Brightest Day Mafia, Part 1 - GAME OVER

[Andrius]

YOU asked ME to NAMECLAIM.
So I DID.
Why are you giving me crap for doing WHAT YOU ASKED?

[Kdub]

@Kdub:

The plan is:

Toasty jailkeeps Kast
vezokpiraka delays Kast
Andrius roleblocks Mr Subliminal
Oversoul tracks whomever the fuck he wants
Blackberry investigates whomever the fuck he wants
Nikanor, MuffinMan, hiplop do whatever the fuck they want
Someone gives us a ring

What if we lynch Ludi and he actually is the recruiter as you think he is? What is then plan then? When I first saw this post, my thought was that you already knew that Ludi was going to flip non-CR and setting up actions based on that. After thinking about it, I've backed off from that sentiment since I could see town only planning for worst-case scenarios (still bad, but plausible), but it still makes my gut churn a bit. In any case, the real issue is that any plan we come up with needs to account for all possibilities, including whether the player we lynch actually does flip CR or not.

Ninja'd: Eh probably like 60-40? It all depends if the recruiter/mafia got fake claims, I guess. I highly doubt ANY of my WL buds are CR <3

60-40? If that's true, then we have an even bigger problem. That is nowhere near as "sure" as I thought you guys were about being confirmed, and the WL thing was pretty much the only reason I focused on Ludi/Kast/Toast. Do the other WLs want to comment on this? Of the WLs, Nikanor is confirmed non-CR by Toasty's action. Is there any non-WL reason for Mr. S, hiplop, and zMuffin to be cleared from being the recruiter?

[Mr Subliminal]

What if we lynch Ludi and he actually is the recruiter as you think he is?

Then the plan can b e ignored and people can fuck with whoever they think mafia is. Honestly, if Ludi is the CR, then I think the game is just sewn up.

Is there any non-WL reason for Mr. S, hiplop, and zMuffin to be cleared from being the recruiter?

Yes, because their play has been fucking town.

Same fucking reason we clear Blackberry and Oversoul and I don't see any people bitching about those.

[zMuffinMan]

I still believe Ludi is CR and his recent actions have done nothing to change my mind.

The biggest reason I suspect Ludi is simple PoE, which is the same reason he's down to his own "suspect list", but he refuses to acknowledge there's any reason to suspect him.

Every time I've brought up anything against him, he's claimed that I've done something I haven't actually done. For example, when I started arguing with him, he claimed that I was calling him a recruit (I wasn't) and that I was calling him scum (which I was, because I use the word scum to collectively refer to anything anti-town - cult, mafia, SK, etc, so this is kind of irrelevant). When I brought up the topic of why his NPIAU protect was weird, he tried to discredit me by claiming I also thought NPIAU was town (I didn't). And now he's claiming that subliminal (and hiplop) are hiding behind a claim to protect themselves when... derpity-derp, he's claiming he

must

be town because a JoaT fake-claim included "doc" and he's the only claimed Blue Lantern.

He keeps insisting there's no case against him, but there's just as much of a case against any of the claimed WLs (bar

Captain Derp

hiplop, who's the easiest target to go after).

Looking at his 6 reasons in #2616,

1.

Toog's fakeclaim included Doctor. If you think I am fakeclaiming, you would have to consider that dana put into the game two fakeclaims that would counter claim each other. More logical is the fact that I am actually a doctor.

Toog fake-claimed my role, albeit with different abilities. This means nothing, and I'm not going to pretend this proves anything about my own alignment.

2.

If you believe Saint Walker is not in the game, that would mean that there are entirely no blue lanterns initially in the game.

Yes.

3.

Doctor is a traceable role, and easily found out lying based on the already flipped information roles

So is just about any other fake-claim a CR could be given?

4.

This could be potentially the last day town has majority.

. . . . .

I think he was trying to suggest that his original role, doctor, necessarily fits into the game because at a certain point in time, the mafia

and cult

may outnumber town?

5.

This wagon on me is exceedingly lazy

All of the wagons today are based on PoE. The wagon on you is for a few main reasons:

1) Ruling out people who are currently "verified" by at least one other person <- based on NPIAU most likely being a N1 recruit.
2) From the remaining players, ruling out people who I'm simply not reading as CR (e.g. hiplop, Blackberry)
3) Given a choice between the remaining players (you, subliminal), the fact that subliminal is less of a threat even if he is CR because he was unable to recruit last night (HINT: THIS COMPLETELY COUNTERS YOUR POINT [4], BECAUSE WE'D CURRENTLY BE LOOKING AT 10:3:1 BY YOUR OWN CALCULATIONS), the fact that he's claimed a WL and is currently actually

trying

, I'm willing to believe he's more likely telling the truth.

6.

Mr. Sub and hiplop both put rather weak votes on me, and are the people detailed as being highest chance of cult recruiter by myself

That's amazing. hiplop aside, Subliminal has pretty clearly been on you for this entire day phase.



