Mini 277 - Webcomic Mafia - Game Over!

[VitaminR]

I agree with Nemesis. I'm not sure if Pie should have come forward with that information. I don't think Thok would have ever denied getting roleblocked.

Unvote: Thok

[Pie_is_good]

Well, if he was scum, he wouldn't

know

for sure that he'd been getting roleblocked.

[Pie_is_good]

And about the scum group sending out someone different - He could still be an SK. But either way, the odds that I was responsible for one of the kill-less nights are, IMHO, too high to ignore.

[Fuldu]

And about the scum group sending out someone different - He could still be an SK. But either way, the odds that I was responsible for one of the kill-less nights are, IMHO, too high to ignore.

Maybe, but if you're presuming an SK (above and beyond bertrand's pseudo-SK), that results in more kills to account for, not fewer. For lack of a substantially better target, I'd be interested in full disclosure from Thok, but I think you're overestimating the value of your information.

[Aelyn]

Coron replaces Tyfo, effective immediately.

[Adele]

Woo-hoo! Coron, looking forward to hearing from ya!

[Coron]

I just realized, I'm not gonna be able to catch up on this until I'm back on sunday, it'll be the first thing I do.

[Adele]

...

eh, we've waited longer. Who better to resuscitate this game, if we can hold out for a coupla days?

[VitaminR]

So... are we waiting for Thok to fully claim and Coron to catch up?

[Adele]

Um... I dunno. I'm not too "with it" right now, sorry. I'll try to say something helpful later tonight.

[Thok]

I'm a partial cop/roleblocker. Each night I must submit a persons name; I find out if they are male or female, and if they are female I roleblock them. (Flavor, I am irresistable to women who all want to sleep with me). My minor victory condition is to win with town, my major victory condition is to never target a female character (I'm trying to change my ways).

Yes I realize I should have asked earlier for everybody to claim male/female, but I was worried that that info would help scum. I targetted Fuldu night 1, and TSAGod night's 2 and 3. TSAGod isn't a woman; I obviously don't have results for the other nights.

[TSAGod]

I'm a partial cop/roleblocker. Each night I must submit a persons name; I find out if they are male or female, and if they are female I roleblock them. (Flavor, I am irresistable to women who all want to sleep with me). My minor victory condition is to win with town, my major victory condition is to never target a female character (I'm trying to change my ways).

Yes I realize I should have asked earlier for everybody to claim male/female, but I was worried that that info would help scum. I targetted Fuldu night 1, and TSAGod night's 2 and 3. TSAGod isn't a woman; I obviously don't have results for the other nights.

I don't quite understand this logic...could you explain the cop mechanic...better? This seems pretty random and complex so as you don't get any resistance. Also, is it possible, if Fuldu is a girl, that you've already lost your major?

[Adele]

We are allowed to quote our PMs in this game, remember. Have you excluded relevant info? If not, why not quote the PM directly and fully?

On the other hand, that does sound like the kind of role that Aelyn'd write. It makes sense to me. It also fits El Chupacabre's character.

If roleblocking protects your major, then Pie did you a favour, huh? If you die, do you automatically lose your major win condition or do you win on it so long as you target no females prior to your death?

I suppose I also ought to mention I'm female.

would EBWOP but this occured to me before I hit "submit": once you hit a female character, you've lost your major win condition, so it'd be best advisable for you to use your roleblock to assist the town... giving advantages/disadvantages to people telling the truth (they may reason others are lying so they should claim female to avoid your attention, but once you lose your major wc they'll be your likely focus). Okay, I'm too burned out to think this through any further. I'm off to bed now. bye.

[Fuldu]

I suppose I also ought to mention I'm female.

In other words, "don't roleblock me." Subtle.

unvote: VitaminR; vote: Adele

[Adele]

Do some basic thinking, Fuldu. Either I'm telling the truth, or I'm not.

If I'm telling the truth, that information is useful to him; not only does it protect his major wc, but if he loses it later, it lets him know he has power over me; that he

can

role-block me.

If I'm lying, then I'd be male. Why not say so? After all, there's no harm whatever in Thok targetting me if I'm a guy.

So what exactly are you accusing me of?

[Fuldu]

I'm not suggesting that you're lying. I suppose it's possible that you're male scum, hoping he'll target you so your female partners won't be, but that doesn't seem like a winning strategy since you'd only get away with it for one night.

But if you're telling the truth, why do you care about his major WC? Coming out as female

for his benefit

is a disingenuous argument, because you have no reason to help him achieve that goal. If, on the other hand, we assume that you came out as female

for your own benefit

, then the question is: who is best served by that gender claim? A female vanilla townie wouldn't care one way or the other. A female town power role wouldn't want to be roleblocked, but even more than that wouldn't want to be publically known as a power role. But female scum wouldn't want to be roleblocked and wouldn't mind being thought of as a town power role. And so I vote.

