Brightest Day Mafia, Part 1 - GAME OVER

[Blackberry]

I only know one of the bus driven targets N2.

...

OVERSOUL HAS SELF-ADMITTED HE GOT A PM FROM MOD INDICATING HE WAS JAILKEPT/ROLEBLOCKED.

...

Him being targetted makes no sense whatsoever. Plus, I see no reason for this person to be the other bus driven target, I don't think.

...

It is *possible* I'm paranoid and outguessing-the-mod too much and there is not in fact a bus driver or redirector. But that remains to be seen.

[tanstalas]

If WLC is CR, then no one can be recruited because nopointinactingup was recruited N1 and he was blocked N2 by tanstalas.

Except that my powers were stolen and if that resolves first he wasn't blocked, so if WLC flips CR yo could be a recruitee

[zMuffinMan]

@Anyone who thinks WLC is lying about his claim:

Do you think he is lying and not using a mod-provided fake-claim?

If not, what part of his claim do you not believe?

Surely if he's scum of some sort with a Mera fake-claim, he's giving the real details of his fake-claim. The only plausible explanation for you thinking his claim is "bullshit" is if you think he's lying altogether.

Anyway, these are the people I'm considering could be CR:

- CJ
- WLC
- Blackberry
- Subliminal
- ToastyToast

Ruling others out for various reasons:

- Kast (first to claim "vanillarised" last night, tracker claim, etc)
- Andrius (tans shenanigans)
- tans (andrius shenanigans)
- IHSIB (claimed mafia miller = if he's CR, he's got to hope against all odds a cult cop doesn't get a "cult" result on him or he'd have some splainin to do)
- OS (too many claimed blocks on him, and just don't see him as CR)
- hiplop (lolWL)
- Nikanor (lolWL)
- Vezok (OS)***

I don't like CJ coming out with a SaintWalker claim and then going back into hiding. Still want explanations for his protects. I also want to know as much detail as he can give me about his role without outing what his current ability is. And participation in the game would be cool, too, if that's not too much to ask.

WLC I'm not reading as CR at this point. I don't think he's scum either.

Blackberry I'm not seeing as CR at this point, either. A couple things he's said here and there and also npiau's interaction with him yesterday didn't read like cult-cult interaction to me.

Subliminal is being ignored because he was double-blocked last night and.... er.... ummmmmm... Can't figure out why people are ruling him out as CR. Currently don't think he's the most likely CR candidate, though.

Toast is an interesting case. Two possible interpretations for the way he reacted to Nikanor D2:
1) Genuine
2) He's scum of some sort (not SK) and knew Nikanor couldn't have got a "SK" result on him so overreacted with a fake-claim.
Second becomes increasingly more likely with every post from Toast because I don't see a genuine desire to find CR in his play, and he's sort of just coasting by at the moment.

*** Actually, vezok can't be ruled out as a potential CR. But it would mean Oversoul being recruited N1, and, well... I don't think vezok could pull off this sort of shit as CR in this game.

[Oversoul]

@Anyone who thinks WLC is lying about his claim:Do you think he is lying and not using a mod-provided fake-claim?If not, what part of his claim do you not believe? Surely if he's scum of some sort with a Mera fake-claim, he's giving the real details of his fake-claim. The only plausible explanation for you thinking his claim is "bullshit" is if you think he's lying altogether.

Yes I just plain out think he is lieing. Too suspicious of a player, WEIRD ass claim with the role he says he is, and his actions today, all combine to form a nice little word called scum.

[zMuffinMan]

You know what I think is WEIRD?

Someone who claims to have a 1-shot ability that could supposedly "clear" CJ from being CR when a tracking ability does nothing of the sort (unless he visits no one).

So you think his claim is fake. Do you think he's more likely CR or mafia?

Who's CR if it's not WLC, and why?

[Kast]

This is Kast2:

@Kast: I disagree about SK direction. I think we always disagreed on that point, so not gonna bother with it unless it becomes a real issue.

To add to Muffin's point on OS's tracker/clear claim, it also wouldn't clear CJ if

CJ

was blocked N1. That would get the same result as if CJ never targeted anyone. I don't think that indicates a fake claim; I think that more likely indicates OS didn't think through his role or implications of his (claimed) ability.

BB: You claimed that if I tracked you N2, I could clear you as not CR. Since we don't know who was recruited N2, the only way I could clear you is if you didn't target anyone. However, it sounds like you are now claiming to be a watcher, or some other informational role. You're more inconsistent than you are claiming OS to be.

