Brightest Day Mafia, Part 1 - GAME OVER

[Kast]

@BB-
Its been answered multiple times that there's no flavor related to losing a ring or any item.

A townie is a member of town. If we're supposed to claim role as well, that's fine but not what was stated/asked.

Note for future, don't p propose last second objections to town action plans if its gonna just create unnecessary confusion.

@Tans-
You're still avoiding why/how I could be vanillizer given vezok's delay.

I already answered possibilities for the vanillas on N2:
-You are lying
-Vanilla ability is multi-shot
-Motivator turned the ability into multi-shot
-Vanilla ability is a combination of scum abilities and cult abilities

To be clear, the most probable situation is that KJ is the vanillizer. Tans reads as stubborn VI. Unfortunately the only other townie looking at the facts just got killed.

Note KJ completely ignored any questions about clarifying how his role works with the mods & didn't address the discrepancy between his claim & Nik's claim. Primarily, he didn't even attempt to see if we could get around potential GF issues (likely protecting vezok).

Also note his plan is crap logic-if he assumes I am mafia, then vezok has to be my partner (which he essentially admits in thesame post). But if he believes that & that vezok is probable mafia, then he should lynch vezok first. The plan for a Kast lynch is obviously an attempt to sneak in a mislynch on the only person who actually is looking at evidence & going after the clear scum.

Also note his proposal does nothing to test himself or prove himself; it was obvious from the beginning that he intends to claim an innocent result since a guilty would result in either his direct lynch or a1-for-1.

Share your result, if its guilty we lynch you first then Tans if you flip town. If its innocent, we learn nothing (except that you're playing like scum). In that case, then we could lynch Vezok as my brother just posted.

[ToastyToast]

Because if Toast gets in here and says right away "Yes, the flavor explicitly says blah, blah, blah" yet both of you are explicitly ignoring my question, that looks very suspect on both of you being together. Because if you were mafia faking vanillalized and didn't exactly receive the word-for-word PM then you wouldn't know how to answer that question. :-/

Wtf? I have answered every single one of your questions, so don't give me that BS.
Also, I'm the only Violet, not the only Indigo.

Why are people ignoring the fact that the cult is probably still alive?

@BB: Why do you think your action was redirected? What makes you believe that your results are inaccurate?

[Killjoy]

Super tired. Skimmed Kast's post but he looks like a flailer.

I'll respond in full when I've had a nap. Can't make promises though. :/ my Internet access is shitty too which means can't readily access this thread

Kast, you just said lynch me to verify Tans. Why can't I do that to verify whether or not Vezok is mafia by you flipping?

Also, mod hasn't responded so I'm waiting

What part of my claim doesn't make sense? Nikanor was playing like a crack head o.O

[Killjoy]

Still no result. Mod, come back please.

Kast, I think you said it, but there are very likely 2 mafia left because someone said that 1 has to kill, and the other has to vanillalize. You are most likely the Vanillalizer with Vezok who submitted the kill on muffinman. He flipped a joat, probably meaning he didn't block you because he had a 1-shot roleblock so that would allow you to submit the vanillalize on Toasty.

If anything your flip should confirm Vezok as town or scum. If you flip town, then Vezok is scum. If you flip scum, that throws everything into the air, but there is the possibility of Vezok being town.

You keep referring everyone to your claims and crumbs, when it is just as possible that you can fake those claims and crumbs as scum. One of you and Tans is lieing about being vanillafied. We are going to find out today when the mod comes back. If there is a redirector it has to be Hiplop and he should claim who he redirected the innocent on for Kast or Vezok.

I can't think straight when I am rushed to type things on these library computers. And no I am not dumb. That is very offensive and I expect an apology.

[ToastyToast]

@Killjoy: Sorry, but I don't see this connection between Vezok and Kast. Further explanation?

[Killjoy]

The mod returned a "statement is true" pm when Tans claimed I am aligned with town.

