Mini 291: Clue Mafia.....Game Over!

[bigAl]

bigAl, are you saying you moved between two rooms at night? I wonder why I didn't see you come in...

No. Since I knew there was going to be someone in the room connected by the secret passage (Lounge <--> Conservatory), I figured I would try and see if anything happened, or if there is any kind of special connection between secret passage rooms. I got no messages whatsoever, so I'm assuming that there is no connection, or perhaps that I can't go through them.

[bigAl]

Um, to clairify, I got no message

regarding the secret passage

, whether or not I got a message about something else.

[MeMe]

Yesterday's claim...

If I live, I can provide quite a bit of information about that room, enough to clear me, I believe.

...is rather different that what you've supplied today. Also, you seem to contradict yourself here...

I see actions done by others in the room. Therefore if elvis had any night actions (or anyone else who bothered to come here early), I'd have seen what she did, and been able to back her up.

bigAl, are you saying you moved between two rooms at night? I wonder why I didn't see you come in...

You say you see actions -- but then question why you wouldn't have simply seen bigAl (who didn't claim an action even if he HAD been in the room, right?).

It was my assumption that you were claiming to be able to find out elvis's role or alignment at the

very least

. If I'm to believe your claim, I also have to believe that you deliberately limited your "quite a bit of information" by asking for a private audience with elvis (with belated request for Tamuz to join -- saying that "even a vanilla townie can be proven, at times..." another hint that your role doesn't do what you claim it does) -- but since you made your intention to gather information clear, if she's scum it seems plain that she'd probably have skipped her action...which you should have foreseen rather than declaring that you'd likely be able to get enough info to clear yourself.

I'm also confused by the "anyone else who bothered to come here early" phrase. What does that mean?

And this I know is nitpicky, but once suspicions are raised, I look closely...

My instinct says our kill was blocked last night.

Our

kill?

Am I missing something obvious? If so, please explain. Until you do...

vote: Mr. Flay

[BabyJesus]

not sure what it means, but I forgot we had to submit a move to a room....I don't know where my character spent the night...

[elvis_knits]

Rules say if you don't pick a room, the mod will randomly assign.

I wonder if she'd tell you which room you got picked for you.

[BabyJesus]

Rules say if you don't pick a room, the mod will randomly assign.

I wonder if she'd tell you which room you got picked for you.

I haven' been told, but I hadn't asked. I sent a pm to see.

[Mr. Flay]

Yesterday's claim...

If I live, I can provide quite a bit of information about that room, enough to clear me, I believe.

...is rather different that what you've supplied today. Also, you seem to contradict yourself here...

I see actions done by others in the room. Therefore if elvis had any night actions (or anyone else who bothered to come here early), I'd have seen what she did, and been able to back her up.

bigAl, are you saying you moved between two rooms at night? I wonder why I didn't see you come in...

You say you see actions -- but then question why you wouldn't have simply seen bigAl (who didn't claim an action even if he HAD been in the room, right?).

I thought bigAl was claiming he'd entered the Conservatory via the secret passage, and since I see actions in the room, it's possible I'd have seen him entering. Looks like a misread, now.

It was my assumption that you were claiming to be able to find out elvis's role or alignment at the

very least

. If I'm to believe your claim, I also have to believe that you deliberately limited your "quite a bit of information" by asking for a private audience with elvis (with belated request for Tamuz to join -- saying that "even a vanilla townie can be proven, at times..." another hint that your role doesn't do what you claim it does) -- but since you made your intention to gather information clear, if she's scum it seems plain that she'd probably have skipped her action...which you should have foreseen rather than declaring that you'd likely be able to get enough info to clear yourself.

Ahem. I wrote:

I'd be willing to visit one of those this evening, with

some of my (former?) accusers

, in the interest of experimentation. ... If I live, I can provide quite a bit of information about that room, enough to clear me, I believe.

and I was extending the offer to

my accusers

because I think I can alleviate their concerns.

elvis will be sufficient, we don't have to assign everyone a room.

Obviously "talk" (quotes mine) was an analogy for the fact that I feel I can prove my role/innocence by being in the room with

at least one other person

tonight.

I am assuming that "talk" is a joke. But it makes me a bit uneasy too. Flay seems to think something will be proven if we pick the same room... but I don't know what that will be, and I don't know how he thinks he knows what that will be.

More than one person in the room is fine

, but I feel like if I explain what my role does, it'll increase the chances that I'll either be nightkilled or otherwise thwarted/set-up by the scum.

(bold added for emphasis)

Where in all of that do you get the impression that I was limiting myself to just one person? Other players were skittish about scum having the ability to mass-kill a room, but for me, the more the merrier. Apparently I overestimated the possibility of power roles in this game.

As for Tamuz, it was my thought that if he was in the room with me, any actions on/by him (wasn't sure at the time whether or not I'd see targeted actions) might help clear him. It's possible that the scum avoided a nightkill entirely, since we (as a group) killed a townie Day One, they can afford to pass on one and still be in pretty good shape. Of course I don't expect a doc to come out and say they protected me, so my position does look pretty tenuous today. Admittedly I'm not on top of my game, by any means.

I'm also confused by the "anyone else who bothered to come here early" phrase. What does that mean?

...what

did

I mean? Oh, right. That should read "anyone else who came to this room at night rather than at dawn" (see daybreak post by Orbiting - we're in the Conservatory now).

And this I know is nitpicky, but once suspicions are raised, I look closely...

