Mass Effect Mafia (Draw)

[Rhinox]

D1.

Actually I was referring to today and your arguments for lynching toog. But I went through your iso and didn't really see the evidence your talking about in your D1 posts either, and later in the game you were calling toog pretty much confirmed.

Read yesterday. It wasn't that he was SURE Hiraki was the last scum. The way you're talking about him, he knows the two of you are confirmed, thinks jason is town, therefore it's either me or Hiraki... yet he spent all day yesterday saying how town I was and trying to convince me not to vote jason. When it came time to vote Hiraki, he was like "I think Hiraki is the lynch for today" not "HIRAKI = LAST SCUMMMMZ".

I don't see anywhere yesterday toog was saying how to you were "all day yesterday", reading through toog's iso. He did say these 2 things about you:

My biggest gut is Reck at the moment, mostly for suspicious and mostly trollish behavior.
<snip>
Reck targeting people who were the cause of lynches the day before seems like proper play for a Neighbor since he is most likely targeting town from a townie perspective. If he were scum, he would target the more dangerous powers that weren't in the mafia that looked even remotely pro-town I think. Also, after returning to my QT with Reck, something was said that suddenly

gives me the thought Reck "might" be town.

He asked me, "Why are you so convinced people think you're town? They don't." This isn't something a scum says to another player whom he intends to kill that night (which I still maintain was going to happen).

So he had a gut suspicion of you, but you said something to him that made him think you *might* be town. *MIGHT*. That is not "saying how town you are all day".

The thing is that you WEREN'T confirmed town... we had just had a lynch on a grey player, and even PV was suspected two scumteams of two in the QT last night, so there's no way you were confirmed town. From your perspective, yes, you know your alignment and you know PV is town. From my alignment, only PV was hardcore confirmed town. Because that's how a townie should think. After Nero flipped, THEN you were confirmed town to anyone who isn't YOU.

Right... I guess I kept getting the timeline messed up in my head. Regardless, there is no indication toog slipped that he *knew* anyone was confirmed town before night started. This is what he had to say about me and nero yesterday:

I think Nero's visit

probably

clears Rhinox. If Rhinox was scum, he probably would have sent the night kill,

assuming

only one scum left. If Nero is scum, he knows that targeting the only player without a night action is the safest play.

Gut

tells me that Nero is also town, only because if he were scum, he could have claimed any number of tracks as the last player to claim his action, so why clear someone as town with no result off of Rhinox?

Note the use of the keywords I bolded there. More importantly, why would scum want to identify cleared or "probably/possibly" cleared townies? And toog never said anything about PV being confirmed until today. In fact, it was you who first said that PV was likely town due to being blocked, and toog wasn't convinced and asked you if you were sure there was only 1 scum left. Then he was only using that same logic "assuming 1 scum left" to say I was *probably* town yesterday.

Reck, the accusations you are making are not backed up in the facts of what was actually said.

[xRECKONERx]

If you can't see that Toogeloo is scum, then I don't know what to tell you.

He said I might be town... wow, I didn't even REALIZE that. Then he diverts the wagon onto Hiraki and turns around to go back on his "might be town" read on me? Jesus, he was planning this all along.

Regardless, there is no indication toog slipped that he *knew* anyone was confirmed town before night started.

No, but TODAY he said he knew YESTERDAY you were confirmed town. Then when I called him out on it, he retconned. Yesterday he was saying he was willing to consider you town

for now

or something to that effect; today he's like RHINOX WAS CONFIRMED TOWN OF COURSE.

Rhinox, you want to know why he did that? Because he has nothing left to go on.
He said I 'might' be town and that you are 'probably' town because if he makes firm commitments on things, he's fucked himself too early. By staying wishy-washy on me, he now has the leeway to attack me and when I flip town, tomorrow he'll go "Wow... is it really possible I was THAT wrong about jason?" and vote him. If he had hardcore called me and jason town, he would've been backed into a corner by having to go after TWO people he defended hardcore TWO DAYS IN A ROW.