The only thing I don't like about WLC's claim is the Aquaman reference, which actually leans me toward SK/independent. The rest is based on his play and some PoE.

Is one of you Aquaman? Are you JLA that turned White Lantern?

WLC sounds like he's looking for aquaman and that he

thinks

Aquaman is WL

not

cult.

From the description of my role, it felt to me like Aquaman would be CR.

Now, he

thinks

Aquaman is CR.

looking for Aquaman, as my role pm mentions him

This is highly suspect to me, and almost seems like WLC is some independent trying to find/kill Aquaman more than anything else.

[Kast]

OS: Did you ever confirm whether your the no result statements were paraphrasing a mod pm or rather than a statement that there was no result? Also, did you ask Mod if you still have your one shot ability? I strongly doubt mod would PM you N1 if you were delayed or PM you N2 if you were blocked.

[vezokpiraka]

I delayed oversoul night one. Not Toasty.

[ToastyToast]

@muffin:
1) I coast when I'm moving back to school
2) I coast when I'm a protective role (see my wiki)

[Kast]

This is real Kast.

Three thoughts:
1> Reviewed the Oversoul potential slip thing and context is key.
-Reading OS in iso and reading the posts surrounding it shows he's being consistent (doesn't necessarily mean he's telling the truth, but it's NOT a slip). OS is right that in context, the line he posted that looks odd is actually a response to Vezok asking for a claim. It easily fits with an unclaimed tracker hinting that he has not received any tracking result yet (hence not knowing whether the ability has succeeded or failed).
-BB's making a lot of noise about the "no result" and knowing if OS's action succeeded/failed. OS has stated he received no result on N1 or N2, and thus he concludes his tracking failed (presumably due to Toast's JK).

OS

correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you are claiming to have received no response regarding your ability. My brother thought you might be claiming to have received a PM saying "Your action failed".

2> I reviewed what's been claimed/flipped so far. Not much to add from that analysis except that I think I know what BB keeps hinting/soft claiming. Suffice to say, he's not on the table as a lynch candidate for me anymore (I've discussed some with my brother and he still dislikes BB, but does agree that my analysis/guess is reasonable). To be clear, my theory doesn't address the possibility of BB having been recruited, but at this point a recruit is lower priority than the CR and also lower priority than SK or mafia. Also, if my theory is correct, I have a question for BB/possibility to consider if he decides to claim/share results.

3> WLC's OMGUS vote for me (before OMGUS swapping to OS) is even more strange given his claim to cult protect Kast. For whatever reason (prolly cuz we weren't pushing him at the time) he apparently thought Kast was obv. town enough to be worth a cult protection; yet from there he's suddenly decided Kast is some flavor of scum? Also, given NPIAU had to have been recruited N1, WLC-town would know that Kast is definitely not recruit and unlikely CR.

[Oversoul]

Good point about my ability, Kast. I haven't received a pm that says my powers were stolen and I no longer have them, simply that I didn't get a result the first night or the second night and I assumed that I was roleblocked the first night until Vezok claimed.

I am curious to know what you think BB is softclaiming, but in the last 24 hours he has boiled my blood so I will wait on that. I don't even care at this point. WLC is obviously not town and the fact that no one else realizes this is disheartening. And yes, until you vote him, I don't think you realize it

Subliminal

.

inHim just requested a replace out in my other game. Curious to know if he is going to replace out in this one as well.

Hiplop, Nikanor, Vezok, CJ, where the fuck are you guys?

[Mr Subliminal]

Oversoul, you should read BNM. In a cult game, town can lynch correctly every single Day and still lose. We think WLC is mafia. He needs to die at some point...but lynching the cult recruiter is a higher priority.

If you think WLC is a cult recruiter, fine, continue to vote him. You're obv-wrong, but whatever's fair. If you think WLC is mafia, however, then you need to be voting someone else.

We still believe Candlejack needs to die in a fire.

We really wish for this to happen.

We will bake cookies if it does.

[Blackberry]

BB: You claimed that if I tracked you N2, I could clear you as not CR. Since we don't know who was recruited N2, the only way I could clear you is if you didn't target anyone. However, it sounds like you are now claiming to be a watcher, or some other informational role. You're more inconsistent than you are claiming OS to be.

I find it

odd

that you saw I'm MORE inconsistent than OS when this is only one thing that you haven't questioned me about yet (my answer makes sense, at least it does to me). And to top that off, OS has been inconsistent/nonsensical/lied twice now, has been questioned, and does not seem to have a proper answer for them.

However, given your recent post, I am *hoping* you've hit an epiphany.