My instinct says our kill was blocked last night.

Our

kill?

Am I missing something obvious?

I don't think so, my plan definitely didn't work out as well as I thought it would. I would ask you, however, what sort of bizarre scum scheme this would seem to have been. I'm not saying I haven't played

poorly

, I just don't think I've been playing

scummy

.

The "

our

kill" thing is simply referring to the fact that we have one scum group (attested by the mod), and therefore one obligatory kill at night (excluding any vigilantes, etc). Thus "our" one kill per night for the game.

[bigAl]

Tamuz, if you live to nightfall, come to the Conservatory with elvis and I. Even a vanilla townie can be proven, at times...

Why did you ask Tamuz to come to your room, if he was a vanilla townie and therefore would have no night actions for you to see?

[MeMe]

Where in all of that do you get the impression that I was limiting myself to just one person?

It came from post #60...

elvis will be sufficient, we don't have to assign everyone a room. I choose the Conservatory, by the way, elvis. Unless you would feel more comfortable picking the room.

I thought you were saying that elvis is sufficient

company

in the room but, on closer examination, I see that it probably referred to room assignments altogether -- not just in the Conservatory.

So...if more people had gone to the Conservatory, it

may

have been enough to clear you with the role you're claiming. Alright.

unvote: Mr. Flay

[BabyJesus]

hear from the mod, it seems I ended up in the library...

I think there is benefit to everyone outing where they were.

[Mr. Flay]

I agree; I'd like to hear where people went.

bigAl, like I said to MeMe above, it was sort of a long-shot that either a) I'd see something he did, making him a liar, or b) something would happen to him that I'd see, making him possibly verified (depending on what the action was).

[elvis_knits]

For some reason, I am buying everything Flay is selling.

[Tamuz]

Well I can see no harm in saying that I went to the billiards room. My decision was random.

I chose not to go into the conservatory because I felt Flay had said one would be enough, and me being vanilla would be no help to Flay and would just get in the way.

However, I am interested by this statement"

Of course I don't expect a doc to come out and say they protected me, so my position does look pretty tenuous today.

That just looks wierd to me, not only does it seem doc fishy, but it also makes me wonder why Flay seems so certain, or at least willing to believe that a doctor protected him. I could easily see him trying to draw a protection, if not fish slightly.

My unease towards BJ is also furthered because of his lack of a choice. This could either be a WIFOM red herring to throw the town off if any such thing happens... or something I'm not so sure of, but I still don't like the lack of care he showed even if it is not obviously scummy.

As to the kops issue, I say let him talk before I discuss his position.
Just Fuldu to check in now?

[Fuldu]

I don't know about Flay's explanation. He seemed awfully convinced that he was going to be able to prove himself, but his role doesn't seem to justify that level of confidence.

[Bamboomancer]

overall, I'd rather not say where I went.

[BabyJesus]

overall, I'd rather not say where I went.

vote Bamboomancer

[elvis_knits]

Of course I don't expect a doc to come out and say they protected me, so my position does look pretty tenuous today.

Wait a minute...

Flay... if a doc protected you last night, shouldn't you have seen them in the conservatory??

You should KNOW if you were protected last night, or not, I think.

[Fuldu]

Of course I don't expect a doc to come out and say they protected me, so my position does look pretty tenuous today.

Wait a minute...

Flay... if a doc protected you last night, shouldn't you have seen them in the conservatory??

You should KNOW if you were protected last night, or not, I think.

That assumes that a player has to be in the same room as their target in order to use their role, which seems a pretty strong burden early in the game.

[elvis_knits]

You don't think the doc would have to travel to the person to protect?

[Fuldu]

Unfortunately from the way it's worded I can't tell if anything is done *to* people in the room

I'm taking the "from the way it's worded" bit to mean that he can't tell whether he can tell if anything is done to people in the room, but whether he doesn't know or knows he can't, I would presume Flay can only see actions initiated in the room he's in.

[bigAl]

I'm taking the "from the way it's worded" bit to mean that he can't tell whether he can tell if anything is done to people in the room, but whether he doesn't know or knows he can't, I would presume Flay can only see actions initiated in the room he's in.

That would make sense, realistically speaking. A mafia could potentially shot someone from through the door way without getting seen, but it would be obvious if someone left the room.

[elvis_knits]

Damn I thought I had caught something

[Mr. Flay]

Yeah, it's been confirmed to me that I only see things done by people in the room to me (which also wasn't clear yesterday), but I would see an attempted kill, for example.

Vote: bamboomancer

- I can't really fathom what hiding the room you were in would accomplish. In fact, there's possibly a breaking strategy of us all being in the same room tonight. I would have rather had confirmation that other people knew my role does what it says, but it may be worth a shot. Failing that, bamboo is my best guess.

[Mr. Flay]

Errr, done in the room WITH me, whoever they're done too (I can't figure out how a doc would protect someone in another room, either, but...)

[Fuldu]

Errr, done in the room WITH me, whoever they're done too (I can't figure out how a doc would protect someone in another room, either, but...)

Don't think too hard on making the roles seem realistic. Frankly, the standard doctor role doesn't make much sense in any game.

Also, unless you're relying on something in addition to your role as you've described it, I'd already thought of the all-in-one-room strategy and it doesn't work. Assuming scum can kill from a different room, they

say

they went to the same room as everyone else, make their kill, and then say you didn't see them in the room because they didn't have an action.