The bottom line is this, Rhinox: you're sitting here defending Toog without presenting why I'm suddenly scum. I expected Hiraki to flip scum; I talked in the QT to PV trying to figure out what it meant. Neither of us picked up on the "last of the Thorian" tell, so unless you think PV & I were feigning ignorance to THAT extent in our QT, it's a town tell. Furthermore, Toog's posts and actions today show a much more premeditated line of thought than anyone else. He had ALREADY considered that Nero's flip confirmed you as town by the time he posted the first post today, less than 30 minutes after the kill was posted. Look at your first post: you're still trying to figure stuff out and process everything. He already had thought about that overnight because he already had an attack on me today planned out.

If you guys can't see that Toog's thoughts aren't coming from a powerless-townie's perspective, I'm sorry. I've tried to point them out to you and you're not listening. The worst thing is that if I'm wrong on Toogeloo, it means I was right about jason, but there's no way to have the best of both worlds since I'm having to put myself on the line so hard. I'd go crazy in an endgame where I'm dead and Toog & jason are both alive. I'd prefer to be there in endgame with jason if Toog isn't scum because I KNOW I can bring him down. If I get lynched today, then it's the trolltastic dance tomorrow between Toog & jason and they're both so scummy I don't honestly think town will make the right decision.

If Toog isn't scum and gets lynched today, I'll obviously have a huge target on my head, but I can and will do everything in my power to show my towniness and take down jason. If Toog is scum, well, then I guess it's a moot point. (PS, if he's town, his attack today is inexplicably terrible and his actions are seriously anti-town as fuck and I feel no remorse for reading his opportunistic attack on me as obvscum).

[jasonT1981]

Having major ISP issues right now. V/LA until I can get sorted

[Toogeloo]

I'd like you to explain, in you infinite wisdom, Reck, why, as scum, I would build a case on my buddy Ghost on Day 1, and then bus him within moments of Day 2 starting, without him having a single other vote in the game, and without using the acronym WIFOM in your case. Explain the scum thought process in this scenario.

[xRECKONERx]

WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM

bus bus bus bus

townpoints townpoints townpoints

And clearly it's working because HEY LOOK WHERE IT GOT YOU. Excellent bus, but the fact you're using this as a towntell proves it's a bus.

I'll go into it more in detail if that doesn't satisfy Rhinox/PV.

[Rhinox]

The bottom line is this, Rhinox: you're sitting here defending Toog without presenting why I'm suddenly scum.

Well the reason is that up until today, I didn't have a strong afinity for thinking you were scum. I think the way you're arguing to lynch toog today is coming from a scum motivation and I think my posts should reflect that.

Rhinox, you want to know why he did that? Because he has nothing left to go on.
He said I 'might' be town and that you are 'probably' town because if he makes firm commitments on things, he's fucked himself too early.

See I just can't believe that to be true because up until today you were calling toog confirmed town and that didn't stop you from reversing that today.

If anything, I feel like you were the one backed into a corner. Your only suspect left was jason, so even if you got him lynched today, you'd have nothing left to fall back on tomorrow when its just you, toog, and me or PV. But if you somehow got toog lynched today you could be all OMG I WAS RIGHT ABOUT JASON ALL ALONG and expect no one to vote you over jason.

Because considering all the comments you've been making today about how you've known all game jason was scum, if you were town THATS where your vote would be. Thats the reason why I'm not voting toog today and why I'm thinking I'm going to be voting you.

[xRECKONERx]

My only suspect left was Jason yet I'm attacking Toog?

This town is fucking stupid. Lynch Toog tomorrow.

Vote: Reck

Move it along. Get Toog tomorrow. No questions.

[PeregrineV]

@Reck- Rhinox has a good point. If you think Jason is scum, why are you voting Toog?

And I would really like to hear what Jason has to say since Rhinox is confirmed to me. Toog and Reck are town reads through play, but Jason is no where near those levels.

p-edit: Reck, why would you do that?