VOTE: Kast lieing scum caught

Toasty, Vezok could be lieing about his block on Kast n2 to let Kast shoot someone. Kast is probably pushing for a Vezok lynch as a form of trying to gain town cred not only from the lynch, but also because Vezok will flip delayer and Kast is probably going to pull the why would he lie/ I am a tracker speech.

[Killjoy]

Edit: because Kast knows that Vezok will flip scum

Needed to make that clear. I'll be aroun for another hour or so, so please ask questions between now and then if you want an immediate response.

[Kast]

@KJ-
To be clear, despite promising you would address my posts, you are choosing to NOT address them.

-My proposal with you and Tans is NOT equivalent to your proposal with me and Vezok. Claiming they are the same is classic scum crap-logic on the same level as Ludi's defense.

The short answer is:
-If you flipped town it guarantees Tans is mafia. If I flip town it says NOTHING about Vezok. IF the decision is to lynch one of Kast/Vezok, then the ONLY thing that makes sense is to lynch Vezok first.

Kast's Proposal:
-IF KJ has a guilty on Tans, THEN lynch KJ.
--IF KJ flips town, THEN lynch Tans
--IF KJ flips mafia, THEN Tans/Kast are cleared (Vezok is mafia GF by PoE and by his claimed Night Actions)
-IF KJ has an innocent on Tans, THEN lynch Vezok
--If Vezok flips town, THEN Tans/Kast are cleared so lynch KJ
--If Vezok flips mafia, THEN reexamine players for flips/behavior (you can push lynching Kast again if it still makes sense...which it won't but whatever)

Results of Kast's plan:
-The situation GUARANTEES a scum lynch no matter what KJ's affiliation is (and KJ-town would KNOW this guarantees a scum lynch).
-The situation lynches scummy players first, so if we DO have a 1-for-1 situation, we have better chances of making it 0-for-1.
-If Kast is mafia, then this proposal means Kast will most likely get caught/lynched.

KJ's proposal:
-IF KJ has a guilty on Tans, THEN lynch Tans.
--IF Tans flips town, THEN lynch KJ
--IF Tans flips mafia, THEN Kast/KJ are cleared (Vezok is mafia GF by PoE and by his claimed Night Actions)
-IF KJ has an innocent on Tans, THEN lynch Kast.
--IF Kast flips town, THEN reexamine players for flips/behavior (Kast town flip says NOTHING about Vezok and NOTHING about Tans/KJ)
--IF Kast flips mafia, THEN lynch Vezok.

Results of KJ's Plan:
-In the event that Kast is town, town is down one mislynch and scum are no closer to found than before.
-Requires a crap-logic jump to claim Kast MUST be mafia if Tans is not mafia
-Requires a crap-logic jump that IF one of Kast/Tans is a GF, then Kast is the GF

What part of my claim doesn't make sense? Nikanor was playing like a crack head o.O

Nikanor claimed he was bulletproof with "stipulations". Your avoiding this point is scummy.

Kast is probably pushing for a Vezok lynch as a form of trying to gain town cred not only from the lynch, but also because Vezok will flip delayer and Kast is probably going to pull the why would he lie/ I am a tracker speech.

Lolz actually Kast is pushing the "Vezok is scum as I've been saying", and "when Vezok flips GF, it clears Kast" because it is absolutely and completely 100% off the wall ridiculous to claim that scum just happen to have 2 GFs and both of them got investigated.

lieing scum caught

To be clear, you "decided" to investigate Tans instead of Kast because you thought it was possible that Kast might be a GF-Vanillizer and would thus screw with your result. In the event that scum Vanillizer

is

a GF-Vanillizer AND that Tans is the Vanillizer, why would your power work on Tans if it would not work on Kast? (this is one of the reasons for asking questions about your role...and I assume one of the reasons you avoided those questions?)

