Verbose Mafia 2 - Post or Perish (Game Over)

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Thok, I don't know which novel you're talking about actually. So I'm sorry to say your flash of inspiration is not relevant to our situation.

But claiming the novel would practically be the same as claiming my name in this case. I don't have any sort of claiming restriction. I just feel it would be the wrong thing to do.

[Mr. Grey]

Vote Count:

8 to lynch.

VitaminR: 4 (Fritzler, PookyTheMagicalBear, Tamuz, the silent speaker)
Werebear: 2 (mikeburnfire, petroleumjelly)
Seol: 1 (Commodore Amazing)

Players Nominated: Commodore Amazing, DrippingGoofball, Fiasco, Fritzler, petroleumjelly, Seol, Tamuz, Thok, VitaminR, Werebear

Mod Note:

Deadline for Day is in approximately 21.5 hours.

[Fiasco]

This just gets worse and worse. Apparently MikeBurnFire read his PM, but missed the part about the other mason(s) being confirmed innocent. That is the first thing I would ask myself if I were a mason. I've seen the MikeBurnFire mask once before, in some nearly-forgotten past; the wearer was one of the three Magi then. They were masons but they did not know each other to be innocent, and had to ask the moderator (come to think of it his name was also Mr. Grey or something similar) for clarification. So I

know

this is an issue MBF is aware of. I can't believe he wouldn't read his PM closely for signs of guaranteed innocence. I especially don't think MBF would continue to be unaware of the guaranteed innocence

after Seol mentioned the issue as a direct question to CES, and Seol explicitly asked the other masons to look into it as well, and CES answered that, yes, they were guaranteed innocent

.

It also turns out they don't actually know each other's role names! At least, if I'm interpreting MBF correctly. I would have expected that information to be present in their role PMs. Even if it was not, I would expect them to exchange this information as a high priority during one of the nights,

especially

last night after CES was attacked for his Satanic posting restriction. CES says that if he reveals the novel they're from, that amounts to revealing his role name. Then how come MBF doesn't know CES's role name?

As for the "Jesus As Cat" message being a joke, MBF later said about that message, "I don't recall telling you not to attempt to decypher my messages." It's possible, but again, it gives off a bad impression.

If you two aren't scum, you've been horribly sloppy in your play, in my opinion. (At least MBF. It doesn't take that much energy to read your role PM closely, once, when you're asked.)

Re: VitaminR: I agree it's probably a bad idea to lynch him. If we think he's scummy, we can nomination-starve him to death; except if he's lying when he says that will kill him, and except if a scum partner nominates him anyway. In the former case, it will be clear that VitaminR is scum, and we can lynch him anyway. In the latter case, it will be obvious that whoever nominates him is scum, and we can lynch that person. I don't know why CES said the modus operandi for the kills doesn't fit him, though; I'd say it fits exactly.

[DrippingGoofball]

I don't know who to vote for... I don't know... do you know?

21.5 hours...

I won't vote VitaminR even if that means no lynch. That how strongly I believe VitaminR's claim.

What to do, what to do?

I think I'll have to vote for Fiasco on account of being on the Commodore's list of unconfirmed, and having no claim to exculpate him. Sad but true.

~sigh~

vote: Fiasco

[mikeburnfire]

Fiasco, I just naturally jumped to the conclusion that they were innocent. I've only had a masonscum in one of the games I've been in, so I didn't think it was that common. I hardly consider myself to be a part of Nativity Mafia, since the only thing I did was replace in, claim mason, then let the town duke it out. You say that Seol mentioned the issue as a direct question to CES, who answered that, yes, they were guaranteed innocent. This is what caused me to go back through my role and verify. I didn't feel like doing it at the time, but it was an important issue that I had to check in due time.

We didn't share role names last night because it's not all that important. We shared restrictions and told each other how to verify each other with hidden messages from previous speeches. I typed my role into Wiki. I got nothing. I typed it into Google. I got nothing. DG, you wish to know my role to confirm me, but even if you did have my role I don't think you would be able to confirm me as I am not listed anywhere. I don't know why Cogito wants me to keep my role to myself, but I trust his judgment. However, if a majority of the town wants me to reveal my role, then I shall do it and then we shall endure the consequences together with only yourselves to blame.

