Open 319: Jungle Republic - Day 5: Calamity *GAME OVER*

[Shadowmod]

...prodding CMPunk...

Thor665 (2/6) - DeityKabuto , blindfaeth , havingfitz blindfaeth (2/6) - Thor665 , TheFool CMPunk (4/6) - Sky , BBmolla , DonJosh , blindfaeth DeityKabuto (1/6) - CMPunk Not Voting (1/10): whispersilk With 10 Players alive it requires 6 Votes to lynch / 5 to nolynch. Deadline will be reached on Monday August 29th 2011, 6:00 p.m. Forum Time [UTC-6].

(expired on 2011-08-29 18:00:00)

till Day 2 Deadline

[blindfaeth]

Thor, I have no idea what question you're referring to, neither do I care lol... I'm not intentionally saying two opposite things and I certainly am not hoping people don't notice because I have absolutely nothing to hide and I'm not concerned about covering my tracks. Are you suspicious of anyone else? If so, start tunneling them because you're wrong about me and I'm tiring of your instigations.

[Thor665]

@blindfaeth - how about you answer #2 and then I'll explain my sig to you; to restate my questions;

1. Nowhere in my sig does it suggest that it's keeping track of scum who do that.

2. If you DID believe that it was only a list about scum who did that...why does it matter that I didn't call out havingfitz on it?

@Blindfaeth - here's the core of my questions yet again.

You called me out for not calling out havingfitz.
When I pointed out I had, you called me out for calling him scum before his flip.
PLEASE - point out where I'm wrong in all this, I would love to see it.

[TheFool]

This guy goes up a notch on my scum list every post...

:(

[DeityKabuto]

Still v/LA but the comments about my ~"Thor is better than this" are ridiculous. I was obviously trying to pad Thor's signature metric and after he made his comment to the effect that only one per person per game would be counted, I was/am done with it. Ie, it was a joke.

This made me chuckle

[CMPunk]

Im here, sorry been dying with flu since weekend. catch up soon.

[DonJosh]

I will be V/LA until the 28th due to camp. I will accept replacement at the mod's discretion.

As for my thoughts, I stand by my previous statement: CMPunk today, TheFool tomorrow.

[Thor665]

@DonJosh - I could actually reasonably get behind that as it works with my case - but why are you fine with not lynching Faeth?

[DonJosh]

In my other game, the mod found a temporary replacement for me. Maybe you could do that, Shadow? Just until I get back.

As for faeth, he's been real scummy the last few pages, and since kondi never posted, it's really all we have. Lynching faeth would be fine, too.

[Shadowmod]

After 61 hours of inactivity BBmolla receives his first prod.

In my other game, the mod found a temporary replacement for me. Maybe you could do that, Shadow? Just until I get back.

If you want a temporal replacement I would like you to bring some one yourself. If I need to replace you I'll just give the slot to whoever is willing to take it. If you really cannot even manage to find an internet café to come by once in a while I will just do that, given that you will return only one day before deadline.

[blindfaeth]

@blindfaeth - how about you answer #2 and then I'll explain my sig to you; to restate my questions;

1. Nowhere in my sig does it suggest that it's keeping track of scum who do that.

2. If you DID believe that it was only a list about scum who did that...why does it matter that I didn't call out havingfitz on it?

@Blindfaeth - here's the core of my questions yet again.

You called me out for not calling out havingfitz.
When I pointed out I had, you called me out for calling him scum before his flip.
PLEASE - point out where I'm wrong in all this, I would love to see it.

You aren't wrong. btw those aren't questions those are statements. But just like you thought I was scum regardless of whether Ray came back bad, I think you are, too.

In my other game, the mod found a temporary replacement for me. Maybe you could do that, Shadow? Just until I get back.

As for faeth, he's been real scummy the last few pages, and since kondi never posted, it's really all we have. Lynching faeth would be fine, too.

