Outwitted - Mini 1254 (Game Over)

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Vote: Darox

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Unvote, vote: GreyICE

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Unvote, vote: Lurconis

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CES is town.

I think I literally would've made the exact same posts had I been scum.

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He was pretty much the only one to have me pegged correctly in my last scum game, so fairly sure that's not true.

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CONFESS!

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If you believe seraph was soft claiming why didn't he do it in his first post?

Did you just go back and examine whether it made sense as a soft claim?

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Please don't undermine the case against Lurc by posting such silliness, GreyICE.

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People should get back on the Lurcwagon.

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Seraphim knows what's what.

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Better question, Zang: how are they at all similar?

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Zang, the reason they are utterly different in my mind is that Yos2 knows me and is an experienced player. His vote is boring stuff. Lurc doesn't know me; it's pretty darn likely that his vote was influenced by happenings in-thread. That's what opens it up to analysis.

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Zang, the reason they are utterly different in my mind is that Yos2 knows me and is an experienced player. His vote is boring stuff. Lurc doesn't know me; it's pretty darn likely that his vote was influenced by happenings in-thread. That's what opens it up to analysis.

Why didn't you say this when I first brought it up?

Because that's uninteresting. Playing this game out is much more informative.

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you're*

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Fate, you should get on Lurcscum. Trust me on this one.

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[ ]========

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I caught Lurc.

I also note that of the people I consider the better players in this town, you only have a solid town read on LLD.

Why would there be a relation between the two?

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1) is unsubstantiated at this point in time.
2) requires a level of explicit scum motivation that I wouldn't expect scum to insert into their play.

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Also did you just fucking type 'I don't expect scum to act with scum motivation when they post?'

Nope!

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Unvote, vote: Andrius

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This lurc wagon is still way better unless we're talking about secret meta. If there's secret meta, I want to hear the secret meta.

The secret meta was inside of you all along.

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Unvote, vote: Lurconis

For what it's worth, Zoraster totes didn't bold "may play more than one" at first.

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It's certainly implied. (Also: a priori likely).

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Eh, barely. Mistake's easy enough to make.

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CES, why'd you vote Andrius?

Shush you. You're supposed to let me get away with the bandwagonning like the rest are doing.

Unvote, vote: LLD

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Slushy snowballs.

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Yos, you should join the LLDwagon.

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If anyone quicklynched Andrius, and he flipped town, we'd have a good scum lead the next day.

^scum making stuff up

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If anyone quicklynched Andrius, and he flipped town, we'd have a good scum lead the next day.

^scum making stuff up

^ Idiot player grasping at straws to substantiate his claims.

What claims?

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@CES: You're calling me scum. What claims do you THINK?

That's certainly one interpretation of my actions, but it's certainly not the only one.

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LLD, what do you do on odd Nights?

I did want to see if CES specifically was a pro-town power role targeting anyone night zero, because last game I played with him he made a scummy-nominated brilliant doc fakeclaim, and I wanted to be able to at least catch him in a lie if he faked a doctor claim this game.

...

That was CrashTextDummy.

I pretty much always claim VT as scum, so yeah, not the best move.

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Weird that there's a role that doesn't send in a card each night. Wouldn't've expected it.

I just checked with the zor - the mafia's Kill cards are factional, so Yos got that wrong.

Unvote, vote: Lurc

I don't see the benefit of mass claim.

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Yos is confirmed town by virtue of him misunderstanding the kill mechanics anyhow.

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Mafia's kill cards are factional. They have 55 points worth, not 165.

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"You know this setup has: at least two investigative roles, at least one protective role, a single mafia team, no third parties, at least one town bulletproof (role PM below), and at least one Townie."
Only the bulletproof is confirmed town. Investigative and protective roles were explicitly not modconfirmed as town.

That's still implicit, not explicit, marble. (Not to mention bulletproofs tend to have their alignment specified more often, just like someone might say "I'm a town roleblocker".)

I don't see any problems balancewise. We also don't know what Zor has put in to balance things (e.g. Mafia Roleblocker, Miller).

