Open 319: Jungle Republic - Day 5: Calamity *GAME OVER*

[whispersilk]

Seriously, you are not going to worm your way out of that one.

[Thor665]

Your case on Josh isn't my case on Josh - otherwise I could see it.
My case on Josh is he's town, but by PoE is pretty likely to be Mafia - but I think DK is far more likely...so...yeah.

Contradiction? Where am I worming at all?

[whispersilk]

I don't have a case. If I had a case, I'd have posted it. I just called the scum teams out based on who I think is town. Ergo everyone left is scum.

You're the one calling him town, yet wants to lynch him at the same time...

To prove what exactly?

Contradiction. CHECK.
Trying to worm your way out of your scum slip by making out there is some logic to your nonsense. CHECK.

[whispersilk]

3. Sky
4. DeityKabuto
5. BBmolla
6. CMPunk
7. havingfitz
8. whispersilk
9. DonJosh
12. Thor665

Come on Thor. 4 scum left/4 town left.

I want you to tell me who is the scum and why.

[havingfitz]

@Thor...

1. I realize town will be on mislynches. Even multiple ones. Any defense that scum would never lead two mislynches is pure WIFOM. My point is that you spearheaded the Ray and BF mislynches and in the case on Ray...you Day 1 tunnelling was inexcusable. The only other serious suspicion I recall you voicing on D1 was towards BF after he placed suspicion on you and then whom you promptly worked the lynch of D2. I am not ruling out the other two players who were on both mislynches but your prominence on those wagons makes you my prime target.

2. Agree or not (I presume not since its against you) but the fact you are still in the game is IMO an indicator that you are more likley to be scum than not scum.

Your blindness argument is ridiculous, and where have I engaged in OMGUS?

Say the comments I posted are not a contradicition but I do not see how you can paint them any other way. You say you do not see a case on DJ but on the very same page you say you'd like to lynch him.

Who likes to lynch players that aren't scum? (Hint: Scum) Thor=scum.

[whispersilk]

Seriously, someone needs to hammer him right now. The fact there is someone not voting at all, and two other useless votes SCREAMS SCUM.

[Thor665]

@havingfitz and whisper;

"If we're hunting mafia I'd like to lynch either DK or DonJosh."

"My case on DK is PoE.
CM is a less optimal lynch because the three person set he was in had a scum flip from it. The other has not yet and is down to a two person set - you really think there is no scum there? I would wager hefty money on it right now, and I think DK looks worse than Don Josh because I've tagged town tells from the latter and not so much the former."

There is not a contradiction there. You're squinting and twisting your heads and saying there is one there, but there isn't.

@whisper;
I would rank it thusly

3. Sky - possible scum, leaning town.
4. DeityKabuto - likely scum, highly likely mafia
5. BBmolla - unlikely mafia, reasonably likely wolf not likely scum if CM is scum
6. CMPunk - unlikely mafia, reasonably likely wolf not likely scum if BB is scum
7. havingfitz - likely scum, strong mafia suspect
8. whispersilk - possible scum, unlikely fitz partner.
9. DonJosh - likely town, immensely strong chance of scum if DK is town

What's your ranking?

@whisper's hammer request - derp, even if I am scum I only have one buddy so...you're derping the heck out of that tell.

[Thor665]

Actually, hell, you're functionally calling at least three people off the wagon obvious town while you're sitting on it...derp, derp the tell, huh? That actually shows that there is a *higher* chance of scum ON the Thor wagon as off it. Yeah, party on, push this sucker through - and then lynch the hell out of the wagon.

[whispersilk]

@havingfitz and whisper;

"If we're hunting mafia I'd like to lynch either DK or DonJosh."

"My case on DK is PoE.
CM is a less optimal lynch because the three person set he was in had a scum flip from it. The other has not yet and is down to a two person set - you really think there is no scum there? I would wager hefty money on it right now, and I think DK looks worse than Don Josh because I've tagged town tells from the latter and not so much the former."

There is not a contradiction there. You're squinting and twisting your heads and saying there is one there, but there isn't.

@whisper;
I would rank it thusly

3. Sky - possible scum, leaning town.
4. DeityKabuto - likely scum, highly likely mafia
5. BBmolla - unlikely mafia, reasonably likely wolf not likely scum if CM is scum
6. CMPunk - unlikely mafia, reasonably likely wolf not likely scum if BB is scum
7. havingfitz - likely scum, strong mafia suspect
8. whispersilk - possible scum, unlikely fitz partner.
9. DonJosh - likely town, immensely strong chance of scum if DK is town

What's your ranking?

@whisper's hammer request - derp, even if I am scum I only have one buddy so...you're derping the heck out of that tell.

LOL, you just called everyone scum, except for Sky, who is "possible scum", and Don Josh; THE ONE YOU WANT TO LYNCH ALONG WITH DK.

Man, grow some balls that equal your beard and give some real reads, not just possible this/likely that.

You are failing right now, badly.

I've already stated my four scum suspects, remember? Why are you asking me again? Stop trying to divert attention away from the fact that your reads suck, your theories suck and your contradiction doesn't exist, because they do, and it does.

