"). It also shows that you did not read my brother's post properly. If you did, it would be clear that under BOTH understandings (how NAR actually works AND how my brother thought it works) you are NOT cleared.

[Blackberry]

@ Hiplop & Killjoy - Are yall in the Justice League?

@ Vezok - Are you in the Justice League?

[ToastyToast]

Toasty, why aren't you voting your scum-partner Vezok? I'm highly curious.

Because I am town who has been the target of one to many mislynches and who thinks a bit before placing down a vote. For example, although i see the reasons why to vote vezok, the BS reasons and theories people have formed are stirring me into the other direction.

For example, the innane thought that you think a scum team would have a delayer, a roleblocker, and a jailkeeper.
If anything, the pushes by both scum and the cult to get me lynched should prove that I am not alligned with them.
In addition, a large majority of the remaining playerlist continue to discount that white lanterns can be fake claiming.

BB, stop forming questions based on a bias you already have and will not change.

[ToastyToast]

@mod:could we plz get a vote count?

[Kast]

I love how the entire time KJ has been in the game, he's stated that he thinks Vezok is scum, but he has yet to actually vote on it. It's so obvious they are scum buddies and and he wants everyone to remember he pushed Vezok, once Vezok flips, but he's still hanging onto the chance that he can get a mislynch out of the day before vezok flips.

[hiplop]

no @justice

[Killjoy]

Andy did not follow Kdub's plan because he targeted Ludi with a roleblock which was not part of the plan.

So instead of

actually

following Kdub's plan, Andy just

claimed to

but actually followed Mr. Subliminal's plan. Your objection is irrelevant to the point and purely an attempt to distract/nitpick instead of responding. You can slice it however you want; your premise is still wrong. IN ADDITION TO THIS, Kdub's plan (and whether Andy followed it or not) has no relevance to LAST NIGHT'S events.

I don't understand the point you are trying to allude to with Andy not following Kdub's plan? He didn't follow it. I know that Andy's actions have no bearing on last night's actions. I realize that. What I said was Andy didn't follow a plan he actively supported (his or someone else's) and you are acting the same way Andy is with regards to the plan. You are tunneling the crap out of me because I am literally one of the last active townies Other than now Toasty and Blackberry (Blackberry please have common sense and don't follow Kast he is scum losing through his teeth trying to mislynch me).

Kast, your scumhunting like Blackberry said is full of wikitells and set up speculation that is confusing the town. You want town confusion. You are scum muddying the waters around you. Anyone actively listening to you is only hurting themselves.

Also to be clear, your attempted nitpicking means you did read my points but just decided to not answer or address them. Can we

assume

your attempt to confuse and distract from my points are admission that you have no valid response to them or would that be a "bad assumption that makes you wrong"?

Kast, I am not wrong about you being scum. You are nitpicking shown by your response above. I stopped listening to you or trying to address you because you are content with posting a crap ton amount trash, speculation filled with wikitells. I know this is hypocritical, but you are doing everything you are accusing me off (strawman, WIFOM). If you want to present your points succinctly instead of going them within a mound of babble, I will. I probably won't give you acceptable answers because you are scum tunneling me to death.

Unless you are claiming you know he killed Kdub?

This doesn't make any sense. Under what "plan" are you claiming Andy killed Kdub? Did you read your mafia QT and mix-up Andy planning night actions for the mafia team as Andy planning night actions for town?

Additionally, if you have private info confirming/denying who Andy actually blocked on N3, that would be awesome. Even better, if you know for certain that Ludi was blocked instead of Kdub (which you're apparently claiming), then that would clear BB of being a recruit (if you were honest).

Are you serious right now? ANDY CLAIMED ROLEBLOCK ON LUDI. What are you even saying? I said that as a a slip of yours based on a previous comment, but you oh so "cleverly" flipped that back onto me like a traditional mafia. Whoever is saying that Blackberry or Toasty are not town need to seriously reevaluate their scumhunting skills as well.

Your accusation that I am mafia is absurd. Why would Nikanor claim a fucking cop guilty on arguably the strongest flipped scum role? Having a janitor on a nightly kill is immensely helpful especially since the roles can be used for fakeclaims later on in the game.

Number 1 scum-tell in my books: Using terms such as WIFOM, etc., etc.

And this is

your

pre-established theory?

nice fluff. You don't even try to hash out the extremely accurate observation by Blackberry and instead flip the same thing on him so you can avoid the question. BB, do you see why he is scum now?

Kast, I obviously don't have the amount of time you have to devote to this game. I am spending literally all of my time arguing with you about your absurd comments. I thought I votes Vezok but apparently not. Not that it matters since you are just going to say "oh she has suspicion of course scum will vote when called out on it!" of course you are then going to say this response is another wikitell and the merry go round just keeps spinning.

Ok. My understanding of NAR is wrong. How does me being the Vanillalizer make sense since I am pretty sure another role (I think it was Toasty, correct me if I am wrong) roleblocked me on the night all if the vanillalizing abilities victims happened. It doesn't make sense for their to be 3 people vanillalized on one night even with a motivator, and for there to only be one. I don't even know why I am still talking to you. You want me to die and are doing anything in your power to say that anything I do or say is scummy.

VOTE: Vezok gonna get remarks from Kast about this no doubt since me breathing is scummy.

[Kast]

@TT-
Are you saying there are some good reasons for voting Vezok, but since some people also are using bad reasons you don't want to lynch him? Or are you saying you understand the reasons but think they are all bad? Or something else?