If you ARE a townie lie detector, then you are HORRIBLY misplaying your role by completely unnecessarily rushing things and refusing to clarify with mod how your ability actually works. If town loses as a result of a replacement jumping in and making a noob-OMGUS-misplay, that will be really annoying.

@KJ's result-
To be clear, KJ's claimed result would require one of these possibilities:
-Nikanor is lying
-There are 2 mafia GFs (Kast/Vezok)
-There are 2 mafia GFs (Tans/Vezok)
-One of BB/TT/Hip is mafia

@Hiplop-
Thoughts on Vezok and Nikanor. Also, do you think it is at all plausible that mafia has 2 GFs? Also, if you have any night action results from your OP WL power that you partial-claimed yesterday, please share.

@Toast-
Similar question: thoughts on Vezok and Nikanor? Do you think it is at all plausible that mafia has 2 GFs? And specifically, let's lynch Vezok now.

As far as cult; I doubt that there are any cult still present. It seems like the game started with OS/Ludi cult team and their N1 and N2 recruits were NPIAU and Kdub. On N3 it's unclear whether they were able to recruit anyone. I think the chance is low enough (Andy's backtracking on his claim seems slightly more like scum afraid of getting caught than scum lying to protect the CR). More than that, if Andy did not block Ludi on N3, then mafia would almost certainly have killed BB and nillized Muffin instead of killing Muffin and nillizing TT (mafia not killing cult on N4 means they risk getting out-voted and potentially recruited).

If Ludi successfully recruited anyone, it is

probably

BB like Ludi claimed. If BB was recruited as cult AND became the new cult recruiter, then last night he almost certainly recruited someone. That would mean we're screwed if we eliminate mafia, and we're screwed if we eliminate cult (3T/2M/2C). In that case we need to lynch one mafia and one cult then hope for a cross kill of mafia on cult.

We can start by lynching mafia.

@BB-
It seems like you absolutely trust Nikanor (for whatever reason), so fine, let's lynch Vezok for now. However, after Vezok's flip you're not allowed to flip-flop/fence-sit.

-If Vezok flips mafia-GF, then it should be obvious that I'm not mafia. If you're still hung up on the potential redirector at that point, then fine go for the Kast lynch. After my town flip, push Nik/KJ.
-If Vezok flips town, it clears me and Tans. At that point we lynch Nikanor.

@Lynch-
I'm vexed that it takes so much effort to get town to just do the clear and obvious thing (Lynch Ludi>Lynch Andy>Lynch Vezok/Nikanor). If there is no support for a Nik/KJ lynch, then let's lynch Vezok. His flip as GF should confirm myself and Tans. This pretty much PoE's KJ as the last possible mafia.

Obviously we'll have to take into consideration what Vezok actually flips; if he flips mafia non-GF, then it indicates either BB is mafia with him OR BB's suspicion about a redirector was correct.

[Kast]

VOTE: Vezok

Btw, I'd actually prefer a Nik/KJ lynch based on his scumtastic play; but since people are apparently willing to ignore actual scummy game play and to instead focus on speculative, convoluted role-interactions that were claimed to avoid a lynch, then fine we can go with number 2. If Hiplop/Toast/BB/Vezok are willing to lynch obv-scum Nik/KJ, then I'll move my vote there.

I'm ignoring Tans since he's already claimed in thread that he doesn't care playing this game or figuring out what's going on anymore.

[Kast]

but also because Vezok will flip delayer and Kast is probably going to pull the why would he lie/ I am a tracker speech.

Also, please don't claim that I would use such an idiotic and nonsensical "defense". If Vezok flipped Mafia-Delayer, that says nothing about whether I was actually delayed or not. The information we might gain from Vezok flipping Mafia-Delayer would be that BB's investigation on Vezok turning "innocent" is not a result of Vezok being GF. In that case it would mean either:
-BB is lying
-Scum redirected BB

If scum have a redirector who redirected BB, it is plausible that the person who did the redirection ALSO is a GF; however, that would mean there is no remaining scum to be the Vanillizer (at this point Kast could only be mafia if there is a 7 man starting scum team, AND Kast

STILL

wouldn't be the vanillizer).