--------------------------


To answer a few queries I skimmed through over the last few pages:

@Kdub,

I have no way of confirming any of the claimed WLs are non-CR, and (once again) I've never pretended I could.

However, I'm ruling them out based on early play and things that don't make sense given their early play if they aren't actually CR. I actually have a full claim written up and ready to be posted which explains exactly what I mean.


@Andrius,

I'm not a downgrader. Downgrading is one of my abilities.

And I've probably missed some other stuff....

Does anyone actually have a problem with Subliminal's list of what should be done tonight, other than simply because it came from him?

[Kast]

Toasty jailkeeps Kast
vezokpiraka delays

Kast

Two points regarding this:
1> This is absolutely idiotic. Even if you genuinely believed that Kast might be CR (which is completely ridiculous given our CONFIRMED Track BEFORE Tans or Andy said ANYTHING), there's absolutely no reason to waste two potential town PRs here. Given that Vezokpiraka ALREADY claimed to have delayed Kast on N2, then a JK from Toast should stop any actions ANYWAY. Vezok should follow the previously proposed plan (I think it was Muffin's plan?) and delay someone else, so that Toast can JK that person on N3 and effectively lock down 2 players. IHSIB is a good delay candidate as potential SK. Oversoul is another potential candidate given WLCs mod flavor hint that Aquaman is a Black Lantern (and potentially CR*).

And that's ONLY if you genuinely think that CR BOTH recruited AND tracked on N1. If you don't then Toast AND Vezok shouldn't waste their PRs on a VT and should instead block/delay actual potential scum.

2> Mr.S has inconsistently gone from saying:
Kast is non-CR based on his claim and play >

(Kast claims a breadcrumb to be revealed later)

> Ok Kast isn't CR >

(later he apparently forgets his position)

> Kast hasn't given 100% proof so let's RB him >

(later support for CJ lynch seems to be stalling)

> let's lynch Kast and RB CJ >

(breadcrumb revealed)

> Kast can't be CR let's lynch CJ >

(later he apparently forgets that proof of track equals proof of non-CR)

> Kast should be RBed AND Delayed

The proposed action plan

DOES

look like what Kdub posited; Mr. S

could

be setting up for an expected CJ town-flip. I could potentially buy a paranoid Magua not accepting my track PRIOR to the breadcrumb being revealed (it's still an idiotic position given my brother linked to exactly the post containing the breadcrumb and described exactly what it contained), but to continue pushing that BS after it's been revealed is ridiculous.

That said, CJ is still MUCH more likely CR than Sub given his play and his claim.

*- Did everyone just forget that WLC's last thoughts and message were emphasis of his role PM flavor implicating OS as a Black Lantern? I voted CJ earlier because I wanted to think on OS some more, but it seems like nobody else is even considering that. OS was cleared as CR due to the delay + NPIAU's flip, however, we still don't know how Vezok's delay ability works (or even if Vezok is town...it's entirely possible Vezok is scum and he's lying about either the delay ability or his delay target).

@Vezok-
Please ask mods about your Delay ability:
-What class of actions does the delay ability fit within the NAR list (e.g. is it Blocking, Redirecting, Miscellaneous)?
-If your target uses a standard investigation ability and is

ALSO

targeted by a standard roleblock on the same night, would the target's ability still happen on the following night?
-If your target uses a standard investigation ability and is targeted by a standard roleblock on the following night, would the target's ability still happen on the following night?
-For that matter, does your ability delay explicitly state how long it delays an ability (e.g. one FULL day/night cycle, one PHASE, the NEXT night phase,...etc.)?

One theory I had earlier which I forget was that vezok might be reading his power wrong and perhaps his delay is just for one phase (which would explain Mastin's day death, clear Kdub, and indicate OS is SK or mafia (also would explain why N2 only had 2 apparent kills)). If that's the case, then it would also prevent the Delay/JK double lock.

[Magister Ludi]

That said, CJ is still MUCH more likely CR than Sub given his play and his claim.

huh? What are you talking about?

I think subliminal is CR. We are both at five votes here. We need someone to help switch over.

hiplop, whats your current stance?

[Mr Subliminal]

Has anyone else noticed how important people like Indigo-1 and Hal fucking Jordan are missing? Maybe Saint Walker being a fakeclaim isn't so much of a stretch anymore...

[Magister Ludi]

I thought your whole premise was that Saint Walker was a fakeclaim, and now you're saying that originally you were stretching and reaching and now you're not?

Please die now.

[Andrius]

I thought your whole premise was that Saint Walker was a fakeclaim, and now you're saying that originally you were stretching and reaching and now you're not?

Please die now.

/inb4SubliminalclaimsIndigo-1orHalJordan

[Mr Subliminal]

We were never stretching, I'm just explaining to this DERPALERPALICIOUS town how Saint Walker can easily be a fake claim.

PEDIT: Are either of those WLs? No. Back to your corner.