I really wish you would stop bringing up the 'Jesus as a cat' shtick. It was meerly a way for me to post my restriction inside random babble... something I have been doing nearly all game. I added JesusCat for fun. You bring up the quote I said... "I don't recall telling you not to attempt to decypher my messages."... Do not take it out of its context. I said this because somebody had said earlier "Mike doesn't want us to decyper his code", which was wrong. I don't believe I ever said anything of the sort. It was just a bunch of babble to hide my restriction. The Jesus-Cat thing was meerly a joke. You can let it go now.

You say that if we aren't scum, that we've been horribly sloppy". I'm sorry you feel that way, but you would be wrong. I feel we are defending ourselves pretty well for Satanists in a game where such a role would instantly be killed or pegged as a cult. Besides, this is the first time I've been a mason (second if you want to get technical, but Nativity Mafia still doesn't count).

DG, since you are so thirsty for a rolename I'll give you a hint. I hid my restriction three sentences ago. If you found my restriction, you would know a little bit more about my role. Not a lot, but a little bit.

Finally, I encourage an unvote of VitaminR for now.

[SpamWise]

On superficial inspection, the masonry's defence amounts to little more than WIFOM. Especially some of the more important points that CES has said, such as the "if we were killers we would have thought of name-claims long ago." And I am also confused by MBF's "he killers can't keep us alive."Of course they can, for the moment at least. If they do keep youalive, by the time your powerbecomes effective, it may already be too late for the town anyway. Of course, if we lynch either of you, we diminish that power, assuming what you have claimed is true.

The problem that has put to town in, is that if they aren't killers, and assuming all other factors remain constant; we have no way of proving their innocence unless one of them dies.And the longer they stay alive, the more suspicion that is cast upon them. On the other side, if they are truly masons, the stronger their power goes.

I doubt either of them are killers, as no-one as come forth to counter-claim them. I don't think that the moves they've made have been "stupid", but neither are they brilliant. And I agree with the notion that claiming names now would make no difference as to whether or not they are innocenct. As we've seen so far, all of us have been notorious for commiting some act of evil, or at least demonstrating the capabilityto do so. What is of more concern to me is how outing their names would be detrimental to the interest of the town.

What I think it comes down to is whether or not the town is patient enough to see whether or not their claims are true, or at least a scenraio arises that greatly adds validity to their claims. The town has already stated that it's patient enough to wait for Fritzler and Seol, however they have claimed differently to what The Masons are.

The way I see it, bylynching one of them in the near future, we diminish their power for the end game, but we confirm someone for the moment. I think this is a dangerous move for the town, I'm of the opinion that we should wait, and assume that the killers will kill them if their claims are true, but they will stay alive if they are lying.

Of course, the killers would be likely to manipulate this by deliberately choosing not to kill either of them. But whether or not they are willing to risk the potential power the masons claim to have, or end up with later in the game, is a question that can only be answered by one of those two.

And I'm not quite sure what to hink of DGB's name-fishing. We have no way of confirming her innocene, only that we have made the assumption that Ingersoll is on our side. However, I'm not sure how many people would've believed Malcolm X to be on our side, yet were surprised when it was revealed that he was.

I'm not going to trust DGB for the moment, just as I am not going to trust anyone. But I have no evidence that Ingersoll is scum, only that if we are all typically "evil" characters here, than perhaps those who are out to kill us are those of a morally "good"nature.

And it's been stated before that several players have invented fake restrictions to hide the real one. I believe that is what MBF has done, but I'm not sure whether that increases the likelihod of him being either pro-town or a killer.

Hmm hmm hmm, hmm hmm hmm.

[Commodore Amazing]

Grah; I missed another day?

All right, I think I can sum up my feelings as "I'm with the silent speaker. Argh, indeed." Are we going to be stuck on no lynch today? It doesn't look like we have any good candidate anymore, since half the block can be confirmed, and the other half is on the list. Don't we need a lynch for Fritzler to get confirmed?

Any proposals? Seol should probably use his ability tonight, and then we can consider lynching him then. You could lynch me too, I guess, if we think that's better than not lynching anyone. I'd rather not be lynched. Maybe it's a good idea to confirm my list and have Seol use his ability at the same time.

I don't know what to make of the masons. Is anyone else distrubed by Perry Mason and the fact that there are masons? Are we allowed to quote our role names? I.e., Lee was "the controversial pope."