[Kast]

If anything your flip should confirm Vezok as town or scum. If you flip town, then Vezok is scum. If you flip scum, that throws everything into the air, but there is the possibility of Vezok being town.

Look at this shit. Everyone including Tans already acknowledged that it is impossible for us to be mafia unless Vezok is ALSO mafia. Literally impossible. KJ's refutation of logic is to ignore objective and undeniable fact. How exactly is he getting away with this?

Toasty: let's keep this simple before KJ fucks your mind over with his crap logic.

Vezok claimed delay on Kast N2.

Kast, WLC, and tans claimed to be vanilla'ed on N2. If Vezok is town, then it is impossible for Kast to be Vanillizer.

The only POSSIBLE way that Kast can be scum is if Vezok is also scum, but the two are not tied together. This is called necessary but not sufficient.

This is an objective proof.

[Kast]

And no I am not dumb. That is very offensive and I expect an apology.

It's not offensive. It's accurately describing your conclusions. I find it offensive that you refuse to use logic or actually respond to objective, verified, proven logic. It is literally impossible for your suspicions to be true.

[Kast]

I can't think straight

You got that right. It doesn't excuse you for pushing the half-baked crap that you're trying to push. You obviously have NOT read the game and are making ridiculous claims based on having incomplete info about the game state. Did you just start panicking when I fingered you as the scum vanillizer?

He flipped a joat, probably meaning he didn't block you because he had a 1-shot roleblock so that would allow you to submit the vanillalize on Toasty.

Muffin claimed to have JUST RECEIVED an

UPGRADED ROLEBLOCK ABILITY

that screws the scum team if he RBs scum. Unless you're claiming that confirmed town Muffin, the person making the most sense this ENTIRE GAME, was LYING TO TOWN about his role; then kindly read up and realize what's actually happening and what actually happened so far in this game.

You keep referring everyone to your claims and crumbs, when it is just as possible that you can fake those claims and crumbs as scum.

It is IMPOSSIBLE for me to FAKE a CRUMBED TRACKER RESULT unless TANS AND KAST are scum together. If you genuinely believe that your claimed result actually clears Tans as town, then that same clear means Kast

has

to be an actual Tracker.

If you flip scum, that throws everything into the air, but there is the possibility of Vezok being town.

[sarcasm]Yeah because obviously town Vezok lied to protect Vanillizer-Kast. Town PRs are always lying to protect mafia. How would we figure out anything without you KJ?[/sarcasm]

Also, the previous 2 posts were from my brother, and I think both he and I are completely annoyed and frustrated by KJ's refusal to actually discuss and engage our points and insulted by his penchant for asserting that we are pushing the idiotic strawmen arguments that he keeps inventing.

Regardless it is inappropriate to call KJ dumb. Sorry about that. Your arguments have been crap-logic. Your play decisions have been terrible if you are town (semi-effective if you are mafia). But that reflects on your playstyle and ability to play mafia, not on you as a person. I'll talk to my brother.

I want to hear from BB/Hiplop/Toast regarding a Vezok lynch (it's pretty obvious KJ will refuse to lynch his buddy Vezok).

[Kast]

If you're dumb enough to waste it on me I will punch you in the face -_-.

And no I am not dumb. That is very offensive and I expect an apology.

It's not offensive. It's accurately describing your conclusions. I find it offensive that you refuse to use logic or actually respond to objective, verified, proven logic. It is literally impossible for your suspicions to be true.

Oh nvm, I thought Killjoy was talking to me since the entire rest of that post and paragraph were addressed to me. I assumed my brother must have posted calling him dumb and that was a response. Lol @KJ getting "insulted" by BB's statement. You have to forgive BB for posting that; better safe than sorry and given the rest of your posts so far, it's not unwarranted.

