Brightest Day Mafia, Part 1 - GAME OVER

[Kdub]

OK, trying to figure this out.

From the last few pages, I gather that the White Lanterns are NOT confirmed to be non-recruiter, only that they are unlikely to be the recruiter, correct? Was the basis for that reasoning based on setup speculation, or was it something that the WLs did not want to disclose at this time? Also, the WLs are still potentially recruits and/or mafia, correct?

So let's see if I've got this right:
Kast - possible recruiter
Andrius - not recruiter via tans's N1 action
Magister Ludi - possible recruiter
Blackberry - not recruiter...I forget why?
hiplop - probably not recruiter (WL)
Mr Subliminal - probably not recruiter (WL)
ToastyToast - possible recruiter
vezokpiraka - not recruiter because N1 action was confirmed
tanstalas - not recruiter because N1 action was confirmed
Nikanor - not recruiter via Toasty's N1 action, plus WL
zMuffinMan - probably not recruiter (WL)
Kdub - not recruiter obviously, but objectively nobody has cc'ed my N2 vig
Oversoul - not recruiter via vezok's N1 action

Someone remind me why BB can't be the recruiter again?

Assuming that list is correct, it's down to Kast/Ludi/Toasty. I think it's unlikely to be Kast. For him to claim vanillaized either means he actually was vanillaized (I doubt the recruiter can be vanillaized for balance reasons) or that his faction was responsible for the vanillaizing (I don't see cult having this power in addition to recruitment).

Ludi's color changing claim is weird, and his doctor claim is unverifiable. I have no flavor knowledge outside of what I gathered from BNM and this game so far. What do some of the flavor experts think about his claim? If Ludi is the recruiter, Nikanor or Andy look like possible recruits.

Toasty's jailkeeper claim, though non-standard, was verified by Oversoul, correct? If so, doesn't that mean the only way Toasty can be the recruiter is if Oversoul is a recruit?

POE suggests Ludi is the best bet for CR. If we lynch him and he is not the CR, then we need Toasty and Kast to be blocked/delayed/whatever tonight, and it would probably be a good idea for the mafia to kill one of them for their sake as well as ours. If Ludi is the CR, we should figure out actions to try to confirm people as non-mafia.

If one of the claimed WLs is actually the recruiter, well we can blame a loss on them for being stupid and leading us to believe otherwise.

VOTE: Magister Ludi

I'll be back later tonight.

[hiplop]

Ludi, I was on a semi v/la and on the return home/school trip I disappeared for 24ish hours. Your case about that sucks ._. Hes scurrying and its obvious. There really isnt anyne who could flip CR except you, it was between you and BB, then the whole WLC possibility STILL INCLUDES YOU. If you're town, we learn a LOT from your death and can check for lies, but before that we are going for you.

[ToastyToast]

@Kdub: Being a claimed white lantern does not make them any less possible of a cult leader.
Also, using my actions to make someone not a cult recruiter while suggesting that I am a cult recruiter....Does. Not. Compute.

[ToastyToast]

Also,, wtf I never claimed orange I'm star sapphire. I'm part of the pseudo OLC, which consists of me, tans, and andrius (we all have blocking powers of sorts)

[ToastyToast]

Unvote. Vote: Mr Subliminal.

If Sublim isn't the recruiter, Toasty can JK Ludi tonight.
Looking at nopoint's flip, I'm thinking that recruits are vanillized. Therefore even if the cult recruited Andy or tans, they wouldn't have a roleblock.

But nopoint still seems to have died via suicide, which means not completely vanillized. Also, I agree with this plan.

Vote: Subliminal

His trying to take over the night actions is troubling and distracting with regards to finding the CR. He's part of the fake scenario that all WLC are confirmed town. He and other players are both consistently leaving him out as a possible recruiter. The rest of the reasons have already been said.

[Kast]

Kast2 here.

Kdub: I can only be CR if you believe CR recruit & Track, OR you believe Tans and Nopoint were both recruited N1.

Flavor perspective, Ludi's claim makes sense, but I agree with some of the points BB/Muffin/Toast brought up; with 5+ roleblock abilities, 2+ BP abilities, and 5+ investigative abilities claimed, there is both sufficient blocking/protection, and sufficient redundancy in roles that a traditional doctor is not necessary.

Want to point out something else: I think Andy said he would create a CR + JK role if he did setup, but we know there is a Anti Cult Doctor, so CR *cannot* be a JK, thus Toasty can't be CR,

if

Toasty is JK. I also strongly doubt that Mod would give Toasty a JK false claim if Toasty didn't have some way to actually JK.

BB is almost certainly not CR due to claiming Mafia Cop.

Not seeing the hiplop as CR argument form Ludi; feels like misdirection/flailing to me.