[mikeburnfire]

Spamwise, you misunderstand me. I did not 'invent a fake restriction to hide the real one'. I just listed a bunch of randomness to hide my restriction in most of my posts. The JesusCat fiasco was just a simple and obvious joke to make fun of the whole ordeal. It has no real meaning. You'd know that if you went to go find my real restriction. It shouldn't be too hard now.

Seventeen Juggling Ugly Gorillas Jumped on Granny's Corpse.

[Tamuz]

I suppose my strongest point for voting VitaminR is gone, with it countered... my vote really douesn't have a leg to stand on. Thats like trying to fish in the ocean without a boat.

unvote: VitaminR

The masons situationmakes me think the only benefit to learning their names is to see if it checks out in the case they die. Don't see that happening, because I doubt they would lie about their name. So I agree it is good information to know, but probably not the most vital information to learn about, yeh?

[SpamWise]

You still came up with a way of hiding your real restriction. Which is what I meant. Not so much hiding it I suppose, but distracting everyone from your real restriction. That's what you were doing, which in a way is hiding your restriction.

The only other thing I have to say is that I shall go back a few steps, and vote for Fiasco.

Vote:Fiasco

[petroleumjelly]

PetroleumJelly takes a sip of Fresca. Mr. Grey immediately approaches her and snatches it away, mumbling something about how people find the time to find vending machines on a deserted island. PJ rolls her eyes as she takes out another Fresca and surreptitiously sips at it while nobody is watching.

"Well, my position hasn't really changed much. I still haven't seen much of a reason to move my vote away from Werebear yet, and I am seeing many reasons to not vote for some specific people due to slight confirmability (Fritzler, Seol, Pooky, VitaminR, and Commodore Amazing). I can't really remember who was on Commodore's 'good hanging' list at this point, I might have to refer to that in order to give myself some sort of direction.

"Commodore Amazing, love, you failed in your posting restrictions! You do realize it becomes harder and harder to have the chance to confirm you when your ability must necessarily be deprived of you by Mr. Grey for such things?"

[DrippingGoofball]

I don't know... sigh... oh! So I don't know! Don't ask what I know.

Fritzler has a problem in that his powers might not work today, on account of failing his requirements. We cannot count on being able to clear him.

I emphatically disagree with Spamwise's statement, that is "those who are out to kill us are those of a morally "good"nature." Looking by the proportion of murderers and non-murderers among our deceased should quickly put that argument to rest.

I'd rather the Satanists give us their names rather than have us lynch them to find out, or give them another night to make things up. Remember; this is a no-reveal game, so that if we lynch them, we still won't know.

I don't believe MBF's claim that his character is so obscure as to be un-googlable.

I am not buying it. The Freudian slip, the reluctance to come forward with a name, the "omission" of the Masons in discussing their identities... and now, a name that cannot be looked up?

Are we supposed to believe this?

Are we supposed to believe that there is a Mr. Anonymous Satanist in our coterie of famously verbose historical figures?

Are we supposed to believe that MBF trust Cogito's judgement to this extent? Is Cogito some supremo cult leader?

Check out the contradiction. MBF is a nobody, his name will yield no information, YET if he reveals his name "we shall endure the consequences together with only yourselves to blame."

Does this make sense at all?

I looked at the sentence "You say that if we aren't scum, that we've been horribly sloppy," as MBF suggested, and can't find a restriction there.

Cogito wrote: "People don't claim satanist masons without having any idea of what person/character to claim."

Could it be exactly what happened?

Guess what, I don't know!

[Fiasco]

Worse and worse and worse.

MikeBurnFire, you said earlier that you had multiple post restrictions. Now it seems you're saying you have only one post restriction, and it's the "double-g" restriction that I think everyone figured out ages ago. Which is it? Were you lying, or what? Having a double-g word in each post isn't similar at all to having your starting letters be "SATAN", so unless you were using "my restriction" to refer to a completely different restriction when you said that your restriction was similar to CES's, I can't interpret that as anything else than a lie.

The double-g restriction is interesting in itself. LML had a double-p restriction, and he was a pope. The double-g restriction may point to identities such as Genghis Khan, or Gorgias, the "father of sophistry".

Also, are you saying that when Seol asked about confirmed innocence, you went back to check? That's what you seem to be saying, but in that case, why were you still confused several real-time "days" later about CES not being scum "to your knowledge"?