If you people seriously decide to lynch me today, just please, lynch Thor tomorrow. Because seriously,

how many times are you going to let him be wrong before you're willing to accept the fact he's probably deceiving you?

Anyway if you are not ready to lynch Thor I suggest we lynch CMPunk.

[whispersilk]

Sorry for my absence. I've been reading the game everyday, just haven't had the time to make a serious post till now.

On the wagon:

Ray Montano

(7/7) -

Thor665

,

The Tick

,

DeityKabuto

,

TheFool

,

FightingShadow

,

DeityKabuto

,

TheFool

,

CMPunk

,

BBmolla

,

blindfaeth

,

DonJosh

,

blindfaeth

,

DeityKabuto

Off the wagon:

sky
the tick (town)
havingfitz

I'm more inclined to believe that at least one anti-town player was off the wagon, than all 5 were on it. I'd also find it very hard to believe that all 3 scum were on it. I can see both wolves jumping on, but not all 3 scum. It seems too risky to me, and I think some of them would want to distance themselves from a mislynch.

Roles remaining:

5 scum
5 town

Players remaining:

blindfaeth
TheFool
Sky
DeityKabuto
BBmolla
CMPunk
havingfitz (fightingshadow)
whispersilk
DonJosh
Thor665

• Sky - scum

Total contribution to the game = 20 posts.
Voting pattern: CMPunk - DK - CMPunk - CMPunk

I didn't like Sky much when I posted my previous reads, and I like him even less now. His 19 posts are almost enough to make him appear to be contributing, but when isolated, they are actually of very little substance, and he is making no real effort to scum hunt. Arguing with DK for 5 posts about which of them likes/dislikes answering useless questions, is just that, useless. Is tunnelled on CMPunk. Why? I have no clue. Read his ISO. He's voted for her 3 times without giving a clear reason of his own for doing so (there was some talk of her initial vote on DK, but it appears fluffy to me), but is quick to agree with other peoples reasons for voting her after the wagon picked up speed, while still not providing his own reasons. Would like to hear why he thinks CMPunk is scum. In his own words of course.

To be clear: I do not see tunnelling as a scum tell. I myself tunnelled DK for nearly 3 full pages in another game, and we were both town. I find tunnelling and persistent voting of one person, while giving no real reasons, scummy. Especially when you start "concurring" with other peoples reasons for voting the same person.

The Punk/Thor combo could be a possibility, but due to the lack of posts from CMPunk, it's hard to really gauge. CMPunk, why do you find Thor town?

Lack of posts? She has two more posts than you, and imo has created more useful discussion than you. Your thoughts on that?

All this, coupled with the fact he made certain everyone knew he wasn't going to vote for Ray early on, and the fact he's made sure to highlight after-the-fact that he wasn't on the wagon, seems contrived. Everything about Sky is wish-washy, unclear, and has given me a scum read for a second time.

• BBmolla - leaning scum

Appears townie, but...

On Ray:

To me, the Ray vote seems like people just wanting to get day 1 over with as opposed to people actually thinking that person is scum. I wouldn't be surprised to find a couple mafia/werewolves on the wagon.

Ray raises a few questions, but atm and after his last few posts I'm getting town on him. Ray's play is odd, namely the no fear of a bandwagon forming on him, but I think it's town sided considering he would know as a town person that him being lynched would not be the end of the game.

Not really. I'm not saying he's a helpful townmember, but I think he's a town member. I don't think a policy lynch on him is what's needed if that's what you're asking.

Two days later, you placed yourself 4th on his wagon (prime scum real estate), apparently after ISO'ing him. I don't like this at all.

On CMPunk:

I don't like this post at all.

It only reinforces my view on him.

What he's saying makes some sense. The vote on DK doesn't.

"You're voting Thor cause he was wrong about Ray, so I'm going to vote you because you're wrong about Thor!"

CM is buddying Thor hardcore. I'm not liking it at all.