Post 1725, I was trying to clear YOU as not Cult Recruiter. I was also trying to be very ambiguous about whether I went somewhere or not so that if you were indeed a tracker you'd give the correct result, whereas if you were faking you'd read my post and say 'you didn't go anywhere.'

However, my post says two key things:

You can answer with "You didn't go anywhere" or "You went somewhere." I prefer nothing beyond one of those two statements.

which kind of slips that I did go somewhere. As if I didn't go anywhere, I wouldn't say 'don't say anything else' (because there would be nothing more to say unless I went somewhere, i.e., I wanted the target left a secret).

Also, I said

it's pretty obvious I'm NOT CR and it's obvious as to why

. If I didn't go anywhere, I wouldn't have to emphasize 'it's obvious as to why'. To be 100% honest, the reason for why I thought it would clear me as CR no longer holds true because of my target's behavior at this time. Which based on your most recent post, I think you know.

Also, Kast, you say this:

possibility to consider if he decides to claim

. I'm not 100% sure what this means, but if it has to do with what I DO with my role tonight, I might already be on the same page as you. I've had an idea for a while now that

involves using my role for an unintended purpose on a particular person

. If you were thinking the same thing I was, what I said should make sense.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Well, it doesn't help discussing with Kast, as with everything I try to bring across he finds a way to twist and turn it.
I want to lynch Aquaman, and since Oversoul is Aquaman, he's the only logical choice for me at the moment. The Toast and vezok claims I have to admit are strange, but maybe cult started with 2, or something went strange with actions, but I still believe him to be CR. I feel his panic/aggression could also be because he's feeling the heat.

WLC is obviously not town and the fact that no one else realizes this is disheartening. And yes, until you vote him, I don't think you realize it

Subliminal

.

Please give me a

good

reason why I'm not town.

Hiplop, Nikanor, Vezok, CJ, where the fuck are you guys?

First good point you made in a while. Got a feeling there's some mafia there trying to see what happens with me, without burning their hands.

[Blackberry]

At this point, I'm waiting for Candle Jack to pop in and say 'YES MY NEW RING IS THIS... BLAH BLAH BLAH...' OS is lying!

I am doubting why more people don't see the Oversoul/Toasty thing.

I'm *fine* with lynching Oversoul. If he flips Cult RECRUIT, we lynch Toasty next or else I get mega angry and destroy you all. Plus it's unclear whether we have to kill all the recruits or if they die with CR anyways. Although I was really hoping the latter...

Question: Where would CJ magically get a ring from?

Q: An anti-town role?
A: Not-likely.

Q: A pro-town role?
A: Likely.

Q: What's the only explanation for why that pro-town role would lie?
A: If he was CULT-RECRUITER and the CR claims to have ROLEBLOCKED the Cultee and now he has no choice but to lie.

...

WLC

... if we DID lynch OS and he DID turn Recruitee, would you then vote for Toasty with me?

[Blackberry]

Errr, I meant to say, if he was CULT-RECRUITED**

[vezokpiraka]

Good point about my ability, Kast. I haven't received a pm that says my powers were stolen and I no longer have them, simply that I didn't get a result the first night or the second night and I assumed that I was roleblocked the first night until Vezok claimed.

I am curious to know what you think BB is softclaiming, but in the last 24 hours he has boiled my blood so I will wait on that. I don't even care at this point. WLC is obviously not town and the fact that no one else realizes this is disheartening. And yes, until you vote him, I don't think you realize it

Subliminal

.

inHim just requested a replace out in my other game. Curious to know if he is going to replace out in this one as well.

Hiplop, Nikanor, Vezok, CJ, where the fuck are you guys?

I'm here.

But I'm going to be pretty much V/LA for the next four days:D

[Blackberry]

vezok, what are your thoughts on my argument that OS is lying and that Toasty is the CR because OS was not roleblocked last nigth?

[The Book of Oa]

Votecount 3.1.5

WeyounsLastClone (6) - Andrius, tanstalas, Kast, Nikanor, Oversoul, vezokpiraka
Candle Jack (3) - Mr Subliminal, zMuffinMan, ToastyToast
Blackberry (1) - Candle Jack
ToastyToast (1) - Blackberry
Oversoul (1) - WeyounsLastClone

Not Voting (2) - inHimshallibe, hiplop


With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch and 7 to no lynch.