Cogito Ergo Sum, I think I may have noticed a restriction in your posts other than the one about Satan. Referring to Thok's faking, you said it was "strange", so I doubt that, if you're pro-town, you've been faking a restriction yourself. Are you willing to go on record as saying that you have only one post restriction? You did call your restriction "my restriction", which would imply that you have only one.

I'm also interested in the friction between your claim that your role is one that you "might have chosen", like Descartes or Moliere, and your claim that your role is not famous, and MikeBurnFire's claim that

his

role name

doesn't even get any Google hits

. (Seriously, what character doesn't even have any Google hits nowadays? By the way, everyone, please stop referring to Wikipedia as "wiki" or "the wiki".)

I'm also interested in why you said: "Once I do come forward, I think you'll understand why I'm not coming forward". Earlier you seemed to be implying that you just wanted to be careful about giving out information, rather than having any

specific

reason for coming forward. And MikeBurnFire doesn't understand why you don't want to come forward, so apparently it's not obvious from the role flavor alone, and requires an explanation from you (that you won't be able to give if nightkilled, and that you didn't bother to tell MBF last night).

I'm not going to "just trust you" -- this is Mafia, remember? I don't see how, in a no reveals game, it will be obvious that you're masons once one of you dies. Maybe you're connected, but that's also possible for cultists.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Yes, I have but the one restriction.

Anyway, as neither of us are on the lynching block, I don't feel the slightest necessity to name-claim. Due to the pressure exerted on us, I think it might be necessary to name-claim tomorrow. Certainly not today though.

The claim should explain the statements Mike and I have previously made, so I don't think you should have to worry about the two of us coming up with names during the night. Either we're scum who've planned this, scum that'll get lynched as soon as we claim(in which case there's no reason to claim today instead of tomorrow) or town that have a valid reason.

And Fiasco, I had a specific reason all along. But by admitting to having a specific reason, I would needlessly be giving away role info.

The situation is all a bit more complicated than you may think. I'll probably clarify it Tomorrow. You're going to have to trust me until then anyway.

Let's focus on what's important now.

[Mr. Grey]

Vote Count:

8 to lynch.

VitaminR: 3 (Fritzler, PookyTheMagicalBear, the silent speaker)
Fiasco: 2 (DrippingGoofball, SpamWise)
Werebear: 2 (mikeburnfire, petroleumjelly)
Seol: 1 (Commodore Amazing)

Players Nominated: Commodore Amazing, DrippingGoofball, Fiasco, Fritzler, petroleumjelly, Seol, Tamuz, Thok, VitaminR, Werebear

Mod Note:

Deadline for Day is in approximately 6 hours.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Considering that the only way to actually verify VitaminR's ability is to get him killed via nominations and we don't really have a candidate to replace him on the lynching platform today, wouldn't it be fairly wise to follow through with his lynch?

I can't see how rushing through on another candidate or nolynching could be better at this point than lynching him.

I'm also very interested to see where this line of inquiry with the masons will go. I can't for the life of me think of a reason why they would withhold name information today yet be ok with giving it tommorrow except to iron out any details that might go wrong overnight. I hope their explanation for their reticence will be quite good.

[Fritzler]

Guys, I mihgt not be on later, so I have to confirm my ability now. I will proceed to commit seppuku. Like pooky always says i haven't really contributed, so that doesn't matter. You've said that, right pooky?
Anyways, I will now commit Seppuku: "Σωκράτης".
I am now confirmed, and I will see you guys tomorrow.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Pooky, I'd rather not have to come forward with the info at all. There's no significant difference between Today and Tomorrow, but I do prefer Tomorrow. I do believe the claim should dispel any doubts you may have.

I mourn the loss of Sokrates. We have lost a great thinker. A great sadness fills my heart.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I meant my contribution comments in the sense that you should contribute more. Not randomly kill yourself....

Socrates was well known for giving eloquent speeches, not for randomly killing himself to "confirm" himself.

Fritzler, could you give more details on what this whole killing yourself thing means?

Sometimes Fritzler you can make me so fustrated.

[Mr. Grey]

"I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing."

With that, the wearer of the "Fritzler" mask produces a cup of hemlock from some hidden place and drinks it.

"The hour of departure has arrived, and we go our ways -- I to die and you to live. Which is the better, only God knows."

Near the path, the group notices for the first time that a tree has fallen, not by natural means, but cleanly cut as if by a lumberjack. Fritzler stumbles toward it, and as he breathes his last, falls symbolicly on the tree stump.