[whispersilk]

Actually, hell, you're functionally calling at least three people off the wagon obvious town while you're sitting on it...derp, derp the tell, huh? That actually shows that there is a *higher* chance of scum ON the Thor wagon as off it. Yeah, party on, push this sucker through - and then lynch the hell out of the wagon.

WHAT? Where am I calling 3 people off the wagon town?

I've clearly stated that I think scum are you, fitz, sky and DJ.

Thor665 (4/5) - havingfitz, whispersilk, BBmolla, DeityKabuto
DeityKabuto (1/5) - Thor665
CMPunk (1/5) - DonJosh
BBmolla (1/5) - CMPunk

NOT VOTING (1/8): Sky

Off your wagon are YOU, SKY and DON JOSH. I'm calling 3 people off your wagon SCUM, NOT TOWN. Stop twisting what I say to suit your motives.

[Thor665]

But there is zero reason for at least one of those players not to be excited to hammer me. Mafia would be happy to lynch a wolf and wolves would be happy to lynch a mafia.
So at least one of those three is obviouslly not scum.
At that point 50% of the people voting me are scum regardless of if I am scum or not.
And this even presumes my "buddy" (who you say is fitz) isn't bussing me. So at that stage there are actually two obvious towns amongst the people you're saying are obvious scum because if I'm mafia/wolf that means *both* of the opposite scum team are refusing to vote me? You are derping this tell to high heaven.

Also, my list of scumspects is as good/better than yours. Yes, it's less clear - but that's because I'm actually scumhunting over here and all of my relational tells make sense.
My clears are also stronger and surer than any of yours will be.

Like - try to explain why DK and BB are town, in your own case? I bet your answer will be "gut" and though that's fine, it's hardly so amazing that I look like a lesser man for having less clear reads on my town tells.

[Thor665]

@Whisper - actually - do me a favor and also tell me if I'm a wolf or a mafia. With my scum reads I can provide that information. Like fitz, you're just sort of vaguely hunting "scum" with no concept of how each flip is affecting chances of players being wolves or mafia - and come tomorrow that is going to be *very* important.

[CMPunk]

CM, your vote on BB is absolutely useless. Can you please put it where it's going to make a difference?

...hint...

Spoiler:

ON THOR

Why? I think BB is scum/Wolf. I don't think Thor is right now, going to read him in ISO tonight might hammer if I see reason.

[Shadowmod]

Thor665 (4/5) - havingfitz , whispersilk , BBmolla , DeityKabuto DeityKabuto (0/5) - Thor665 CMPunk (2/5) - DonJosh , Sky BBmolla (1/5) - CMPunk havingfitz (1/5) - Thor665 Not Voting (0/8): With 8 Players alive it requires 5 Votes to lynch / 4 to nolynch. Deadline will be reached on Monday September 19th 2011, 6:00 p.m. Forum Time [UTC-6].

(expired on 2011-09-19 18:00:00)

till Day 3 Deadline

[whispersilk]

Your reads and your tells suck, Thor, because you've tunnelled and championed two town deaths, and managed to drag town onto their wagons with your convincing "scum hunting". I'm done believing anything you have to say, and if all the people off your wagon are town, then why the hell are they not thinking like me and voting for your obv scum ass.

Maybe one of my scum reads are wrong, maybe DJ is town and CM is scum; maybe fitz is scum, but not your buddy; maybe one of the other scum team are already on your wagon, and your buddy doesn't want to hammer. I think there is one scum from the other scum team on your wagon, and the other is off, and I think your scum buddy is off.

[whispersilk]

CM, why do you think BB is scum/wolf?

[CMPunk]

I have already outlined that.

[CMPunk]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p3342182
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p3362562
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p3371720
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p3381633
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p3382651

are the reasons why I am voting BB and think he and DK are best lynches

[BBmolla]

@CMPunk: Explain your town read on Thor.
@DonJosh: Do you think Thor is town? How do you feel about him thinking you are town but wanting to lynch you?
@Sky: Explain your town read on Thor.

^At least one of these guys are scum.

[whispersilk]

I want to know why CM thinks thor is town too.

And yeah, I'm convinced Skyscum exists.

[CMPunk]

Seriously? despite the fact ive said like 5 times, maybe more as to why I think he is town.

[CMPunk]

Sigh

I'm being run up for the scumtell of being "wrong" aren't I?

D1, I asked you if Ray flipped town, would you blame yourself, and you replied 'Yes, I would take the blame'.

Way before that I suspected you, and as a scum it's normal for you to admit taking the blame to appear Townie and confident with your read on Ray.

vote: DeityKabuto

Seems scum would go out of their way to pin this on Thor. Yes, he said he would take the blame if Ray flipped town but that does not make Thor scum IMO. It just made him wrong, like 6 other people were including me (Yes it took 7 to lynch, not just Thor)

Being wrong is NOT scum IMO

Pushing what seems to be a policy lynch on someone who was wrong, simply because they were wrong is Scummy.

Thor had no reason to stick his head out and say if I am wrong I take responsibilty, that is pretty big burden for someone to take, and putting themselves way out in the open, which scum/wolves want to avoid.