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Also CES you're confused. The explicit modconfirmation of not confirmation was the other post I quoted for Fate in 461. Not that it matters.

Zor didn't explicitly confirm anything. He basically indicated he wouldn't answer the question.

P-edit: wasn't expecting that

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There's plenty of motive for Lurcscum to counterclaim here (and scum have daytalk, so), but the claim feels really legitimate.

Unvote, vote: Yos2

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It's not fixed?

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Do you guys really think zor would put two tracker variations in the same game to mess with us?

Vote: Lurconis

P.S. wouldn't be surprised if LLD were scum

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Why in the HELL with everything that went on yesterday would you track Darox? There's like.... 1? track that could have literally been worse. For more than a couple of reasons.

Verily.

Lurc's Today's lynch.

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Lurc is either a Mafia Tracker or his counterclaim was concocted by a more competent partner, I wager.

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Scum have daytalk. It's in the sample scum PM.

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You didn't think proving yourself as a tracker would be beneficial?

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Odds of you successfully tracking the kill were slim at best.

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Not really, but whatever gets you on the wagon.

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How much did you spend each Night, GI?

Oh and since there appears to be an investigative role, I should probably mention my heart is filled to the brim with Millery goodness.

(Which is part of the reason I think Trackers with different mechanics is bullshit - the scum already get one free pushable mislynch from me (not to mention that having 2 trackers with wildly different power levels flip the same could easily have lead to a mislynch in LyLo based on a balance argument).

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I play Miller cards. If I beat the cop, I show up innocent. (Sort of amusing that the point mechanic means that the miller and godfather are essentially the same role except for alignment).

GI is town barring a counterclaim.

Scum would doubleplusclaim bulletproof. The claim makes him more likely to be scum. Don't be dumb.

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Come on, Fate, you know that if I were scum with GI, I'd just bus the fuck out of him and shoot Seraphim at Night. I wouldn't go for the fancy miller claim.

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Your reaction was completely scum motivated regardless of GI/Seras alignments

I claimed because the possibility of investigations was there. I don't need to know whether Sera is telling the truth to make that call. Heck, him telling the truth only makes it marginally more likely that it'll come up.

So he could vig Grey tonight?
That'd solve all the problems

Except you know, the last vig got prevented. Odds are it'll happen again.

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Let's be honest - if I were the scum, I'd be the godfather. Only something so entertaining as claiming miller as godfather in a game where the two roles are essentially the same except for alignment would tempt me away from my standard scum claim of vt.

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Not sure whether you're being stupid or just scum.

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Not always, Fate, just often. Are you really going to argue that I should think you're obvtown this game?

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1) not that bulletproof.
2) prevent a kill = free lynch

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Welp, this is confusing.

I think GI is scums, BUT due diligence: Sera, why did you say that line about "9+7" to use the Cop role when you apparently don't have a 7? Also, please describe the mechanics of your role as accurately as possible.

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Mod

, Zang is voting for GreyICE. Also, the first post has one more Lurconis than it should.

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Do you still think 'marble would be the godfather in your little fantasy scum group despite my argument that I'd only claim miller as godfather, Fate?

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The fuck does it matter at this point?

Because I know Fatescum'd be dismissive of the argument while Fatetown'd probably recognize it as quintessentially CES.

If it wasn't for the BP stuff, I'd totally think Fate and GI were both scum.

SERAPH, answer my second question from before + if you didn't want to scum to know your numbers, why did you tell us your numbers later?

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I don't see how specifying what the four numbers are is supposed to help and I find it weird that you'd give misleading information at first to hide it (especially when it'd've been easy enough to give non-misleading info) and then later on just tell them pretty much unprompted.

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^I would've bussed one of these asshats a long time ago if I were scum with them.

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Uh, yeah, I would? Why the hell wouldn't I?

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If you had counterclaimed immediately, people'd just assume you're lying, Fate.

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Please explain your exact logic here. In what FUCKING UNIVERSE could there be two bulletproofs?!