****

Fritzler (Σωκράτης, the Tree Stump!) is dead.

14 guests remaining.

****

The unnamed guide hands the stunned and confused guests a book.

"Socrates, goodbye... why did you leave us? Fear not, though. His words live on in the writings of Plato. Perhaps he will be able to speak to you still."

[Mr. Grey]

Vote Count:

8 to lynch.

Fiasco: 2 (DrippingGoofball, SpamWise)
VitaminR: 2 (PookyTheMagicalBear, the silent speaker)
Werebear: 2 (mikeburnfire, petroleumjelly)
Seol: 1 (Commodore Amazing)

Players Nominated: Commodore Amazing, DrippingGoofball, Fiasco, petroleumjelly, Seol, Tamuz, Thok, VitaminR, Werebear

Mod Note:

Deadline for Day is in approximately 4.5 hours.

[petroleumjelly]

"Well, that was something completely different." PetroleumJelly gives a salute to the Fritzler stump. "I wonder if we'll ever hear his voice again..." she comments.

"In any case, I may as well take a turn to those people here who are not on Commodore Amazings' 'bad hanging' list, however much I have said I don't like relying on others' lists (and still don't). Those people are Commodore Amazing, DrippingGoofBall, Fiasco, Pooky, Seol, VitaminR, and Werebear. Of those, Pooky and Seol seem to be getting another night on the town. Commodore Amazing seems out of the question, and DrippingGoofBall likely isn't the best of directions. That rather leaves Fiasco, VitaminR (who has already claimed), and Werebear.

"I have a feeling we are going to end up no-lynching today, which is disappointing to say the least. I'll change my vote to Fiasco since I will not be able to speak for the remainder of today, and see what the town chooses to do.

"Although I am beginning to question some people's integrity. DrippingGoofBall, my dear, you yourself have shown that you are quite dedicated to Commodore Amazing's list, and its accuracy. You have also stated that without question, LoudmouthLee was evil, and hence was the

one

good hanging from the original list. Seeing as

both

CES and MikeBurnFire were on the 'bad hanging' list, I do not see why you find it so necessary to pursue them. You cannot have perfect trust in Commodore Amazing's bad hanging list

and

doubt those that are on the list."

Unvote: Werebear, Vote: Fiasco

.

[Commodore Amazing]

Hm, deadlines in about two hours. I hardly even have the time to check in now, but I'd like to at least vote.

I don't know if we're lynching anyone or not, but I don't want us to miss out on a lynch because of a deadline. I'm throwing my vote down. I don't really know if he's a good lynch, on my list, claimed, or what not. Consider this a proxy vote. You can all decide if he's worth a lynch.

vote: Fiasco

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I still very much believe a VitaminR lynch would make more sense at this point than running someone up so close to the deadline based on so little and without a chance for a proper defense. However seeing as how that's now fairly unlikely to happen, I will aquiesce to the wishes of the plurality and place my vote on Fiasco.

Where shall we lay our picnic blanket tonight my love?
Let us dine beneath the cool shade of the sycamore tree upon the fruits of our love.
Baked bananas, succulent mango, sweet cantaloupe, juicy honeydew, creamy avocado fill our mouths.
None could be as sweet as our love as we dance across the twilight sky.

unvote

vote Fiasco

[the silent speaker]

I am very angry at Commodore Amazing. No, I am incensed. He has not responded to a single one of my questions regarding his lists. His continuing silence makes it exceedingly difficult to work out what information he is providing with them.

Meanwhile the sun is setting. If we are letting VitaminR slide for the nonce -- and it looks like we are, though I still find his claim terribly, terribly suspect -- then of the remaining choices, Fiasco is the least bad. And he's the only one with even as much of a chance as the proverbial hell-bound snowball of getting lynched.

Petroleumjelly, technically mikeburnfire is not on the list, though obviously you're right that Lee and Cogito can't both be scum

and

have Commodore Amazing's list be absolutely accurate. But to me that indicates that Cogito's guilt would imply Lee's innocence, and by extension Seol would look worse for insisting on Lee's guilt. (I actually considered ordering Seol to investigate a mason for that reason, but decided that the balance of probability is that they

are

innocent masons and Seol would therefore give an answer that means nothing for the town.)

Unvote. Vote: Fiasco.