Deadline for the first lynch expires in (expired on 2011-09-09 19:00:00)

V/LAs:

vezokpiraka: 08/31 - 09/03

[Blackberry]

Good point about my ability, Kast. I haven't received a pm that says my powers were stolen and I no longer have them, simply that I didn't get a result the first night or the second night and I assumed that I was roleblocked the first night until Vezok claimed.

If you didn't get a 'result' then you would have KNOWN your action FAILED because you didn't get a result. And thus you wouldn't say your infamous 'i haven't gotten any indication

from my target

that the action failed or succeeded' yadda yadda. It's plain as day that OS is lying.

[Oversoul]

Good point about my ability, Kast. I haven't received a pm that says my powers were stolen and I no longer have them, simply that I didn't get a result the first night or the second night and I assumed that I was roleblocked the first night until Vezok claimed.

If you didn't get a 'result' then you would have KNOWN your action FAILED because you didn't get a result. And thus you wouldn't say your infamous 'i haven't gotten any indication

from my target

that the action failed or succeeded' yadda yadda. It's plain as day that OS is lying.

I'm giving up. I don't even care anymore. Blackberry, probably the last time I am going to even respond to you because you just piss me off and make my blood boil. I said I THOUGHT I was roleblocked when I received the pm from the mod. Vezok claimed that he delayed me and I that was why I said it. You still don't comprehend the fact that I couldn't have possibly sent Cj a new ring because of the fact that I was roleblocked the second night. I don't know why you are tunneling the living SHIT out of me and it seriously makes me want to contemplate replacing out of this game because I am outright being ignored at this point. You are acting way too antitown wanting to lynch a claimed jailkeeper and myself not to mention your backwards ass way of playing. I swear if I didn't think that WLC was more likely scum I would be on your lynch as fast as lightning.

whatever. I'm over you and this god damn game at this point.

[Blackberry]

I've seen scum replace out before when under pressure. Although part of it seems sincere, I'm not going to fall for a gambit. Go ahead, replace out then.

You have still not explained this:

You said, "I have no indication FROM MY TARGET that my action SUCCEEDED OR FAILED."

If you tracked CJ. You would not LOOK AT YOUR TARGET to see if your action SUCCEEDED OR FAILED. You do not have a valid explanation for this. If you looked at your target for crumbs of who they visited, that has no indication of whether your action succeeded or failed. The valid explanation for this is if you gave CJ a ring, then you would look from an indication from your target to see if your action SUCCEEDED OR FAILED.

[Kast]

If you didn't get a 'result' then you would have KNOWN your action FAILED because you didn't get a result. And thus you wouldn't say your infamous 'i haven't gotten any indication from my target that the action failed or succeeded' yadda yadda. It's plain as day that OS is lying.

Kast already explained this. You are reading him out of context. Oversoul said he didn't know if the result failed AFTER vezok claimed the delay action. Thus he would honestly have no way of knowing D2 if his action succeeded or failed. He made that statement D2 after Vezok (1) claimed the delay and (2) directly asked for a claim from Oversoul. Read in context please.

pedit:He didn't say he's looking at his target for day actions to indicate confirmation of his ability. Read his post in context. He is clearly referring to not receiving any indication of what his target did at night. You are reading your own biased theory into this.

[Blackberry]

I don't understand this in context thing, but if no one else is seeing what I'm seeing obviously I'm bias in someway. OS threatening to quit a DIFFERENT game is odd to me.

Here is my thoughts on WLC:

* He is 100% faking his loss of powers. I strongly believe only those with ITEMS can lose their powers, and he self-admittedly does not have an item (besides, what would be the point of HAVING items, if they're the thing that controls your powers and thus determines if you can lose your power or not...)
* WLC targets Kast last night, Tans targetted WLC last night. It makes complete sense that WLC stole both their powers.
* I strongly believe WLC is responsible for power-loss, but I also strongly believe that he is NOT the Cult Recruiter because of this.

...

Also, has WLC done anything to confirm with Kast & Tans that he indeed received the same PM? Just curious. If he received the same PM, he is the power-theif because mod hinted that the power theif 'probably maybe' knows what his target receives. If he did not receive the same PM, he could be the CR just faking it.

I'm tempted to switch to WLC, but I guarantee he is the power-thievery person and not the Cult Recruiter.

Also, reading last game, I read something about the SK could steal rings if he was the hammer of a lynch (and that hammers get the rings of the dead).

This may sound stupid... but I request Kast or Tans be the hammer so it's possible they can get their ring back? (LOL) Kast preferably. Thoughts?

[Blackberry]

In other words...

Kast unvote.

I'll vote.

Someone else vote WLC.

Kast hammer.

We all cross our fingers.