Opening post says at least one bulletproof.

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It's actually not particularly unlikely that the Roleblocker would spend 55 on LLD if only because LLD spending similarly isn't a crazy notion.

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I think the fact that Seraphim brought up "trackers are secretly the same" at this point in the game I feel is pretty damning.

Plus, Fate is scum.

Vote: Seraphim

Actually can all players claim the numbers they threw in N2 and N3?

45 N2, 0 N3.

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It does feel wrong to be on GreyICE's side of the debate though.

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(two bulletproofs more likely than one BP and a backup my ass)

Way to focus on irrelevancies. An open mind is not a scum tell.

GreyICE is famed throughout the site for his combination of Fate's agression and Yosarian's logic and reason

I've always thought of GreyICE as mislynchbait myself.

while I am famed for...being controversial? For getting wagons on me, no matter my alignment? Certainly not for catching scum. No one has ever called me a player among the greats. Especially in my early history, I had a tendency of flaking. But I digress.

I for one thought you were town going into Today and came pretty close to throwing down a vote on GreyICE earlier. So it makes plenty of sense to me that you'd be the one claiming a guilty.

The whole avoiding a 1v1 with Fate shtick is nonsense. Fate is just as tied up in this as you and GreyICE. It doesn't matter one iota that you're the one being voted for.

Which means that it boils down to you or Zang.

Why the fuck is Zang special? Darox and Zang aren't all that different in my eyes.

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Your "My scum play is too good for this" argument is silly, Fate, considering you could say the exact same thing about me. My scum play is much slicker than this.

Basically none of the points made against Seraphim and his role have done anything to convince me and they all smack of the same logic that got both trackers lynched.

Just look at Fate then. If he were town, it'd be obvious at this point considering how much he's been posting lately.

Btw your "HEY ZANG I THOUGHT YOU WERE SCUM BUT MAYBE YOURE TOWN SO VOTE WITH ME" is really shameless as fuck.

Playing to win is shameless?

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How are you so sure it's Spy and not me, Seraphim?

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I liked the miller role. Set-up seems balanced.

CES how the hell did you not read me as town, how did you NOT read Grey as scum?

Because you were ignoring me? I tried to convince you I was town, but you just brushed me off.

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The "Roleblock LLD" plan makes perfect sense regardless of the scum though. Why the hell would you give the town a free town-directed kill when you can avoid it?

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Clarification question if I happen to target say a cop or a roleblocker etc.. and my card is higher I can track them as well correct not just the killer?

Eitherwar I target dorax and use my 6 card

Yeah. You track anyone. I was just showing that if the mafia kill is higher than your card, you won't track them to the kill. But if say darox is the tickler and you visit him to Zoraster, you'll see that.

From Lurc's question, it's pretty clear he's got a wrong notion about what his role does and your answer doesn't really address it. That seems like tacitly supporting his understanding of the role to me.

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for what it's worth, and I know I'll take some flak for this, but I've nommed GreyICE for cunning manipulator. I think insofar as that award is really meant for someone who manipulates people into doing something, GreyICE really succeeded in doing that.

Getting Spyre to vote for the wrong person is scummyworthy?

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Clarification question if I happen to target say a cop or a roleblocker etc.. and my card is higher I can track them as well correct not just the killer?

Eitherwar I target dorax and use my 6 card

Yeah. You track anyone. I was just showing that if the mafia kill is higher than your card, you won't track them to the kill. But if say darox is the tickler and you visit him to Zoraster, you'll see that.

From Lurc's question, it's pretty clear he's got a wrong notion about what his role does and your answer doesn't really address it. That seems like tacitly supporting his understanding of the role to me.

Maybe. As I said, I can understand how he misunderstood it, but without him asking me to clarify it further, I was kind of stuck. Otherwise it would have been me saying "oh hey, wait wait wait. You and Yos are BOTH town, silly." I certainly didn't intend to mislead him, whatever the result was.

I'm just talking about the PM Lurc sent. Obviously you can't respond to what he said in-thread.