Thor is town

Being wrong does not make you scummy, and I think this case on thor is scum pushed simply because he said he would take the fall today if Rey fliiped town which he did. Scum know he would take the fall and see it as an easy lynch now to push.

Sky, why is it exactly you want me lynched what parts of what i have said do you not agree with? You have done a lot of saying I need lynched but actually nothing saying WHY I should be lynched. Your main reasoning that I can actually see is my lack of explinations on votes which I have already proven to be a lie as I have reasons with ALL my votes and feel you are just sheeping BB and what he is saying.

Being wrong does not make you scummy, and I think this case on thor is scum pushed simply because he said he would take the fall today if Rey fliiped town which he did. Scum know he would take the fall and see it as an easy lynch now to push.

Sky, why is it exactly you want me lynched what parts of what i have said do you not agree with? You have done a lot of saying I need lynched but actually nothing saying WHY I should be lynched. Your main reasoning that I can actually see is my lack of explinations on votes which I have already proven to be a lie as I have reasons with ALL my votes and feel you are just sheeping BB and what he is saying.

Hey, why aren't you pressuring Thor more?

Wouldn't it help Thor being lynched in your place?..

What part of I don't believe Thor is scum, makes you think I would want to pressure him more?

Thor is town

CM here displays that he thinks Thor is undoubtedly town which is wierd in itself. This could be because CM-Scum knows Thor-Town is town, or because he's trying to make his scum brother seem more town... or something. I don't think that would be a smart move which is why I'm raising my eyebrow at their relationship.

Or and heres a thought... I just don't see the reason for a scum to take responsibility for the lynch on day 1 and get themselves lynched day 2. there is no scum motivation in what Thor did. And I feel the wagon is scum driven by this fact that he said he would assume responsibility.

Hey CMPunk, do you think you could finally tell me what wagon you like more since that's what it has come down to, and you're sadly not the one being hanged?

Neither, I think DK/BB are our best bet at hitting non town right now. Given I have already said I believe thor to be town, I won't be voting him until you can show me something concrete that he is scum

[whispersilk]

Just because you don't think scum would tunnel twice, and because you don't think there is scum motivation to what he did?

I'm sorry, but there is hella motivation to do what he did, because it ended in two town being lynched, and scum want everyone but themselves dead, and he piled on the WIFOM to try and get out of it.

[havingfitz]

@Whisper - actually - do me a favor and also tell me if I'm a wolf or a mafia. With my scum reads I can provide that information. Like fitz, you're just sort of vaguely hunting "scum" with no concept of how each flip is affecting chances of players being wolves or mafia - and come tomorrow that is going to be *very* important.

I am hunting scum. While I would like to get a wolf first...I'd be more happy with the consolation prize of mafia over another mislynch. I hope you are a wolf but any scum would be better than town. I believe everyone in the game is giving their best effort at finding scum since everyone in the game has opposing alignments they want to get rid of.

As for the flips...d'whut? Of course I am considering the flips. That's why I'm voting the great and mighty Thor. If Ray and BF had flipped some combination of scum I'd probably have cleared you in my mind. I'm absolutely considering the flips. As for the flip of TheFool....I'm having a hard time finding links to him. I haven't found a connection between the two of you so you could be wolf or mafia IMO. If you can point out a solid link between the two of you to indicate you are mafia I'd be happy to look elsewhere (ie CMPunk)

[Thor665]

Your reads and your tells suck, Thor

Don't be a witch. At the very least admit that being wrong isn't scummy - at that point you need to show why my cases where inherently scummy. No one has done that yet - they're just harping on how I was wrong.

I'm done believing anything you have to say, and if all the people off your wagon are town, then why the hell are they not thinking like me and voting for your obv scum Smurf.

Because the case is Swiss cheese like in the number of holes in it?
Seriously - tell me I'm wrong, here's the case for Thorscum;

Thor lead two lynches (not opportunistically slid on, but led two lynches) on two players...and they were both town! Because, Thor is too good to be wrong *twice*
Also...Thor has a *contradiction* and...*contradiction*...ignore further discussion on this...CONTRADICTION!
Also, people aren't hammering Thor yet and/or weren't eager enough to get him lynched (depending on if you ask Whisper or fitz for their opinion of how it breaks down) this is scummy because if he was town this lynch would be super easy...because of this case...which is based on the super easiness...

Where am I wrong about that being the case? Maybe add in "tunneling" (the ultimate scumtell) and that's what you've got.
Seriously now.

I think there is one scum from the other scum team on your wagon, and the other is off, and I think your scum buddy is off.

That would at least make sense.

So...now, I know MY reads suck and I'm terrible.
But you...ah...you didn't respond to me about whether I was wolf or mafia, I'd be fascinated to see that. Because you *did* re-read the flipped scum and look for partner/lack of partner evidence to support your various scum reads, right?

I'm sorry, but there is hella motivation to do what he did, because it ended in two town being lynched, and scum want everyone but themselves dead, and he piled on the WIFOM to try and get out of it.

But certainly the on me is free of WIFOM, right?
This is silly.

@BB - explain your Scum read on me, that's as interesting to me as CM's town read...and should be of more interest to more people as we move this thing forward.