Mini 304: This is NOT Any Kind of Mafia (Mod Abandoned)

[Yosarian2]

Wow...hrmm, without a role, I'm not sure if I'm supposed to act scummy or not. So, i guess I might as well just act really scummy for now, until I figure out if I'm supposed to be scum or not.

So,

FOS:everyone

.

vote:no lynch

, and i think the doc should come out and claim. Also, I like pie.

[Yosarian2]

Ah, got my role now. Ok, I guess we can actually start playing right now.

/confirmed

Also,

unvote

the joke vote, just in case that actually counted.

[Yosarian2]

I make the Tamuz Gaurentee that there is a 50% chance of me being scum in this game, this is of course prior to my looking at my role.

Hey, if there's a 50% chance of you being scum, that would make you a great day 1 lynch.

[Yosarian2]

Heh...I keep losing this thread, with the way the name keeps changing.


Anyway,

vote:Raj

for taking that logic at least one step too far.

[Yosarian2]

Oh, I didn't consider that - does changing a thread title knock it off of the Watched Topics list?

I actually don't use that...I just tend to go into each forum and say "Ok, I'm in that game, let me check that one." (shrug) Don't worry about it, I'm sure I'll get used to it.

[Yosarian2]

And I vote for raj because he is supporting adele but swinging at another person. He is in one hand holding her statement up, but with the other undercutting it by not bandwagoning crop as he should be with a statement such as "bandwagoners should die". It is very interesting that he votes Vitamin R rather than crop, and I think it is scummy to boot.

So, yeah...Reasoing.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I meant when I said "taking the logic one step to far".

[Yosarian2]

Anyway,

vote:Raj

for taking that logic at least one step too far.

On another note, the title of this thread just messed me off AGAIN. I was just starting to write an apologetic PM to MeMe saying I somehow ended up in 3 regular minis at once, when I went through, checked the threads, and realized that this game is, in fact, a theme game. (sigh)

[Yosarian2]

So...you're seriously trying to discourage VitaminR frm tryong to discourage Adeline from trying to discourage Crop?

[Yosarian2]

random votes we can react to it.

self votes are safe by not voting anyone and not making anyone mad.

unvote, vote Tamuz

for being a dumbass

Clarification: when you say "being a dumbass", do you mean "voting for raj", or is there something else I missed?

[Yosarian2]

Good point. There's absolutly no reason to be throwing around "teeny tine FOS's" on page 5 of day 1. Almost anything worth mentioning is worth a vote, unless you've already got a vote on someone who's even more suspicious.

unvote:raj

vote:ryanjunk

Still a little suspicious of raj, his early votes don't seem to make a lot of sense, but I think ryan's uber-cautious actions are more suspicious. I can't tell if ryan is trying to defend raj but fos him at the same time, or if he's trying to help raj's bandwagon along without being on it, or if he's just trying to say something without saying anything so as to not look like a lurker. No matter which one it is, though, it's suspicious.

[Yosarian2]

I'm pretty sure it's still just a joke, Adele. Note that the first page still shows everyone as alive...

[Yosarian2]

Eh. I didn't vote for cropcircles, or bold a real FoS onto him because, I don't think he's scummy. But hey, all my dithering caught someone! Vote: Yosarian2

...

What?

No, really.

What?

You acted scummy, and got some people to vote for you, and your only response is to vote for one of the people who voted for you and declare that you "caught" them?

confirm vote:ryan

for a total lack of any kind of defense other then an irrelevent OMGUS vote.

[Yosarian2]

I don't think I was that scummy. And I know I'm pro-town, so I looked at people who started jumping on my bandwagon. I voted Yosarian because he jumped on second; I think this is kind of the "pole position" for scum. Not starting the bandwagon against a townie, but gleefully jumping on.

Voting for a person who looks scummy is not a scum tell. I might be right, and I might be wrong, but your actions have made me think you are more likely to be scum then a random lynch would be, so I voted for you.

To reiterate: I'm not trying to walk on eggshells. I just hadn't seen anyone who looked definitively scummy, and I figure it's too late in the day to start throwing in random votes, so I didn't vote for anybody.

But that's not what you said. You FOS'd two different people, with "little FOS's", but seemed to semi-defend one of them at the same time. That kind of wishy-washy play is often a sign of scum.