I don't like the way you misrepresented her post. I can understand quite clearly why she voted for DK, and there is no reason why you shouldn't either. This isn't to say that CM is not scum, just that I don't like the way you twisted the reasoning behind her vote for DK and made it look scummy.

I'd say that CM and DonJosh are probably the scum on there. Possibly TheFool and Thor too.

Off the wagon I'd say the scum is probably whisper, and possibly a Sky/Fitz.

I've never seen a more redundant statement. You just named all 3 people off the wagon. Who else could it be, lol?

Will post more reads as soon as I can. I'm also wary of making one giant wall post

[whispersilk]

• DonJosh - neutral (leaning scum)

My read on DJ is still neutral, but with a scum lean. Sometimes I think he might be scum, then he'll make a post that somewhat mirrors my own thoughts or reads, and I'll lean town. For that reason, I'm keeping him neutral (leaning scum) in my mind until he does or says something scummy, or starts exhibiting more towny behaviour.

I liked his reads in this post, especially his read on TheFool, Ray and Sky (because I had the same thoughts):

TheFool : Scum
Nothing but fluff and scummy wagon-hopping.

CMPunk: Scum
See above

DK : Town
His reactions are pro-town.

Thor : Town
It may be WIFOM, but I don't think scum would be so outgoing and enthusiastic. He is, however, tunneling Ray.

Ray : Null
You, sir, are rather hard to read

Sky : Null
Some posts are town, some are scum-ish

Everyone else is null.

I don't think much of redundant and obvious statements such as this:

So Ray flipped town... where does this put Thor?

Uhm, yeah, I noticed that Ray flipped town, but thanks for pointing out the obvious for those folks that might have missed the epic lynch post. /thumbs up

(kinda seems you were trying to feign surprise, imo)

and this:

There are scum on this wagon. No doubt about it.

There

has

to have been at least 2 scum on it from your perspective. I don't see the point in pointing out something that is so obvious.

Also, I don't like behaviour:

1) You went the entire day voting TheFool (with good reason).
2) Then briefly hopped to CMPunk (giving no reason whatsoever).
3) Then 19 hours later you suddenly, and without reason, jump on the Ray wagon, AGAIN giving no reason of your own for the vote, you just quoted a huge post of Thor's regarding Ray and voted for him, like that somehow excuses you from giving a reason of your own. Then believing you had taken Ray to L-1, you seemed pretty eager for DK to hammer him, imo.

Should DK hammer or should we wait until he responds to his prod?

OBVIOUSLY someone at L-1 is not hammered until they have had a chance to defend one last time and/or claim. Even if they are AWOL from the game.

[BBmolla]

• BBmolla - leaning scum

Appears townie, but...

On Ray:

To me, the Ray vote seems like people just wanting to get day 1 over with as opposed to people actually thinking that person is scum. I wouldn't be surprised to find a couple mafia/werewolves on the wagon.

Ray raises a few questions, but atm and after his last few posts I'm getting town on him. Ray's play is odd, namely the no fear of a bandwagon forming on him, but I think it's town sided considering he would know as a town person that him being lynched would not be the end of the game.

Not really. I'm not saying he's a helpful townmember, but I think he's a town member. I don't think a policy lynch on him is what's needed if that's what you're asking.

Two days later, you placed yourself 4th on his wagon (prime scum real estate), apparently after ISO'ing him. I don't like this at all.

I explained this about three times already. I thought DK was a newbie, and that is what explained his behavior. Once I noticed his 2000 posts or whatever I realized his play was really funky and it completely changed my view on him.

On CMPunk:

I don't like this post at all.

It only reinforces my view on him.

What he's saying makes some sense. The vote on DK doesn't.

"You're voting Thor cause he was wrong about Ray, so I'm going to vote you because you're wrong about Thor!"

CM is buddying Thor hardcore. I'm not liking it at all.