[Pie_is_good]

I have to agree with Adele here - saying she's female is consistant with both town and scum's actions. Doesn't really prove much.

[Fuldu]

If she's female and pro-town, what has she accomplished by revealing that information? Her argument is that it's good for Thok to know that. And it is, but how does that help the town? If Thok has to give up his major win condition to help the town win

I

want him to do that, and so should Adele. Maybe he won't. Maybe he'll decide it's in his best interests to act selfishly if forced to choose between his major and minor wins. But there's no pro-town reason Adele should make it easier for him.

And, as I argued above, asking not to be roleblocked is only beneficial to scum. Pro-town power roles will do better by remaining hidden and hoping not to be roleblocked than they will by coming out and asking not to be roleblocked.

[Nemesis]

I'm not suggesting that you're lying. I suppose it's possible that you're male scum, hoping he'll target you so your female partners won't be, but that doesn't seem like a winning strategy since you'd only get away with it for one night.

But if you're telling the truth, why do you care about his major WC? Coming out as female

for his benefit

is a disingenuous argument, because you have no reason to help him achieve that goal. If, on the other hand, we assume that you came out as female

for your own benefit

, then the question is: who is best served by that gender claim? A female vanilla townie wouldn't care one way or the other. A female town power role wouldn't want to be roleblocked, but even more than that wouldn't want to be publically known as a power role. But female scum wouldn't want to be roleblocked and wouldn't mind being thought of as a town power role. And so I vote.

How many vanilla townies do you think we have?

Anyway, I think it's fairly safe to assume she doesn't want to be roleblocked. But if she is roleblocked and thus found to be telling the truth she has an "I told you so" defence. I'm kinda inclined to believe she doesn't want to cost someone on her side a major... After all, the town with all majors and minors would make the win sweeter.

You have a point but I think given she didn't have to say anything that this is interesting. It can be looked at in all kinds of ways though.

Pro-town power roles will do better by remaining hidden and hoping not to be roleblocked than they will by coming out and asking not to be roleblocked.

Why are you so sure there are vanilla townies?

Maybe a gender claim would help though. Then if Thok roleblocks someone instead of investigating them he gets a result as well as roleblocking scum/a liar. Unfortunately he may have to risk his win condition, but if he wanted his major alone he would have claimed scum day 1 and taken no night action the night before.

[Fuldu]

I don't have any idea how many vanilla townies we have, but we might also have masons, who are also largely unaffected by roleblockers and who, given the knowledge, scum would prefer to leave alone for the time being in favor of more powerful roles.

I don't see what good a gender claim is going to do. I don't see anyone going out of their way to make everyone else's individual win conditions easier. What incentive is there to do the same for Thok? Telling Thok who it's safe for him to target and who he should avoid just assures that he's not going to risk his win condition unless it's absolutely necessary. Since he's forced to make a choice every night, why make it easy for him to know which players are safe (and from the town's standpoint, useless) ones to target? If we're going to do that, all we're doing is neutering Thok's role.

[Adele]

Wow, Fuldu, you're advocating really selfish play. Shouldn't pro-towner's be interested in win-win, rather than this "oh, I'm okay with screwing over my allies" attitude?

[Fuldu]

Wow, Fuldu, you're advocating really selfish play. Shouldn't pro-towner's be interested in win-win, rather than this "oh, I'm okay with screwing over my allies" attitude?

Pro-towners should be interested in doing exactly what this game's goal mechanism espouses, trying to accomplish both win conditions, if possible, and putting the major ahead of the minor, if not.

But that's not the argument I'm making, exactly. Unless Thok chooses to forego his major win condition (and I can see no reason that he would at this point), a gender claim (either individual, like yours, or mass) aids no one but him and any women who claim. Given that, I'm hard-pressed to see any value to it.

Are scum going to lie about their gender? No. Male scum don't care one way or the other what Thok does, so might as well tell the truth. Whereas female scum know that by claiming female, they've pushed themselves well down the list of possible targets for roleblock. If Thok is useless as an investigator and actively attempting to avoid roleblocking anyone, what is gained by divulging this information?

[Adele]

I didn't analyse it from every angle, to be honest. I can't claim there's been some huge gain, true enough, but I also don't see that anything was

lost

. It was a tiny action, which you're blowing way out of proportion. It's a storm in a teacup. No real gain, no real loss. (shrug)

[Nemesis]

I only see it as if a person who claims to be male is roleblocked then it will help us know who is lying... I think it helps as long as Thok is willing to risk his major a couple of times.

[Fuldu]

I only see it as if a person who claims to be male is roleblocked then it will help us know who is lying... I think it helps as long as Thok is willing to risk his major a couple of times.

But why would anyone lie about their gender? If a player is male, Thok can't block them, so male scum don't care if he targets them, provided they don't lie about their gender. And if a player is female, Thok is less likely to target them for a roleblock if he knows that they're female, so female scum

want

Thok to know that they're female.