If you didn't think they looked suspicious, you shouldn't have FOS'd them. If you did, you probably should have voted them, especally on day 1 when the town has nothing really to go on except whatever small scum tells they can figure out. When you make a post that tries to have it both ways, it just makes me suspicious of you.

Now, I explained this in some detail, and instead of responding to my post, you simply voted for me. Trying to use your vote as a weapon to intimidate people into not voting for you, instead of trying to use logic and reason to figure out who the scum are, is also a scum tell.

Some people took that opportunity to call me scum; I consider this a very convenient opportunity for scum to lynch a townie. Hence my vote. At the very least, it'll get everyone to look at the people running this wagon.

FoS: VitaminR

Again, if you really are a good guy, the right play isn't to attack the people voting for you; a person can't be lynched by scum alone. The right play would be to try to convince whatever good guys might be either on your wagon or thinking of getting on your wagon that the logic against you is weak. Instead, you vote for me and FOS vitaminR.

[Yosarian2]

Unvote, Vote VitaminR

for pressuring ryan?

Ok...you're voting vitimanR because he's voting for Ryan? Why? And why vitimanR and not any of the rest of us voting for ryan?

[Yosarian2]

So, people are accusing me of, at best, not being very useful to the town.

That's not why I'm voting for you.

[Yosarian2]

unvote

Ok, I now think that both Ryan and emp are GG's.

[Yosarian2]

I think so too and that means ryan's claim should be taken as a vanilla townie claim. Not enough to persuade me to change my vote.

Except, how would ryan have known that many (or, possibly, all) of the good guys are named "Liberty Taco Bell" unless he also had that name?

Unless, of course, the scum were told this as a safe claim (but if this was a safe claim, I'd have expected Ryan to use it before he did).

Or, for all I know, perhaps the scum are ALSO all named liberty taco bell.

[Yosarian2]

Is there any specific reason you have to think this information will help the town, Emp?

[Yosarian2]

Well, i already mostly claimed, so yeah, I'm TLB. Nothing about being glued to my monitor in my PM, though.

[Yosarian2]

The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to lean towards this theory:

Or, for all I know, perhaps the scum are ALSO all named liberty taco bell.

Perhaps everyone has the same name.

[Yosarian2]

Heh...so, the vote on the mod actually counted, huh?

I doubt there'd be an actual SK moderator again so soon after the first game with one...I'm actually rather worried about what might happen if we lynch the mod in an April Fools mafia game.

Still, InHim, I think you'd better claim.

[Yosarian2]

Drummer:

Vote: Drummer

. Replacing my pre-TLB-hullabaloo vote on you. And furthermore, ryan is absolutely the wrong lynch, because he *cannot* be mafia- there’s no way that he’d claim LTB with his comafia *also* TLB. The instant one of them died, ryan would be exposed; from his point of view, he had no way of knowing that protowns would also be TLB. And anyway, I personally don’t care for lynching vanillas D1 for the sake of being vanilla.

It is possible the mafia was told that everyone was going to be named TLB as sort of a safe claim (it would stink to claim one thing and only later find out everyone else was named TLB) but Ryan's claim dosn't quite feel like "Oh, don't lynch me, I've got a safe claim!" kind of claim. I don't think ryan is at all cleared, but I'm willing to wait on that until we get a little more information, like what the mafia's rolenames are and such.

[Yosarian2]

If you didn't like the idea of the claim, then why didn't you say so in post 205?

[Yosarian2]

Well, I said that I was lost and I didn't like that, but frankly I wasn't expecting people to dive in the shallow end as they did.
It went:
post 203 >suggestion for mass claim
post 204 >query about what good mass claim would be
post 205 >my general sulk post (I wasn't really "with it" that day)
post 206 >mass claim started

WTF? Uncool. So if you don't protest quite quick enough (note how many folk didn't post at all between the suggestion and the beginning) then your opinion's worthless? I don't like what happened there

at all

.

um... ta, Rajrhcpfreak

(shrug) The problem was that many people (including me) had already more-or-less name-claimed, so people didn't see any problem in confriming their names.

But I would like to hear exactally why the claim was a good idea. I hope that explination is a good one.

[Yosarian2]

Adele:
I hate to ask for this this blindly, but trust me for now. I will explain more in or near twilight.


micigante’s replacement:
Still want to make sure: are you TLB or non-TLB?