[Magister Ludi]

Somebody get another vote up on this man.

[Mr Subliminal]

@Nikanor:

Did you miss our WL claim, or do you think it's fake?

[Mr Subliminal]

Also, before I go to bed, take a look at Ludi's ISO and compare it to ours. Ludi focuses on easy targets (hiplop, ToastyToast); when we attack him, he utterly drops his previous reads and switches focus to us. He pushes for our lynch without making any sort of other plans, that is: he's seen our plan but neither commented on it nor presented one of his own, which is doubly damning because the person he suspected before we attacked him -- hiplop -- is given a free pass in our plan ('cause we think it's pretty goddamn obvious that hiplop is neither CR nor mafia).

You think that Ludi would object to this. You think that Ludi would be trying to say, "If Subliminal is lynched and isn't CR, then we need to..." But he doesn't. Cause he doesn't goddamn care.

[Magister Ludi]

huh? How have I focused on easy targets? I focus on who is most likely to be cult recruiter. I outlined you in my post at the beginning of the day here. You've been attacking me for a long time now.

Why do you want me to try and direct how people should use their night actions? That just makes it exceedingly obvious for anti-town factions to play around it. So you think hiplop is not CR? Thats nice. Why are you projecting here?

What would I object to? I'm not some demi-god who's going to try and control town, and I don't think anyone really payed attention to your anti-town plan at all. I think you and hiplop both have had the highest chance of flipping CR. If you don't flip CR (and given the uptick in activity when you got attacked, I'm doubtful), then I'll plan for contingencies. You're trying to scare town with a lot of hot air here, Sub, and it isn't working.

[Kdub]

Honestly, if Ludi is the CR, then I think the game is just sewn up.

The best case scenario I see if we lynch the recruiter at some point is 3 scum left - 2 mafia, 1 cult recruit. That would be out of 11 players, assuming the mafia kill someone at night. I'm guessing mafia have 5 members for balance reasons. That's a decent spot to be in, but hardly "sewn up". Also, didn't you say earlier that you thought a backup recruiter or the cult starting the game with a recruit was likely?

Regardless, I'm revising my list of possible recruiters and not making any definitive assumptions about WLs except that there's a somewhat less likely chance that they are the recruiter. So we have: Ludi, Toasty, Kast, Mr. S, hiplop, Blackberry, zMuffin. Now, somebody tell me if there are any objective reasons (based on claims/actions, etc.) why any of those players

can't

be the recruiter. Saying "they have played like town" is not an objective reason, but I will deal with those judgments after I have eliminated everyone else I possibly can from contention. The WL thing is no longer an objective reason given hiplop's "60-40" statement.

As far as coming up with a plan for tonight, I'm leaning toward completing the mass claim with the caveat that people don't claim whether they are unrecruitable or not. That still keeps the cult in the dark in case we mislynch, it's not like an unrecruitable claim is going to affect how we arrange our night actions anyway.

[vezokpiraka]

I don understand what is happening anymore.

unvote
vote ludi

[tanstalas]

I don understand what is happening anymore.

unvote
vote ludi

Don't lie. Using the word 'anymore' implies you knew what was happening before.

[Andrius]

I don understand what is happening anymore.

unvote
vote ludi

Don't lie. Using the word 'anymore' implies you knew what was happening before.

Yeahhhh somehow I don't think vezok cares/is paying attention.
Apathy FTW.
That was the hammer wasn't it?

[ToastyToast]

if so, I know who I'm targeting. Unless there's a secret vig lurking around here...

[zMuffinMan]

Magister Ludi (6) - zMuffinMan, tanstalas, Kast, hiplop, Mr Subliminal, vezok
Mr Subliminal (5) - Nikanor, ToastyToast, Andrius, Magister Ludi, Oversoul

[zMuffinMan]

(kdub unvoted and Blackberry is still voting hiplop)

[Magister Ludi]

why is vezok voting me? Vezok, are you there? Vote Mr. Sub. Everything points to him being CR

[Magister Ludi]

Where is Blackberry?

[Magister Ludi]

He posted 23 hours ago, heh. oops. We need you in this thread!

[Blackberry]

Yall accuse ME of being dumb, when every single one of you are f#cking idiots voting two of the most confirmed non-CR people in this f#cking game.

*** Mr. Subliminal would not act like a moron (like me) if he was a CR. Skrew's partner would tell Skrew to stfu and not hydra with him if they were CR.

*** I guarantee there is/was a Doctor in this game.

Nikanor, you said everyone that got the PM is confirmed non-CR, YET, you are voting someone that got the PM. I KNOW you are the f#cking cult recruiter. My gut shines big and bright and it says not to trust you. If Nikanor is a BP CR it makes perfect sense to fake-claim a Cop so people say 'He has to be town for that', yet look at him, he's still alive. Yall are morons. MORONS.

And yall thought I was dumb. I guarantee you won't lynch the Cult Recruiter if you kill either Ludi or Mr. S