[xRECKONERx]

Because nobody is fucking listening to me and i'm tired of wasting my breath. I THOUGHT jason was scum UNTIL Toog spent all day trying to convince me Jason was town, then attacked me like he did today.

Toog agreed to a 1v1 so let's do it. If jason is the last scum then gg i told you D1 and Toog played terribly.

[Toogeloo]

Reck is really laying the AtE on thick these last few posts.

Can we please be done with this game, I am going V/LA next week and would prefer we still weren't sitting around bickering.

[xRECKONERx]

Nope.

No "wahhh Reck is laying on the AtE"

You agreed to a 1v1 with me, and we're fucking doing this shit. Someone hammer me. I'm going to flip town, then you lynch the shit out of Toogeloo tomorrow.

[jasonT1981]

Guys my internet is seriously playing up. Sorry, It is really going up and down badly. apparently the ISP has had a DNS failure and quite a lot of users are experiencing problems with their service. I hope to catch up ASAP but if not I may need to replace out.

[jasonT1981]

torn between Reck and Toog, don't like how Reck is shouting about Toog and AtE when he is doing exactly the same thing.

[xRECKONERx]

Then hammer me, wtf

[jasonT1981]

what part of torn between you both do you not understand?

[Toogeloo]

Getting this stupid conspiracy theory forming in my head that Hiraki was an odd night Serial Killer, which if true means scum win regardless.

Some one just end this game so we can determine if scum wins or not. I will not be playing Mafia from the 24th to the 29th, so let's finish this. If Reck really is town, I need enough time to vote myself when the new day goes up.

[xRECKONERx]

jason, if you're scum, you have me & Toog offering a 1v1 for ourselves right here, right now that guarantees you a win.

If you're town, then you will get to lynch BOTH me & Toog, and one of us HAS to be scum.

What're you waiting for?

[jasonT1981]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

VOTE:Toogeloo

[xRECKONERx]

K fine, or we can do it this way.

Unvote; Vote: Toogeloo

It doesn't matter because one of us is going to die today, and the other one tomorrow.

[Toogeloo]

Wow... Jason, that is terrible.

Jason did ?????

Jason did nothing last night, my ability was one shot and I used it on N1 with the Nintendo kill.

Word of warning, mislynch today, and tomorrow is Mislynch and Lose for town.

I am confident in Reck flipping scum and am prepared to vote him when I return from my V/LA tomorrow night or Sunday.

I only popped on to check up on my modded games.

In fact your entire ISO is about lynching Reck.




Reck, you might have just been right about Jason. He mislynches me today, and you are an easy mislynch tomorrow if he is scum due to all the fighting back and forth today between us. His train of thought to vote you for the last 2 weeks to all of a sudden vote me today is just bad. Oh well, we made our beds Reck. Let's sleep in em I guess.

[Toogeloo]

Fuck it...

I'm willing to drink Reck's tea.

Unvote;
Vote: Jason

I also release you from the 1v1 agreement if I get lynched today Reck. If you get lynched, I will still adhere to my part of the agreement, but if I get lynched, I want you to lynch Jason. His vote on me was even worse than yours was.

[xRECKONERx]

THE ONLY WAY I'M LYNCHING JASON TODAY IS IF YOU AGREE TO TAKE THE DIVE TOMORROW IF JASON ISN'T SCUM.

I'm not doing this dance. We're still in a 1v1... if you wanna trade it for a 1v1 with jason, be my guest.

[jasonT1981]

with 1 scum left, what reason would I have as scum, to hold off lynching Reck? I could have easily hammered him and took it to night looking to lynch you tomorrow after your 1vs1 knowing both would flip town and I would win as scum.

[xRECKONERx]

Which is why at this point, me or Toog are getting lynched. If he wants to pass it off as you vs him, fine. But I'm not letting him go NVM LET'S LYNCH JASON then turn around tomorrow and go LOL NVM LYNCH RECK

[jasonT1981]

Toog, you also leave out the posts where I have been saying I was torn between the two of you, so stop trying to make out my vote came out of nowhere.