To be clear, agree with you 100% that nobody should be calling you dumb.

However, nobody DID call you dumb. So yeah...

[Blackberry]

Why the hell are you voting Kast - Mr. Killjoy?!

...

I'm contemplating lynching Killjoy...

Did Hiplop claim vanillalizer yet?

...

If we kill Killjoy, WORST-case scenario, he flips town, and we therefore confirm Tans is town .

...

Why isn't Toasty scum again? O.o

[Blackberry]

I think ALL of you will find the solution is as simple as:

Hiplop is mafia Vanillializer.
Vezok is mafia Investigation Immune Delayer.

....

Blackberry was the first to annouce it officially, just saying XD.

[tanstalas]

VOTE: Unvote
Vote: Vezok

[tanstalas]

Why the hell are you voting Kast - Mr. Killjoy?!

...

I'm contemplating lynching Killjoy...

Did Hiplop claim vanillalizer yet?

...

If we kill Killjoy, WORST-case scenario, he flips town, and we therefore confirm Tans is town .

...

Why isn't Toasty scum again? O.o

I can totally see Toasty being scum. The whole back and forth with Andy now that Andy flipped scum looks fake.

[Blackberry]

HIPLOP - your turn - claim vanillializer, or non-vanillializer.

If you claim non-vanillializer, and we lynch Vezok and he isn't the Vanillializer, I swear to god you are the mafia vanillializer.

=D

[ToastyToast]

Similar question: thoughts on Vezok and Nikanor? Do you think it is at all plausible that mafia has 2 GFs? And specifically, let's lynch Vezok now.

Andrius flipping scum roleblocker makes vezok a more likely town target. Also, a delayer is generally a town move.
It is not plausible that mafia has 2GFs. It is plausible that more than one would be unrecruitable

Nikanor is an idiot in this game, but I don't think he's scum. If anything, he would have been cult.

Also, my worries about cult are justified. Why else would the mods have to change the flavor of the flip to expand on the fact that Nekron is undying? Its just VERY fishy.

I can totally see Toasty being scum. The whole back aAlso, Kast, I thought you claimed a Vanillizer? But a town one? Like, claimed it a looong time ago too....nd forth with Andy now that Andy flipped scum looks fake.

So scum has three role blocking powers. Right....

Currently I see Tans and Kast as most likely scum (though, Kast has said himself how unlikely him as scum is w/o Vezok scum).

@Kast: could you please link me your full claim/ restate it?

[hiplop]

Im not vanillizer. I WAS the bodyguard, but when thw rungs were released- i became a MIDDAY COP, on the moment of the first lynch, i get to i vestigate someone. I figure i will investigate nk/vezok\kast one of them.

The wl picture after ludis death confirms me as town· as well as some fkavour iirc (something about willpower) if you dont know already, im hal jordan

I protected nik n1 because he was a claimed WL and i figured he was pretty strong like me

N2 i protected muffin, it was a slight imoulse save as i was on vla i think- but i picjec muffin for being protown and wl, as well as nik claiming to have fakenckaimed

N3 i protectes toasty - i thought he was going ot get CRed, soi wanted to makande sure he wouldnt, he claimed jk, so i protected him


My role pm says the wls are all good, so i assume alltown.

I lost my bg when rings went out, so i wasnt sure if ludi claim overlapped mine, as i lose it. I thought i would lose it a lot earlier than d4 tho

[Blackberry]

HIPLOP - Toasty is LiTERaLLy the only person who hasn't been investigated excluding the WLs. Use it on him :-/

[Blackberry]

Hiplop- why did you claim day 2 to have your ring. O.o

[Blackberry]

Toasty- is there proof you and Andrius blocked two different people in the same night? Based on my memory no one could ever confirm both blocks.

[hiplop]

Hiplop- why did you claim day 2 to have your ring. O.o

The wl pm, it confused me, and it came around the time sub claimed it, so i put 2&2 together and got 7