Mini 291: Clue Mafia.....Game Over!

[Tamuz]

I'm starting to be concerned by Flay's attitude towards anyone who agrees with him. He has at least twice immediately turn on another who has the same thought process of him. I'm not really sure how this would work towards scummyness of Flay, because it is more an anti-scum buddy system rather than a scum buddy system manuever and alienates him from the town... but it still concerns me greatly.

BJ... who aren't you sure is scum? I'm really tempted to go along with the Not Helpful idea and my residual feeling from Day 1 is biding me to as well, but I'm not convinced to lynch BJ yet today. He is not helpful, but I haven't seen a reaon that he is especially scum (slightly against my previous day's statement, but day one is much more conjecture and I played it thusly.

[BabyJesus]

I agree it is very unlike BabyJesus to forget to make a night choice. Also to forget to check in around deadline and help us lynch someone. He just let his vote sit.

vote babyjesus

trying for the easy lynch, huh? pretty sure elvis is scum here.

Just because I put one vote on you? That seems like scum overreaction to me.

Oh please.

vote elvisknits

[BabyJesus]

And knowing BJ, it does seem odd that he would not vote.

vote: BabyJesus

feel free to lynch me and find out. Just a townie here, hence I totally forgot I had to send in a room choice....

[kops]

Did you just claim vanilla BJ?

[Mr. Flay]

I'm starting to be concerned by Flay's attitude towards anyone who agrees with him. He has at least twice immediately turn on another who has the same thought process of him. I'm not really sure how this would work towards scummyness of Flay, because it is more an anti-scum buddy system rather than a scum buddy system manuever and alienates him from the town... but it still concerns me greatly.

Eh? Anyone who's ever been in a game with me as scum knows that I'll sell my partner down the river at the slightest provocation. I try to play the Day as if I was town, on someone's good advice back when I started (forget who right now - 'cam?). I'm "turning on" people (which is different from turning people on, I suspect) because I'm finding their reasons for following my logic less than convincing. Scum are the least likely to put their own ideas forward, IMO, as they can get called on them later when disproven. Jumping on someone else's thought train/bandwagon is safer, because it provides plausible deniability ("don't look at me, it was X's idea! lynch them!").

Happy with a lynch on either elvis or BJ today, though since it looks like BJ just claimed powerlessness, that may be the 'safer' lynch. bamboomancer's still giving me hives, but... where is everybody?

[BabyJesus]

Did you just claim vanilla BJ?

yes...thought it was pretty obvious when I forgot to send in a night choice.

If we're doing "safe" lynches of townies, feel free to vote me...

[kops]

Good point... that was kinda a stupid question...

[Fuldu]

Good point... that was kinda a stupid question...

Not really. All he claimed was that he forgot to submit a room choice. If someone with a role choice forgot about the room mechanic and just didn't include it, the same thing could have happened. And for that matter, scum who weren't the one submitting the group's night choice could have done exactly the same thing as a vanilla townie.

I don't trust BJ's "Well, I guess I claimed vanilla townie out of nowhere" approach to talking about his room choice. There was no reason for him to claim at this stage. And if there was no reason to claim, there was no reason for him to talk about missing a room choice with the expectation that it was going to result in his claim. It looks like a gambit to me. So, secure in the knowledge that BJ's next post will be to the effect of "Hey, it looks like I caught me some scum,"

vote: Baby Jesus

[BabyJesus]

pretty sure Fuldu is scum here....

[Mr. Flay]

I'm willing to call his bluff.

Unvote, Vote: BabyJesus

(...waits to join the list of found scum...)

[Mr. Flay]

Note that is four out of five needed (forgot how small this game was for a second). If someone drops the hammer right now and he happens to turn up town, there's gonna be questions need answering...

[BabyJesus]

Note that is four out of five needed (forgot how small this game was for a second). If someone drops the hammer right now and he happens to turn up town, there's gonna be questions need answering...

you're not very good at hunting scum, are you?

[kops]

well, before we even consider putting on the lynch vote, we need to make sure there isn't anything we need to talk about regarding rooms...
Most importantly I think, do we want anyone in specific to go with Flay tonight?

Possibly

have him announce his room and have the doc go there (w/o saying who they are obviously). In fact, I think that might work best b/c assuming the mafia need to submit a room to kill in (which I think is a fair assumption)... even if the doc does die, we catch a scum. I'm guessing the scum wouldn't want that to happen, which leaves 7 rooms for 4 townies to hide in, which is slightly better than 8 rooms for 6 of us (assuming there are 3 scum.. although in a game this size I suppose 2 is a possibility...)

I also thought about a couple more people going w/ Flay but I think there must be some counter-measure against all-in-one-rooming so the doc probably gets less powerful when there's more people in the room, or something like that... so I think it best to limit it at most at 3.

Any thoughts from anyone else?

[BabyJesus]

Any thoughts from anyone else?

you COULD try and lynch scum today instead of killing the obvious townie...

[bigAl]

Most importantly I think, do we want anyone in specific to go with Flay tonight?

Possibly

have him announce his room and have the doc go there (w/o saying who they are obviously). In fact, I think that might work best b/c assuming the mafia need to submit a room to kill in (which I think is a fair assumption)... even if the doc does die, we catch a scum. I'm guessing the scum wouldn't want that to happen, which leaves 7 rooms for 4 townies to hide in, which is slightly better than 8 rooms for 6 of us (assuming there are 3 scum.. although in a game this size I suppose 2 is a possibility...)

Good idea. It would be good to confirm Flay's ability if possible. Though if the doc's role says that he can protect people outside the room, maybe he shouldn't go to that room if it would perhaps put him at risk?

[Tamuz]

I'm willing to call his bluff.