I'm not sure if anyone has not claimed TLB or not TLB yet, but anyone who hasn't claimed yet, I don't know if you should without more of an explination from Emp.

[Yosarian2]

So would the mod, in *this* game, ruin his little prank by cluing the mafia in to it just to give the mafia such a minuscule short-term benefit? It makes no sense.

There's no reason the mod wouldn't tell the scum "Oh, and by the way, here is one safe claim: feel free to claim "taco liberty bell"" without telling them anything more. In fact, I would expect it, or something like it; no reason for the mod's april fool's joke to randomally kill a scum just because he didn't know about it.

[Yosarian2]

Alright, let's put this discussion about rolenames and such on hold for the moment and go back to hunting scum.

vote:raj

I was suspicious of him earlier this game, for the illogical vote on vitimanR, and now he's just lurking; he made one joke post on Wednesday, and before that he hadn't posted since last Thursday.

[Yosarian2]

Just so I understand: you were thinking that the mafia aren’t TLB, but were given that as a safe claim?

(shrug) I think it's possible. There are several possibilites, like I said before. I would tend to think that the mod would set up the way in some kind of fair way that wouldn't set the scum up for failure, but we don't know.

As I said before, when we catch a scum and find out what the scum's role names are, we might have a better idea. Until then, I'm not really going to worry about it, unless someone has a suggestion for some way in which you think the TLB thing is going to catch us a scum today.

[Yosarian2]

Ok...why is there a bandwagon on Drummer, exactally?

Anyway, I'm definatly keeping my vote on Raj until he starts participating. I still think he's more likely scum then not, and the way he was posting fairly often when the spotlight was on him, but has vanished since we moved on, has made me even more suspicious of him.

[Yosarian2]

"this is my normal playstyle" would be fine, if people were attacking you based on your playstyle. Right now, people are attacking you partly because of your irrational vitimanR vote earlier, and partly because you simply have not been helpfull to the town so far.

[Yosarian2]

(shrug) Well, he hasn't started any bandwagons, joined any bandwagons, argued against any bandwagons or votes, or even really commented on, say, the Ryan bandwagon. Other then the illogical VitimanR vote, the only votes or even FOS's he's made all game were an OMGUS FOS against Tamuz, and an OMGUS vote against Elvis. He never commented on stratagy, or speculated about the game set-up, or said anything during the whole TLB discussion, and he hasn't ever even given the appearence of looking for sum tells. He only participates at all when he's under attack.

That's what I mean when I say he has not been helpfull. He has not really done anything yet this game that even looks like an attempt to help the town find scum or figure out what to do.

[Yosarian2]

Well, that's interesting...

I don't have enough info to decide if you should 100% confirm it or not; you're the only one who might know enough to make an informed decision.

I will say that 85% is enough that if you decide not to confirm, I will still vote for VitimanR, but keep in mind that if you turn out to be wrong you will look suspicious tommorow. It's up to you, though.

unvote

and I'll hold my vote until you decide if you want to confirm or not, Adele, and to give VitimanR a chance to say whatever it is he has to say.

[Yosarian2]

...interesting.

I've got to say that the wording of part of my role PM is making me doubt Adele's claim a little bit; but that could very well be another red herring.

[Yosarian2]

Yeah...

Despite my misgivings, I suppose if Adele comes back with a 100% confirmed result, I'll probably end up voting VitimanR. Following a claimed cop day 1 is just more likely to at least give useful information then any other option.

[Yosarian2]

Ok

vote:vitimanR

[Yosarian2]

Doesn't look like I'll be getting any useful info today (my role is not almighty game-breaking, sorry ).

Why would you claim to have a weak role for no reason?

Anyway, no deaths last night. Heh....I wonder if the "April Fools" joke here might be that there is no mafia at all...

[Yosarian2]

Oh, right, you're already claimed, Adele, not thinking...(sigh) Ignore that...

[Yosarian2]

Or perhaps he's in one cult and can find out who's in the other cult?

[Yosarian2]

Yeah. I would be a little happier if the death scene actually said his alignment, but I think the difference between "de-cultifier" (what he claimed) and "cross-cultifier" is enough to assume he was probably lying, unless of course the mod built in some more evil practical jokes into the setup of this game.

[Yosarian2]

(shrug) Honestly, when I first saw VitimanR's rolename, I thought he had been telling the truth after all. Then I realized it was slightly different then the name he had claimed. I now suspect he was probably a bad guy, but I'm not really sure.