Specifically, if you are worried that BB will try to push a lynch on you as Vezok's buddy after his flip; it seems like you are overestimating how much support BB's attack on you has. It's likely that KJ will jump aboard. However that's probably it. Vezok's flip will almost 100% clear me, and given KJ's botched fake claim investigation on Tans, KJ will be unable to backtrack and push a Tans lynch. That means we'll have at least me and Tans pretty much cleared with KJ as the PoE vanillizer. Also, if Hiplop investigates

either

you OR KJ, it should give you a clear (provided you are town).

Disagree with your assessment about the WLs. BB, Hiplop, Kast, and Toast have all indicated suspicion of at least one if not both claimed WLs. KJ has expressed suspicion of Hiplop conditional of Hiplop not investigating him (retracted after the scumminess of his position was pointed out). Tans and Vezok haven't really said whether they trust WLs one way or the other.

@KJ-

Spoiler: KJ is not reading the game and not trying to find scum. He is right on one point, the volume of crap he keeps posting as he OMGUS tunnels me is unnecessarily distracting from the game.

-Pay attention. The whole reason I quoted Andy's statement about following Kdub's plan was because YOU STATED THAT ANDY WAS MAKING PLANS TO GET AROUND THE ROLEBLOCKS. Andy following ANYONE'S plan is evidence against your BS claim that you pulled out of your ass. Your attempt to sidetrack the discussion by arguing technicalities is what created confusion.

What I said was Andy didn't follow a plan he actively supported (his or someone else's) and you are acting the same way Andy is with regards to the plan.

This is a blatant lie. Your actual statements were that Andy

Ok. I am using a friend's computer, but I don't like Kast trying to guide everything. It is just like Andrius's play who flipped mafia.

Andy was making a lot of plans and night action guides that people followed and guess what, scum still were able to kill

Nothing in there says ANYTHING AT ALL about Andy not following any plan. It explicitly states that Andy planned out actions that allowed scum to avoid getting blocked. Your claim is blatantly false and you have not shown it. You were given a chance to retract your claim and actual quotes and links were provided so you could easily read yourself. Instead you just insisted you were right and tried to dismiss the counter-arguments by arguing irrelevant technicalities.

-Blackberry's complaint about using common mafia terms being a scumtell was a joke expressing frustration. Your obvious attempt to buddy/parrot BB is obvious and scummy. You are clearly running out of "cases" and grasping for straws. Many, if not all, of your "points" are completely irrelevant and don't reflect what has happened in our actual game.

-Explaining my points and explaining why your points are irrational is not the same as nitpicking. Posting that Andy didn't actually follow Kdub's plan is nitpicking. It is completely irrelevant to the point.

I stopped listening to you or trying to address you

This is false. You can't stop what never started

Are you serious right now? ANDY CLAIMED ROLEBLOCK ON LUDI.

Seriously read the game before posting. Using ignorance of what actually happened as an excuse to say whatever crap you want only gets you so far. Andy claimed a block on Kdub. He later changed his claim to a block on Ludi. This might have been true, or it might have been a lie to protect Ludi. At the time he was trying to keep Ludi alive because he knew he was going to be lynched next.

but you oh so "cleverly" flipped that back onto me like a traditional mafia.

Please explain how it is a "traditional" for mafia to point out that a crap-logic scum tell is crap-logic? Your statement makes an assumption that townies will not point out that a crap-logic, hypocritical attack is irrational. I contest that your assumption is horrible.

Whoever is saying that Blackberry or Toasty are not town need to seriously reevaluate their scumhunting skills as well.

Uh, non-sequitor much? BB and TT are the primary ones going after each other (mostly BB-on-TT with TT getting frustrated).

Why would Nikanor claim a fucking cop guilty on arguably the strongest flipped scum role?

The tactic you are relying on is what mafia players refer to as WIFOM. The tactic Nikanor was applying when he faked a cop result on Toog is referred to as a Gambit and more specifically a Bus. Given the complete absence of any backlash for False Claiming a D2 guilty investigation result on Toast, and given the free pass that Nikanor was given to Lurk through the enirety of D2, D3, and D4; it would seem his gambit was effective.

Since you also probably missed it, before playing this game, Andy finished a large theme game in which mafia used almost the exact same D1 Gambit to kill a powerful mafia member. This allowed the perpetrator of the gambit to lurk and coast until endgame and handed the win to mafia.

How does me being the Vanillalizer make sense since I am pretty sure another role (I think it was Toasty, correct me if I am wrong) roleblocked me on the night all if the vanillalizing abilities victims happened.

It was nobody. Kast was delayed by Vezok on N2 and so cannot be the vanillizer. Nobody has claimed any actions targeting Nikanor on N2. Nikanor did claim to have targeted both Tans AND Kast on N2. But if anything that condemns you; it's not a disqualifier. You are corrected.

@Mod/All

-
Gonna be V/LA for the weekend (as per norm).


If someone decides to hammer Vezok before I get back; keep note of how Vezok flips:
If he flips Mafia non-GF, then it is probably best for Hiplop to Day Cop BB.
If he flips GF-Redirector, then investigate Kast.
If he flips GF anything else, then Nikanor is probably the best bet.
If he flips town, then Nikanor is also best.

That should cover all cases. It would be preferable if Hiplop waits until all players have a chance to share their thoughts before investigating; but ultimately the investigation choice is up to him.

[Killjoy]

I found scum you daft mother!
You and Vezok! I guarantee that you are scum. I dont know why I am arguing with you Kast. It is hard to convince scum that they are scum.

[Killjoy]

Also, I am V/LA for the weekend. As per my signature.

Kast ... You are annoying and making this game a drudge. Please die.