Unvote, Vote: BabyJesus

(...waits to join the list of found scum...)

obv. scum

[elvis_knits]

Any thoughts from anyone else?

you COULD try and lynch scum today instead of killing the obvious townie...

You are one from lynch. Try claiming your name.

[kops]

I was actually going to request that he claimed in my previous post but I decided against it b/c it will do absolutely nothing for us as far as I can see (unless we catch him under LaL but that won't happen b/c he has nothing to hide...)

[Fuldu]

How does kops plan allow us to confirm Flay without revealing the doc? What does Flay say tomorrow? "Yes, I saw someone take an action last night, but I'm not going to say who because they're probably the doctor. But now you believe my claim, right?"

I think having Flay indicate which room he visited the preceding night and whether or not he saw someone take an action is the best way to start. Then, if someone with an action was in the room, they'll be in a position to contradict him, where appropriate. It'll take longer and we'll run the risk of having him in a room with no one with a night choice, but it also increases the likelihood that he sees scum do something. Eventually we'll be able to confirm him or decide that there's insufficient evidence to back his claim. But he's far more useful to us if everything isn't planned out than if we (and scum) know exactly where he's going to be and how to avoid him.

[kops]

How does kops plan allow us to confirm Flay without revealing the doc? What does Flay say tomorrow? "Yes, I saw someone take an action last night, but I'm not going to say who because they're probably the doctor. But now you believe my claim, right?"

I think having Flay indicate which room he visited the preceding night and whether or not he saw someone take an action is the best way to start. Then, if someone with an action was in the room, they'll be in a position to contradict him, where appropriate. It'll take longer and we'll run the risk of having him in a room with no one with a night choice, but it also increases the likelihood that he sees scum do something. Eventually we'll be able to confirm him or decide that there's insufficient evidence to back his claim. But he's far more useful to us if everything isn't planned out than if we (and scum) know exactly where he's going to be and how to avoid him.

That is a good point, Fuldu, but I think it boils down to the pros and cons of each course of action.
If Flay reveals his room choice:
pros: 1)I'm guessing the doc has to know which room he's sending his protect to even if he isn't there himself so Flay will live.
2) We can probably protect at least 1-2 other townies by having them go to the same room as Flay... although that would be difficult to organize unless there's somebody we want to send specifically (and giving him a chance to clear himself which is definately good).
3) Scum have a lower chance of finding

other

townies b/c there's a lower townie:available room ratio

Cons: 1) scum know where to go to avoid being caught...

Unless I'm missing some cons here, it seems to me the pros outweigh the con(s?). Well I think it's at least something we need to decide before anyone is lynched, BJ or otherwise.

[BabyJesus]

Any thoughts from anyone else?

you COULD try and lynch scum today instead of killing the obvious townie...

You are one from lynch. Try claiming your name.

does it matter? Miss Peach if you must know.

[Fuldu]

That is a good point, Fuldu, but I think it boils down to the pros and cons of each course of action.
If Flay reveals his room choice:
pros: 1)I'm guessing the doc has to know which room he's sending his protect to even if he isn't there himself so Flay will live.
2) We can probably protect at least 1-2 other townies by having them go to the same room as Flay... although that would be difficult to organize unless there's somebody we want to send specifically (and giving him a chance to clear himself which is definately good).
3) Scum have a lower chance of finding

other

townies b/c there's a lower townie:available room ratio

Cons: 1) scum know where to go to avoid being caught...

Unless I'm missing some cons here, it seems to me the pros outweigh the con(s?). Well I think it's at least something we need to decide before anyone is lynched, BJ or otherwise.

Well, kops, you're making a lot of assumptions about the doc mechanic in this game.

[kops]

True, I might be... but I think it's fairly reasonable to assume same-room protect based on our apparent cop mechanic (and I doubt Flay would have just randomly picked that method of investigation if he does turn out to be lying... he must have had some basis due to how the scum kill, although I do highly doubt he's lying anyway doubt)
But anyway, even if the doc sends a name to protect... Flay still lives, so unless you see another possible doc mechanic, I don't see why it matters.

[Mr. Flay]

Any thoughts from anyone else?

you COULD try and lynch scum today instead of killing the obvious townie...

You could try and give us a reason not to vote you today.

Why didn't you vote elvis earlier when you thought she was scum? Why weren't you paying enough attention to the mechanics of the game? What basis have you had for the people you DO think are scum, so if/when you come up town/scum we can evaluate them based on something more than your voting history, which is fairly scattershot in any game.

As for the room thing, I announced it yesterday and didn't die. But of course that doesn't mean anything, but I *did* allude to having a power role, and that means either scum went somewhere else despite that, or they failed to kill me, or they failed to kill altogether due to some unknown mechanic.

I can see scum totally avoiding the room/rooms I say I might be in if they think that'll avoid them being caught, but there's a possible benefit as well. What if I said I'll be in a room ending in y? Do we think that might balance the odds, or just dilute my benefit and give scum a definite out?

Finally I'm not really a cop, more of a Lassie.

[Fuldu]

True, I might be... but I think it's fairly reasonable to assume same-room protect based on our apparent cop mechanic (and I doubt Flay would have just randomly picked that method of investigation if he does turn out to be lying... he must have had some basis due to how the scum kill, although I do highly doubt he's lying anyway doubt)
But anyway, even if the doc sends a name to protect... Flay still lives, so unless you see another possible doc mechanic, I don't see why it matters.

Games aren't won by having the doc successfully protect a non-cop investigative role so that he can get indeterminate results on most everyone. Games are won by having the non-cop investigative role find scum. Flay can't even confirm an innocent unless they're a power role, and confirming them requires outing them. And eventually he's going to run out of power roles to confirm without having found any scum, while in the meantime either he or they are picked off by scum. That's not a useful long-term strategy, and I don't even really see it as a useful short-term strategy.