I will say that if EmpTiger did somehow get role-based info about VitimanR, I'm not sure if we would want him to claim anything else about it yet.

[Yosarian2]

I have a very strong reason to believe that VitaminR was speaking the truth and protown.

This statement was why I said it, Drummer; I thought he seemed to be implying role-based info with his "very strong reason" comment. We might be better off not knowing, though.

[Yosarian2]

I have several reasons for believing we don’t just have a cult. One of them is basic math. Let’s say we had just a 1 person cult. Well, then, either Adele is lying (and we should lynch her) or it was VitaminR (in which case the game should have ended already). So if there’s just a cult, we’ve got at least a 2 person cult. Which easily can be overpowered for a minigame, to the point where Day 1 could have been lynch-or-lose.

I'm not sure I get your math here. Hypothetically, say there is a cult with one recruiter and one "cross-cultifier" or whatever at the start of the game. How would day 1 be lynch or lose? With the game starting in day, the cult would have at most 3 people day 2, if their recruitment suceeded and none of them got lynched or nightkilled.

[Yosarian2]

I'm against the roleblocker claiming. It's a small lead in exchange for a medium-sized pro-town role. And Emptyger's just looking weirder and weirder to me. A lot of your logic I just don't follow at all.

If there's a kill missing, and a roleblocker did block someone last night, I wouldn't call that a "small lead", I'd call that "very probable scum". Doesn't prove that someone's scum, but it would be very likely.

[Yosarian2]

I was assuming that, analogous to mafia operations, the cult would get a recruit action, rather than only a specific cult member(s). Reevaluating, imposing some restrictions on who could recruit might allow a more balanced setup. However, the game still seems like it could too easily become too dependent on nightabilities; the town can’t race recruitment effectively if every cult member lynched can be replaced through recruitment the following night.

Well, yes, cults can be very strong. Very often, the power of the cult is counterbalanced by either the recruitment failing some of the time (for example, mafia members usually can't be recruited; sometimes certain key pro-town roles can't be recruited either) and/or by the extreme vulnerability of the recruitment power (sometimes, if the cult recruiter dies, the cult can no longer recruit and from then on is just basically an evil mason-ish group that can only win by lynching everyone else). There are ways to balance a cult, so I don't think you can rule out the possibility of a cult just based on balance issues.

[Yosarian2]

A note that he "likes" Tamuz because Tamuz has a possible post restriction, something which by no means ensures that he's town. Strange if you ask me.

Untrue.

I never said that I liked him because of the supposed restriction.

I refered to him as Tamuz of the post restriction.

Ok, want to share some of the reasons you like some people and don't like others, then?

[Yosarian2]

If the mod returns and this game dosn't get abandonded, I'll go back and do a re-read and post something.

[Yosarian2]

Well, I will say I don't entirley understand this jecht wagon...why is he supposed to be suspicious?

[Yosarian2]

Yeah, I want to contine this game. Should I send you my role now, or should Iwait until this is all final?

[Yosarian2]

Want to Play vote count:

Want to play:Tamuz, Yosarian2, EmpTyger, Drummer

Does not want to play: Jech

Not voted yet: Bacde, cropcircles, micigante, ryanjunk

[Yosarian2]

Want to Play vote count:

Want to play/is at least willing to play:Tamuz, Yosarian2, Drumme, Adele, EmpTyger (if Raj gets the full game setup)

Does not want to play: Jech

Not voted yet: Bacde, cropcircles, micigante, ryanjunk

[Yosarian2]

Want to Play vote count:

Want to play/is at least willing to play:Tamuz, Yosarian2, Drumme, Adele, Bacde, ryanjunk , Elvis (so long as we can fill her in on what's happened) EmpTyger (if Raj gets the full game setup)

Does not want to play: Jech

Not voted yet: cropcircles

Sounds like we've got a pretty good agreement, raj; most people want to continue, we might just have to replace 2 or 3 people.

[Yosarian2]

Heh...I called it.

Anyway, no deaths last night. Heh....I wonder if the "April Fools" joke here might be that there is no mafia at all...

Anyway, this was my role:

Taco Liberty Bell - Backup Cop - you'll overtake the roles of a dead cop, whether it be alignment cop or role cop.

And let me guess..there wasn't an alighment cop or a role cop, right?