I don't like the way you misrepresented her post. I can understand quite clearly why she voted for DK, and there is no reason why you shouldn't either. This isn't to say that CM is not scum, just that I don't like the way you twisted the reasoning behind her vote for DK and made it look scummy.

I'd say that CM and DonJosh are probably the scum on there. Possibly TheFool and Thor too.

Off the wagon I'd say the scum is probably whisper, and possibly a Sky/Fitz.

I've never seen a more redundant statement. You just named all 3 people off the wagon. Who else could it be, lol?

Will post more reads as soon as I can. I'm also wary of making one giant wall post

5/10 are scu, I named 7/10. For one party I'd say your scum, for the other I'd say it's either Sky or Fitz, but probably not both.

And in regards to CM, you can hate that post all you want, but it's how I read it. Also, if you'll read my post of reads, CM was scummiest on my list, so that post of hers only reinforced my read.

I like your hunting though, reads very town to me.

[whispersilk]

I explained this about three times already. I thought DK was a newbie, and that is what explained his behavior. Once I noticed his 2000 posts or whatever I realized his play was really funky and it completely changed my view on him.

My post had absolutely nothing to do with DK, or your suspicions of him. Those were all quotes of yours where you are talking about Ray, and how you believed he was town,

despite

all the votes on him, and

despite

how much other people found him suspicious. You thought Ray was town, and then out of nowhere, you voted for him after ISO'ing him.

Okay, pretty sure Ray is scum. His entire defense is discrediting Thor's legit defense instead of trying to prove it wrong in any way.

Discrediting someone is a valid defence, especially when that someone's attack is wishy washy at best, and downright scummy at worst.

Surely there must have been someone else on your scum radar to vote for, instead of jumping on the wagon of someone, who up until then, you had stated you believed to be town? That is my point, and it has nothing to do with DK.

And in regards to CM, you can hate that post all you want, but it's how I read it. Also, if you'll read my post of reads, CM was scummiest on my list, so that post of hers only reinforced my read.

lol, thanks for pointing this out:

your scummiest read on day 1

. So then, why didn't you vote for

her

instead of jumping on the wagon of "towny Ray"?

[BBmolla]

I explained this about three times already. I thought DK was a newbie, and that is what explained his behavior. Once I noticed his 2000 posts or whatever I realized his play was really funky and it completely changed my view on him.

My post had absolutely nothing to do with DK, or your suspicions of him. Those were all quotes of yours where you are talking about Ray, and how you believed he was town,

despite

all the votes on him, and

despite

how much other people found him suspicious. You thought Ray was town, and then out of nowhere, you voted for him after ISO'ing him.

My mistake.
Ray seemed misunderstood town at first, and then his anti town behavior became scummy. His arguements with Thor started to make him look scummy, I even pointed it out.

Okay, pretty sure Ray is scum. His entire defense is discrediting Thor's legit defense instead of trying to prove it wrong in any way.

Discrediting someone is a valid defence, especially when that someone's attack is wishy washy at best, and downright scummy at worst.

I disagree. Saying why an arguement is wrong is a legit defense. Thor said "Ray you've done no scumhunting. Would you like to quote some of the scumhunting and rub my face in it for laughs?" Ray said "I have no interest in doing such thing." That's not a good defense. At all.

And in regards to CM, you can hate that post all you want, but it's how I read it. Also, if you'll read my post of reads, CM was scummiest on my list, so that post of hers only reinforced my read.

lol, thanks for pointing this out:

your scummiest read on day 1

. So then, why didn't you vote for

her

instead of jumping on the wagon of "towny Ray"?

[/quote]
It was Day 2.

[BBmolla]

EBWOP: [quote=http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p3311105]Day 2[/quote]

[Sky]

It's true, I have been minimal at best lately but that's for two reasons:
A) CMPunk hasn't responded
B) School has started up again

The thing that irks me about whispers is she's calling me out for being wishy washy. If you think I'm scum, vote me dammit and put your money where your mouth is. Otherwise you're the one being wishy washy.