I'm fairly sure Muffin has always been openly vague about WL as non CR, whereas Nik, Hiplop, and Friend were blatantly insistent early game that WL cannot possible by CR. I've been operating on the assumption since mid D2 that Muffin's implication is the most feasible.

Agree that if any WL is CR, it is most likely Mr. S, who still hasn't claimed or explained his WL claim to any other than WLs.

Pedit: "But nopoint still seems to have died via suicide, which means not completely vanillized." Obviously so. If you were a mason lover and your partner suddenly *stopped* being a mason lover, you'd know he was recruited. I doubt any form of vanillizing would have ended mason-lover status. That's more like a pseudo affiliation than a power/ability.

[Mr Subliminal]

Vote: Subliminal

His trying to take over the night actions is troubling and distracting with regards to finding the CR.

Because Lord knows, what this town needs is less direction. It's just running too well, and is sharp and focused and certainly isn't wallowing around at all.

<_<
>_>

[ToastyToast]

ess direction. It's just running too well, and is sharp and focused and certainly isn't wallowing around at all.

I agree, because we shouldn't be allowing someone in the top 3 "Most Likely to Be Cult Recruiter" direct the town.
But yeah, if you're all about organization then why haven't you claimed yet?

[Andrius]

If one of the claimed WLs is actually the recruiter, well we can blame a loss on them for being stupid and leading us to believe otherwise.

This.
Going to actually read now.

[Andrius]

Unvote. Vote: Mr Subliminal.

If Sublim isn't the recruiter, Toasty can JK Ludi tonight.

Looking at nopoint's flip, I'm thinking that recruits are vanillized. Therefore even if the cult recruited Andy or tans, they wouldn't have a roleblock.

Unvote, Vote: Subliminal

HESHIN A GO GO BABY
BACK IN BUSINESS.

C'MON LUDI BLUE LANTERNS OVER HERE!

[Andrius]

If he ISN'T recruiter then I can block hiplop, so the OLC covers the two last suspects.

[hiplop]

ill vote Subliminal if you guys promise me ludi tomorrow. I do see subliminal as pretty scummy tbf, but I have a feeling he could be RED MAFIA... still not a bad lynch, probably

[Kast]

@Mod-

Is there any game significance to LLD's and FM's death as opposed to Peregrine's and Friend's deaths?

- Lady Lambdadelta, Deadman (Town Redirector), member of the Justice League, aligned with the town, died Night 1.
- FrozenMirror, Munk (Cult Cop), member of the Indigo Tribe, aligned with the town died Night 1.

- kondi2424 PeregrineV, Kilowog (Drill Sergeant), member of the Green Lantern Corps, aligned with the town, killed Night 2.
- Bogre Friend, Hawkgirl (1-Shot Watcher Lover-Mason), member of the Justice League, aligned with the town, killed Night 2.

@Ludi-
It's been explained a few times why your claimed role & role change doesn't fit for flavor, balance, or synergy reasons. It's also been explained a few times that your behavior is plagued with low activity and general lack of attempts to contribute (to be fair, your recent string of posts in the face of an imminent lynch is a change from your previous posting behavior). While there isn't definite consensus, you're exaggerating in claiming that Hiplop (or any of the D1 WL's who got PMs) are being cleared for no reason; it's pretty clear that several people got a WL PM that implies they are unlikely to be CR.

You disagreeing with the explanations and asserting that there is NO EXPLANATION simply because you disagree with them is an invalid and pointless defense.

@Subliminal/CJ-
As far as lynching between Subliminal and CJ,

IF

they were exactly equal, then it would seemingly be better to lynch the one who has had more opportunities to recruit and thus is potentially more dangerous. But they aren't equal. Mr.S claimed late but he did claim to get the WL PM and at least one of the WLs has confirmed that Mr.S bread crumbed being a WL. Further, CJ's claimed role sounds fake and this alone should be enough to tip the scales in his favor.

I'm all for lynching CJ today and letting Andy block Subliminal tonight if CJ is not the recruiter.

@Kdub's claim-
I'm a bit torn on the claim. We already have one confirmed 1x PGO. However, it was a mafia 1x PGO, which could imply a symmetry of one town PGO and one mafia PGO. If mod answers that there is a mechanics significant difference in the wording for the deaths on N1 and the deaths on N2, then it supports Kdub's claim. Barring that, there's another plausible symmetry for a PGO (mafia PGO and SK PGO) that would make sense as an anti-cult balance.

Also, with the number of kills on N1 and N2 staying the same (with NPIAU's death being a function of role), it's entirely possible that Kdub is telling the truth about the Peregrine kill, but is lying to hide an N1 kill on either LLD or FM (either of which would pretty clearly implicate him as SK).

People claiming that Kdub revealed under 0 pressure are incorrect. If IHSIB was lying/fake claiming, then Kdub HAD to reveal (or at least claim something different) since BB made it very clear that he was going to investigate IHSIB no matter what. If IHSIB was lying (actually Cult or SK), then BB would have revealed that tomorrow and Kdub would certainly have been lynched tomorrow.