Sure, I'm tunneling CMPunk, but until she responds I will do nothing to change my vote.

[TheFool]

Oh hey, goodposting from whispersilk! One question:

There has to have been at least 2 scum on it from your perspective.

Do you have a different perspective?

Sure, I'm tunneling CMPunk, but until she responds I will do nothing to change my vote.

Who else do you think is scum, though?

[whispersilk]

Oh hey, goodposting from whispersilk! One question:

There has to have been at least 2 scum on it from your perspective.

Do you have a different perspective?

Yes, in total there were 4 people off the wagon. Me, Sky, havingfitz and The Tick. We now know The Tick was town, and I know I'm town, so that leaves at most 2 possible scum off the wagon. So I know there was at least 3 scum on the wagon, possibly more, depending on Sky and havingfitz.

From DonJosh's perspective, me, Sky and havingfitz are all potential scum, meaning there is at minimum, 2 scum on the wagon from his perspective.

But for me, I know for a fact that there are at least 3 scum on there.

Make sense?

[whispersilk]

It's true, I have been minimal at best lately but that's for two reasons:
A) CMPunk hasn't responded
B) School has started up again

The thing that irks me about whispers is she's calling me out for being wishy washy. If you think I'm scum, vote me dammit and put your money where your mouth is. Otherwise you're the one being wishy washy.

Sure, I'm tunneling CMPunk, but until she responds I will do nothing to change my vote.

I wasn't criticising your lack of posts. I commented on the complete lack of substance to the posts you do have, and the fact I don't like the way you are tunnelling and voting for CMPunk without giving good reason.

As for me being wishy washy: I've placed one serious vote the entire game, on someone I called out for being scummy, and gave

actual

reasons for my vote. I don't see that as wishy washy. I'm in the process of giving my reads on everyone. So far, it's only been 3 people because I'm busy with rl.

Don't worry tho, I'll vote my most suspicious player once I've finished ISO'ing everyone

[whispersilk]

My mistake.
Ray seemed misunderstood town at first, and then his anti town behavior became scummy. His arguements with Thor started to make him look scummy, I even pointed it out.

ha! I didn't know if you thought I was stupid, or if you got completely confused as to who you were talking about in those quotes.

I disagree. Saying why an arguement is wrong is a legit defense. Thor said "Ray you've done no scumhunting. Would you like to quote some of the scumhunting and rub my face in it for laughs?" Ray said "I have no interest in doing such thing." That's not a good defense. At all.

My problem with the Ray fiasco, is that Thor, and everyone else became so tunnelled on him, specifically for his lack of scumhunting, but they completely ignored the other players who were guilty of exactly that same thing,

and

other scummy behaviour too. Sure, Ray could have done more to defend himself better, but tbh, from my POV, he was doing an OK job already, and it's the reason I didn't vote for him.

It was Day 2.

I thought you were saying she was your scummiest read on day 1. Thanks for clearing that up, and for replying so quickly. I like the way you've defended yourself.

[TheFool]

Yes, in total there were 4 people off the wagon. Me, Sky, havingfitz and The Tick. We now know The Tick was town, and I know I'm town, so that leaves at most 2 possible scum off the wagon. So I know there was at least 3 scum on the wagon, possibly more, depending on Sky and havingfitz.

From DonJosh's perspective, me, Sky and havingfitz are all potential scum, meaning there is at minimum, 2 scum on the wagon from his perspective.

But for me, I know for a fact that there are at least 3 scum on there.

Make sense?

Ah, yes, it does. Thank you for the clarification, I'd managed to read that pretty wrong.

[Thor665]

@Whisper - you actually sold me reasonably well on Skyscum (though, frankly, any town player has a 50/50 to peg scum right now even by just going einey-meeny-miney-moe), but...why no vote? I actually think Sky had a reasonable rebuttal there and you didn't even respond to it.

[whispersilk]

I responded to Sky right here http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p3355612

Is there something I missed?