PEDIT-
@Hiplop-
Is there a reason you think Subliminal is Red Mafia?

[Oversoul]

I have returned. I will make a catchup post tonight, hopefully.

My respite from posting has cleared my thoughts so I can actually think logically now.

[Magister Ludi]

I am at L-1

[Oversoul]

You apparently cannot count.

[Magister Ludi]

Kdub, unvote, please.

1. There has already been a fakeclaim in this game that partially intercedes with mine

Toog's fakeclaim included Doctor. If you think I am fakeclaiming, you would have to consider that dana put into the game two fakeclaims that would counter claim each other. More logical is the fact that I am actually a doctor.

2. If you believe Saint Walker is not in the game, that would mean that there are entirely no blue lanterns initially in the game.

I think this cements it, really.

3. Doctor is a traceable role, and easily found out lying based on the already flipped information roles

Given that there is two trackers (basically), it makes no sense to give a fakeclaim to the CR that can be caught out so easily.

4. This could be potentially the last day town has majority.

There are probably three scum left, and and probably two cult, the recruiter and recruit from night two. We have lynched scum on three out of five chances, and have had cult die over night, and this could still possibly be the last day town has majority, assuming a town kill and a recruitment tonight. Taking the ratio from 2:3:8 to 3:3:6. This setup needs cult to fail recruiting, with the anti-cult doc, and the mafia to fail to kill (with my own power initially), and the roleblockers, if town, function as both. It make sense.

5. This wagon on me is exceedingly lazy

People aren't really interested in convincing anyone of their case. Instead, I'm having to engage in large wall battles for seemingly no purpose, its just a waste of time. zmuffin especially has gone into overdrive. Votes come very easily to this wagon. Other wagons, not so much.

6. Mr. Sub and hiplop both put rather weak votes on me, and are the people detailed as being highest chance of cult recruiter by myself

Mr Sub's vote especially was bad, and he is very eager to rush through this day, while waving his hands and co-ordinating night actions according to his own agenda. He wants to see me dead.

~~`

I'm entirely willing to wagon MR Sub if hiplop goes nowhere, But I believe it still has some life in it.

Hiplop, are you serious about lynching Mr Sub?

[Magister Ludi]

No, this is the votecount.

Votecount 3.2.4

Magister Ludi

(6)

- zMuffinMan, tanstalas, Kast, hiplop, Mr Sub, kdub
hiplop (2) - Magister Ludi, Blackberry
Mr Subliminal (3) - Nikanor, toasty, andrius
Oversoul (1) - Oversoul

Not Voting (2) - ToastyToast, vezokpiraka,

Votes to Lynch (7)

[Andrius]

Dear Ludi,

We're lynching Subliminal.
You should join.

<3,
Andy

[hiplop]

yes. I think there is a good chance he is anti-town. Looking at the WL pm, unless I'm fucking blind; theres nothing in those posts that proves ANYTHING. It honestly makes a lot of sense.

Would rank my reads for CR like this

Magister
Subliminal

...not sure who else it could be, in all honesty. I think toastytoast is town, tbh.

NINJA - if you're actually at L-1, and are town, dont you think it would be ok to kill you today? we learn a RIDICULOUS amount of info about the game regarding your flip, that can win us the game more than likely.

If no one will hammer, ill have no problem with going to subliminal

[Andrius]

Hey hiplop.
We're lynching Subliminal.
You should stop being a twat and join.

<3,
Andy

[hiplop]

not liking how you're implying my vote was OMGUS ludi T_T just forgot to set my vote down

ANDY ILL JOIN IF IT GETS MOAR LORGE

[Magister Ludi]

WHAT? When is town ever ok to be killed? This is the last day town will probably have the majority. No way in hell am I happy about being lynched, and we learn nothing about the game that we didn't already know.

That makes no sense. Are you happy if we lynched you?

Subliminal vote?

[Magister Ludi]

ALL WILL BE WELL

Unvote

Vote:

Cult Recruiter

Mr. Subliminal

[The Book of Oa]

Votecount 3.2.4

Magister Ludi (6) - zMuffinMan, tanstalas, Kast, hiplop, Mr Subliminal, Kdub
Mr Subliminal (4) - Nikanor, ToastyToast, Andrius, Magister Ludi
hiplop (1) - Blackberry
Oversoul (1) - Oversoul

Not Voting (1) - vezokpiraka


With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch and 7 to no lynch.

Deadline for the second lynch expires in (expired on 2011-09-15 06:15:00)

V/LAs:

@Mod-Is there any game significance to LLD's and FM's death as opposed to Peregrine's and Friend's deaths?

No, it was done by two different mods. It's been changed now.